Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.10] [Vénus Noire]

[diebesgrab]

Greetings to you as well!

That is just false. There are thousands of games where you play a 175cm luffy looking kid who is skinny as a rail and lives with his mom; who is also somehow an "alpha male" with a horses dick.

I was staying out of this, but I’m sorry, are you implying 175cm is small? Bruce Lee was 172cm. Humphrey Bogart was 173. Chuck Norris is 175cm.

Regardless of height concerns, my image of Rowan is a lean, tough, rangy man. His muscles aren’t big, but they’re dense and well developed—he has the frame of a swimmer or a long distance runner, lots of slow-twitch muscle fiber. He’s built more like a wolf than a lion. I think you’d find that most common soldiers in the pre-modern world tended more towards that kind of build than a body-builder type—the day to day work of a campaigning soldier before engine-driven transit would generally have been medium intensity over long periods, not high intensity over short periods, which is what tends to build muscle volume.

As to how that’s depicted in the art... like Jynx said, the art is fairly inconsistent in how it depicts the characters, unfortunately, even discounting the multiple art styles. Sommy’s tends to be a bit on the buff side, and momdadno’s tends to be on the skinny side, but neither tends to draw every piece entirely on model, even to their own visions of the characters—which is fine, considering how much art they’re both putting out every month for the game.

As for giving the player the option to make a change to his build going forward? That seems pretty phenomenally unlikely due to the fact that not only would this introduce more states for the writers and coders to keep track of, it would also increase the number of CG variations that would be necessary for virtually every event. This is why, for instance, persistent pregnant and futa states for some characters, despite being highly requested, are also unlikely.

It’s fine if you’re not into Rowan’s appearance, but I think his being skinnier than Andras and the orcs is entirely intentional, and very unlikely to change. I think the best you can reasonably hope for is more consistent depictions going forward. If you dislike momdadno’s skinnier depictions, since Sommy is now responsible for finishing all the art, we won’t be seeing more of them. If you think Sommy’s depictions of Rowan are still too small, then I suppose you can either ignore them or stay unhappy.

 

[monk_56]

I was staying out of this, but I’m sorry, are you implying 175cm is small? Bruce Lee was 172cm. Humphrey Bogart was 173. Chuck Norris is 175cm.

Regardless of height concerns, my image of Rowan is a lean, tough, rangy man. His muscles aren’t big, but they’re dense and well developed—he has the frame of a swimmer or a long distance runner, lots of slow-twitch muscle fiber. He’s built more like a wolf than a lion. I think you’d find that most common soldiers in the pre-modern world tended more towards that kind of build than a body-builder type—the day to day work of a campaigning soldier before engine-driven transit would generally have been medium intensity over long periods, not high intensity over short periods, which is what tends to build muscle volume.

As to how that’s depicted in the art... like Jynx said, the art is fairly inconsistent in how it depicts the characters, unfortunately, even discounting the multiple art styles. Sommy’s tends to be a bit on the buff side, and momdadno’s tends to be on the skinny side, but neither tends to draw every piece entirely on model, even to their own visions of the characters—which is fine, considering how much art they’re both putting out every month for the game.

As for giving the player the option to make a change to his build going forward? That seems pretty phenomenally unlikely due to the fact that not only would this introduce more states for the writers and coders to keep track of, it would also increase the number of CG variations that would be necessary for virtually every event. This is why, for instance, persistent pregnant and futa states for some characters, despite being highly requested, are also unlikely.

It’s fine if you’re not into Rowan’s appearance, but I think his being skinnier than Andras and the orcs is entirely intentional, and very unlikely to change. I think the best you can reasonably hope for is more consistent depictions going forward. If you dislike momdadno’s skinnier depictions, since Sommy is now responsible for finishing all the art, we won’t be seeing more of them. If you think Sommy’s depictions of Rowan are still too small, then I suppose you can either ignore them or stay unhappy.

What we think is tall is rather relative to where you are from- but yeah; where I am 175 cm is quite a bit under the average male height and I would say it is short.

But I think its relational height that is more relevant to scene enjoyment for me- It'd be cool if Rowan wasn't like basically the same size as a lot of the gals.

I'm well aware permanent changes are unlikely for the reasons you listed- but I can hope / maybe there could be some one off events like for the other characters where he got a power-up or something.

