Release planning after Itch.io changes – looking for dev strategies

[allanl9020142]

apricate it

Too tired to tell whether you're messing with me now...

Anyways, good luck.

If you want my two cents as a non-dev, if the game is good enough then it might not be a bad idea to just use this site as a marketing funnel towards Patreon/Subscribestar. People here tend to gravitate towards something if it's really good (visuals, sound, decent story, etc.) or you know ... if it's a niche genre.

I'm not really sure what the outlook is for the current adult indie game market and I also don't know enough about the policy changes happening. But I also just don't see why you can't make your game available in as many places as possible ... right?

Also seems like "analysis paralysis" when your options seem limited and should be clear. If it's not allowed on Steam or wherever else, then isn't your only option to market it here and point people towards other means to support you?

I don't know, I'm tired and maybe didn't read the OP properly.

 

[Chronoromancer]

Too tired to tell whether you're messing with me now...

Anyways, good luck.

If you want my two cents as a non-dev, if the game is good enough then it might not be a bad idea to just use this site as a marketing funnel towards Patreon/Subscribestar. People here tend to gravitate towards something if it's really good (visuals, sound, decent story, etc.) or you know ... if it's a niche genre.

I'm not really sure what the outlook is for the current adult indie game market and I also don't know enough about the policy changes happening. But I also just don't see why you can't make your game available in as many places as possible ... right?

Also seems like "analysis paralysis" when your options seem limited and should be clear. If it's not allowed on Steam or wherever else, then isn't your only option to market it here and point people towards other means to support you?

I don't know, I'm tired and maybe didn't read the OP properly.

I wasn’t messing with you — I did go back and fix it. I’m new to F95zone, and honestly new to posting on forums in general. I’ve mostly had tunnel vision on building my game, and only recently realized how important community presence is for devs here.

I have noticed the changes in the NSFW game scene. From what I’ve gathered — both from my own research and talking with others — it is harder now for adult devs to make a living. The old “link and leave” approach doesn’t seem as viable anymore. That’s why I’m here, listening and asking questions. Even feedback on spelling helps, because it all adds to credibility when I'm promoting a story-driven adult game. So I do appreciate the advice.

On your point about making the game available everywhere: yes, of course we try to spread out as much as possible. But for devs who want to earn from their work, the question becomes: do we tone down content to stay safe on Patreon/Itch/Steam, or do we take the risk and keep the game as we want it? That’s really what I was trying to ask — how are other devs handling this new reality?

Maybe the only real option is what you said: publish wherever you can and hope for the best. But then the personal choice is: do I soften parts of my game I don’t want to, or do I release it as-is and take my chances? I know nobody can really answer that. And that, is part of the problem. So all I can do, is gleam from other people's experiences and the stories I hear.
Thank you very much for your feedback!

 

[Winterfire]

I wasn’t messing with you — I did go back and fix it. I’m new to F95zone, and honestly new to posting on forums in general. I’ve mostly had tunnel vision on building my game, and only recently realized how important community presence is for devs here.

I have noticed the changes in the NSFW game scene. From what I’ve gathered — both from my own research and talking with others — it is harder now for adult devs to make a living. The old “link and leave” approach doesn’t seem as viable anymore. That’s why I’m here, listening and asking questions. Even feedback on spelling helps, because it all adds to credibility when I'm promoting a story-driven adult game. So I do appreciate the advice.

On your point about making the game available everywhere: yes, of course we try to spread out as much as possible. But for devs who want to earn from their work, the question becomes: do we tone down content to stay safe on Patreon/Itch/Steam, or do we take the risk and keep the game as we want it? That’s really what I was trying to ask — how are other devs handling this new reality?

Maybe the only real option is what you said: publish wherever you can and hope for the best. But then the personal choice is: do I soften parts of my game I don’t want to, or do I release it as-is and take my chances? I know nobody can really answer that. And that, is part of the problem. So all I can do, is gleam from other people's experiences and the stories I hear.
Thank you very much for your feedback!

That's a dreamy way of seeing things, but reality (that I believe Count Morado was the one to link from time to time?) is that the average is around 100 bucks per dev. Not everyone makes it big, and if you start doing this for money, you're more likely to fail.

