VN Ren'Py Radiant [v0.6.3] [RK Studios]

[TigerWolfe]

Ahem...[puts on glasses] This has been debunked.
We're really doing this shit again? Give him your first born for all i care. But the excuses are not really plausible. And no, patronage does not work like that. I'm sure the sponsors of the Sistine Chapel would not have just sat by and accepted that its artist do nothing because "that's how patronage works".

1 not a patron
2 and if the sistine chapel guys felt put off, they'd have been within their rights to stop being patrons

Patronage very much is here's money so you can survive, I hope you make art I like.

It's definitely not here's money, gib finished product. That's a commission.

Notice how commission and patronage aren't the same word? There's a reason for that!

Now a patron can commission a product but that's a different set up, and is expressly not what you're agreeing to when using patreon.

You are wrong, that's OK lots of loud folks on this forum frequently are.

 

[faramata]

1 not a patron
2 and if the sistine chapel guys felt put off, they'd have been within their rights to stop being patrons

Patronage very much is here's money so you can survive, I hope you make art I like.

It's definitely not here's money, gib finished product. That's a commission.

Notice how commission and patronage aren't the same word? There's a reason for that!

Now a patron can commission a product but that's a different set up, and is expressly not what you're agreeing to when using patreon.

You are wrong, that's OK lots of loud folks on this forum frequently are.

And they say we're trolls... THIS is trolling of the highest order. Somehow taking money and coming up with BS periodically is perfectly OK. That pretty much says a lot about anyone defending this... "Buh...buh... it's not the same thing, them'z two different words". You are pledging to deliver something when you take that money, or else it would be a fucking donation. In fact they specifically have tiers which specify what they're gonna deliver. Every artist on patreon out there specifies what they're gonna deliver in exchange for the money received. Imagine if every other Patreon artist out there decided to hide behind this excuse. So if anyone is wrong, it's you. But I guess crooks will defend crooks.

 

[virtuvoid]

It comes down to Quid pro quo. The Dev certainly is getting his Quid and he truly is a pro at it, but how is it that the quo part is ignored.

I strongly disagree with the "ignored" part.
The monthly patron/subscriber fee was the norm in 2017. Most AVNs on this site updated monthly as well.
In 2018, there was a notable change with most AVNs now updating every 2-3 months. Now in 2023, it's 6 months at least.
The 3rd party middle-men sites (Patreon et al.) were well aware that the delivery of fewer "goods" (updates) for the same price as before would encounter significant resistance so "quid pro quo" was not ignored but radically transformed.
So a "consolation prize" setup has ensued : regular monthly updates have been replaced by irregular updates--Radiant yearly at most--plus wallpapers and Discord access for payees.
Some people may actually prefer a Discord-heavy set-up to the prior update-heavy one. I'm in total agreement that each individual is free to choose whatever payer/pirate path.

For those of us with a foot in both camps (payer/pirate), the best way to go seems to be to try to arrange things as near as possible to the 2017 model. But jump in AFTER an update drops, offer up a few coins in appreciation, then jump out by abstaining from recurring fees. Rinse and repeat. If this method were to be followed by many supporters, the health of many Devs would also be very much improved.

 

[Dukez]

"sick" lol.. reminds me of another dev and the various excuses they would have. Real or not, at some point when updates take too long it's no longer a valid excuse. I dunno how a "alpha" version of this update released and the final one still isn't out yet.

 

[TigerWolfe]

And they say we're trolls... THIS is trolling of the highest order. Somehow taking money and coming up with BS periodically is perfectly OK. That pretty much says a lot about anyone defending this... "Buh...buh... it's not the same thing, them'z two different words". You are pledging to deliver something when you take that money, or else it would be a fucking donation. In fact they specifically have tiers which specify what they're gonna deliver. Every artist on patreon out there specifies what they're gonna deliver in exchange for the money received. Imagine if every other Patreon artist out there decided to hide behind this excuse. So if anyone is wrong, it's you. But I guess crooks will defend crooks.

So now you're libeling me... What crime have I committed, just out of curiosity so I can understand the state of your victimhood better?

And out of curiosity and due diligence I did check their tiers and guess what, you're still wrong. And maybe can't fucking read. Not a single tier promises patrons a lick of shit other than access to a discord, titles in that discord, access to whatever is available of the game (note not a finished fucking product), voting in polls, and the highest tiers get wallpapers.

