Night Mirror

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So.... anything gonna happen? or can I put a request in for that then?
Added to The Request List, but with a big *. Editing animations is a very time intensive process for me. I usually only do it for something I really want to see in the game. Adding a condom isn't something I really want, so it is very unlikely I'll ever add.
 
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kimlana

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So.... anything gonna happen? or can I put a request in for that then?
I have nothing to do with the game nor do I speak for its developer but I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts regarding customized content like this, partly as I start to dabble with creating modifications of my own.

Assuming the dev can't change the animation, what if instead of showing the no-condom animation, it just jumped between the hidden-by-blanket and the final condom-wearing frame and altered the dialog? For example:

1) visual of putting on condom with mouth
2) animation of doggy-style sex (condom implied)
3) Jerry arrives, still image hiding under opaque blanket (his POV)
4) Dialog of Morty still being inside but very close + still image of condom penetration through blanket
5) Dialog Beth fear of him firing off inside even with condom
6) Jerry dialog, his POV (still image hiding under opaque blanket)
7) Dialog to the effect of almost getting caught pushes Morty over, cums in condom still inside Beth (still image of condom penetration
8) Jerry leaves, Beth dismounts, still image of her examining load inside condom

What I'm curious about is, do you find it "hotter" to maintain the user-selected preference (condom sex with Mom/Beth) even losing the animation, or is the actual animation "hotter" even if you have to suspend your disbelief for a scene?

A third option would be dialog about the condom slipping off while under the blanket, Beth realizing after Jerry's left and reapplying it then finishing the encounter with the doggy-style animation again.

Again, I'm just trying to understand the strength of the condom dialog/options because I also don't really get that particular user preference. I think part of it is people like condom-theme incest because it's more believable? Like, maybe family members would be more likely to consent with birth control?

It is super, super easy to change the dialog, and reusing existing still images is also pretty simple, but it's a lot harder to know if making such a change would be seen by everyone who chooses that option as a net improvement or step backwards by losing the animation.
 
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Soup_Man

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I have nothing to do with the game nor do I speak for its developer but I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts regarding customized content like this, partly as I start to dabble with creating modifications of my own.

Assuming the dev can't change the animation, what if instead of showing the no-condom animation, it just jumped between the hidden-by-blanket and the final condom-wearing frame and altered the dialog? For example:

1) visual of putting on condom with mouth
2) animation of doggy-style sex (condom implied)
3) Jerry arrives, still image hiding under opaque blanket (his POV)
4) Dialog of Morty still being inside but very close + still image of condom penetration through blanket
5) Dialog Beth fear of him firing off inside even with condom
6) Jerry dialog, his POV (still image hiding under opaque blanket)
7) Dialog to the effect of almost getting caught pushes Morty over, cums in condom still inside Beth (still image of condom penetration
8) Jerry leaves, Beth dismounts, still image of her examining load inside condom

What I'm curious about is, do you find it "hotter" to maintain the user-selected preference (condom sex with Mom/Beth) even losing the animation, or is the actual animation "hotter" even if you have to suspend your disbelief for a scene?

A third option would be dialog about the condom slipping off while under the blanket, Beth realizing after Jerry's left and reapplying it then finishing the encounter with the doggy-style animation again.

Again, I'm just trying to understand the strength of the condom dialog/options because I also don't really get that particular user preference. I think part of it is people like condom-theme incest because it's more believable? Like, maybe family members would be more likely to consent with birth control?

It is super, super easy to change the dialog, and reusing existing still images is also pretty simple, but it's a lot harder to know if making such a change would be seen by everyone who chooses that option as a net improvement or step backwards by losing the animation.
Firstly I would like to say, I'm not one to always chose the condom path, nor have any "attachment" to the option, and nor do I want to speak on behalf of the people who do. But if I were to choose any option, I would keep it as it is. As I would personally find an animation better than dialogue or static images or that of implied safe sex and even losing content as a sacrifice for choosing such an option. I find it no big deal if it's there a condom in the animation or not, it would be nice if there were, but nothing is really lost both in the story and visuals. In addition, if someone were to do low attention amination like this I would point them to other things, that need animation and add more to the game. Possibly adding more condom options with animations to the game other than this minor missing detail.

edit/addition/tangent; I must confess that I never choose the birth control option for any character, I don't know if that has any in-game effect other than dialogue, but if I may add, It would be cool if people/"partners" flat out denied sex and only offers sex with a condom due to them not being on birth control, with of course some exceptions due to the game story, but again that's my personal belief, and I find it would be too "realistic" for everyone else, effecting their enjoyment of the game.
 