As for toning it down - It depends. What are we talking about, exactly? Each platform has its rules, if you're making a vanilla game, you can safely put it everywhere.

 

[Chronoromancer]

That's a dreamy way of seeing things, but reality (that I believe Count Morado was the one to link from time to time?) is that the average is around 100 bucks per dev. Not everyone makes it big, and if you start doing this for money, you're more likely to fail.

As for toning it down - It depends. What are we talking about, exactly? Each platform has its rules, if you're making a vanilla game, you can safely put it everywhere.

If it turns out that making a profit isn’t possible, then of course I’d have to move on. But right now, with my background — my wife and I are artists, I’m also a musician/producer, and I’ve been sitting in front of a high-end PC for too long — this seemed like a chance to build something I’m interested in and maybe earn from it.

When I started, the landscape felt very different. A lot of people here say “nothing has changed,” but I don’t see how that’s true. To me, this is the most profound shift we’ve faced as creators. It’s not just about platforms anymore — it’s about how much self-censorship is creeping into our process. And the sad part is, these changes aren’t even driven by laws, but by groups and companies that shouldn’t have this much power over fiction.

I’ve already cut or altered scenes I originally thought weren’t “that bad.” But where do you draw the line? If a fantasy hero defeats a BDSM dungeon queen — wouldn’t players expect some kind of adult “reward”? If a wizard uses a seduction spell — is that suddenly unacceptable, even in a fantasy context? If the player rescues a victim from a demon before anything happens — is even that now off-limits? These are the gray areas we’re all forced to second-guess.

Of course, everyone here wants the same thing: more freedom of creation, more expression, and the chance to be paid fairly if people enjoy our work. I just don’t see how anyone can say the landscape hasn’t changed — because it clearly has.

Thanks for your advice and suggestions, I do appreciate it.

 

[Count Morado]

From what I’ve gathered — both from my own research and talking with others — it is harder now for adult devs to make a living. The old “link and leave” approach doesn’t seem as viable anymore.

Whatever you researched or talked with others about... is wrong. It is just as hard/easy as it ever was. "Link and leave" was never viable. Not in game development. Not in real life. Just like Winterfire says:

That's a dreamy way of seeing things, but reality (that I believe Count Morado was the one to link from time to time?) is that the average is around 100 bucks per dev. Not everyone makes it big, and if you start doing this for money, you're more likely to fail.

After Patreon fees deducted, but before credit card/processing/VAT fees deducted (link):

• 2022 - mean adult game developer on patreon - even after years on the platform: $100-ish USD per month
• 2023 - mean adult game developer on patreon - even after years on the platform: $100-ish USD per month
• 2024 - mean adult game developer on patreon - even after years on the platform: $100-ish USD per month
• 2025 - will have update in December-ish

Note, that $100-ish USD per month is only for adult game developers who actually have paid subscribers. There are 1900 adult game developers who have been on Patreon for over a year who have ZERO paid subs.

Steam really isn't "that" much better, the games that got on Steam in 2018 when adult gaming opened up on that platform seem to be doing much better than those since 2018. After Steam fees deducted, but before credit card/process/VAT fees deducted (link) - you're looking at the mean adult game on there pulling in an average of about $190-ish USD per month during the lifetime of the game on the site.

But for devs who want to earn from their work, the question becomes: do we tone down content to stay safe on Patreon/Itch/Steam, or do we take the risk and keep the game as we want it? That’s really what I was trying to ask — how are other devs handling this new reality?

If you want to earn from your work - you're going to have to bust your ass promoting your game. Listing it everywhere, communicate with current and potential subscribers and customers, etc. Developing the game is only a part of it. There is a lot of footwork necessary to get it in front of enough eyes for people to start subbing and/or buying it.

As for site rules:
Itch

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on Adult Content
Patreon

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on Sexually Gratifying Works
Steam

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on What You Shouldn't Publish
Subscribestar Rules on

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and

You must be registered to see the links

Itch's rules really haven't changed much since 2015 - only clarifying them better. Just about everything you see on their site today is just an expansion/clarification of the below:

What got them into trouble earlier this year is that they are understaffed to review content before accepting new games/developers onto their site (one reason why they are "affordable" and "popular" among freelance and hobbyist developers) -- as we as the ideology that they wouldn't "censor" content. However, when it became public about their lack of control, credit cards/payment processors applied pressure.

