VN Ren'Py Ripples [v0.7.0 Public] [Jestur]

[Walter Victor]

But, hasn't the MC already changed his future? It is strongly intimated that what he did in the past saved his sister, who wouldn't even exist had he not intervened in the past.

Note that this is not a choice that the developer gives to the player. It's an essential and immutable plot point. Having multiple possible futures in this game is probably beyond the scope of anything the developer is willing to write.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

But, hasn't the MC already changed his future? It is strongly intimated that what he did in the past saved his sister, who wouldn't even exist had he not intervened in the past.

Note that this is not a choice that the developer gives to the player. It's an essential and immutable plot point. Having multiple possible futures in this game is probably beyond the scope of anything the developer is willing to write.

Not at all. It seems that he had to go there and save her, but this doesn't mean it is the first time that it happens. Like present time sister was also saved by a back in time travelling MC. The game pretty much adresses this, that you can do little things differently but the overall results remain the same. Or the MC telling Jenny about the power plant is what made her interested on it and it's what caused her to die.

 

[Hipstor]

This version has sex with the mother (vaginal)

 

[Walter Victor]

Not at all. It seems that he had to go there and save her, but this doesn't mean it is the first time that it happens. Like present time sister was also saved by a back in time travelling MC. The game pretty much adresses this, that you can do little things differently but the overall results remain the same. Or the MC telling Jenny about the power plant is what made her interested on it and it's what caused her to die.

You are getting way off into the weeds here. So, just how many times has the MC gone into the past to save his sister. And doesn't that imply that there was some point in the past where he didn't go back?

Here's the relevant code of the conversation between the MC and the mystery man:

mc "You said, \"If you care about your friends and family, you'll want to hear me out.\" What did you mean by that?"
mm "You saw Tiffany today, correct?"
mc "Yes, I did."
scene e4s12p17 with dissolve
mm "And you stopped that guy from attacking her, right?"
mc "Yeah..."
mm "She's pregnant, [playerName]. You stopped that guy before he was able to hurt her."
scene e4s12p12 with dissolve
nar "As soon as the mysterious man finishes his sentence, you remember what Jenny said on the first night you spent in 1999."
mc "WHAT!?" with vpunch
mc "Does that mean...?"
mc "Are you trying to say I saved her pregnancy? Was that baby Jessica?"
scene e4s12p18 with dissolve
mm "I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions."

 

[Pitrik]

This version has sex with the mother (vaginal)

Nothing with "mom" yet

 

[Walter Victor]

This version has sex with the mother (vaginal)

Maybe later.

 

[JaxMan]

That logic doesn't really work for time travels. Or better said, not all time travel stories use the same logic. It works for a Back to the Future kind of story, which it is much more linear (and simpler, to be honest) and assumes the first time the MC uses the time machine is the first time in that timeline. But for stories more complex like Dark do not have a clear beginning. For example, in Ripples (as far as I understand it) in our initial timeline, at the time you start the game, back in 1999 of that timeline the MC already went back and did all of the things we've seen, unlike in Back to the Future where in 1955 there hadn't been any Martin in the original timeline at the start of the movie. The main difference is that in Back to the Future you can change the future and in Dark (and presumably Ripples) you can't.


He doesn't remember because it's in his future. It happened for Scarlett but not yet for him.

And I'm of the opposite opinion, this kind of time travel logic can be much more mysterious and engaging than the plain more straightforward Back to the Future type (and it pains me to say it because is one of my favourite franchises ever, but it is what it is). If you want to see time travel taken to the extreme watch Primer.



There's a point where we must make a difference between stories where you can't change the past and those where you can. This story seems to be the first type, so if he is his own father he always was, and if he isn't he's neve been. It's not like two people can produce the exact same child, because fuck genetics then . Not even Back to the Future did this.

On this story we can safely assume you go back to the time you left, though.

I thought of that. Basically it ends up that the future has already happened. The time line is predetermined then and the MC or anyone else has no free will because everything has happened already. That's a flaw.

To change the past in a single timeline is, unfortunately, unsustainable. What prevents someone from going back and making new changes that alter events or unmaking the changes you made? So, everything has to be predetermined to not make that happen otherwise it is just chaos with a constantly altered timeline.

