Recommendations for a game engine, please?

[Michelangelo da Mouso]

A while ago, some crazy dude analyzed 72 AVNs made with Unity and which plugins/addons the devs used. You can check what other devs have created, get some inspiration...

Im in a similar situation, building my first short AVN, and I plan to use Unity and test myself, maybe even develop some extra features.

 

[papel]

A while ago, some crazy dude analyzed 72 AVNs made with Unity and which plugins/addons the devs used. You can check what other devs have created, get some inspiration...

Im in a similar situation, building my first short AVN, and I plan to use Unity and test myself, maybe even develop some extra features.

Unless you're using Unity to render 3D scenes in real time, I wonder why you'd choose Unity to make a visual novel, given the number of alternatives besides RenPy.

 

[osanaiko]

There's a lot of advice here from people who seem to not be game developers.

Based on your description of the game, it sounds like a mix of VN with complex gameplay elements.

If you use Unity you will have to do a lot of work to implement standard expected game features that you get for free with Renpy. (the existing unity based VN engines are tolerable but not as easily extensible or open to modification as Renpy).

If you use Godot you will have to do a lot of work to implement standard expected game features that you get for free with Renpy. (Unless there is some new renpy-equivalent VN framework that has been released since last time I looked).

If you use RPGM you will have a game that looks like every other rpgm game and does not play like a VN. As you try to add complex gameplay elements, you will have a nightmare of mixing custom javascript with tile and object settings that can only be configured via the gui editor.

I have no idea what Kinrean is talking about, they seem to be unaware that Renpy is a 2d game engine for creating VNs and wishes it was a 3d engine like unreal or something.

Just use Renpy unless there is some compelling reason to choose differently.

 

[kinrean]

I have no idea what Kinrean is talking about, they seem to be unaware that Renpy is a 2d game engine for creating VNs and wishes it was a 3d engine like unreal or something.

Just use Renpy unless there is some compelling reason to choose differently.

you really missing the point, i never say renpy is a game engine for creating other type of game, i am saying the animation/video system is bad, that is all.

and the limit of using renpy is just as you say, is only a engine that can only make vn. and he want to make a complex game and you still want to recommend him to use renpy .

 

[Michelangelo da Mouso]

Unless you're using Unity to render 3D scenes in real time, I wonder why you'd choose Unity to make a visual novel, given the number of alternatives besides RenPy.

Just read your post about the "list of engines" and I see you have strong feelings against Unity. I get it. The company hasn’t been winning any popularity contests lately. But as an engine, it has a lot to offer—an enormous community, tons of plugins that make development easier, and it’s pretty newbie-friendly.

Just use Renpy unless there is some compelling reason to choose differently.

Sure, if you’re looking to make a visual novel, Ren'Py is the go-to choice. But learning Unity, Unreal, or other more versatile engines could be useful, say, if your ambitions grow and you want to add mechanics beyond just VN.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I am saying the animation/video system is bad, that is all.

Define bad...

There's just 3 static images and a bit of python behind that Ren'Py real time hologram effect with glitch.

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and the limit of using renpy is just as you say, is only a engine that can only make vn.

And this too is done in real time with Ren'Py...

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Are you sure that it's Ren'Py that is bad with animation, and not just you that is bad with Ren'Py ?


And of course, there's Sakura Dungeon, already pointed by Winterfire, and its old school 3D dungeon made 9 years ago by a Ren'Py that at this time didn't had shaders, nor 3D models feature or support for Live2D.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

~Snip~

Somethin' ain't right here.

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[kinrean]

Define bad...

so as long as it can play something is good?
then why not every one use it, and do all these great animation .
so if a car can drive there for is a good car even it have problem ?

and why other people use other engine for vn,
as you say i am shit at renpy so you got the ans right?

 

[Winterfire]

and why other people use other engine for vn,

Because it has other "issues" such as lacking a wysiwyg editor or real time 3D, both could be solved with some expertise (there have been demos and projects for both), but it comes to a point where you ask yourself if it's worth the time investment when alternatives exist.
However, when it comes to animation, Ren'Py is pretty solid so I don't really get where that fixation comes from.

 

[kinrean]

Because it has other "issues" such as lacking a wysiwyg editor or real time 3D, both could be solved with some expertise (there have been demos and projects for both), but it comes to a point where you ask yourself if it's worth the time investment when alternatives exist.
However, when it comes to animation, Ren'Py is pretty solid so I don't really get where that fixation comes from.

sure if you say so, but yet still there is not many people do it . in the end you can say how great the animation are but no many people do it .

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

then why not every one use it, and do all these great animation .
so if a car can drive there for is a good car even it have problem ?

Because you have to be able to do good animations in the first place, regardless of what engine you're using. To use your car analogy, say you put two people into a Buggatti, one of them is an average joe, the other is a formula one driver. Who's winning the race?

