Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.10] [Vénus Noire]
It won't move forward until next year (if we are lucky). The team is now focusing on closing the side stories before moving onto the next chapter.
feelsbadman.inc
Newbie
- Aug 21, 2017
- 83
- 124
Thanks for the in-depth response, I was more joking about the power fantasy thing. If Rowan does eventually somehow comes out on top I'd want it to be as you said in which it takes a lot of effort rather then being handed to you. I'm just petty as fuck and want to get a one up on Andras.
Couple of questions (possible for the developer)
With the assortment of characters and multiple paths to play the game, do they have a specific 'number' of definitive endings in mind?
and From a support perspective, Steam or Patreon?
With the assortment of characters and multiple paths to play the game, do they have a specific 'number' of definitive endings in mind?
and From a support perspective, Steam or Patreon?
The Steam option is the better one for you financially, but it gets updated less often than patreon. So do you give money more directly to the devs for updates coming more frequently or do you accept the delay to save some cash?
Jynx_lucky_j
Member
- May 1, 2021
- 420
- 1,102
Keep in mind were are still in the 1/3 of the story so much can change by the end. That said, from what we've seen so far, I predict three broad endings, likely with various nuances depending on your choices. Ending 1 Hero Rowan: Rowan remain (mostly) true to she ideals and convictions and manages to take down the twins thus saving the world, possibly sacrificing himself in the process. Ending 2 Slave Rowan: Rowan decides he likes serving the twin, they give him all kinds of rewards and pleasure as long as he does what they tell him, so he serves the world up to them on a silver plater. Ending 3 Overlord Rowan: Rowan has decided it would be better for everyone if he was the one in charge of the world, he manages to undermine the twins and steals their whole organization out from under them, the only question is will he be a benevolent dictator or a tyrant.
I can't really speak to which is better from a support perspective. But I can say the devs are fairly responsive even to the pirates hanging out on these forums, so I would guess that either is fine. The only real differences is that the patreon gets more frequent but smaller updates, while steam gets less frequent but more substantial updates. Each steam update brings it up to speed with the current patreon update so it is never terribly far behind.
"Some cash"? The Steam version you buy once (unless they set up the other acts as DLC or new games in which case you buy it three times) while in Patreon you'd either end up paying for the next decade or so or maybe just pledge for one update month at some point during the year to get a large amount of content, you'll still get less frequent updates than Steam AND probably end up paying far more given the pace of development.
jcbchris
Member
- Dec 26, 2020
- 106
- 91
Oh my.... That is too long. All these years I tho the story will be finished in several major update and you said there's second chapter? I think im getting too old to play this amazing game the time it's finish. LoL
Kalenz123
Active Member
- Dec 13, 2018
- 609
- 1,098
Think about it like this:
By the time this is finished there will be 18 year olds who will be able to play it legally who weren't even born when this project was started
You people totally don't get it. SoC is first game of its kind a real world rogue like!Think about it like this:
By the time this is finished there will be 18 year olds who will be able to play it legally who weren't even born when this project was started
Where each generation of gamers can play one Act. You finish act 1 and bequeath your steam library to your children they finish act 2 and in turn bequeath their save data to theirs children and so game could only be finished in 3 generations of gamers!
Think of it as long time investment!
Oh I'm fully aware. I was being vague in my response to avoid drawing the ire of the SoC devs that post here. I consider patreon to be a scam, so I occasionally tend to go overboard and the devs who occasionally post here get pretty petulant about the subject.
I mean they do deliver content consistently. Their value proposition is just not at all compelling.
- Oct 17, 2017
- 1,456
- 3,490
- Oct 17, 2017
- 1,456
- 3,490
As a point of comparison, consider how much content SoC actually puts out in any given release cycle. The standard at present is 50k-60k words or so of professional quality writing, which is almost a small novel. We also pair that our CGs, which are of "genre leader" quality and come out at more then weekly.
As an overall package, the value proposition of a SoC Patreon membership is far in excess of the standard H-Game Patroen page or H-artist patreon page.
Sure, the value proposition of buying the game on steam is somewhat better even then that (by design). But, that's only because at a "Price to buy" vs "ammount of content level", Seeds of Chaos is basically sitting on a throne of skulls composed of our H-game competitors. How many others can boast more then a million words of content and hundreds of high quality CGs? I can only think of a few off the top of my head.
I've bought H-games before on steam, and I'm a patron of several of my contempoaries. Basically, no one I spend money on matches SoC in terms of raw contnet and very few match it in terms of quality. And what few do usually don't match it on reliability of update schedule either, which is definitely a point of pride for us, and in practical terms is a point of value for our consumers.
