Real sex vs. Porn sex

[215303j]

Well said Adabelitoo!

You seem to forget that most devs are amateurs, devs are not on the same level as Stephen King or JK Rowling when it comes to story writing, because if they were they would be writing books and making millions instead.

There are plenty of writers who can and do write good stories but are not "making millions". The same with painters, musicians, sculptors and (yes) game devs. The vast majority of artists are either amateurs or are just making enough to live. Getting to the top in anything also simply requires a lot of luck. It is an unfair and incorrect argument to say that game devs cannot be good writers. There are plenty of games here which are certainly at the level of a Hollywood script.

 

[SeventhVixen]

I guess it depends on what you want. I don't think more realism makes everything better automatically. A lot of the things you mention would just annoy me. I don't play adult games to play the riveting story of a guy with erectile dysfunction and his trials and tribulations.

That being said I do tend to like games more that at least make an effort to not be totally ridiculous. I think some realism is fine, up to a point. I personally cringe at the dick sizes in some games. Nothing wrong with the MC having a big dick, but some games go so far that even porn stars wouldn't be able to compare.

And hey, I'm all for dirty anal, but some people would be put off by that, so most devs won't put that into their game. There's a reason 90% of games are so painfully vanilla and even minor kinks are put behind warnings and options to skip them.

What he said. I don't mind some realistic sex outtakes now and then if serves story purpose, but generally the sex parts of a game I like them to be porn-awesome, no reality-boring xD

But that doesn't mean a girl shouldn't complain about pain or not liking something, that's part of the fetish too.

 

[おい！]

Well said Adabelitoo!


There are plenty of writers who can and do write good stories but are not "making millions". The same with painters, musicians, sculptors and (yes) game devs. The vast majority of artists are either amateurs or are just making enough to live. Getting to the top in anything also simply requires a lot of luck. It is an unfair and incorrect argument to say that game devs cannot be good writers. There are plenty of games here which are certainly at the level of a Hollywood script.

Who said that devs cannot be cannot be good writers?

Which sometimes annoys the hell out of me because it's lazy, amateurish and I assume often written by a teenage boy in his moms attic.

 

[Callowayaway]

I'm just not clear on how a guy having ED is supposed to make the writing any better. Fair enough if a girl being inexperienced tickles your corruption fetish, or a guy constantly losing his erection enhances the femdom aspects, but I don't see how realism makes the writing better in and of itself, much less how it's going to contribute to the narrative as a whole.

 

[Adabelitoo]

Porn games aren't just a super inefficient way to get easy porn, they're also a super inefficient way to tell a story. People play porn games because they're interactive. If they wanted a story then they'd read a vn or a doujin, just like if they wanted porn they'd watch pornhub.

For me it's the opposite, these games are a super efficient way to tell a story and that's why people play them, not so much for how interactive these things are. Imo I wouldn't play these games for how interactive they are when the only interaction I have is choosing one of two predetermined options which may or may not have an impact in the rest of the game, choosing something every 5-10 minutes not because I felt like there was something to choose but because the dev decided that. As long as those games aren't kinetic novel and have a minimun amount of interaction (enough to hook players), the selling point will be the story. I mean, these games are VN too, as you mentioned.

 

[obibobi]

Why does a thread like this exist. They are 2 different things.

Real sex involves you holding and feeling someone, porn and porn games are VISUAL so people and characters are positioned for what looks best to those watching.

 

[Callowayaway]

I mean, these games are VN too, as you mentioned.

If you want to talk about visual novels then talk about visual novels. If you want to talk about porn movies then talk about porn movies. I'm really not interested in arguing over semantics or bickering over when a visual novel becomes a game or vice versa.

 

[Adabelitoo]

If you want to talk about visual novels then talk about visual novels. If you want to talk about porn movies then talk about porn movies. I'm really not interested in arguing over semantics or bickering over when a visual novel becomes a game or vice versa.

These are porn games, developed in a Visual Novel format. Visual novels are games, games can be Visual Novels...

I don't see what's so hard to understand.

 

[Callowayaway]

I don't see what's so hard to understand.

I understand it perfectly, I'm just refusing to play that game.

