Recommendations for a game engine, please?

Cworx

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May 23, 2022
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I've half-convinced myself to build a game that I've been thinking about for a while now (on and off for a couple of years). Right now, I'm looking at game engines and I could use the advice of those who have gone before me. I'm not overly concerned with what languages or environments will be required as long as it's not something obscenely obscure or niche. I'm more concerned with the limitations of each engine with regards to how I may have to alter game play.

This game will target primarily the following kinks: BDSM, breeding/pregnancy, incest, rape, though depending on game actions potentially anything and everything else could show up. Consider that tag list a warning before reading further.

So the premise of the game is this (apologies for the wall of text!):

You're a mage focused on ascending to a higher order of power. To accomplish this, you'll need to achieve immortality (so that you have enough time to do all of the work), you'll need to gain enough power in enough different types of magic in order to build your base magical knowledge and potency in order to make the leap/transformation. In this particular game (I have other games in mind with the same base premise but different twists), you've chosen to perfect your physical form through a magically enhanced breeding program thanks to an artifact you've acquired. Make a daughter/son depending on PC sex (hereon the 'scion'). Modify the scion's genetics through magic/alchemy/supernatural gifts/whatever, prepare their mind to grow their magical power, et cetera. Once they reach physical and magical peak, use the scion to make the next scion and then use the artifact to absorb from the first scion the enhanced life/vitality/mojo that aligns with your own, which will kill them (or possibly leave them a mindbroken drone servant, I haven't decided). Rinse and repeat. Game mechanics will revolve around using the skills you have to locate and acquire other skills, magical abilities and artifacts, managing (conditioning/educating/training) your scion to maximize the benefit when you drain them while trying to avoid letting them escape, becoming a threat, or such. Each generation makes your offspring more powerful (he/she too has magic, which is why this works), more willful, more difficult to control. As cycles progress, scions are more likely to escape, sabotage (either accidentally or intentionally) the end of cycle, setting events overwhelm the PC or disrupt the cycle. The artifact only works once every XX years, so it serves as a cycle time limit.

The setting will start out in the dark ages of an Earth-like fantasy setting and advance over time, introducing new challenges (a major religious or social institution coming after you, a war threatens your mage sanctuary or hampers your ability to obtain a macguffin, your home gets invaded by some supernatural creature, someone you've wronged in a previous cycle becomes a major enemy, your scion develops a magical talent you don't have and you're playing catch up). Each 'cycle' will typically see the magician gaining a new perk of some sort in the form of a new magical ability, a new artifact, or a new skill. I'm strongly considering letting the player choose one perk at the beginning (essentially flavoring what kind of mage they are - alchemist, necromancer, seer, summoner, whatnot), with the rest being either randomized or letting the player choose from a random sample to pursue this cycle. The trick being that every magical ability the player gets, future scions also get. Every artifact you get, the scion also potentially has access to. Every skill you get makes your scion more skilled or talented in a similar way.

So the game play loop goes something like (family time)/(mis?-adventure)/(family time)/(mis?-adventure)/(family time)/(end of cycle). More or less steps per cycle depending on the granularity of events I wind up settling on. Most adventures will see the PC traveling to new locations, following clues toward some hidden power/item/entity. Many adventures will be about dealing with the event selected for this cycle, or troubles created by the scion.

This will not be an action game of any kind (ie, the player will never be physically moving the PC or other sprites around on the screen other than perhaps inventory and resource bars), nor strictly a choose-your-own-adventure with fixed paths. Think rogue-like sandbox-ish. I would like to incorporate some kind of fighting mechanics (likely jrpg style), and have the protagonist frequently deal with human and supernatural enemies. I want the game to have some replayability, so that there will be more powers/artifacts/skills than can be accomplished in one play through, and events will be randomized, with many of them being event chains in the way of story arcs. I'm also a fan of modding communities, and would like to leave the game moddable for people interested in adding new events, powers, items and such.

RenPy jumps to mind as a potentially appropriate engine, but I'm not fond of its tendency toward cookie cutter interfaces. I also don't recall seeing any RenPy games with sizable mods. Any recommendations? I tend to want more control, more options at the expense of handholding. And if this game takes off, I wouldn't mind turning it and the series into my daily earner so license limits have to be considered.
 