To me, it would have made more sense if his encounter with Luna at his house had occurred after he met her in the past, same with the photo.

It's better with a new branching timeline being created when telling a story with time travel that makes changes. The original timeline stays on course and any changes made effects just the new timeline.

 

[JaxMan]

But, hasn't the MC already changed his future? It is strongly intimated that what he did in the past saved his sister, who wouldn't even exist had he not intervened in the past.

Note that this is not a choice that the developer gives to the player. It's an essential and immutable plot point. Having multiple possible futures in this game is probably beyond the scope of anything the developer is willing to write.

Actually, you don't know that the pregnancy would not have been saved without his intervention. Without him traveling back, there might have been someone else or something else that saves it. Kind of the point the guy in mask tells him using the road accident example. No matter what, the pregnancy was saved, just now it is because of the MC.

 

[VNPlayerCalisto]

Though if the mc is the father does that mean if you don't do the routes. Some random guy would be their father.

That's impossible!!! It can be proven that the MC is his own father and not the result of your mom sleeping with "Some Random Guy".

After all your mom is a love interest and this game has no NTR tag, therefore your mom could not have slept with anyone but you.

I have just prooven that Incest is the the only logical solution!

Of course if the Main Character is your father does that mean NTRed yourself?

 

[Son of Durin]

I thought of that. Basically it ends up that the future has already happened. The time line is predetermined then and the MC or anyone else has no free will because everything has happened already.

Sort of a "Prisoner of Azkaban" thing where Harry finally realized he had the power to cast the patronus because he saw himself do it before.

Yes, I'm an over 50 male that enjoys the HP movies. I enjoy lots of things. Fuck you and your judgement!

 

[quorkboy]

" If there is only one, then any change you make in the past should propogate forward and be a fixed point in your MCs memories, as it's what you would have grown up with in the first place."
If there's only one then you can't make any changes, because anything that you do already happened in the timeline where you come from. Stories like Back to the Future where you can make youself disappear make little sense, or as you say modify your memories (which could be why the game is called Ripples, so you might be right), and technically use parallel realities sometimes, but sometimes they don't. You assume that you can make changes in the past, but this doesn't have to be the case. In fact so far it seems that you can't.

Ignoring whether or not we can change the past in Ripples, the idea that if there is only a single timeline you can't change the past is based on…? I'm not convinced we really understand time. According to physics, it is possible for two people to experience time differently, for one to barely age and experience little time passing, while another grows old. All that's required is for the first to move at close to the speed of light. Okay, so that's not so easy with our technology, but the point is that physics not only says it is possible, but that it is exactly what will happen under those circumstances.

So if time travel were possible, who is to say we could not change the past without creating alternate timelines, instead creating a new present that, from the perspective of those living in it, always was from the moment you changed the past, with only you having a memory of how it used to be? It defies common logic, but so does the idea of two people being able to move through time at different speeds because one is moving through space much faster than the other.

While Back To The Future is a silly (but very fun) story, not meant to be taken seriously, that's not the part that I think would be impossible. The impossible part would be for his actions to erase himself. Successfully erasing himself creates a paradox with no resolution. If he goes back and erases himself then he doesn't go back so is not erased so he goes back… The only possible resolution is that he goes back and fails to erase himself. Which is exactly what happens.

 

[quorkboy]

But, hasn't the MC already changed his future? It is strongly intimated that what he did in the past saved his sister, who wouldn't even exist had he not intervened in the past.

Note that this is not a choice that the developer gives to the player. It's an essential and immutable plot point. Having multiple possible futures in this game is probably beyond the scope of anything the developer is willing to write.

That didn't change anything. We can debate whether it was always him who did it, and the story may eventually give a definitive answer, but whether there was a previous version of the timeline where she was never in danger, one where someone else saved her, or it was always him, the outcome is the same.

And this is one theory of how time travel might work – that while you may do something which changes specific events, the timeline will adjust so that what happened always happens, except how it happens may change in small ways.

 

[quorkboy]

I thought of that. Basically it ends up that the future has already happened. The time line is predetermined then and the MC or anyone else has no free will because everything has happened already. That's a flaw.