 

[Adabelitoo]

I understand it perfectly, I'm just refusing to play that game.

I don't think you did, or at least I don't see the relationship with you answers.

 

[Callowayaway]

I don't think you did, or at least I don't see the relationship with you answers.

Behold, A GAME! It has neither significant interaction nor narrative. It is effectively no different from a porn movie. I guess we were both wrong.

 

[Adabelitoo]

Behold, A GAME! It has neither significant interaction nor narrative. It is effectively no different from a porn movie. I guess we were both wrong.

Sure, a game can have both of those things, or none of those things like the one you mention. I still don't see the point of that. We aren't talking about a game in particular, we are talking about games in general.

Again, my original post and the one you first quoted was about how a developer tries to tell a story in these games and why those who only ask for full saves to have a quick fap are irrelevant. Imo, the selling point of these games are the story, not the level of interaction, and that's why people use RenPy for their games, because it allow us to exploit the "story" factor at its best while keeping the minimun necessary amount of interactions to keep us hooked. So, if the selling point of these games are the story, a more realistic and/or detailed story could make a better narrative and make a better game overall, at least if the developer is good enough at writing, or maybe it won't, who knows? But the thing is (and what the post you quoted was about) it doesn't matter what those quick fapper think about that story, if they like it or not for being more realistic, because they aren't playing the game to begin with.

 

[215303j]

Who said that devs cannot be cannot be good writers?

You made a blanket statement about devs in general by stating that if they were any good they'd be as good as "Stephen King or JK Rowling" and "make millions".
I specifically pointed out several things which I consider poor storytelling.

But, even if a dev/writer does everything I'm complaining about in the OP, he CAN still be a good writer, depending on the rest of the narrative. Some stories don't need realism.

I'm just not clear on how a guy having ED is supposed to make the writing any better.

I posted an example already: in Intimate Relations, the father and daughter finally agree that it would be a good thing to "do it" together. Both are anxiously waiting until that special moment, as is the player. Everything is carefully prepared up to the rosebuds strewn on the hotel bed. But the guy is so nervous that he can't do it. Huge letdown, both for the characters and the player.

Why do I think this is a good scene?
- It increases the character depth of both, by showing their weak sides
- It shows that the devs care about the characters
- It can be plot device to delay the act in itself (which I think is a bit doubtful but it can make sense in a narrative)
- It is innovative
- It is realistic

The extreme opposite:
- Hi dad, I'm horny and I don't like my boyfriend anymore, let's fuck!
- OK honey!
15 minutes and 4 orgasms later, the story is effectively finished. Nothing left to do. Completely boring!

I'm not saying that erectile dysfunction in it self is hot, or a fetish, except maybe in femdom or cuckold scenario's, as you mentioned. But as above example shows, in my opinion,

Personally all I care about is character depth and an interesting narrative.

Real sex involves you holding and feeling someone, porn and porn games are VISUAL so people and characters are positioned for what looks best to those watching.

Except that in a porn game / VN, a lot of the eroticism comes from the story and text, not only the visuals.
You can describe how the characters feel, what they feel, what kind of emotions they feel.
Still not real sex, let alone real love, but it comes closer than watching porn, in my opinion.

IMO threads like this exist, because people want something done for nothing. They do not want to help create what they want and or lack the skills involved to create a game. So they start a thread in the hope devs will do it for them for free.

Come on! Don't tell me you have never criticized any game here...
On one side, I'm hoping that threads like these somehow inspire devs to improve their games, which is also in their interest.
On the other side, I'm interested to hear how other people experience this matter.

 

[khumak]

I want realism for some aspects of the game but not others. I want the characters to have realistic seeming personalities and I want them to react in a realistic manner. I want actions to have consequences. I want reasonably plausible body types. It's fine if everyone is well endowed or good looking but basketball sized tits and dicks the size of baseball bats are a turn off (I can tolerate it in a comic book/cartoon style story but not a more realistic art style).

I don't ever want to see anything involving a toilet. Sex related stuff in a game should be a turn on so unless it's important to the story I don't want to see stuff about ED, people not enjoying it, etc. I do want sex scenes to take things to unrealistic fantasy type extremes in a game. Most girls IRL are not going to agree to an MFF threesome, girls in an adult game should be much more open to it. You're probably not going to "convince" your lesbian friend IRL that she wants some dick, but in a game yes I want that option.

