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adanu

Member
Mar 28, 2020
214
314
The root cause of "such behaviour" is that the Patreon system is a scam.
Normally, I would agree with this, but Patreon itself tells it's users that patronage is not a guarantee that they will get a product out of it. Kickstarter is the same way. It's a matter of doing your research and seeing what they've done. If you are paying a creator on Patreon and they haven't done anything for close to a year, that's a bad judgment call on your end. Patreon does not regulate stupidity, neither does Kickstarter.

For the record, I'm one of those people who took a chance on the Mandate on kickstarter years ago when they talked up a big game about making a space warfare centric RPG. I was robbed, basically, but I was the one that took the chance. Kickstarter is not to blame for my judgment call.
 

Smarmint

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,220
4,850
Can't argue with what you're saying. Well, it's the same with welfare or charities. They both get abused. But still when you back the wrong horse, like with Radiant, it stings. And it stings even worse since it is a really cool game. If anything, this and Lost at Birth are some of the best games I've encountered so far. But it feels too much like "you pays your money, you takes you chances".
True. I've backed dozens of AVNs on Patreon from time to time, but if the dev doesn't keep updating, I stop and move to another game. There are many deserving devs that don't make much per month worth supporting.


Normally, I would agree with this, but Patreon itself tells it's users that patronage is not a guarantee that they will get a product out of it. Kickstarter is the same way. It's a matter of doing your research and seeing what they've done. If you are paying a creator on Patreon and they haven't done anything for close to a year, that's a bad judgment call on your end. Patreon does not regulate stupidity, neither does Kickstarter.
Exactly. If anything, Patreon benefits from lack of releases. More time to collect. They make money per donation, regardless if anything is released. It is a business like any other, and getting very rich off of all the content. What are their expenses? A website? Probably hosted on AWS for a few thousands a month. They probably make that in less than a minute.

I have no problem with Patreon. It is like Valve with Steam. If you can create a popular distribution system where others make all the content and you can skim off the top, you are golden.

It's the slacking devs that are the problem, but nothing can be done about that. It is just human nature. If we all got paid whether we showed up at work or not, as long as we worked at least 1 day every 3 months, how many of us would go to work every day?

Anyway, I would say the chances of Radiant actually getting completed are vanishingly small. Even smaller now that Alorth has put his money and reputation on the line to try to get Sir Damned to actually do something. It is ironic that it is the script and dialog that is holding it up, which is a lot quicker than rendering. It's not like the game is fine literature. Knowing the story, it practically writes itself.
 

virtuvoid

Member
Donor
Apr 21, 2017
283
445
Normally, I would agree with this, but Patreon itself tells it's users that patronage is not a guarantee that they will get a product out of it. Kickstarter is the same way. It's a matter of doing your research and seeing what they've done. If you are paying a creator on Patreon and they haven't done anything for close to a year, that's a bad judgment call on your end. Patreon does not regulate stupidity, neither does Kickstarter.

For the record, I'm one of those people who took a chance on the Mandate on kickstarter years ago when they talked up a big game about making a space warfare centric RPG. I was robbed, basically, but I was the one that took the chance. Kickstarter is not to blame for my judgment call.
Watch the words, listen to the actions.
There are many different types of content-creators on Patreon. Setting AVN Devs aside, ALL other creators provide content each and every month (sometimes mini-sized). So, patronage shields Patreon from angry calls from patrons about not getting anything in a given month (no refunds but still supporters may unpatron). Also note that there are many podcasts on YouTube where a Patreon-affiliated creator will never refer to patrons but rather as supporters/subscribers.
AVN Devs seem to inhabit a separate Patreon space. Only they dare to go months on end giving no direct content to their supporters (mainly Discord and the rare progress report). If ALL content-creators should try this "neat" trick, it would be the end of Patreon.

An AVN Dev, such as SirD, puts Patreon in a difficult spot business-wise. The patronage system can be seen as a type of honour-system. When someone such as SirD is full of alibis about the shortage of game updates, but totally fails to do the honourable thing by pausing supporters' recurring charges, he obviously comes across to anyone paying attention as an unworthy content-creator.
The obvious fix is for Patreon to rein in these unworthy Devs. I like the idea of mini monthly game updates. The positions of both Patreon and supporters would remain unchanged. Monthly CANON content, not wallpapers, would align Devs with all other content-creators.
But something has to give because too many Devs have presently gone rogue.
 