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Night Mirror

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Firstly I would like to say, I'm not one to always chose the condom path, nor have any "attachment" to the option, and nor do I want to speak on behalf of the people who do. But if I were to choose any option, I would keep it as it is. As I would personally find an animation better than dialogue or static images or that of implied safe sex and even losing content as a sacrifice for choosing such an option. I find it no big deal if it's there a condom in the animation or not, it would be nice if there were, but nothing is really lost both in the story and visuals. In addition, if someone were to do low attention amination like this I would point them to other things, that need animation and add more to the game. Possibly adding more condom options with animations to the game other than this minor missing detail.
My design philosophy has been to include as much content as I can from the original, while omitting as little as possible, and enhancing (at least I think so) what/where I can. I have tried to fix a lot (or, well, at least it feels like I have?), but I can't fix everything. And I agree that while it would be nice if I could (easily) "fix" stuff such as this, a bunch of static or low frame count animations in it's place would be a poor solution for such a minor issue.

Although, this did prompt me to see if Unity Asset Extractor had an update, and to my surprise it did! A big draw of the tool is that it will (in addition to pulling out images) allow me to insert my own images! Meaning slipping on (or off) a condom would be WAY easier to do (instead of 1 frame at a time by hand).

Sadly, it still doesn't function for this game and I could neither insert, nor extract files from it. *Sigh*, still stuck changing things one frame at a time...

edit/addition/tangent; I must confess that I never choose the birth control option for any character, I don't know if that has any in-game effect other than dialogue, but if I may add, It would be cool if people/"partners" flat out denied sex and only offers sex with a condom due to them not being on birth control, with of course some exceptions due to the game story, but again that's my personal belief, and I find it would be too "realistic" for everyone else, effecting their enjoyment of the game.
At the moment, the choice to have a character take/not take birth control, is only more/less(/slightly different) dialog. It might be more than that at some point, but that is an unknown in the games future.

As to locking out scenes based on this (or really any choice) the answer is pretty much no. The choices I've put in are intended to give more options, not less. No real branching choices for this (there just can't really be with the nature of what this is). Mostly, the "on birth control" is intended to work like an in-game preference to lessen that aspect of dialog if it isn't content a player care for it (similar to the low/high incest setting).
 

WatsonTouya

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Dec 17, 2019
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Just pop this:
Python:
define config.gl2 = False
into the scripts.rpy (I put it as the first line under General Vars) to ensure it doesn't start using the model render.
Does this mess up the game somehow? I found out that you can use Live 2D in RenPy, but you have to enable "config.gl2" to True. I'd test it myself, but you kinda made me scared that'll fuck my game, so if it does mess with the game somehow, could you tell me how? Needless to say, being able to use Live 2D instead of video files would be awesome for file size and as a side effect image quality as well. Just curious because this feature would be amazing, but if there are crippling issues in it's way, then there's nothing that can be done.
 

Night Mirror

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Does this mess up the game somehow? I found out that you can use Live 2D in RenPy, but you have to enable "config.gl2" to True. I'd test it myself, but you kinda made me scared that'll fuck my game, so if it does mess with the game somehow, could you tell me how? Needless to say, being able to use Live 2D instead of video files would be awesome for file size and as a side effect image quality as well. Just curious because this feature would be amazing, but if there are crippling issues in it's way, then there's nothing that can be done.
It changes the render that renpy uses, so older systems will have trouble running the game (if the line isn't included). I've messed around with the Live2D implementation a bit and while it would be amazing for file size reduction it comes with two big issues. 1. the stuff pulled from unity doesn't seem to be directly compatible (I'm not sure I can make them work in renpy at all, it's a completely different structure). And 2. I don't know how well the animations would run, as the video files will just play, the animations will be platform/hardware dependent, so on lower end machines the animation will run worse.

I'm still looking into it, but it isn't something I plan to use yet.
 
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WatsonTouya

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so older systems will have trouble running the game
Ah, I had a feeling about that. So it's a gray area, performance vs. file size, both of which people have had gripes with for the Unity version. I was honestly scared it would straight up break the game, but you said that it's just resource intensive, so it's not as bad as I thought. But still, I'm a little curious about how big the performance impact is. My 5 year old phone can run Live 2D games at high frame rates with ease, but at the same time the amount of people who've complained about the Unity game's performance is concerning, so keeping the animations as video files seems to be for the best, unfortunately. I really want to try using Live 2D, but if I'm the only who can see my animations in their 60 fps, compressionless glory, it's not really worth it to me. I don't want 12 MBs worth of 24 fps lossy webms, or 120 MBs of 60 fps high quality webms.
: p
 