 

[215303j]

I want realism for some aspects of the game but not others.

Agreed.

I do want sex scenes to take things to unrealistic fantasy type extremes in a game.

Yes, but I am talking more about the technicalities of sex, not so much about the relations between the characters, as I think that is a slightly different topic. I generally agree with you though, as long as it fits in the context of the story.

I think that your arguments are also touching upon the "adult game vs porn game" discussion, where adult games are solid VN's with explicit sex scenes and porn games are more focussed on presenting various sex scenes and less on the story. It's a scale and any position on that scale is fine as long as the game does not move that much from one extreme to the other.

 

[215303j]

plug: this is not a debating club mate.
You even quoted your own post....
If I somehow wrongly interpreted you, then maybe you should have written it more clearly.
Anyway I am done with this kind of arguing.

 

[おい！]

plug: this is not a debating club mate.
You even quoted your own post....
If I somehow wrongly interpreted you, then maybe you should have written it more clearly.
Anyway I am done with this kind of arguing.

I wrote it in English, how much more clearly does it need to be? After all you are the one who changed my actual sentence, to try to suit your argument. You do not need to interpret anything, all you need to do is not try to twist my sentence. That is why I quoted my sentence, because you chose not to when making a response to me.

 

[Volta]

Porn sex with some realism, not loads, just enough to draw you, no need for realistic recovery periods for guys, high levels of discomfort for girls doing anal, having the lights off or being embarrassed, anal "going wrong" for example, we don't need all of that. Adult games are an entertainment medium so to a degree they need to skip to the good bits, sure give us some realism but i think i speak for a lot of people here when i say that i get enough of full realism in my real life and would prefer some escapism in my games.

 

[khumak]

Yes, but I am talking more about the technicalities of sex, not so much about the relations between the characters, as I think that is a slightly different topic. I generally agree with you though, as long as it fits in the context of the story.

I think that your arguments are also touching upon the "adult game vs porn game" discussion, where adult games are solid VN's with explicit sex scenes and porn games are more focussed on presenting various sex scenes and less on the story. It's a scale and any position on that scale is fine as long as the game does not move that much from one extreme to the other.

I think we mostly agree. For me the key thing is whether it enhances the story or not. Having realistic personalities enhances the story for me. It's fine if there are some stereotypes but I find a complex, well thought out character MUCH more satisfying than a really shallow or one sided character. If the character is not developed enough for me to feel some sort of emotional attachment, then I'm not going to get as much out of the story. I'm not really going to care what happens to the character. So more realistic personalities and dialog make a big difference and really add to the story.

There could be some exceptions if you're doing a parody or something where the characters are obviously supposed to fit some stereotype but unless you're good at comedy I would probably rather have a more realistic story. Married with Children is an example of a TV show that I thought did a great job making fun of it's characters so the fact that they were all walking stereotypes really worked. The show made it quite obvious that it was making fun of itself so it worked.

Adding things that people don't really want to think about is counterproductive IMO unless it's something that enhances the story in some way. In a sex scene, anything that makes it less arousing is bad IMO unless it eventually leads to something more arousing (like a new kink of some sort).

As an example, you mentioned the idea of some women feeling some pain or needing some lube for certain scenes and sure that's realistic, but unless you're addressing that in a way that makes the scene better I don't see what the benefit is for adding it. If you have a scene where the woman is feeling pain and they just power through it without fixing it then you've made it clear she's not enjoying it without fixing the problem. If you take a similar scene and start off with the woman feeling pain and use that to have the guy ramp up the foreplay or discover some new kink she has then that could lead to a more satisfying outcome. Maybe they discover she likes a bit of pain and this leads them to some S&M or bondage. Maybe the dev has a thing for oral and wants an excuse for MC to really go to town on her to get her warmed up before they fuck.

You could do the same thing if you wanted a guy to have an issue with ED. If he just can't get it up and you don't fix it then that's not a very satisfying scene. If he can't get it up and the woman uses that to find out what's bothering him or what sort of kink really gets him off and fixes the problem then that adds to the story.