Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.10] [Vénus Noire]

[T51bwinterized]

Still working with Yron Vol? I do love his designs and writing Shame there hasn't been development on The Eternal Feast much afaik I used to be a Patreon supporter. Anyhow, can't wait to see more of the Old Ways - I'll certainly support Lord Arioch's patreon if I enjoy the update.

I doubt it. Yron has disappeared into the ether as far as I'm aware. Also, it's not "there hasn't been much development" (paraphrased) but rather "there has been no development" for that other game. The team essentially acquired the rights to that project but nothing's been done with it in those years since. The group over at Venus Noire are focusing development on this game and Jessika's Curse respectively. Besides, most people are far more interested in Arioch's flagship game and it generates far more interest and income than anything else for them. Man, I still remember Patreon posts lamenting about SoC being created at a loss(!), and now look how far it's come from those wild, early days while adding new team members along the way!

We actually didn't acquire the rights to it either. We instead offered to step in and help with development during the last days of the project. Some members of our staff stepped in to help, but Yron basically vanished off the face of the earth soon afterwards and hasn't been seen in 4 years.

We aren't developing Eternal Feast, nor do we have any particular plans to at this time. That was Yron's project and we were just helping out. Absent his return, you can consider Eternal Feast dead.

 

[Back]

We aren't developing Eternal Feast, nor do we have any particular plans to at this time. That was Yron's project and we were just helping out. Absent his return, you can consider Eternal Feast dead.

Maybe y'all should remove that project off y'all's sites -- including Patreon and your main website. It obviously still generates confusion with users thinking that there will be future plans for Eternal Feast down the line, as demonstrated here recently. In any event, we're wishing you guys all the best. Cheers!

 

[T51bwinterized]

Oh Back remind me which of the plotlines you were invested in. It's been awhile since we spoke.

 

[Radicallity]

Well that was a fairly rapid change in topics.

 

[Back]

Oh Back remind me which of the plotlines you were invested in. It's been awhile since we spoke.

To be honest, it's been at least two years since I last played, but I try to keep tabs on SoC to keep up with the news. In fact, I might just fire it up soon.

I tend to play a mostly uncorrupted Rowan and Alexia that occasionally like to spice things up with others. I think they're a sweet couple that tries their best and to support each other (if one plays it that way) even in the dire straits they find themselves in. It's a story I love exploring and seeing how it evolves along with their relationship. I actively avoid any homosexual and futa content in large part (regardless of gender) as that's simply not my jam but will respect and won't disparage anyone that enjoys such content. (I've heard that the Xy events can be endearing so I might just give that a try on the next run despite Xy's... uh, "endowments".) Hmm, but off the top of my head (minor spoilers ahead) I'm interested in how things have developed on the goblin front, how far Alexia can grow as a spellcaster, and where and how Helenya and certain other characters will mark their reappearance in the next arc. Oh, and Nemesis. Always curious if the once-hinted Nemesis system will ever appear in the game one way or another. ^^'

Softlocked
I do recall that I was stop dead in my tracks in my last solid, semi-blind playthrough a couple years ago. A playthrough where I just rolled with the punches in the face of any RNG -- be they successes or failures -- with NO reloads or rollbacks. Had a good time but still ran into several bugs in that run. This included a loyal and upright Rowan (through random events) losing his primary weapon with no way to replace it while Cla-Min's shop was down for rework. As I recall, upon reaching Orcaid, that playthrough was effectively softlocked as progress could not be made without a weapon. I believe a workaround for it was put in during the May update where a player can simply accept Cla-Min's offer (which now repeats) but that shoehorns a player's freedom of choice.

You must be registered to see the links

By the way everyone, did you guys know that Steam is having its annual summer sale right now? SoC is currently discounted during that time (until July 7th) in case anyone is interested in picking the game up from there. Alrighty y'all, cheers and take care. Stay awesome!

Edit: Oh, and monster girls! I dig 'em. I mean, who doesn't, right?