I'll hope for more in general- despite knowing you are basically right. I do like Sommliers work much better than MDMs. Maybe Sommlier will throw me some bones. My guess is I'll just have to stay disappointed though.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Most of the pieces cited are collaborations between MDN and Sommy. This is a drum beat I return to a lot, but the majority of art in the game works on something akin to a comic book, where MDN does the first black and white piece with the composition and Sommy turns that into the finished product.

Regarding Rowan acting more domininant, I plan for a pretty significant dominant story path for the Liurial finale. For obvious reasons.

 

[monk_56]

Most of the pieces cited are collaborations between MDN and Sommy. This is a drum beat I return to a lot, but the majority of art in the game works on something akin to a comic book, where MDN does the first black and white piece with the composition and Sommy turns that into the finished product.

Regarding Rowan acting more domininant, I plan for a pretty significant dominant story path for the Liurial finale. For obvious reasons.

Right...its a great arc. But like....sadly after this months release Liurial is done. Then what. A full year of Rowan mostly getting dommed by everything and cuckoldry plots? We all know how both of those twins arcs will go. Shit is getting a little old.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

175 cm (or 5 ft 8.8) in seems to be pretty close to average in the English speaking world.

You must be registered to see the links	175.6 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links	175.1 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	175.3 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	175 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	177 cm (5 ft 10 in)
You must be registered to see the links	175.3 cm (5 ft 9 in)

I suspect that Rowan was designed to generally to be very average in appearance.

There aren't really that many places that are "signifgantly" taller on average. (I'm defining significant as at least 2 inches taller)

You must be registered to see the links	185.6 cm (6 ft 1 in)
You must be registered to see the links	183.9 cm (6 ft 1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	183.8 cm (6 ft 1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	182.9 cm (6 ft 0 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	182 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	182 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.5 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.3 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.2 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.2 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.7 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links You must be registered to see the links	180.6 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.4 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.4 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.3 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	180.3 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	179.9 cm (5 ft 11 in)

You must be registered to see the links

 

[SpoiledPrince]

Some people apparently need Rowan to be a raging roidbeast to have a complete power (fantasy) trip. Thing is, muscles nowadays are merely for showing off and don't translate into practicality. If you have ever seen any documentaries about hunting-gathering tribes living on their own, none of their men (or women, for what it matters) look anything like the gym-exhibition crew.
They chase prey, throw javelins, carry immense weight on their head, back and/or shoulders... They get to do a lot of physical work and consume calories efficiently, covering their daily needs, and don't look like a bunch of skinned gorillas, but rather achieve graceful, harmonious bodies that fulfill a purpose. Something natural and beautiful.

There's also a misconception about the kind of physique you need to move an armor, as it's designed to distribute its weight all over the man wearing it, and being articulated offers great freedom of movement. Those 20, 23 kilos move like a breeze. The main issue comes with the under armor padded protection, that it's often kind of thick and tends to get wet and uncomfortable with sweat. That's what fills the armor, not ox-like muscles.
Even with the 40 kilos armor+supplies package that some of the Roman legionaries had to endure for 20 km a day under some emperors, people were not grunting macho behemoths, just average-Joes with stamina built from resignation, duty, and ordinary ranch, not protein shakes.

Then we've got the other thing. You can be a perfectly good Dom without looking like a bodybuilder. Seriously. I'd even go the extra mile and say that those who rely on mere imposing physicality are often taken for unrefined, boring cavemen in the scene. The "me strong, you weak. Submit grrrowl!" gets old in a couple of sessions. It's not primal, but basic... And basic always means "easily replaceable", pal.
You don't build a pack/harem like that.

Rowan is a versatile character in every sense of the word, and that is perfect

 

[monk_56]

Some people apparently need Rowan to be a raging roidbeast to have a complete power (fantasy) trip. Thing is, muscles nowadays are merely for showing off and don't translate into practicality. If you have ever seen any documentaries about hunting-gathering tribes living on their own, none of their men (or women, for what it matters) look anything like the gym-exhibition crew.
They chase prey, throw javelins, carry immense weight on their head, back and/or shoulders... They get to do a lot of physical work and consume calories efficiently, covering their daily needs, and don't look like a bunch of skinned gorillas, but rather achieve graceful, harmonious bodies that fulfill a purpose. Something natural and beautiful.