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Night Mirror

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Ah, I had a feeling about that. So it's a gray area, performance vs. file size, both of which people have had gripes with for the Unity version. I was honestly scared it would straight up break the game, but you said that it's just resource intensive, so it's not as bad as I thought. But still, I'm a little curious about how big the performance impact is. My 5 year old phone can run Live 2D games at high frame rates with ease, but at the same time the amount of people who've complained about the Unity game's performance is concerning, so keeping the animations as video files seems to be for the best, unfortunately. I really want to try using Live 2D, but if I'm the only who can see my animations in their 60 fps, compressionless glory, it's not really worth it to me. I don't want 12 MBs worth of 24 fps lossy webms, or 120 MBs of 60 fps high quality webms.
: p
There is one more big issue for Renpy Live2D and that is compatibility on some platform (copied from the Renpy site):

Warning

Live2D is not supported on the x86_64 Android platform, as a DLL is not provided for this platform. This means that it may have problems running on the Android emulator or ChromeOS.

Live2D is not supported on the web platform.

Installing Live2D on iOS requires copying the static libraries into your iOS project by hand.
And pain the ass that supporting android already is, I'd prefer not to make it worse...
 
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kimlana

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Mr NightMirror sir,

I think AutoMenu is very neat, chaining if/then statements with each jumping to the correct outcome. I'm assuming this is a patented NightMirror innovation that you came up with.

What are your thoughts on having the AutoMenu choices also populate the DoOver menu, rather than only setting those flags during each scene? For example, setting Birth Control = Yes would flip the DoOver flags for all 5 characters to Yes.

This mainly has to do with using Day Selector or Mind Blowers, because there's a lot of extra dialog (In/Out, condom and birth control) that doesn't seem to play if those flags are still at their default settings (especially for characters where there are multiple penetration events).

If there's a downside I haven't considered, perhaps as a feature request a link/button on DoOver page at the top/bottom to "Apply AutoMenu preferences to all encounters"?

Second request: If I wanted to track a variable in dialog, is there a way to apply formatting to the string itself? For example, if I replace the string "sweetie" with "{color=#ff0000}sweetie{/color}" would that cause some kind of Renpy error? Or would it get overwritten by the plain text value stored in DoOver whenever the day loads or something like that?

Thank you again.
 

Night Mirror

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Mr NightMirror sir,

I think AutoMenu is very neat, chaining if/then statements with each jumping to the correct outcome. I'm assuming this is a patented NightMirror innovation that you came up with.

What are your thoughts on having the AutoMenu choices also populate the DoOver menu, rather than only setting those flags during each scene? For example, setting Birth Control = Yes would flip the DoOver flags for all 5 characters to Yes.

This mainly has to do with using Day Selector or Mind Blowers, because there's a lot of extra dialog (In/Out, condom and birth control) that doesn't seem to play if those flags are still at their default settings (especially for characters where there are multiple penetration events).

If there's a downside I haven't considered, perhaps as a feature request a link/button on DoOver page at the top/bottom to "Apply AutoMenu preferences to all encounters"?
The AutoMenu is something I came up with for this game (I can't recall ever seeing it anywhere else, so, at least I'm pretty sure it's my own idea?), and I have to say I'm pretty proud of it. I know it's not for everyone, but like all things in the game it is an optional toggle. Although, as with all my work, I'm fine with anyone else using/improving on the idea (credit not necessary). In fact, I wish more games leaned lighter on the menu choices (especially one button menus which annoy the crap out of me).

I do see the need for a quick set feature (with so many options piling up). But there are some challenges to putting in such a system. I'll have to think on it some more. For now, Do Over does (should) handle all those flags, they just need to be individually set.

Second request: If I wanted to track a variable in dialog, is there a way to apply formatting to the string itself? For example, if I replace the string "sweetie" with "{color=#ff0000}sweetie{/color}" would that cause some kind of Renpy error? Or would it get overwritten by the plain text value stored in DoOver whenever the day loads or something like that?
You can put any formatting into text interpolation. However, renpy's input box won't let you type code. You can apply the formatting to the default in the scripts.rpy file:
Python:
default morty_pet_name="{color=#ff0000}sweetie{/color}"
For example, works just fine.
 

kimlana

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You can put any formatting into text interpolation. However, renpy's input box won't let you type code. You can apply the formatting to the default in the scripts.rpy file:
Oh, that's where all the initializations are! I tried changing individual day_00xx.rpy files but it kept getting overwritten somehow and I didn't know where it was loading the other values from. I see this is also where names and colors are set.