 

[T51bwinterized]

To be honest, it's been at least two years since I last played, but I try to keep tabs on SoC to keep up with the news. In fact, I might just fire it up soon.

I tend to play a mostly uncorrupted Rowan and Alexia that occasionally like to spice things up with others. I think they're a sweet couple that tries their best and to support each other (if one plays it that way) even in the dire straits they find themselves in. It's a story I love exploring and seeing how it evolves along with their relationship. I actively avoid any homosexual and futa content in large part (regardless of gender) as that's simply not my jam but will respect and won't disparage anyone that enjoys such content. (I've heard that the Xy events can be endearing so I might just give that a try on the next run despite Xy's... uh, "endowments".) Hmm, but off the top of my head (minor spoilers ahead) I'm interested in how things have developed on the goblin front, how far Alexia can grow as a spellcaster, and where and how Helenya and certain other characters will mark their reappearance in the next arc. Oh, and Nemesis. Always curious if the once-hinted Nemesis system will ever appear in the game one way or another. ^^'

Softlocked
I do recall that I was stop dead in my tracks in my last solid, semi-blind playthrough a couple years ago. A playthrough where I just rolled with the punches in the face of any RNG -- be they successes or failures -- with NO reloads or rollbacks. Had a good time but still ran into several bugs in that run. This included a loyal and upright Rowan (through random events) losing his primary weapon with no way to replace it while Cla-Min's shop was down for rework. As I recall, upon reaching Orcaid, that playthrough was effectively softlocked as progress could not be made without a weapon. I believe a workaround for it was put in during the May update where a player can simply accept Cla-Min's offer (which now repeats) but that shoehorns a player's freedom of choice.

You must be registered to see the links

By the way everyone, did you guys know that Steam is having its annual summer sale right now? SoC is currently discounted during that time (until July 7th) in case anyone is interested in picking the game up from there. Alrighty y'all, cheers and take care. Stay awesome!

Edit: Oh, and monster girls! I dig 'em. I mean, who doesn't, right?

We're actually starting a new major event chain for uncorrupted Alexia's with a high relationship to Rowan. With the intent of giving more pure non-NTR players stuff to do. Helayna Rework is also starting right around now and is going to have some good stuff, including for pure players.

It is worth mentioning that X'z does corrupt the couple, so they don't stay so much pure-pure on that event chain.

Nemesis system was mostly a casualty of the game shakeup around 2018 where we determined that a full six realm open world wasn't feasible. Likewise, magic-Alexia is on the chopping block of soon to be cut content, because we don't have a good way to make the game account for that variable. But, we do know folks are intirested in it, and we want to find a way to bring it back for Act 2 in a way that's more feasible, if we can.

 

[EricKeldrev]

We actually didn't acquire the rights to it either. We instead offered to step in and help with development during the last days of the project. Some members of our staff stepped in to help, but Yron basically vanished off the face of the earth soon afterwards and hasn't been seen in 4 years.

We aren't developing Eternal Feast, nor do we have any particular plans to at this time. That was Yron's project and we were just helping out. Absent his return, you can consider Eternal Feast dead.

I wish there was a way for me to download the eternal feast. I can't find a download file anywhere.

 

[diebesgrab]

We're actually starting a new major event chain for uncorrupted Alexia's with a high relationship to Rowan. With the intent of giving more pure non-NTR players stuff to do. Helayna Rework is also starting right around now and is going to have some good stuff, including for pure players.

It is worth mentioning that X'z does corrupt the couple, so they don't stay so much pure-pure on that event chain.

Nemesis system was mostly a casualty of the game shakeup around 2018 where we determined that a full six realm open world wasn't feasible. Likewise, magic-Alexia is on the chopping block of soon to be cut content, because we don't have a good way to make the game account for that variable. But, we do know folks are intirested in it, and we want to find a way to bring it back for Act 2 in a way that's more feasible, if we can.