There's also a misconception about the kind of physique you need to move an armor, as it's designed to distribute its weight all over the man wearing it, and being articulated offers great freedom of movement. Those 20, 23 kilos move like a breeze. The main issue comes with the under armor padded protection, that it's often kind of thick and tends to get wet and uncomfortable with sweat. That's what fills the armor, not ox-like muscles.
Even with the 40 kilos armor+supplies package that some of the Roman legionaries had to endure for 20 km a day under some emperors, people were not grunting macho behemoths, just average-Joes with stamina built from resignation, duty, and ordinary ranch, not protein shakes.

Then we've got the other thing. You can be a perfectly good Dom without looking like a bodybuilder. Seriously. I'd even go the extra mile and say that those who rely on mere imposing physicality are often taken for unrefined, boring cavemen in the scene. The "me strong, you weak. Submit grrrowl!" gets old in a couple of sessions. It's not primal, but basic... And basic always means "easily replaceable", pal.
You don't build a pack/harem like that.

Rowan is a versatile character in every sense of the word, and that is perfect

I mean- sure. I'd like to have a power fantasy where Rowan is larger than his partners and looks powerful in bed- just like you'd like to have whatever fantasy you'd like; feels like that is pretty fair. A lithe average joe by the sounds of it.

I was talking about what I find hot- not what helps you be a good back-packer or soldier or what-not. Lets be candid, realism is only a cursory concern in SoC.

I'll admit my post was a bit word-vomity about my general frustrations with Rowan as the MC; so it'd be easy to think I meant being dominant and size were intrinsically linked. But as you said, obviously, you can be a good Dom while still being small- though a larger stronger body can help; or hurt apparently.

Talking about domination was more related to how submissive his content generally is- not his stature. I can't remember the last time they added an event where Rowan tried to fight back against the twins even the tiniest bit past just trying to deal with their general bullshit when they harass him. He is so fucking passive. Feels like he isn't even trying sometimes. Doesn't try to fight back, doesn't try to protect his wife. Just rolls over and takes it. I guess we can count the intro rework; its something- that was pretty badass; until he got bitch slapped .

 

[Oriandu]

Some people apparently need Rowan to be a raging roidbeast to have a complete power (fantasy) trip. Thing is, muscles nowadays are merely for showing off and don't translate into practicality. If you have ever seen any documentaries about hunting-gathering tribes living on their own, none of their men (or women, for what it matters) look anything like the gym-exhibition crew.
They chase prey, throw javelins, carry immense weight on their head, back and/or shoulders... They get to do a lot of physical work and consume calories efficiently, covering their daily needs, and don't look like a bunch of skinned gorillas, but rather achieve graceful, harmonious bodies that fulfill a purpose. Something natural and beautiful.

There's also a misconception about the kind of physique you need to move an armor, as it's designed to distribute its weight all over the man wearing it, and being articulated offers great freedom of movement. Those 20, 23 kilos move like a breeze. The main issue comes with the under armor padded protection, that it's often kind of thick and tends to get wet and uncomfortable with sweat. That's what fills the armor, not ox-like muscles.
Even with the 40 kilos armor+supplies package that some of the Roman legionaries had to endure for 20 km a day under some emperors, people were not grunting macho behemoths, just average-Joes with stamina built from resignation, duty, and ordinary ranch, not protein shakes.

Then we've got the other thing. You can be a perfectly good Dom without looking like a bodybuilder. Seriously. I'd even go the extra mile and say that those who rely on mere imposing physicality are often taken for unrefined, boring cavemen in the scene. The "me strong, you weak. Submit grrrowl!" gets old in a couple of sessions. It's not primal, but basic... And basic always means "easily replaceable", pal.
You don't build a pack/harem like that.

Rowan is a versatile character in every sense of the word, and that is perfect

Yeah, ironically enough the most "replaceable" male character in the game would probably be Andras. Of course he won't be, but he doesn't exactly seem very... imaginative when it comes to his prowess in the sack.

 

[monk_56]

Yeah, ironically enough the most "replaceable" male character in the game would probably be Andras. Of course he won't be, but he doesn't exactly seem very... imaginative when it comes to his prowess in the sack.