 

[kinrean]

Because you have to be able to do good animations in the first place, regardless of what engine you're using. To use your car analogy, say you put two people into a Buggatti, one of them is an average joe, the other is a formula one driver. Who's winning the race?

what you trying to say is truth but in the end, if the car is only make for formula one driver, who will want to drive it. the point is to make it easy for every one to drive, and not need a 10 year training to drive it. and making a game is not a race is about reaching the end, and you don't want to drive a car and hoping you will not crash with a car that have a problem .


and i make it clear again i never say renpy can't do animation i say is bad at animation. bad does not mean can't, and is about how easy for user to make and show and with out bug/problem
and i use unreal and many other program. if you want to think i am stupid that is fine but that does not make renpy easy or good for people who don't know or new to coding.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

if you want to think i am stupid that is fine

I would never insult you just for holding an opinion on something like this, so no worries there my man.

and i make it clear again i never say renpy can't do animation i say is bad at animation. bad does not mean can't, and is about how easy for user to make and show and with out bug/problem
and i use unreal and many other program.

Renpy itself doesn't do animations, but it's not really any worse at displaying the animations compared to something like Unreal, it's just different. I'd wager most 3D games with animations use either Daz 3D's built in tools (horrible) or blender to do their animations.

Allow me to make a guess here. Are you talking about a fully 3D game? Something like Wild Life? Because, yes, Renpy can't really do those well, if it's even possible.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Somethin' ain't right here.

Yeah, I know. I converted both videos long time ago and didn't care much, the time track is completely out of space.

so as long as it can play something is good?

Well, you decided that it's shit just because in your mind it can't at all. So, why can't I imply (because I said nothing) that it's not as bad as this, while proving it.

then why not every one use it, and do all these great animation .

Mostly for two reasons, cumulative or not: They don't have the bit of coding knowledge it need, or don't need them in their game.

and why other people use other engine for vn,
as you say i am shit at renpy so you got the ans right?

Winterfire already partly answered you ; and he know what he talk about, he did games with both Ren'Py and Unity.

But the main reason is simple: Because there's people like you who pass their time claiming that Ren'Py is "bad at this", "can't do that", while being wrong.
This lead some devs to believe that they'll need to use Unity for their game, because they have such great ideas. While in the end doing a game that absolutely don't need it, because they are lost and don't know how to implement their ideas.


What limit Ren'Py games to mostly VN is more the dev than the engine, but the dev. RPG Maker is easy to use, but limited. Unity is unlimited, but harder to use. And Ren'Py stand in between, being easy to use with really lax limits.

The realization isn't really great, but the best example of the wrongness about Ren'Py's limits is probably Lust Hunter. It's a Ren'Py game, yet it have a big dressing system, a RPG Maker-like map (with the assets directly coming from it), and an interesting combat system.
Doing it with Unity wouldn't be more difficult, because there's templates for most of the needed content. But neither would it be easier, because C# need more coding knowledge than Ren'Py ; something that most Ren'Py devs lack of, ~90% of them never had done coding before starting their game.

I'll even go further. I don't remember the name, because it never goes far, but when I registered, seven years ago, someone achieve to do a VR realtime 3D demo in pure Python. It was like the "fuck her how you want it" demo that also exist with Unity and Unreal, and that also never have been finished.
This mean that, as long as you've the knowledge regarding 3D algorithms, because you'll have to write them, Ren'Py could do real time 3D. Obviously, it would be more limited than Unity, Godot or Unreal, but it would be enough for a game like The Twist by example.
What's missing isn't the capabilities, but a template for the devs who don't know how to code this. Because if you've the knowledge to do it yourself, you also know that using C/C++/C# for it would be easier.

Side note: If someone remember the name of the game or, better, have a link, I'm interested.

 

[kinrean]

I would never insult you just for holding an opinion on something like this, so no worries there my man.

Renpy itself doesn't do animations, but it's not really any worse at displaying the animations compared to something like Unreal, it's just different. I'd wager most 3D games with animations use either Daz 3D's built in tools (horrible) or blender to do their animations.

Allow me to make a guess here. Are you talking about a fully 3D game? Something like Wild Life? Because, yes, Renpy can't really do those well, if it's even possible.

i am not talking about 3d game, and again i say is bad for animation that is all, it will be alot of work if you have alot of effect and thing you want to do for animating in renpy , but does not mean it can't work.

 

[kinrean]

Yeah, I know. I converted both videos long time ago and didn't care much, the time track is completely out of space.




Well, you decided that it's shit just because in your mind it can't at all. So, why can't I imply (because I said nothing) that it's not as bad as this, while proving it.




Mostly for two reasons, cumulative or not: They don't have the bit of coding knowledge it need, or don't need them in their game.




Winterfire already partly answered you ; and he know what he talk about, he did games with both Ren'Py and Unity.