Would I back this patreon, nope I don't have income I can throw away that frivolously. But the people who are backing, eh it's their money, they have to make that decision.

I have definitely left patreons I have subscribed to in the past running while the creator got their shit sorted, life happens abruptly and suddenly and can rip the fucking rug out from under you. I've experienced it.
It all comes down to how much you wanna see that art in the world and whether that desire makes it worth to keep supporting.

Patrons are taking the roll of the publisher basically, they foot the bills during the dev cycle so the devs don't starve and the game gets made. Then at the end they get a shiny game with some input from themself if all works out.

But just like in the corporate games world sometimes shit happens and all this money was spent on a game and nothing ever sees the light of day.

Being a patron let's you peer behind the curtain, but it doesn't guarantee there'll be a nice shiny bauble at the end.

Knowledge of this and a lick of common sense is why all my personal patreons are like weekly podcasts. Much lower barrier for success, I don't have the stomach for the risk of supporting a dev studio through game design, so wait til they're done if I'm throwin in money.

I also don't base jump or free solo... But there are plenty of people who are cool with those risks and shitting on them ad nauseum because I'm a chicken shit is kinda rude and stupid.

 

[dolfe67]

It never was an alpha, just a con to appease the crowd if they wouldn't yet achieve their promised release date. It's actually only the first part of chapter 5, the second part is in the making.

Unless they name it chapter 6 when they release it in august

 

[faramata]

So now you're libeling me... What crime have I committed, just out of curiosity so I can understand the state of your victimhood better?

Complains about victimhood, says I'm playing the victim. I'm not a victim per se since I am usually the (very fucking) suspicious type. And unfortunately, I'm rarely disappointed in that regard.

 

[faramata]

Rinse and repeat. If this method were to be followed by many supporters, the health of many Devs would also be very much improved.

Be a scrooge, save your developer's life?

 

[Pope Alexander VI]

The Pope would have just condemned Michelangelo to hell; then again, most of the Popes of that era were so skeevy and corrupt, they'd be joining him if that's where he ended up.

O hell yea

 

[virtuvoid]

Be a scrooge, save your developer's life?

Ah, no. A "scrooge" would equate to a no-pay pirate. Such people could ruin a Dev's health.
The irony is that pirates are the biggest net winners, among players, with the present irregular update model. More games !

If more people would do as I do and only pay per update (one of several areas which are actually Dev revenue but not counted as such) the House--all AVN revenue-seekers--would certainly take notice. That is what would improve a Dev's "health".

 

[TigerWolfe]

Complains about victimhood, says I'm playing the victim. I'm not a victim per se since I am usually the (very fucking) suspicious type. And unfortunately, I'm rarely disappointed in that regard.

I mean you're the one who claimed I was a criminal I was just meeting your hyperbole in kind.

 

[Dogorti]

It never was an alpha, just a con to appease the crowd if they wouldn't yet achieve their promised release date. It's actually only the first part of chapter 5, the second part is in the making.

Unless they name it chapter 6 when they release it in august

I really think these devs are genuinely slow, I don't think it's a scam they're just slow. If they had a more friendly schedule, I'm sure they would have double the number of patrons that they have rigth now. being as slow as they are now does not benefit them at all and scamming 6 thousand bucks that they have to divide in two must be the most mediocre scam of all time. It's just hard for me to believe

 

[anomkarsa]

We're talking about the same dev here (Sir Dammed) that led on and bullshitted the supporters of his other game (Polarity) for around 2 years, promising that an update was coming, releasing dev logs every now and then ensuring everyone that it was going to be the biggest update yet and that it would be worth the wait and then just stopped posting all together in 2021 with nary a peep since.

This was still going on whilst he was working on this game with Alorth. I can't speak on Alorth's game as i've never played it and I have no idea what the dev cycle has been like for it. SirDammed however routinely promised that after a Radiant update released he would definitely drop his update for Polarity, that never happened and he never once paused payments on his separate patreon or anything like that. Hell his separate patreon is still up to this day, still with some supporters and a small amount of money coming in and he hasn't posted on it coming up to two years now. He's clearly given up on Polarity so why hasn't he closed the patreon or maybe refunded those supporters? Why is he still taking the money of the 69 people still supporting him on his personal patreon?