It's not a flaw using the theory of time travel which says 'whatever outcomes have always happened, have always happened, though the exact details of how they happened can be affected by a time traveller'. You have free will, it's just that you are unable to effect changes which dramatically alter the future. You choose what you do, but the effects are constrained. How is not really of concern. An example is if you go back in time to kill your grandfather (an action which if you are successful creates an impossible paradox) but when you pull the trigger the gun jams, or something causes you to miss, or you're seen and stopped by someone else. Free will is not a guarantee that you get the outcome you want.

To change the past in a single timeline is, unfortunately, unsustainable. What prevents someone from going back and making new changes that alter events or unmaking the changes you made? So, everything has to be predetermined to not make that happen otherwise it is just chaos with a constantly altered timeline.

This is a major theme of the 12 Monkeys tv series – nothing prevents someone going back to alter previously altered events. While the film takes the view that time cannot be changed (the story is a loop), the series changes the past and examines how the travellers deal with the consequences, how going back to fix something they broke, or stop someone else from undoing what they did, can have unexpected effects, and how complex it is to achieve a desired result. Primer is another example of a story in which people go back repeatedly and cause chaos. The only ways to end this are either everyone decides to stop going back, or the means of time travel must be destroyed.

But there is no reason I can see to suppose this is less plausible than 'time is fixed and no matter what you do in the past nothing will change'.

To me, it would have made more sense if his encounter with Luna at his house had occurred after he met her in the past, same with the photo.

The meeting at his house did happen after they met in the past. Not for him, but for her. While the photo occurred for her before it did for him. Unlike some aspects of time travel, this one is relatively simple. They experience the same events, but some are in a different order. Her reaction relies only on her experience.

It's better with a new branching timeline being created when telling a story with time travel that makes changes. The original timeline stays on course and any changes made effects just the new timeline.

While from the point of view of people in the new timeline there is less chaos, from the perspective of the time travellers, elements of chaos are still present – they will be unable to return to their original timeline; and if you're able to change the past, chances are low that the consequences of your changes will be restricted to what you expect, unless your changes are trivial and therefore have no meaningful impact; also there will probably be two of you in your new timeline (unless the timeline corrects by erasing the other you), and none in the old (because you did not return) – and as far as the universe is concerned it is just as chaotic, with every return to the past generating new timelines in which people may wish to go back to create a new future. The only difference is they may be unaware that they're creating timelines instead of changing a single timeline.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

You are getting way off into the weeds here. So, just how many times has the MC gone into the past to save his sister. And doesn't that imply that there was some point in the past where he didn't go back?

Here's the relevant code of the conversation between the MC and the mystery man:

mc "You said, \"If you care about your friends and family, you'll want to hear me out.\" What did you mean by that?"
mm "You saw Tiffany today, correct?"
mc "Yes, I did."
scene e4s12p17 with dissolve
mm "And you stopped that guy from attacking her, right?"
mc "Yeah..."
mm "She's pregnant, [playerName]. You stopped that guy before he was able to hurt her."
scene e4s12p12 with dissolve
nar "As soon as the mysterious man finishes his sentence, you remember what Jenny said on the first night you spent in 1999."
mc "WHAT!?" with vpunch
mc "Does that mean...?"
mc "Are you trying to say I saved her pregnancy? Was that baby Jessica?"
scene e4s12p18 with dissolve
mm "I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions."

Not really, it just looks like he somehow knew the MC was the one who saved his sister in this exact moment and arranged it to happen.

I thought of that. Basically it ends up that the future has already happened. The time line is predetermined then and the MC or anyone else has no free will because everything has happened already. That's a flaw.

How is that a flaw?

To change the past in a single timeline is, unfortunately, unsustainable.

So far noone is changing anything

What prevents someone from going back and making new changes that alter events or unmaking the changes you made? So, everything has to be predetermined to not make that happen otherwise it is just chaos with a constantly altered timeline.

To me, it would have made more sense if his encounter with Luna at his house had occurred after he met her in the past, same with the photo.

It's better with a new branching timeline being created when telling a story with time travel that makes changes. The original timeline stays on course and any changes made effects just the new timeline.

What prevents you from going to the past and change some things? Technically nothing, but the fact that those things didn't happen means you didn't do them. You're technically not thinking of time travel, but a kind of warping to a parallel universe, so the MC is technically the first person ever doing the travel. However, on this kind of time travel everything that happened in 1999 has happened already in the MC's 1999, what already happend and what hasn't happened *for us* yet. At that moment when Luna freaked out future MC had already went back and talked to her even if we haven't seen it yet. You can check the show who inspired this game, Dark (really recommended) which uses this type of time travel or Primer (it's a film, but it takes tiem travel to the extreme, crazy as fuck).