Just go down to the Barracks and find another Orc and its done. Simple as that.

That said; he is very attractive- unlike Rowan... and that means a lot when you are trying to enjoy a porn game. Too bad I hate NTR....

 

[Oriandu]

I don't know what universe you're living in, dude, but Rowan is about as perfect a male specimen as you're going to find. Calling him unattractive is laughable. Rowan is in great physical shape, has a nice face, and good dick. I don't know what you're looking for in your men, but Rowan would be considered gorgeous by traditional standards.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Right...its a great arc. But like....sadly after this months release Liurial is done. Then what. A full year of Rowan mostly getting dommed by everything and cuckoldry plots? We all know how both of those twins arcs will go. Shit is getting a little old.

I'm doing Helayna next. There will be some expansions on the Rowan doesn't Claim Helayna story variant.

But, if you like Rowan-dom and "Rowan builds a powerbase" story beats, I can't imagine Helayna would be your issue.

 

[monk_56]

I don't know what universe you're living in, dude, but Rowan is about as perfect a male specimen as you're going to find. Calling him unattractive is laughable. Rowan is in great physical shape, has a nice face, and good dick. I don't know what you're looking for in your men, but Rowan would be considered gorgeous by traditional standards.

I think I was pretty clear when I descibed him as small. Sensitive subject for some I suppose- but I find short effeminite men pretty unattractive. Rowan is pretty jacked in some of the cgs- and he looks good with smaller partners- but is pretty slim/small in comparison to some of the gals; and looks either great or really kinda pathetic in the stuff with his wife- depends on the art. Different tastes man- I don't have to be from a different universe to find someone attractive or unattractive- its not like there is a universially madated divine rule determining it

 

[monk_56]

I'm doing Helayna next. There will be some expansions on the Rowan doesn't Claim Helayna story variant.

But, if you like Rowan-dom and "Rowan builds a powerbase" story beats, I can't imagine Helayna would be your issue.

What ratioes are those contents? Trying to make a finacial dection and I hate the non-Rowan side of the Hel plot.

 

[T51bwinterized]

What ratioes are those contents? Trying to make a finacial dection and I hate the non-Rowan side of the Hel plot.

I haven't wrote it, so not sure. Overall, most of the new content is not going to the unclaimed arc.

A fair bit is actually going to the claimed but mindless segment, which is wildly underwritten. Also rewrites everywhere, the conclusion of the post-locr declaration Helayna training arc, and the long awaited Alexia/Helayna event.

But also some expansions on the Unclaimed arc to make the pathway from that to Helayna escape smoother.

 

[monk_56]

I haven't wrote it, so not sure. Overall, most of the new content is not going to the unclaimed arc.

A fair bit is actually going to the claimed but mindless segment, which is wildly underwritten. Also rewrites everywhere, the conclusion of the post-locr declaration Helayna training arc, and the long awaited Alexia/Helayna event.

But also some expansions on the Unclaimed arc to make the pathway from that to Helayna escape smoother.

Okay- fair enough. Man- tough decision for me. Sometimes it feels like the content you write is the only stuff I truly like in the game- and if i'm losing like 40% of the one route I like in the upcoming releases to a rape pathing I dislike that would be pretty meh. Also- I have negative interest in that futa event.

Thanks for your candor.

 

[Carefree247]

Some people apparently need Rowan to be a raging roidbeast to have a complete power (fantasy) trip. Thing is, muscles nowadays are merely for showing off and don't translate into practicality. If you have ever seen any documentaries about hunting-gathering tribes living on their own, none of their men (or women, for what it matters) look anything like the gym-exhibition crew.
They chase prey, throw javelins, carry immense weight on their head, back and/or shoulders... They get to do a lot of physical work and consume calories efficiently, covering their daily needs, and don't look like a bunch of skinned gorillas, but rather achieve graceful, harmonious bodies that fulfill a purpose. Something natural and beautiful.