I for one would definitely like to see Alexia’s magical potential continue on in the game. I know maybe this isn’t even really a significant plot thread at the moment, but even more than the Jezera path, I’d ultimately really like to see a corrupted Alexia independent of the twins or a corrupted Rowan, controlling her own (and perhaps others’) destiny, and she’s not gonna have much of a leg to stand on if she doesn’t even have that modicum of potential to fall back on.

 

[Yandere Lust]

We're actually starting a new major event chain for uncorrupted Alexia's with a high relationship to Rowan. With the intent of giving more pure non-NTR players stuff to do. Helayna Rework is also starting right around now and is going to have some good stuff, including for pure players.

It is worth mentioning that X'z does corrupt the couple, so they don't stay so much pure-pure on that event chain.

Nemesis system was mostly a casualty of the game shakeup around 2018 where we determined that a full six realm open world wasn't feasible. Likewise, magic-Alexia is on the chopping block of soon to be cut content, because we don't have a good way to make the game account for that variable. But, we do know folks are intirested in it, and we want to find a way to bring it back for Act 2 in a way that's more feasible, if we can.

I saw the pictures for the Nemesis scenes online. They looked pretty interesting. It's a shame to hear a way was never came up with as to how to include the character/narrative behind them. Likewise for magic Alexia. Having a more active role with Alexia sounds so appealing too. Kind of wish there was a route that would put Alexia more front and center where something like that could come into play. Like, you know, hypothetically, if there ever was a point where things could end up in such a way where you could take a more leading role with Alexia due to reasons, I probably would want to explore such a route. Just saying.

Speaking of passing curiosities, I recall a mention of a certain underground machine that could, supposedly, dabble in chaos magic to, hypothetically, change a person's sex, if they were so willing. Was this just mentioned for the sake of it being mentioned, or, might there be some teeny tiny ray of sunshine that such an application of such a machine could potentially come into play based on player decisions and circumstances (etc.) in regard to say, Rowan?

 

[T51bwinterized]

The essential problem is. What lots of people have expressed interest in is Alexia using magic to gain agency. Which is, to say, a whole ass variable that needs to be accounted for every single scene in the game. Reviewing literally hundreds of Alexia scenes to add magic variables. And it would be a half assed attempt too, since to really deliver on the fantasy it would need to produce major variants in the events where Alexia's use of magic shifted the story's movement somehow.

And I can definitly see the appeal of adding in a variable like that, in terms of giving the player the chance to shape the story in a way they really enjoy. I can also see that to do it right, you'd need untold tens of thousands of words. perhaps even more. A massive development sink for a core staff member (someone who knows the material inside and out) for a large chunk of time.

Can't do it that way. Too hard. And if we did it without doing that, then half the logic of the scenes she's in wouldn't make sense or else her magical abilities would feel pointless or unaffecting.

Basically, I'm as down as anyone else for a magic Alexia plotline. But, if we did it, we'd need to do it right. And we just can't do it right with how things are with act 1 ATM.

Edit: As an aside, this is another area where you have to consider exponential growth in variables. That is, without any "bottlenecking" adding mutually exclusive variables with multiply the total content. But, adding non-mutually exclusive variables expontentially increasing total content.

Consider, right now, Alexia can be Rowan-Loyal, Jezera-Loyal, or Andras Loyal. This produces three content variants which if given their own entire segment, would triple the per-scene word count. But, Alexia doesn't just have that variable axis. She also has Low, Medium, High Corruption. Further, many scenes with Alexia feature Rowan.

So many scenes with Alexia already look like this:

Andras -A!High- R!Low
Andras - A!High - R!-Medium
...etc...etc..etc...

For a total of 27 possible Rowan x Alexia relationship states.

Now, in practice we dont' write remotely close to that much, because we don't give each variable entirely seprate text. Instead, we pin-point where the text can merge and "bottleneck" it back together. Theoretically, you can bottleneck as aggresively as you want. But, the more aggresive the bottlenecking the less substantial a variable feels. So as a writer in interactive fiction you need to be balancing the need for substantial variables (which inherently increase player engagement) vs the need to not die by workload.