And it's been known since at least 2017, if not since 2015, about what things payment processors do not allow their services to be used for when it comes to adult content. It's one of the reasons why Patreon started enforcing their already stated rules in 2017-2018 and increasing enforcement in 2023-2024 when they nixed even a couple of top-20 adult game developers for violating those rules. While they aren't as understaffed as some other platforms, what staff they do have seem to respond to reports a lot quicker than most others. And they appear to take the reports seriously.

Steam fucked up when they started accepting adult games - because they should have followed the same rules that Itch and Patreon already had stated on their site: that credit card/payment processor rules needed to be adhered to for games on their site. That's what got them into trouble this year, just like Itch.

Finally, Subscribestar has had the rules for at least a couple of years, when they doubled down on that in July 2022 after the Australian Government knocked on their proverbial door and with search warrants regarding one certain developer. That's when they became both much clearer and more broad in what is prohibited on their site --- even if they aren't actively enforcing those prohibitions, yet. Much of that is due to the fact that they have a very limited staff (probably a little bigger than Itch's?) and so they take a long time to respond to reports, etc.

So -- nothing really has changed. Just like before - are you willing to risk your game doesn't get banned the first day? the first month? the first year? Or even after you have 7 or 8 years under your belt and became a top 20 Patreon developer, only then having the site banning you and shutting off your livelihood --- the earnings you use to pay the rent/mortgage, car payments, food, kids' school supplies, etc. Or, are you going to try to follow the rules of the site who is allowing you to use their infrastructure and network to earn a living?

I’ve already cut or altered scenes I originally thought weren’t “that bad.” But where do you draw the line? If a fantasy hero defeats a BDSM dungeon queen — wouldn’t players expect some kind of adult “reward”? If a wizard uses a seduction spell — is that suddenly unacceptable, even in a fantasy context? If the player rescues a victim from a demon before anything happens — is even that now off-limits? These are the gray areas we’re all forced to second-guess.

Of course, everyone here wants the same thing: more freedom of creation, more expression, and the chance to be paid fairly if people enjoy our work. I just don’t see how anyone can say the landscape hasn’t changed — because it clearly has.

Of course players should expect some kind of adult "reward" --- but it can't appear to be non-consensual.
Seduction spells were always questionable and still are --- it's just that a lot of developers put them into their games WITHOUT ASKING FIRST either because they were trying to slip something under the radar or weren't aware it created a non-consensual situation. SO ASK!
Player rescues a victim before something happens? ASK!

Ask
Ask
Ask
Ask

Document
Document
Document
Document

I (and others) have been saying this same shit on this site for 3 years (and others for longer). But some developers chose not to, for whatever reason, and now there are a few who are coming back playing the "victim card" that they were cheated out --- when no, no, they weren't.

Now, as for Steam? Yeah, developers got shafted a bit there because Steam didn't do their job right.

But again, ask, ask, ask, ask. Document, document, document, document.

 

[Chronoromancer]

I get your point about “my house, my rules,” and I’ll adapt if I want to earn in this space. But I don’t think that’s the full story — the timing across platforms wasn’t random, and outside pressure from payment providers and activist groups absolutely played a role. I don’t condone censorship, even if I have to tame content to survive. Sad truth, but I appreciate your advice — you gave me a lot to think about, and your response really did answer the question I was struggling with: what should I do? And you’re right — for now, I have to play by their rules.

 

[Count Morado]

I get your point about “my house, my rules,” and I’ll adapt if I want to earn in this space.

Well, "this space" is a site where millions of people (like 90%+ of the 9+ million registered accounts) come NOT to subscribe to or pay a developer anything in order to use their product. So, earning in "this space" is already moot. But, F95Zone can be a place to gather some supporters, as well as garner some word of mouth (hopefully positive). Think of "this space" of a place where you will earn that thing artists are always expected to earn... "exposure."

You can make whatever content you want - nothing is stopping you. However, if you want to use a space (even F95Zone for exposure) - yes, you will have to follow the rules of the place that may be willing to allow you to use their home.