But the main reason is simple: Because there's people like you who pass their time claiming that Ren'Py is "bad at this", "can't do that", while being wrong.
This lead some devs to believe that they'll need to use Unity for their game, because they have such great ideas. While in the end doing a game that absolutely don't need it, because they are lost and don't know how to implement their ideas.


What limit Ren'Py games to mostly VN is more the dev than the engine, but the dev. RPG Maker is easy to use, but limited. Unity is unlimited, but harder to use. And Ren'Py stand in between, being easy to use with really lax limits.

The realization isn't really great, but the best example of the wrongness about Ren'Py's limits is probably Lust Hunter. It's a Ren'Py game, yet it have a big dressing system, a RPG Maker-like map (with the assets directly coming from it), and an interesting combat system.
Doing it with Unity wouldn't be more difficult, because there's templates for most of the needed content. But neither would it be easier, because C# need more coding knowledge than Ren'Py ; something that most Ren'Py devs lack of, ~90% of them never had done coding before starting their game.

I'll even go further. I don't remember the name, because it never goes far, but when I registered, seven years ago, someone achieve to do a VR realtime 3D demo in pure Python. It was like the "fuck her how you want it" demo that also exist with Unity and Unreal, and that also never have been finished.
This mean that, as long as you've the knowledge regarding 3D algorithms, because you'll have to write them, Ren'Py could do real time 3D. Obviously, it would be more limited than Unity, Godot or Unreal, but it would be enough for a game like The Twist by example.
What's missing isn't the capabilities, but a template for the devs who don't know how to code this. Because if you've the knowledge to do it yourself, you also know that using C/C++/C# for it would be easier.

Side note: If someone remember the name of the game or, better, have a link, I'm interested.

again, i never say it can't do it , i say is bad, and adding thing like python can do this can do that, is pointless . if you work on it every thing can be done, but that does not mean is good.

in the end making game is not going to moon , the goal should be as easy as you can do it and what you need. if you love renpy that is fine but that does not mean is a engine for people who love animation. and i am not talking about 3d.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Renpy itself doesn't do animations,

I have to stop you there, it do.

It's limited in the animations it can do by default, but between the Animation and Transform Language, and the model based approach with its camera, it can do interesting animations with just few static images.

By example any game could have this:

image doorOpening:
   parallel:
      backgroundImage
   parallel:
      doorSprite
      xpos 100
      ypos 100
      ease 2.0  xpos 200
   parallel:
      foregroundImage

label whatever:
   scene doorOpening

The door will slowly (here 2 seconds) open like a sliding door, being hidden behind the foreground image, and revealing the background image.

And I'm 60% sure that with the model based approach, that permit to manipulate a plan in space through the X, Y and Z axis, you can make the door open like a regular one.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I have to stop you there, it do.

It's limited in the animations it can do by default, but between the Animation and Transform Language, and the model based approach with its camera, it can do interesting animations with just few static images.

By example any game could have this:

image doorOpening:
   parallel:
      backgroundImage
   parallel:
      doorSprite
      xpos 100
      ypos 100
      ease 2.0  xpos 200
   parallel:
      foregroundImage

label whatever:
   scene doorOpening

The door will slowly (here 2 seconds) open like a sliding door, being hidden behind the foreground image, and revealing the background image.

And I'm 60% sure that with the model based approach, that permit to manipulate a plan in space through the X, Y and Z axis, you can make the door open like a regular one.

Huh, didn't know that. Thank you. Learning something new everyday.

 

[kinrean]

but i find it funny that people want to prove renpy can do animation but yet is not a game engine for the best animation you can have. it a vn game engine and it should be like a book with image. not a book with "great" animation.

it can do alot of thing if you put in work , yea that same for every thing.
and people who trying to prove by using other game that have "great" animation, how many renpy game is there and how many game have "great" animation. the number have show how hard/bad it is.

and all this talk/fight , is good, lettings people know what you can do in renpy . but it still limit by what it design for.

 

[anne O'nymous]

again, i never say it can't do it , i say is bad, and adding thing like python can do this can do that, is pointless . if you work on it every thing can be done, but that does not mean is good.

Why ? Python is one of the four languages used to develop games with Ren'Py. Ren'Py even natively come with a method to add statements into the game language.

What you said can also be said about Unity: Adding things like libraries can do this, can do that, is pointless. If you work on it, everything can be done, but that doesn't mean that it's good.
And what to say about Unreal, that is nothing if you don't firstly write the most basic code ?

Huh, didn't know that. Thank you. Learning something new everyday.

You're welcome.
Just be careful, it's the end of work day for me, I'll go home once I validate that post, and I wrote the code on the fly. So there's perhaps a typo or two. But the logic is here, and I know that the animation works.

In the video I posted above, I used the same principle to make a raster be on top my logo and only it. The logo is the background, the raster the equivalent of the door, and there's a massive black mask over it, with just the logo space as transparent part.