Half the problem with the original Alexia Library Magic plan was that it would be done as a non-mutually exclusive variable. So, take the 27 possible Rowan x Alexia states above. Now, *double* it based on if Alexia is magic or not. You wind up with a whopping 54 substantial variables then and there. With more secondary variables like Feudalism, Alexia's Job Location, and Rowan relationship with side cast members that might produce smaller variables.

But, imagine for a second that we just ignored that and we didn't include ANY of those variables for magic Alexia. Well, we're in trouble. Because is Pure Alexia and Corrupt Alexia never going to use magic in diffrent situations? Are we not including magic in Andras/Jezera variable segments or their personal scenes? What about Rowan? Is Rowan going to respond the same way to magic Alexia in every version of it?

So it's not just that Alexia is in a ton of scenes. She is. It's also that she she's easily one of the HARDEST charachters to add a non-mutually exclusive variable at this point because all of her scenes are already so stuffed with variables that it makes Rowan x Alexia scenes into something of a meme among the staff as "the hardest shit to write".

 

[Yandere Lust]

The essential problem is. What lots of people have expressed interest in is Alexia using magic to gain agency. Which is, to say, a whole ass variable that needs to be accounted for every single scene in the game. Reviewing literally hundreds of Alexia scenes to add magic variables. And it would be a half assed attempt too, since to really deliver on the fantasy it would need to produce major variants in the events where Alexia's use of magic shifted the story's movement somehow.

And I can definitly see the appeal of adding in a variable like that, in terms of giving the player the chance to shape the story in a way they really enjoy. I can also see that to do it right, you'd need untold tens of thousands of words. perhaps even more. A massive development sink for a core staff member (someone who knows the material inside and out) for a large chunk of time.

Can't do it that way. Too hard. And if we did it without doing that, then half the logic of the scenes she's in wouldn't make sense or else her magical abilities would feel pointless or unaffecting.

Basically, I'm as down as anyone else for a magic Alexia plotline. But, if we did it, we'd need to do it right. And we just can't do it right with how things are with act 1 ATM.

Edit: As an aside, this is another area where you have to consider exponential growth in variables. That is, without any "bottlenecking" adding mutually exclusive variables with multiply the total content. But, adding non-mutually exclusive variables expontentially increasing total content.

Consider, right now, Alexia can be Rowan-Loyal, Jezera-Loyal, or Andras Loyal. This produces three content variants which if given their own entire segment, would triple the per-scene word count. But, Alexia doesn't just have that variable axis. She also has Low, Medium, High Corruption. Further, many scenes with Alexia feature Rowan.

So many scenes with Alexia already look like this:

Andras -A!High- R!Low
Andras - A!High - R!-Medium
...etc...etc..etc...

For a total of 27 possible Rowan x Alexia relationship states.

Now, in practice we dont' write remotely close to that much, because we don't give each variable entirely seprate text. Instead, we pin-point where the text can merge and "bottleneck" it back together. Theoretically, you can bottleneck as aggresively as you want. But, the more aggresive the bottlenecking the less substantial a variable feels. So as a writer in interactive fiction you need to be balancing the need for substantial variables (which inherently increase player engagement) vs the need to not die by workload.

Half the problem with the original Alexia Library Magic plan was that it would be done as a non-mutually exclusive variable. So, take the 27 possible Rowan x Alexia states above. Now, *double* it based on if Alexia is magic or not. You wind up with a whopping 54 substantial variables then and there. With more secondary variables like Feudalism, Alexia's Job Location, and Rowan relationship with side cast members that might produce smaller variables.

But, imagine for a second that we just ignored that and we didn't include ANY of those variables for magic Alexia. Well, we're in trouble. Because is Pure Alexia and Corrupt Alexia never going to use magic in diffrent situations? Are we not including magic in Andras/Jezera variable segments or their personal scenes? What about Rowan? Is Rowan going to respond the same way to magic Alexia in every version of it?