I think questioning the practices of these devs, and criticising Sir Dammed in particular is absolutely fair. Also, i'm sorry but that screenshot 'explanation' about why they can't pause the payments is embarrassing. If this and Polarity are his only income and he routinely delays and fails to deliver promised work then the money issues are his and his alone, it's not his supporters fault that he can't get shit done or that he's struggling because he's "sick". He'll quite happily take his supporters money while delivering nothing in return but balks at the thought of giving his supporters a break by pausing their payments or maybe even refunding them their hard earned money and his colleague comes in with the 'woe is me' story about how he might have to get a job in the real world if he doesn't keep on collecting your donations. Nah he's wrong for that.

Support him if you want, it's your money but don't make excuses for someone that clearly doesn't give a shit about you.

Apologies for the rant

 

[Son of Durin]

We're talking about the same dev here (Sir Dammed) that led on and bullshitted the supporters of his other game (Polarity) for around 2 years, promising that an update was coming, releasing dev logs every now and then ensuring everyone that it was going to be the biggest update yet and that it would be worth the wait and then just stopped posting all together in 2021 with nary a peep since.

This was still going on whilst he was working on this game with Alorth. I can't speak on Alorth's game as i've never played it and I have no idea what the dev cycle has been like for it. SirDammed however routinely promised that after a Radiant update released he would definitely drop his update for Polarity, that never happened and he never once paused payments on his separate patreon or anything like that. Hell his separate patreon is still up to this day, still with some supporters and a small amount of money coming in and he hasn't posted on it coming up to two years now. He's clearly given up on Polarity so why hasn't he closed the patreon or maybe refunded those supporters? Why is he still taking the money of the 69 people still supporting him on his personal patreon?

I think questioning the practices of these devs, and criticising Sir Dammed in particular is absolutely fair. Also, i'm sorry but that screenshot 'explanation' about why they can't pause the payments is embarrassing. If this and Polarity are his only income and he routinely delays and fails to deliver promised work then the money issues are his and his alone, it's not his supporters fault that he can't get shit done or that he's struggling because he's "sick". He'll quite happily take his supporters money while delivering nothing in return but balks at the thought of giving his supporters a break by pausing their payments or maybe even refunding them their hard earned money and his colleague comes in with the 'woe is me' story about how he might have to get a job in the real world if he doesn't keep on collecting your donations. Nah he's wrong for that.

Support him if you want, it's your money but don't make excuses for someone that clearly doesn't give a shit about you.

Apologies for the rant

 

[Matt2012021]

Haven't check this thread in a while see it's still the same the dev keeps doing same shit but what's more shocking there are still people who defend him well at least the thread is entertaining

 

[joryh]

Haven't check this thread in a while see it's still the same the dev keeps doing same shit but what's more shocking there are still people who defend him well at least the thread is entertaining

Nah. The shocking thing is all the whinebabies that live here ranting and crying about it. Ignore it and move one, but nope. He lives rent free in their heads. Don't like his update speed? Ignore it til it updates, or just ignore it period. But: snivel whine, cry, snuffle, snuffle, snork. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

That's the vast majority of this thread. Yet, somehow, their entitled sniveling and flaming is never deleted for being offtopic or trolling. Funny that.

 

[Solaris33]

The cycle of the Radiant thread:

1. Update drops!
2. Exhaust all conversations about the story and the future of the game
3. Whine about how long updates take
4. Laugh at any status updates that justify delays
5. Whine about the whiners
6. Repeats steps 3-5 until 1 happens again

Did I miss anything?

 

[Son of Durin]

The cycle of the Radiant thread:

1. Update drops!
2. Exhaust all conversations about the story and the future of the game
3. Whine about how long updates take
4. Laugh at any status updates that justify delays
5. Whine about the whiners
6. Repeats steps 3-5 until 1 happens again

Did I miss anything?

Number three should have the word "justify" as I've typed it (with the parentheses) and, although I don't generally see them because I have most of them on "ignore" you forgot the step "white knights jump in to defend the lazy ass Dev team and its lousy excuses".

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

Am I ever glad that I have better things to do than REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at everything that happens in this thread.

 

[dolfe67]

Am I ever glad that I have better things to do than REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE at everything that happens in this thread.

Yeah like making this post