Ignoring whether or not we can change the past in Ripples, the idea that if there is only a single timeline you can't change the past is based on…? I'm not convinced we really understand time. According to physics, it is possible for two people to experience time differently, for one to barely age and experience little time passing, while another grows old. All that's required is for the first to move at close to the speed of light. Okay, so that's not so easy with our technology, but the point is that physics not only says it is possible, but that it is exactly what will happen under those circumstances.

So if time travel were possible, who is to say we could not change the past without creating alternate timelines, instead creating a new present that, from the perspective of those living in it, always was from the moment you changed the past, with only you having a memory of how it used to be? It defies common logic, but so does the idea of two people being able to move through time at different speeds because one is moving through space much faster than the other.

While Back To The Future is a silly (but very fun) story, not meant to be taken seriously, that's not the part that I think would be impossible. The impossible part would be for his actions to erase himself. Successfully erasing himself creates a paradox with no resolution. If he goes back and erases himself then he doesn't go back so is not erased so he goes back… The only possible resolution is that he goes back and fails to erase himself. Which is exactly what happens.

So far this seems the type of story in which you can't change the past, I can't be sure, but it looks like it based on what happened. And things like the photo suggest that future MC went back aswell and affected the past with Scarlett. So everything points out to be that kind of story, that everything in "the loop" is set already, unlike in Back to the Future where things first happen when Marty does them. (The implication is that he could have erased himself if he failed, though, unlike on Dark).

 

[Ilhares]

like Back to the Future where you can make youself disappear make little sense, or as you say modify your memories (which could be why the game is called Ripples, so you might be right), and technically use parallel realities sometimes, but sometimes they don't. You assume that you can make changes in the past, but this doesn't have to be the case. In fact so far it seems that you can't.

well, the obvious answer is one the dev won't give us, and as is tradition, the MC is too stupid to consider doing first: Time to run DNA tests on all those girls you plan to start banging in the present to figure out if you had their mothers.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

well, the obvious answer is one the dev won't give us, and as is tradition, the MC is too stupid to consider doing first: Time to run DNA tests on all those girls you plan to start banging in the present to figure out if you had their mothers.

How would the MC explain running DNA tests on those girls?

"Excuse my, I think you might be my daughter". To an obvious same age girl

 

[Walter Victor]

How would the MC explain running DNA tests on those girls?

"Excuse my, I think you might be my daughter". To an obvious same age girl

Why would he have to explain anything? A few strands of hair, lipstick on a glass, or any number of things could be gathered surreptitiously for testing. The real problem for the MC would be financing the tests. But he doesn't have to explain squat to the testers. In fact, Ancestry.com will sell those test kits to you, so you can do the testing yourself.

 

[DougsLeftNut]

The most unbelievable thing about time travel is the spacial aspect. If you travel back or forward in time, you'd have to have a machine that doesn't just travel through the fourth dimension, but through the third, because the Earth won't be in the same place as when you left. (At least the TARDIS gets points for that one.) But that does lead to my theory that UFOs aren't actually alien craft, but time travelers entering space before making their journeys in order to come out someplace where there won't be anything in their way.

 

[DougsLeftNut]

Why would he have to explain anything? A few strands of hair, lipstick on a glass, or any number of things could be gathered surreptitiously for testing. The real problem for the MC would be financing the tests. But he doesn't have to explain squat to the testers. In fact, Ancestry.com will sell those test kits to you, so you can do the testing yourself.

Just bring back some Surge and sell it on eBay.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Son of Durin]

Why would he have to explain anything? A few strands of hair, lipstick on a glass, or any number of things could be gathered surreptitiously for testing. The real problem for the MC would be financing the tests. But he doesn't have to explain squat to the testers. In fact, Ancestry.com will sell those test kits to you, so you can do the testing yourself.

<MC checks Ancestry test instructions>

"Hey, Darci - spit in this vial."

"Er, why?"

"Well, I want to jack off later and like your lube!"

<MC ducks as Darci throws a shoe at him>