Edit: as any artist hoping to get a gallery show knows, art is culled for those shows. And an artist's works are subject to denial for gallery shows if it doesn't meet the standards, content, etc of the gallery. This is no different. As for musicians, you can't play a set of death metal in a traditional country-western bar and expect it to fly. Again, this is no different. As an artist and a musician, you cater your works and your services to audience expectations, otherwise you're going to live that "starving artist" moniker for a very long time.

the timing across platforms wasn’t random, and outside pressure from payment providers and activist groups absolutely played a role.

At no point did I say anything was "random" - nor did I even come close to implying such.

I mentioned that in my post regarding Steam and Itch - that they hadn't been upholding their rules (and even Steam not listing a rule)and it came to the attention of credit cards/payment processors who reminded them of their duty. Go read my comment again - I think you missed details - because I even give dates/years in my discussion in correlation to the previous.

And platforms, like Steam and Itch, have to play by the rules of the "houses" of the credit cards/payment processors if those platforms want to use their services.

You have always had to play by their rules --- if you didn't want to risk your content getting yanked at some point. That hasn't changed. And the rules really haven't changed for several years (and in some cases, a decade or longer). It's just that this year, like in 2017-2018 Patreon purge (and the mini purge of 2024), quite a few developers were booted when sites upped their diligence in doing what they should have been doing all along. But, they were taking a risk, themselves.

Just like in real life:

• You always need to obey the speed limit --- or take a risk by speeding.
• You always need to pay for products you want to use --- or take a risk by stealing them.
• You always need to pay your debts --- or take a risk by letting them lapse.

You always need to play by the rules --- or take a risk at getting caught.

So that's the "dilemma" you face --- do you play by the rules, or do you take a risk?
Does current Chronoromancer want to risk future Chronoromancer's livelihood (ironic name, as we are talking about time and your relationship with it)?

 

[uwuwoof]

Okay, so you are an alt account of someone... suspicious you wouldn't just use your actual account. But hey, you do you "uwu".

I think you are a smart fella and can guess why it is a good idea to use an alt account on this matter. uwu

And when someone does get a green light - they do need to be sure to save that correspondence --- in case someone comes back later with a different response due to a report or simply doing spot-checks.

Sure, that is a strategy but the outcome will be quite random.

Payment Processor TOS a slippery slope. Just an example: "Non-consensual" is a spectrum and can go up to "unenthusiastic sex". Good luck asking.

So the real question is: do we conform and sand everything down to PG-14, or do we look harder for alternative platforms where adult games can exist without moving goalposts?

Third option is to ignore the payment processor clauses inside the TOS of those platforms and do what you like. Let's be real, a seduction spell is more interesting then not having one, not to mention fighting a BDSM mistress. Following these specific TOS clauses or not can make the difference between making something interesting or being irrelevant. Rule of thumb is, don't do minors or corresponding settings like a school, don't talk obviously about content which might violate payment processor rules and you likely will be fine.

And platforms, like Steam and Itch, have to play by the rules of the "houses" of the credit cards/payment processors if those platforms want to use their services.

Do they tho? Steam did a bare minimum with the ban wave and removed only a friction, while still approving new games which are breaking the new clause, and the payment processors still haven't pulled the plug. On Itch, most TOS breaking games are doing fine. A TOS is not the law and can be contested.

Does current Chronoromancer want to risk future Chronoromancer's livelihood

The way I see it is that your livelihood is at risk no matter what you do in case you go full time porn dev. The platforms can decide to ban porn altogether next year, who knows. You could've been a victim of Steams recent ban wave even if you followed their rules.

Best thing you can do If you are making a living with adult games development, don't put everything in one basked.

 

[Count Morado]

I think you are a smart fella and can guess why it is a good idea to use an alt account on this matter. uwu



Sure, that is a strategy but the outcome will be quite random.

Payment Processor TOS a slippery slope. Just an example: "Non-consensual" is a spectrum and can go up to "unenthusiastic sex". Good luck asking.



Third option is to ignore the payment processor clauses inside the TOS of those platforms and do what you like. Let's be real, a seduction spell is more interesting then not having one, not to mention fighting a BDSM mistress. Following these specific TOS clauses or not can make the difference between making something interesting or being irrelevant. Rule of thumb is, don't do minors or corresponding settings like a school, don't talk obviously about content which might violate payment processor rules and you likely will be fine.