There's also a misconception about the kind of physique you need to move an armor, as it's designed to distribute its weight all over the man wearing it, and being articulated offers great freedom of movement. Those 20, 23 kilos move like a breeze. The main issue comes with the under armor padded protection, that it's often kind of thick and tends to get wet and uncomfortable with sweat. That's what fills the armor, not ox-like muscles.
Even with the 40 kilos armor+supplies package that some of the Roman legionaries had to endure for 20 km a day under some emperors, people were not grunting macho behemoths, just average-Joes with stamina built from resignation, duty, and ordinary ranch, not protein shakes.

Then we've got the other thing. You can be a perfectly good Dom without looking like a bodybuilder. Seriously. I'd even go the extra mile and say that those who rely on mere imposing physicality are often taken for unrefined, boring cavemen in the scene. The "me strong, you weak. Submit grrrowl!" gets old in a couple of sessions. It's not primal, but basic... And basic always means "easily replaceable", pal.
You don't build a pack/harem like that.

Rowan is a versatile character in every sense of the word, and that is perfect

I mean- sure. I'd like to have a power fantasy where Rowan is larger than his partners and looks powerful in bed- just like you'd like to have whatever fantasy you'd like; feels like that is pretty fair. A lithe average joe by the sounds of it.

I was talking about what I find hot- not what helps you be a good back-packer or soldier or what-not. Lets be candid, realism is only a cursory concern in SoC.

I'll admit my post was a bit word-vomity about my general frustrations with Rowan as the MC; so it'd be easy to think I meant being dominant and size were intrinsically linked. But as you said, obviously, you can be a good Dom while still being small- though a larger stronger body can help; or hurt apparently.

Talking about domination was more related to how submissive his content generally is- not his stature. I can't remember the last time they added an event where Rowan tried to fight back against the twins even the tiniest bit past just trying to deal with their general bullshit when they harass him. He is so fucking passive. Feels like he isn't even trying sometimes. Doesn't try to fight back, doesn't try to protect his wife. Just rolls over and takes it. I guess we can count the intro rework; its something- that was pretty badass; until he got bitch slapped .

I think Monk56 frustration is understandable from 2 PoV , the first is personal preference and the other is the backstory, I really find it hard to believe that someone who went through hardships and lead people in a bloody war can so easily be meek and easily stepped on, while for some situation like Xal's and Cliohna character arc I can understand the others are fanservice like for me.

I'm doing Helayna next. There will be some expansions on the Rowan doesn't Claim Helayna story variant.

But, if you like Rowan-dom and "Rowan builds a powerbase" story beats, I can't imagine Helayna would be your issue.

HERESEY !
on that note since we are talking about Helayna does her arc take place before or after Liuriel ? from what happens to Liuriel I think it's best it happens after as Rowan has time to explore his Dom side before dealing with her.

 

[monk_56]

HERESEY !

on that note since we are talking about Helayna does her arc take place before or after Liuriel ? from what happens to Liuriel I think it's best it happens after as Rowan has time to explore his Dom side before dealing with her.

1) Agreed.... fuckin' HERESY bro. Rowan needs a deep route with a female character- all his hetero routes are short af / diluted AF by rape content- while Andras x Alexia is literally 10-15% of the fucking games art content.

2) The chronology of the various potential Dom vibed routes - Draith, Liurial, and Hel can basically be done in any order. I don't think there is currently coding to indicate if Rowan has become a competent dom in any of the routes- though obviously there was an event centered around that concept in the Liurial plot-line. Maybe Winter will add something like that as part of the Hel content?

Draith's is pretty streamlined since most of it activates from the room menu- but maybe week restricted? Starting Hel's is restricted by number of weeks (its like 34 or something)- Liurial's is restricted by requiring multiple weekend event procs. So its kinda luck of the draw as to which one you get first.

Maybe there will be some tie ins or hoops later in development- but currently they can be done basically in any order.

(As a Caveat- Liurial is the only proper dom route, Hel's plot never got there and Draith is more of just like a kinky slut than a sub- he just kinda fucks every man he can get his hands on; there isn't really much of a sub/dom vibe or contract at play- despite Rowan saying "Draith is his" and the collar play ect.)

 

[T51bwinterized]

Draith is closer to a "bottom" then a sub, at least within current context.

 

[diebesgrab]

Draith is closer to a "bottom" then a sub, at least within current context.

The real question is: Whose bottom is he near? The public demands to know, Winter!

 

[T51bwinterized]

Kill besgrab