On that topic, the name color for The Devil #33150b seems a little dark, particularly with the shop background being brown as well. Maybe a brighter red instead like #7a3327 to match his hair? He is The Devil after all so redder red seems fitting.

I do see the need for a quick set feature (with so many options piling up). But there are some challenges to putting in such a system. I'll have to think on it some more.
I'm not good at reading code, but it seems like you have to manually enable AutoMenu on a scene-by-scene basis by creating the decision tree and matching it to global flags. But it occurs to me, you also are creating spoiler tags for scene contents, so why not use those tags as flags both for AutoMenu and in place of having to create flags locally like "condom=true" to know which graphics to show within the scene.

This is beyond the scope of your current overhaul, but if Ferdafs ends up delaying content and you are just twiddling your thumbs waiting, maybe you should think about putting content tags at the start of each scene in the code (certainly start with the major ones and work down to minor ones). Having tags in the code for each scene allows you to automatically display spoiler tags and also lets AutoMenu pick the correct choice without a hardcoded if/then chain. For example, put the "piss" tag right before any content that has that fetish. Now if Piss = No in Preferences, when someone arrives at a menu prompt, one with the piss spoiler tag and one without, AutoMenu knows to goes with the latter. If both have the piss tag, AutoMenu chooses to skip.

Such a struture would have the advantage of future-proofing. If Ferdafs adds a pregnant character event, you just add a new tag to that scene and branch in AutoMenu's decision tree and it won't need a manually set if/then else and new tracking flag ongoing.

Final comment: I agree that AutoMenu seems to be unique in that I can't recall seeing it before in other games either. However the branding isn't that great. May I suggest calling it "Movie Mode"? That I think makes its purpose and intention much more obvious. If you know what you like fetish-wise and only want plot-related choices presented (i.e. who to first kiss) then Movie Mode streamlines the experience.
 

Night Mirror

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On that topic, the name color for The Devil #33150b seems a little dark, particularly with the shop background being brown as well. Maybe a brighter red instead like #7a3327 to match his hair? He is The Devil after all so redder red seems fitting.
Updated his color.

I'm not good at reading code, but it seems like you have to manually enable AutoMenu on a scene-by-scene basis by creating the decision tree and matching it to global flags. But it occurs to me, you also are creating spoiler tags for scene contents, so why not use those tags as flags both for AutoMenu and in place of having to create flags locally like "condom=true" to know which graphics to show within the scene.

This is beyond the scope of your current overhaul, but if Ferdafs ends up delaying content and you are just twiddling your thumbs waiting, maybe you should think about putting content tags at the start of each scene in the code (certainly start with the major ones and work down to minor ones). Having tags in the code for each scene allows you to automatically display spoiler tags and also lets AutoMenu pick the correct choice without a hardcoded if/then chain. For example, put the "piss" tag right before any content that has that fetish. Now if Piss = No in Preferences, when someone arrives at a menu prompt, one with the piss spoiler tag and one without, AutoMenu knows to goes with the latter. If both have the piss tag, AutoMenu chooses to skip.

Such a struture would have the advantage of future-proofing. If Ferdafs adds a pregnant character event, you just add a new tag to that scene and branch in AutoMenu's decision tree and it won't need a manually set if/then else and new tracking flag ongoing.
I don't really see a big advantage to changing the AutoMenu system, since it is already done and working.

Final comment: I agree that AutoMenu seems to be unique in that I can't recall seeing it before in other games either. However the branding isn't that great. May I suggest calling it "Movie Mode"? That I think makes its purpose and intention much more obvious. If you know what you like fetish-wise and only want plot-related choices presented (i.e. who to first kiss) then Movie Mode streamlines the experience.
I'm happy with the name for AutoMenu. It automatically handles menu choices for the player.
 

kimlana

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i really wish the original creator updated more often :/
You can always vote with your pocketbook at his Patreon!

Actually, I wish Ferdafs would create a separate Patreon tier just for A Way Back Home because frankly I don't care at all about that League of Legends or Overwatch junk and I think people might even pay more or for higher tiers if they could vote for content requests somehow.

Ngl I love the game but seeing all this talk about the church when we're here for the ... h scenes...
Yeah but the H scenes are in a church, lol. I'm just detail-oriented/obsessed and twas my attempt to explain why they aren't synonyms.
 