Winterfire

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RenPy jumps to mind as a potentially appropriate engine, but I'm not fond of its tendency toward cookie cutter interfaces.
Ren'Py doesn't force you to use default UI. You can have a really awesome and innoative looking UI, if you put the effort (and skills) into. But that's true for any game engine.


I also don't recall seeing any RenPy games with sizable mods. Any recommendations?
You mean game mods? Your game needs to have the incentive for people to want to mod it. Ren'Py is the most easy game engine to mod, if players aren't willing to mod your game in Ren'Py, it's even less likely they will in a less friendly game engine.


I tend to want more control, more options at the expense of handholding.
The limits of Ren'Py are limited to your knowledge of Python. You can extend it as much as you want, the only limit not worth reaching is 3D. However, if your game is 2D, you can pretty much have control on every element of it.


And if this game takes off, I wouldn't mind turning it and the series into my daily earner so license limits have to be considered.
With those tags? Very unlikely. But Ren'Py is also a +1 for an open license.
 

Cworx

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May 23, 2022
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Thanks for that! I'm just now beginning to look at options, but I'll definitely take a closer look at RenPy.
 

Winterfire

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Thanks for that! I'm just now beginning to look at options, but I'll definitely take a closer look at RenPy.
Here's a few examples of how you can extend Ren'Py:
https://f95zone.to/threads/sakura-dungeon-v1-0-5-winged-cloud.997/



Beautiful/fancy UI with as beautiful/fancy screens:
https://f95zone.to/threads/parasite-black-v0-153-damned-studios.92995/
https://f95zone.to/threads/divimera-r10-3-redikal.81300/


Those are just the ones that come to mind right now, but there are many more.
 
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kinrean

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May 12, 2018
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just to say renpy is bad with animation/video , and i make it clear, it can have animation but is bad to use it.

and i think you should give up on moding, it another set of work to do for you and not the work for engine.
 
Last edited:
May 3, 2018
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I agree with Winterfire .

RenPy can do just about anything 2D-wise, and the interface doesn't have to look like anything. Those are the defaults, and yeah, you can be lazy and leave them as-is and they work, but if you know even a little bit of Python, you can make a RenPy game look totally unique.

Another possibility you could go with is Godot. I think the option of which engine is best will depend on your percentage of "talking heads" and "menu clicking" versus actual gameplay. If you want lots of moving parts, direct control, etc. Godot is probably the better choice. Keep in mind that while it is easy to get into (lots of tutorials), Godot does require you to actually learn more coding to use it, and you'll need to build your own dialogue system and menus from scratch unless you use a plugin.

Also, I would be remiss if I didn't mention your concept is pretty ambitious for someone developing their first game. No one follows the advice, but you really would be better off starting with a couple of REALLY tiny games to learn the process and figure out what is easy for you and what is super hard for you in the game dev pipeline. And by tiny I mean like 1-2 characters, maybe 30 minutes of gameplay, and 1 mechanic.

This will also let you gauge how long it will take to develop your dream game, because if it takes you 3 months to make that tiny game, you'll know your magnum opus game is probably going to take you 10+ years.
 

Cworx

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May 23, 2022
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I took a quick look at ATL, yeah. I definitely want animated UI elements. I wonder how difficult it would be to import pyglet and make it work.
 

Cworx

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May 23, 2022
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Also, I would be remiss if I didn't mention your concept is pretty ambitious for someone developing their first game. No one follows the advice, but you really would be better off starting with a couple of REALLY tiny games to learn the process and figure out what is easy for you and what is super hard for you in the game dev pipeline.
Crucial advice, I agree and I hear you. And yes, I've written lots of small games over decades (I got my first computer, a TRS-80 CoCo2 in 1983). This will be my first attempt at something more than a brief "I wonder if I can..." hobby interest.

I left programming as a career about a decade ago and I'm comfortably set up in my current career that I have the capacity to consider a bigger project.
 
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Winterfire

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just to say renpy is bad with animation/video , and i make it clear, it can have animation but is bad to use it.

and i think you should give up on moding, it another set of work to do for you and not the work for engine.
What are you talking about? Ren'Py animation is very good. The only issue with Ren'Py's animation is the lack of support for webgl, at least back on Ren'Py 7. I heard the issue was solved on 8, but I can't be sure of that since I haven't tested it myself.