So basically, yes the value proposition of buying SoC on steam will normally beat out Patroen, provided getting the release sooner and more frequently isn't worth money to you. But, that's merely a function of the *massive* value proposition of the game on steam, not of the value proposition of the Patroen being substandard.
Now, if you want to have a conversation about patreon value in the H-game market generally, well that's a discussion that can be had. But, SoC regularly beats that value standard, and the SoC forum thread probably isn't the place for such a discussion anyway.
monk_56
Active Member
- Apr 26, 2021
- 682
- 2,869
EDIT: Turns out I was ignorant of what a "value proposition" is; which means I replied to you about something you didn't intend (the compellingness of recent content). Still- I'll leave up my questions in case anyone else wants to talk about the subject matter.
I disagree- but I am curious about your viewpoint.
Negative feedback is useless to the devs unless you qualify it- so here is your chance.
Your feedback begs the question,
What would you find narratively compelling???
Or perhaps rather what did you find narratively compelling in the game so far that you want more of?
For me the most compelling meta-plot has been Rastedel.
The least compelling has been Alexia's job arcs (its mainly just fan service; and the whole logic behind her doing the jobs she is doing is incredibly flimsy and not extrapolated upon at all; why would a logical Rowan who is resisting the twins and loves his wife send her to do any of those jobs? There tons of other things she could be doing that would be more utilitarian and less abrasive.
The logic is like: "To vaugly help Rowan / the war efforts."
She doesn't have any end goal in her jobs and she and Rowan don't talk about any main goals at all
To spy, to sabotage, to make allies, to research specific topics, to make funds ect? Who knows- it is not talked about. The job arcs are fundamentally pretty aimless.
But from the last update alone:
I found the new narrative including Werden being a total Elitist-clown compelling.
I found the Rowan vs Jezera banter, argumentation logic, and their fight scene compelling.
I find the power building in the NPC arcs compelling.
I found Alexia / Rowan coming to terms with non-mongomy (or really not) in the 3-some compelling.
I found the development of a Rowan x Cla-min romance compelling.
What I didn't find that compelling in the last update.
One off events. I still enjoyed the two hetero ones with Rowan and I like the world building in them; but they are largely just fan service to get some hot sex scenes in.
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Jynx_lucky_j
Member
- May 1, 2021
- 420
- 1,102
All joking aside, yes, this game has been in development for a long time considering the progress they made. Until somewhat recently the game’s development has been rather haphazard and without a sense of direction. Which led to a fair amount of bloat, working at cross purposes, or the creation of scenes that would later end up scrapped.
However, the developers have started making a development road map to keep them on track and limit their focus. Thus far it seems to have made a big difference and the development is proceeding much more smoothly. Would it have been nice if they had this level of forethought and planning at the beginning? It certainly would have been nice. But it is too late to change the past. At this point all that can be done is to learn from the mistakes and to do better in the future. Which they do seem to be doing.
I don’t know how long everyone else has been around. Myself it been about 9 months, but I first discovered the game on
That said, they have fairly recently brought two new writers onto the team so I think it stands to reason that we can expect the pace to pick up a bit in the future.
The reason the main story isn’t currently being advanced is because the developers want to wrap up all the loose threads they created in the past and give all the important characters the depth their patrons are demanding, before finishing up the current act. It makes sense that they wouldn’t want to start the development on the act 2 while still devoting a lot of time and resorces to tying up the loose threads and adding depth to the characters in the 1st Act that would ostensibly be finished.
Here is the latest roadmap they put out. Please note that as of this last update Cla-Min’s Arc and the Prologue Rework are complete.
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As for Patreon...
Personally I believe that nobody should subscribe to Patreon with the intention of receiving a product. I have never come across a Patreon that I felt was worth a long term investment to receive whatever product they are making. No matter what they are providing with enough time the subscription will eventually out pace the realistic value of the product. Hell, most of them you could get anything worthwhile by subscribing for one month, maybe another month here and there just to get the new stuff.
Now I am NOT saying that Patreon is a scam. All I am saying is that using it is not an effective way to purchase a product, no matter how much some people try to make it or want it to be. The purpose of Patreon is to contribute to the livelihood of creatives, so they can continue to make whatever it is they make. Any fringe benefits that a patreon may receive be should be an ancillary to that purpose.
Patreon isn’t that different from tossing a bit of change to a talented street musician every day as you pass by, and maybe if you donate a certain amount he will ask if you have any requests. Long term it would be cheaper to just buy any songs that he would cover, but that isn’t the purpose of your donations in the first place.