Do they tho? Steam did a bare minimum with the ban wave and removed only a friction, while still approving new games which are breaking the new clause, and the payment processors still haven't pulled the plug. On Itch, most TOS breaking games are doing fine. A TOS is not the law and can be contested.



The way I see it is that your livelihood is at risk no matter what you do in case you go full time porn dev. The platforms can decide to ban porn altogether next year, who knows. You could've been a victim of Steams recent ban wave even if you followed their rules.

Best thing you can do If you are making a living with adult games development, don't put everything in one basked.

This is drivel, Winterfire. Yes, I know it is you.

Nothing you say contradicts what I say .. you're just advocating for them to take the risk rather than not.

Sure, site TOS may change. But that is a calculated risk. Unlike just saying fuck it from the start and knowingly violate the rules from day 1. That is not calculated risk, that's calculated fraud.

And yes, next year platforms could decide to stop hosting adult games altogether. Just like next year, McDonald's could decide to drop their snack wraps or breakfast wraps. Again, a calculated risk -- but to use the unknown to knowingly say fuck it.. again...see above.

What you're advocating is not unlike saying *my wife may decide to stop having sex with me next year, So I might as well fuck my secretary tonight* or *my wife might decide to divorce me next year, so I'm going to....*

Sure, TOS are not laws. But TOS are legally binding agreements. And, yes, can be contested. But do 98% of the adult game developers have the money to hire attorneys in order to do so, if need be? No.

Normally I agree with you.
But here we part ways.

There was no need to create an alt account to specifically reply to this thread, as you weren't saying anything out of the ordinary in your first response. Now it's even more sad.

If you wanted to know what how I knew... Bloo's Guide and allowing users to see online activity.

 

[AIMzheimer]

feminists have NOTHING to do with this.

Keep fooling yourself

 

[alonehentain]

Why a question thread can be turned into a war zone battle in just a few sentences?

 

[uwuwoof]

This is drivel, Winterfire. Yes, I know it is you.

When in doubt, accuse Winterfire. Heh. Just to relief Winterfire from the accusation. I mentioned that you get indexed on itch when removing payment options, Winterfire corrected it, saying new developers have to open a ticket first. I did not know this.

Sure, site TOS may change. But that is a calculated risk. Unlike just saying fuck it from the start and knowingly violate the rules from day 1. That is not calculated risk, that's calculated fraud.

I don't think it is fraud. I think it is a grey area because the rules are dependent on their interpretation. I feel like you are putting yourself more at risk when trying to cater to those rules. I just read about a payment processor not allowing fake cat ears because it resembles bestiality. Now imagine what you will go through when you always try to ask those platforms for feedback about the content you are making.

Sure, TOS are not laws. But TOS are legally binding agreements. And, yes, can be contested. But do 98% of the adult game developers have the money to hire attorneys in order to do so, if need be? No.

In case you are doing it full time, having legal protection is recommended. Platforms often have TOS clauses which are invalid, depending on the country you are from. In Europe you have some protective laws which contradict american TOS clauses in general.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Think of "this space" of a place where you will earn that thing artists are always expected to earn... "exposure."

While keeping in mind that people will be more prone to share all the bad they think about you, than the good. Do a good job, and perhaps that one player out of 10,000 will talk about your game once in a while. Do "the wrong thing" (and what is wrong can easily vary), and it's one out of 100 that will say all the bad they think about you, and they'll do it ever other day.

Being here will make your game being known, what doesn't necessarily mean success. But it can also easily make you fail if you're not cautious.
So, OP, focus your communication to your actual patrons (well, when you'll have them of course), to secure their support. And when you interact here, think twice and try to weight what you'll say.

 

[Count Morado]

When in doubt, accuse Winterfire. Heh. Just to relief Winterfire from the accusation. I mentioned that you get indexed on itch when removing payment options, Winterfire corrected it, saying new developers have to open a ticket first. I did not know this.



I don't think it is fraud. I think it is a grey area because the rules are dependent on their interpretation. I feel like you are putting yourself more at risk when trying to cater to those rules. I just read about a payment processor not allowing fake cat ears because it resembles bestiality. Now imagine what you will go through when you always try to ask those platforms for feedback about the content you are making.