I took a quick look at ATL, yeah. I definitely want animated UI elements. I wonder how difficult it would be to import pyglet and make it work.
ATL is good for UI. You could use WebM, but considering that UI are just small elements, and the animations are most likely very simple (or even rely on transforms), ATL is what I'd suggest.
 

Ogrexin

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Nov 25, 2020
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Idk much about game design, so take my "advice" with a pinch of salt, it's more of a preference as a player rather than advice for development

Im sorta sick of renpy and rpgm, use unity or literally anything else please



You're a mage focused on ascending to a higher order of power. To accomplish this, you'll need to achieve immortality (so that you have enough time to do all of the work), you'll need to gain enough power in enough different types of magic in order to build your base magical knowledge and potency in order to make the leap/transformation.
What kind, maybe you could give the player an option for different kinds of immortality, which would depend on the result of your gameplay so far
if you did bad, you'll get undeath type immortality, but not ageless, you age, but you literally cannot die
naturally improvements would be ageless, and the base requirement for the game, but you could go higher if you want
The different types end up giving different endings


In this particular game (I have other games in mind with the same base premise but different twists), you've chosen to perfect your physical form through a magically enhanced breeding program thanks to an artifact you've acquired. Make a daughter/son depending on PC sex (hereon the 'scion'). Modify the scion's genetics through magic/alchemy/supernatural gifts/whatever, prepare their mind to grow their magical power, et cetera. Once they reach physical and magical peak, use the scion to make the next scion and then use the artifact to absorb from the first scion the enhanced life/vitality/mojo that aligns with your own, which will kill them (or possibly leave them a mindbroken drone servant, I haven't decided).
Instead of aborption, how about fusion or possession? IT could tie another immortality type aswell
And lore wise, you could do alot more than just aborption


Rinse and repeat. Game mechanics will revolve around using the skills you have to locate and acquire other skills, magical abilities and artifacts, managing (conditioning/educating/training) your scion to maximize the benefit when you drain them while trying to avoid letting them escape, becoming a threat, or such. Each generation makes your offspring more powerful (he/she too has magic, which is why this works), more willful, more difficult to control. As cycles progress, scions are more likely to escape, sabotage (either accidentally or intentionally) the end of cycle, setting events overwhelm the PC or disrupt the cycle. The artifact only works once every XX years, so it serves as a cycle time limit.
Really liking that idea, at the end game it could spice things up instead of making things dull
Lean into that more, add organaize rebellions or even war against your own scions if the player fucks up really badly


The setting will start out in the dark ages of an Earth-like fantasy setting and advance over time, introducing new challenges (a major religious or social institution coming after you, a war threatens your mage sanctuary or hampers your ability to obtain a macguffin, your home gets invaded by some supernatural creature, someone you've wronged in a previous cycle becomes a major enemy, your scion develops a magical talent you don't have and you're playing catch up). Each 'cycle' will typically see the magician gaining a new perk of some sort in the form of a new magical ability, a new artifact, or a new skill. I'm strongly considering letting the player choose one perk at the beginning (essentially flavoring what kind of mage they are - alchemist, necromancer, seer, summoner, whatnot),
Diversify your challanges a little more, perhaps add other mages or even goverments
Aswell as your character creation, i think your current idea is good, but add more schools of magic, add traits and skills which can only be given at the character creation and not acquirable during the game which give certain benefits to give different playstyles a possibilty


So the game play loop goes something like (family time)/(mis?-adventure)/(family time)/(mis?-adventure)/(family time)/(end of cycle). More or less steps per cycle depending on the granularity of events I wind up settling on. Most adventures will see the PC traveling to new locations, following clues toward some hidden power/item/entity. Many adventures will be about dealing with the event selected for this cycle, or troubles created by the scion.
REALLY make sure not to fuck this part up, it's REALLY Important
gameplay loops can make good games fall down to mediocre if not bad, play test or creat a good roadmap whwere you consider both the difficulty and length of time spent during the loop, or fucking get play tester volunteers, plenty of people here bored enough to contribute