However, the developers have started making a development road map to keep them on track and limit their focus. Thus far it seems to have made a big difference and the development is proceeding much more smoothly. Would it have been nice if they had this level of forethought and planning at the beginning? It certainly would have been nice. But it is too late to change the past. At this point all that can be done is to learn from the mistakes and to do better in the future. Which they do seem to be doing.
I don’t know how long everyone else has been around. Myself it been about 9 months, but I first discovered the game on
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where the latest version is 0.2.47 which came out in mid 2019. And the differences between the game now and then are fairly monumental in terms or game play and writing. And even in the 9 months I’ve been playing the latest version the games continued to improve in quality dramatically. So overall I’m pretty happy with the direction the game is going in. Do I wish it was being developed faster? Sure, but that is mostly because I enjoy the game so much that I can’t wait for more content.That said, they have fairly recently brought two new writers onto the team so I think it stands to reason that we can expect the pace to pick up a bit in the future.
The reason the main story isn’t currently being advanced is because the developers want to wrap up all the loose threads they created in the past and give all the important characters the depth their patrons are demanding, before finishing up the current act. It makes sense that they wouldn’t want to start the development on the act 2 while still devoting a lot of time and resorces to tying up the loose threads and adding depth to the characters in the 1st Act that would ostensibly be finished.
Here is the latest roadmap they put out. Please note that as of this last update Cla-Min’s Arc and the Prologue Rework are complete.
---
As for Patreon...
Personally I believe that nobody should subscribe to Patreon with the intention of receiving a product. I have never come across a Patreon that I felt was worth a long term investment to receive whatever product they are making. No matter what they are providing with enough time the subscription will eventually out pace the realistic value of the product. Hell, most of them you could get anything worthwhile by subscribing for one month, maybe another month here and there just to get the new stuff.
Now I am NOT saying that Patreon is a scam. All I am saying is that using it is not an effective way to purchase a product, no matter how much some people try to make it or want it to be. The purpose of Patreon is to contribute to the livelihood of creatives, so they can continue to make whatever it is they make. Any fringe benefits that a patreon may receive be should be an ancillary to that purpose.
Patreon isn’t that different from tossing a bit of change to a talented street musician every day as you pass by, and maybe if you donate a certain amount he will ask if you have any requests. Long term it would be cheaper to just buy any songs that he would cover, but that isn’t the purpose of your donations in the first place.
Carefree247
Member
- May 24, 2019
- 311
- 639
Of course we would find Rastedel arc being the most compelling of them all as it is the result of the small choices we me made in game and shaped Rowans character and several characters resentment, desires, actions etc
1)Kharos got to have his fun and create chaos
2)The city Nobles,Elites and Aristocracy got a huge blow for being complacent and careless, puting their hubris and desires over their duties is why they are here in the first place, depending on what path you are on you could consider this as Rowan sticking it to the elites for not giving him what he was owed.
3)The Orcs get a good fight
4)Skorded and the other chaos faction gets to see Chaos rise again
5)Rowan gets to have more mates
6)The twins get power and their desire to rule,kill, pillage etc
7)Helyana/Julliet finally got Rowans love [depending on player and whatever form the writer have in store for them (・・；) ]
8)Clionha finally gets to stick it to the Solanse and hoard knowledge (and maybe own Rowan ?)
9)Nassim gets to
10)Draith gets to be pegged and away from the crazy Dark elf dominatrix
11)Patrica,Werden,Jack gets what they are owed and more(player dependednt)
12)Ameraine/Aleksi finally gets revenge and achieve a bit of their hidden goal.
I think that's all for now but I still feel the emotion during the Raid is missing more things like the pot is missing more characters interest or visit
As for Alexia, I feel we could see her arc climax later on during the story but, so far as the wife of the hero I feel she's doing fine for now as she represent what Rowan stood for and her changing also represents Rowans change in a way, at the same time she could be the foil for Rowan later when they build back their village or as an anchor to his past.
I get a weird feeling Werden wasn't supposed to go down soo easily, it just doesn't sit right I feel like we missed to remove a thorn on our side. Σ(;･益･;; )!!!
Rowan Vs Jezerra is fun when we don't get served else it's a pain to not strangle that slut.
feelsbadman.inc
Newbie
- Aug 21, 2017
- 83
- 124
I have a quick question for the game since I've been putting a couple hours in and haven't gotten too far. Is Andras the only character that has more of a focus on humiliating Rowan when Alexia and Andras are in an NTR relationship? Because that's really the only thing that bothers me in most NTR in which it focuses on humiliation (bigger penis, ect.) so if the other options for Alexia don't really focus on that aspect I'd rather go that route.