Smarmint

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,220
4,850
The obvious fix is for Patreon to rein in these unworthy Devs. I like the idea of mini monthly game updates. The positions of both Patreon and supporters would remain unchanged. Monthly CANON content, not wallpapers, would align Devs with all other content-creators.
But something has to give because too many Devs have presently gone rogue.
You keep saying the same thing, but why would Patreon do that? The longer the games take, the more money they get. It goes against their financial motive to kick out devs or penalize them for not producing monthly content.

You are not being honest when you say that Patreon is not a patronage system. Did you notice the name of the company? That is exactly what it is. Like it or not. Any supporter is free to unsubscribe at any time if they don't think they are getting their money's worth. You can have your own wishes about what another company does, but when it goes against their financial interest, it will never happen. If they tried it, the stockholders would fire the board and hire a new one that puts company profits first.

Patreon doesn't care about adult games, their development, or whether releases happen monthly or not at all. They would probably prefer if it there were no adult content at all, just artists, musicians, yoga practitioners, and podcasters. Notice nothing on their homepage or advertising materials mentions adult games. But the money is too good, for now, for them to leave it on the table.

Bashing on Patreon is counter-productive. As I mentioned, without Patreon or similar sites as a patronage system for AVN developers, most quality adult games, including Radiant, would not exist.
 
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jamdan

Forum Fanatic
Sep 28, 2018
4,383
23,588
Watch the words, listen to the actions.
There are many different types of content-creators on Patreon. Setting AVN Devs aside, ALL other creators provide content each and every month (sometimes mini-sized). So, patronage shields Patreon from angry calls from patrons about not getting anything in a given month (no refunds but still supporters may unpatron). Also note that there are many podcasts on YouTube where a Patreon-affiliated creator will never refer to patrons but rather as supporters/subscribers.
AVN Devs seem to inhabit a separate Patreon space. Only they dare to go months on end giving no direct content to their supporters (mainly Discord and the rare progress report). If ALL content-creators should try this "neat" trick, it would be the end of Patreon.

An AVN Dev, such as SirD, puts Patreon in a difficult spot business-wise. The patronage system can be seen as a type of honour-system. When someone such as SirD is full of alibis about the shortage of game updates, but totally fails to do the honourable thing by pausing supporters' recurring charges, he obviously comes across to anyone paying attention as an unworthy content-creator.
The obvious fix is for Patreon to rein in these unworthy Devs. I like the idea of mini monthly game updates. The positions of both Patreon and supporters would remain unchanged. Monthly CANON content, not wallpapers, would align Devs with all other content-creators.
But something has to give because too many Devs have presently gone rogue.
That doesn't have anything to do with Patreon themselves. They have no way to verify whether or not people work on their content or not. They'd ban adult content before they'd try to verify whether or not AC creators actually work or not.


Others who make adult content (besides AVN devs) are on Patreon too, like Rushzilla (a twitch streamer who makes pinups/models) and a bunch of other 2D/pinup creators. As well as many of people who make SFW VN's. But they tend to not have the same issues as AVN devs.

The issues AVN devs tend to have, I think, boils down to 2 main things.

1 - They aren't organized, professional, and generally don't know what they're doing. They decide to make a game (likely to satisfy their own fetishes), start a patreon to share their work and then make it up as they go along.


2 - Related to that, they don't plan their games out, much if at all. This alone would solve 90% of their issues. It was mentioned previously that "Patreon rewards the dev model of good first couple of updates, and then for the dev to drag it out as long as possible".

That isn't why 90% of games begin to drag. They begin to drag because the scope/scale of the games becomes too large to update in a reasonable timeframe. This even happens with the big developers, like Philly and Pinkcake.

Adding too many LI's. Adding too many routes. Both of which have little to no purpose. Not being efficient. Not knowing where the story is going. They end up in a hole or getting writers block or burning out. Or maybe all the above.

If they planned and organized their stuff from the start. Many would avoid those traps before they wondered into them, and some wouldn't decide to make a game in the first place. As the old saying goes "Easier said than done".

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Are there bad "scammers"? Dammed may well be one of them. Sure, but most developers simply don't know what they're doing. If you want to make real money, get your game complete and put in on Steam. You'll make more money than milking a couple thousand dollars from Patreon each month. A total that the large majority of devs will never get to.

It's on the supporters/fans to not go "Ooohhh boobies" and throw their money at developers until they've shown themselves to be serious about their work and have clear plans and ideas on how they're going to complete their games.
 