This will not be an action game of any kind (ie, the player will never be physically moving the PC or other sprites around on the screen other than perhaps inventory and resource bars), nor strictly a choose-your-own-adventure with fixed paths. Think rogue-like sandbox-ish. I would like to incorporate some kind of fighting mechanics (likely jrpg style), and have the protagonist frequently deal with human and supernatural enemies. I want the game to have some replayability, so that there will be more powers/artifacts/skills than can be accomplished in one play through, and events will be randomized, with many of them being event chains in the way of story arcs. I'm also a fan of modding communities, and would like to leave the game moddable for people interested in adding new events, powers, items and such.
So a turn based combat system? Not a fan, atleast dont make it boring is all i'll say
As for replayability, you sorta got the idea, make a really branching game with different choices
Hell, you could use the school of magic chosen at the beginning to determine what kind of path the player goes on
A necromancer is naturally more evil than an alchemist or conjurer, and if you want to add more work on your back you can make a good and bad ending for each branching path
As for good replayability, also add ng+ benefits, this will really help returnning players, as playing through a going through tedious section of the game again will just turn them off, making them not even want to replay it in the first place
Basically take some kind of achivement or point system, the former determining how many benefits you can choose from, while the former would be something like a end of the game rating, which gives you a certain amount of benefits depending on how you did
Don't lean in too much into random events, obviously they add unpredictability to the game but dont make all events random, make 2 types, one random one conditioned, and this is all sepreate from the main story
Conditioned events would be something that would depend on the school of magic and main story choices you made, they dont have to affect the main story but rather just give rewards, lore, or punishments depending on your choices





Sorry if my advice comes off as unneccesary, but imma be honest and say im really interested by your game concept, so i felt a need to comment on it
 

kinrean

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May 12, 2018
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Crucial advice, I agree and I hear you. And yes, I've written lots of small games over decades (I got my first computer, a TRS-80 CoCo2 in 1983). This will be my first attempt at something more than a brief "I wonder if I can..." hobby interest.

I left programming as a career about a decade ago and I'm comfortably set up in my current career that I have the capacity to consider a bigger project.
if you are not new and looking to make thing big, i will say you should go for Godot or unreal for a long future , in the end renpy is design for VN not a complex game.
 
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kinrean

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What are you talking about? Ren'Py animation is very good. The only issue with Ren'Py's animation is the lack of support for webgl, at least back on Ren'Py 7. I heard the issue was solved on 8, but I can't be sure of that since I haven't tested it myself.
well maybe good for you but not for me, in the end is up to what you need.
 

Cworx

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May 23, 2022
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a lot! =)
Much or most of what you suggested, I've already considered. Some of it I've nixed due to a need to confine the scope of the project. But yes, I do anticipate conditional events (necromancers of a certain level of skill will see this event, people who have leaned hard toward benevolent choices will see this event, so on - a benevolence/callousness slider is one of the stats that can be set in chargen and will change with gameplay). Few events will be truly random, and most of those will tend to happen in the early cycles. After a few cycles, the player will have made enough choices and accomplishments that these will inform future events.

I did consider NG+ perks and may wind up implementing something like that. That's one of the things I love about rogue-likes. I plan for each individual NG+ perk to be quite minor, but as you unlock more and more of them their net benefit would tend to add up.

I do intend a lichdom win ending as well as undeath loss ending. I intend a redemption/repentence ending, maybe two. And there's a couple of other potential endings I'm considering besides the standard win condition. But because the artifact's time constraints are such a major component of the game design, I'm not sure I could offer many variations of the initial path to immortality without overly complicating the project unless every variation closely mirrors the base 'at XX time, scion ceases to exist and the next cycle starts'.
 
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massifteetees

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Apr 5, 2020
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I don't mean to be a downer, but everytime I see an overambitious idea, I can't help but think "There's a high chance this is all talk" because we have so so many of those here. Ideas with so many directions that lack connections and with no clear goals but a lot of wishful thinking ("If this project takes off I will [do ambitious something]", "If possible I want this game to have a [something complex but unclear]"). We get this everyday and determining the right game engine is often the wisher's least concern. Very few, if any, idea guys follow the "start small" advice and graduate to newbie devs.

But anyway this looks like it's better suited for Godot. Porn Empire is a very complex game that I know is built with Godot. Good luck with the project.
 
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Cworx

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May 23, 2022
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Feature creep is real, yeah.

Godot is fascinating and I'll probably be spending the next couple of days dinking around with it.