In case you are doing it full time, having legal protection is recommended. Platforms often have TOS clauses which are invalid, depending on the country you are from. In Europe you have some protective laws which contradict american TOS clauses in general.

It's fraud, Winterfire. When developers agree to the TOS to create a seller's account, and knowingly are lying on the contract... That is fraud. If a site wanted to, and could prove knowledge they could go after full compensation and damages of any payments, as well as ask for punitive damages. Now, are they? No. Because 99% of all developers are small $$$$ and it would cost more than to simply remove the game, ban the developer, etc.

But yes, it is fraud.

Anyway, I'm done. I will say I am still confused by the alt account created simply to reply to this thread. It's very odd.

As for uwu=winterfire:
When I was wanting to add on to a reply to uwu, I wanted to make sure you wasn't already in the thread, reading the post. I hovered over the pfp, and it said uwu was looking at Bloo's Guide. Since uwu hadn't apparently seen the post I was about to edit/on to, I did so. Otherwise I would have waited for a reply from uwu.

Winterfire's next comment in the thread was to direct OP to Bloo's Guide. Now, could that be a coincidence? Sure... But 9 million accounts and an account already known as an alt browsing the exact thread just prior to another account linking to it? That's a huge coincidence.

 

[uwuwoof]

When I was wanting to add on to a reply to uwu, I wanted to make sure you wasn't already in the thread, reading the post. I hovered over the pfp, and it said uwu was looking at Bloo's Guide. Since uwu hadn't apparently seen the post I was about to edit/on to, I did so. Otherwise I would have waited for a reply from uwu.

Bloo's guide is very popular, many people access it daily, this doesn't mean I am Winterfire, you got the wrong person uwu

When developers agree to the TOS to create a seller's account, and knowingly are lying on the contract... That is fraud.

Like mentioned, the heavily interpretable nature of the TOS payment processor clauses allows you to just interpret it differently, and therefore you did not break the TOS "knowingly."

 

[Winterfire]

What?? No, I am not uwufoof you got the wrong person, I don't have alts!

 

[Count Morado]

heavily interpretable nature of the TOS payment processor clauses allows you to just interpret it differently, and therefore you did not break the TOS "knowingly."

No. The interpretable nature of the TOS clauses (any of them) allows the entity whose TOS they are to give them as much broad leeway, legally, to enforce whatever they see is necessary for them to run their business successfully, while minimizing risk, and increasing profits. When a clause isn't fulfilling its intent, then the entity usually edits, refines, revises, revamps, replaces with a better clause.

Developers aren't allowed to interpret those clauses of the platforms' TOS differently - they can only follow what the platform deems the TOS to say. And when we have conversations like this in a thread - that is easily discoverable by using a Google Search, and should a platform wish - they could use it to show knowledge and intent. Or if they found it necessary should they decide to purse compensation.

And again, this all goes back to what I have been saying in this thread --- and many threads ---- over and over and over and over --- for the past 3+ years ----- ASK and DOCUMENT. Part of the reason for the documentation is so that if a platform does change their interpretation or change their TOS or something similar and BAN a game and/or BAN a developer. This documentation gives a developer the ability to show they moved forward with content with sincere intent to abide by TOS and with the understanding that it was allowed, as presented by the platform representatives, themselves. THIS does give them the ability to then contest a ban, requesting restoration. Even if the platform says "sure, but under the current interpretation - this content, that content, and the other one is not allowed - if you want to list this game from this point forward, you will need to remove the content." Without asking when in doubt and without document those responses, it's your ass in the wind.

I don't know why this idea of working honestly and covering your ass is such a foreign concept.

you got the wrong person uwu

I am not uwufoof you got the wrong person

 

[uwuwoof]

I know that your own interpretation of the TOS does not matter but that was not the point, I just tried to explain how it is not fraud since you can claim you are not knowingly lying.

I don't know why this idea of working honestly and covering your ass is such a foreign concept.

I think I made my point why trying to play it safe might not be a good idea, so we agree to disagree and just leave it there I guess.

I also find this kind of honesty towards a platform quite a one sided relationship, because I find the TOS payment processor clauses and how they are executed not honest, random, and only harmful towards developers. In my opinion, if developers try to cater to them as best as they can in order to play it as safe as possible, it will only make things get worse.