Badjourasmix

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 22, 2017
7,092
15,988
Thx for the context, in the end he never paused billings as many devs do when having problems to work.
He clearly wanted to be fed by his supporters.
Maybe it's because someone in my family has passed away recently, but I can understand getting depressed when someone close to you dies, and I can understand him not wanting to talk about it. But when people are giving you money every month for you to work on the game you kind of have to give them an explanation on why there is no content coming out. While people had no idea about what was going on with the game he was tweeting constantly about FFXVI.
They seem like they want to release final update for 0.5 before the end of the year so let's see if they are able to do that and if they are able to release 0.6 in march.
 

Dogorti

Engaged Member
Jan 23, 2021
2,759
10,720
Maybe it's because someone in my family has passed away recently, but I can understand getting depressed when someone close to you dies, and I can understand him not wanting to talk about it. But when people are giving you money every month for you to work on the game you kind of have to give them an explanation on why there is no content coming out. While people had no idea about what was going on with the game he was tweeting constantly about FFXVI.
They seem like they want to release final update for 0.5 before the end of the year so let's see if they are able to do that and if they are able to release 0.6 in march.
This. I don't have a problem with him being depressed but you can be transparent about it, people aren't going to make fun of you for it (not everyone at least) the fact that you don't say anything and only post stupid things on your Twitter makes people get suspicious or angrier, and I understand that he uses his Twitter to post silly stuff, to keep his head busy. But his way of handling things has not been the best. Everything could be very different if he was a guy who knew how to communicate with his audience. But I guess that's how things are
 

virtuvoid

Member
Donor
Apr 21, 2017
283
445
Maybe it's because someone in my family has passed away recently, but I can understand getting depressed when someone close to you dies, and I can understand him not wanting to talk about it. But when people are giving you money every month for you to work on the game you kind of have to give them an explanation on why there is no content coming out. While people had no idea about what was going on with the game he was tweeting constantly about FFXVI.
They seem like they want to release final update for 0.5 before the end of the year so let's see if they are able to do that and if they are able to release 0.6 in march.
Ain't buying yet more alibis.
The key is : follow the money. If SirD had ever paused supporter charges, then OK. Explain that IRL has been giving him a shit-kicking, and he needs some time to get his balance back. No need to go into details.
Has he ever done that ? For Polarity ? For Radiant ? Nope, never.
 

Tatsuya2022

Member
Apr 5, 2023
411
670
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yeah that pile of bull@&%$ always always is like that ... with those piece of xxxxxx developers


number 1 he wait till the last minute they can to say even a lie or * reason * to their fans ... if at all


number 2 hey smart ass dev no got the memo? irl stuff always going to happen one way or other , tmr will rain tmr will gf break out, tmr somebody will pass out , tmr something will happen ... but he goes on that song for like 4 years?

but YEAAH SUCH NICE EXCUSES for another whole year to have a 2 bit update ? or if even so.

number 3 at this point people still believing this piece of xxx ? lier ? milker ?

FAIR thing should be he pause all patreon support till he pull a update out of his bonny xxx

nope he could be honest and stay playing his ffxxxx , HE ONLY writing that long long is because of respect to his fans? nope is because money ....

and as somebody said is a pitiful thing , because a completed game on steam can earn more money than as it is now ...but 2 bit devs dont realize of that ...
 
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walker188

Active Member
Apr 30, 2017
735
2,217
New post on discord:
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I literally don't believe this. Not in an angry way, I simply don't believe any of that is happening. The man has been tweeting about playing video games for months. And it takes about twenty keyboard strokes and five clicks to pause Patreon payments. If he really needed a break from work, it would have been simple to post a message, stop payments and take his time away.

But he didn't do any of that. He instead chose not to work on the game, but keep taking money for it. It's not theft per se, but god damn is it unethical. He's thirty four years old (according to what he posted), he understands how the adult world works. Even ruthless bosses would let you take a few months off if you had major deaths to deal with, but almost none of them would PAY you during those months.

I suppose I got what I wanted, it was a savory bit of apology/promises to chew on. As for the future, my personal bet is you never see another update for this game.
 

tortorus

Member
Aug 29, 2018
152
176
i can beleve this... This goldfish was really dead (some time ago the fasle report was not too far from reallity)... I don t beleve him for one second. To much serious in this tweet for final fantasy, to said it was in depressive stat, where nothing really matter... i go that way sometime ago.
M dev you know work is ususally good for depression, take a objective and keep it until the goal is good for up feelings, all the therapist will tell you this... You just runaway and make excuses, and even your team is starting to get fed up of you... You can try some damage control the bad is already done. Just go to work Mr Damned lazy bone...
 
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