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kimlana

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I don't really see a big advantage to changing the AutoMenu system, since it is already done and working.
That's understandable. It's probably that whole debate over, "is the time it would take to improve a system greater or less than the extra effort to work around its limitations." Like, what if someone didn't want to view CHUD content? AutoMenu currently plays through all of it because otherwise you'd have to take the pains to create beast+beast and beast+human flags, then insert if/then auto_menu=true statements through to check them. That just seemed to me like something you'll wrestle with every time there's a non-vanilla scene added to the original game. I wonder how Patreon would deal with giant space incest babies given that it's actual canon from the show, lol.

Incidentally, maybe I'm doing something wrong but, sometimes when I hold down <Ctrl> to fast forward through a scene, it will stop working and I have to click with my mouse button to advance before <Ctrl> works again. It doesn't seem to happen at consistent points so I wondered if it was some kind of race condition, or animation interrupting the keydown event somehow?

Thanks again for all your efforts and insights.
 
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Night Mirror

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Like, what if someone didn't want to view CHUD content? AutoMenu currently plays through all of it because otherwise you'd have to take the pains to create beast+beast and beast+human flags, then insert if/then auto_menu=true statements through to check them. That just seemed to me like something you'll wrestle with every time there's a non-vanilla scene added to the original game. I wonder how Patreon would deal with giant space incest babies given that it's actual canon from the show, lol.
For AutoMenu to not show CHUD content, there would have to be a non-CHUD path. Remember that "skip" is not a story choice, it is a player choice to avoid something they'd rather not view. AutoMenu only makes story choices. If players want to skip CHUD content, AutoMenu has to be set to off to see the skip only menus.

Incidentally, maybe I'm doing something wrong but, sometimes when I hold down <Ctrl> to fast forward through a scene, it will stop working and I have to click with my mouse button to advance before <Ctrl> works again. It doesn't seem to happen at consistent points so I wondered if it was some kind of race condition, or animation interrupting the keydown event somehow?
Odd, there is nothing in the (current) game that cancels skipping. I have noticed scenes that use image scaling (like Morty and Beth in her car, which use larger models scaled down slightly) do have a noticeable pause when loading/scaling, but they don't cancel the skip. Does this also happen for you when using tab to go into continues skip, or only with ctrl?

One of the many testing steps I do is to put the game into various AutoMenu preferences then hit tab and make sure it plays all the way through without errors.
 

kimlana

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For AutoMenu to not show CHUD content, there would have to be a non-CHUD path. Remember that "skip" is not a story choice, it is a player choice to avoid something they'd rather not view. AutoMenu only makes story choices. If players want to skip CHUD content, AutoMenu has to be set to off to see the skip only menus.
Okay I guess I misunderstood the design goal of AutoMenu then. I thought it was a way to predictively make choices based on content. Like, imagine if a page listed every possible user choice and allowed the user to pre-answer every prompt. Then basically, the scenes would play out automatically without any prompt or interruption (like a movie, hence my suggestion for Movie Mode name).

I wasn't aware that AutoMenu wouldn't choose Skip if you had certain items disabled because of the wording you used in the Tricia scene on Day 4. That scene has 2 options involving piss and one that is labeled "Run (Skip)" so I assumed that if "Piss = No" was set then AutoMenu would skip that scene. However looking at the code, I see that it's not a true skip because it actually counts as a third plot point which AutoMenu is choosing.

Obviously it would be highly taxing but in theory AutoMenu could skip content if you were convinced a more comprehensive design was needed (adding a final else to every single automenu code block with a jump to the next scene if not of the earlier elifs were satisfied). I doubt you'd be sold on that extra work unless a whole bunch of one-handed typers requested it tho.

Odd, there is nothing in the (current) game that cancels skipping. I have noticed scenes that use image scaling (like Morty and Beth in her car, which use larger models scaled down slightly) do have a noticeable pause when loading/scaling, but they don't cancel the skip. Does this also happen for you when using tab to go into continues skip, or only with ctrl?
I actually only knew about the <Ctrl> button because of that specifically spelled joke told by The Devil. I mean, "ctrl" is an obvious reference to the keyboard key so I pressed it and discovered what it does. I didn't know <Tab> has the same functionality, so I'll give that a try instead. Also, "s" seems to be the default Renpy shortcut for screenshots (I learned that trying to type a Morty pet name when Beth asked what I'd like to be called on the screen before the actual Renpy prompt).

Maybe in Preferences it might be helpful to list keyboard shortcuts? Ctrl, Tab...1-9 you already have explained in the mouseover for Hotkeys... I'm sure there are hotkeys for quick save and load... anything else? Hard to know what is Renpy and what is developer-created.

As to why it wasn't working for me, it's random enough that for all I know my <Ctrl> key is just fucky.

Thx
 
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