Note: I just played along with Winterfires joke lol

 

[Count Morado]

I know that your own interpretation of the TOS does not matter but that was not the point, I just tried to explain how it is not fraud since you can claim you are not knowingly lying.

Again, I already covered that in my posts.

Sure, site TOS may change. But that is a calculated risk. Unlike just saying fuck it from the start and knowingly violate the rules from day 1. That is not calculated risk, that's calculated fraud.

When developers agree to the TOS to create a seller's account, and knowingly are lying on the contract... That is fraud. If a site wanted to, and could prove knowledge they could go after full compensation and damages of any payments, as well as ask for punitive damages. Now, are they? No. Because 99% of all developers are small $$$$ and it would cost more than to simply remove the game, ban the developer, etc.

But yes, it is fraud.

Here is the legal definition in the US, since it appears you want to interpret it differently:

You must be registered to see the links

Other countries have similar definitions.

I think I made my point why trying to play it safe might not be a good idea, so we agree to disagree and just leave it there I guess.

I also find this kind of honesty towards a platform quite a one sided relationship, because I find the TOS payment processor clauses and how they are executed not honest, random, and only harmful towards developers. In my opinion, if developers try to cater to them as best as they can in order to play it as safe as possible, it will only make things get worse.

Note: I just played along with Winterfires joke lol

Yes, you can have that opinion - but, I already covered that previously as well, with the wife/cheating/divorce ... so you think the platform will fuck you over in the future, so why not fuck them over first. You think your hypothetical wife will cheat or divorce you in the future, so why not fuck them over first. You can have that opinion, but it shows a lot more about you than it does about the platforms.

The platforms are the only... platform... developers have to list their games in order to earn a living --- unless they want to rely on cashier's checks, checks, and money orders via postal services. Just like if you want to see your items in bulk, you have the choice of doing it out of your garage or some building you may own by taking cash, etc... or you have to follow the rules and guidelines of the place you wish to use to do so (such as ebay, Amazon, etc) with greater reach, etc. This isn't something specific to the gaming industry. This is established commerce. As I have stated in various other threads on this site - we may not agree on their rules, but they have the right to have those rules as long as they abide by the law and the right to enforce those rules as they see fit.

Note: Right. Again, it's just a coincidence that two "separate" accounts chatting with me in a single thread would be in the same other thread within the same 10-15 minutes timeframe on the same day - out of 9 million accounts. One copying the link, the other doing whatever. One being an admitted brand-new alt of a person who has access to the dev forum. The other being a long-standing developer who chimes in with an exact same opinion as the alt after I called out the account for not knowing shit for being a first time account with a first post. Yes, it could happen that these two are "separate" accounts --- but Occam's Razor in practice presents the more likely case that the two "separate" accounts are the same person.

Anyway, again - it sounds like we are saying the same thing - it's up to the developer to decide whether or not they want to try to pull something over on a platform or not. You "two" are of the opinion that they should take that risk. I am of the opinion that one should ASK, DOCUMENT and not take that risk.

Have a great day.

 

[Winterfire]

Note: Right. Again, it's just a coincidence that two "separate" accounts chatting with me in a single thread would be in the same other thread within the same 10-15 minutes timeframe on the same day - out of 9 million accounts. One copying the link, the other doing whatever. One being an admitted brand-new alt of a person who has access to the dev forum. The other being a long-standing developer who chimes in with an exact same opinion as the alt after I called out the account for not knowing shit for being a first time account with a first post. Yes, it could happen that these two are "separate" accounts --- but Occam's Razor in practice presents the more likely case that the two "separate" accounts are the same person.

Anyway, again - it sounds like we are saying the same thing - it's up to the developer to decide whether or not they want to try to pull something over on a platform or not. You "two" are of the opinion that they should take that risk. I am of the opinion that one should ASK, DOCUMENT and not take that risk.

Have a great day.

Ok let's settle this, if you're right, I'm going to make a thread publicly saying that uwuwoof is my alt account, but if you're wrong, you'll have to put in your signature to wishlist my game (Enterwined Roots) for 1 month, you have space for 1 image so that'd be perfect. No text, raw wishlist image that redirects to my steam when clicked.

If you agree to the bet, I give full permission to mods/staff to let you know if I have an alt of any kind in this site.