So it's not just that Alexia is in a ton of scenes. She is. It's also that she she's easily one of the HARDEST charachters to add a non-mutually exclusive variable at this point because all of her scenes are already so stuffed with variables that it makes Rowan x Alexia scenes into something of a meme among the staff as "the hardest shit to write".

Perhaps it's something that you could invest in for Act 1, and have it play out more in Act 2, but only for select scenes that were significant? Or, and, maybe this is a bit too wild of a suggestion, since players seem to widely like Alexia with magic, just make her developing magical powers the true canon destiny of her, and just have it apply to all her scenes going forward in Act 2. If it just was a thing that would always end up happening, you could then, potentially, base more gameplay around it, right? Since, you wouldn't need to worry about a major mechanical part of the game being tossed aside if a player didn't happen to pick up magic... If you just made it so she would always get magic by Act 2 one way or the other, well, that would simplify things, right? At the very least, if you asked people about it, you could see if more people would like a magic Alexia vs. a non magic one going forward, if it had to be one or the other, and see where people stand on that. It's just an idea though if no other solution has really come about in regard to it.

 

[T51bwinterized]

There's a lot more ways it can be done in act 2 then in act 1. But, let's just say that at least for Act 1, the ship has sailed for magic Alexia.

 

[Yandere Lust]

There's a lot more ways it can be done in act 2 then in act 1. But, let's just say that at least for Act 1, the ship has sailed for magic Alexia.

I don't think that idea or ideas in general that have come up for Act 1 that had some excitement being pushed to Act 2 would be that big of a deal. If anything, it would give at least a few specific things to look forward to in Act 2 in addition to what's completely unknown. Why, perhaps doing so would even ensure Act 2 is even more well received than Act 1. Seeing as the game is planned to have at least 3 Acts, it's reasonable that not just 1 Act would cram every popular or semi-popular desire into it. That's fair to say, right?

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

There's a lot more ways it can be done in act 2 then in act 1. But, let's just say that at least for Act 1, the ship has sailed for magic Alexia.

I'm with Yandere Lust on making magic Alexa canon Alexa in Act 2. That would eliminate the branch multiplication issue right there.

 

[johlem]

There's a lot more ways it can be done in act 2 then in act 1. But, let's just say that at least for Act 1, the ship has sailed for magic Alexia.

and why not a necklace or bracelet which seals or unseals alexia's magic as needed and which would be controlled by one of the twins (or another npc)?
This would allow to continue the plot of an Alexia using magic while justifying the fact that she does not use it in each scene (and therefore without multiplying the number of variables exponentially)

 

[rivon]

You must be registered to see the links

.......So Helayna will be delayed again now to finish Goblin sub plot?
May i ask how long it will take? two updates ? three?

You must be registered to see the links

 

[T51bwinterized]

No. Current plan is to work on both simultaneously. Realistically, it may make the Hel plot releases slower because there's only so many manpower hours. But I'm not pushing or shelving it.

 

[TheDisgracedOne]

Having an Alexia femdom path would truly be perfect for the game, with jazeera and alexa as both queens for the ending, and the mc as their main slave.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

I would be happy to see a dominant path for Alexia where she stands up to the twins instead of either trying to avoid them or rolling over and becoming a sub to one of them.

 

[lifegetsweird]

The essential problem is. What lots of people have expressed interest in is Alexia using magic to gain agency. Which is, to say, a whole ass variable that needs to be accounted for every single scene in the game. Reviewing literally hundreds of Alexia scenes to add magic variables. And it would be a half assed attempt too, since to really deliver on the fantasy it would need to produce major variants in the events where Alexia's use of magic shifted the story's movement somehow.

And I can definitly see the appeal of adding in a variable like that, in terms of giving the player the chance to shape the story in a way they really enjoy. I can also see that to do it right, you'd need untold tens of thousands of words. perhaps even more. A massive development sink for a core staff member (someone who knows the material inside and out) for a large chunk of time.

Can't do it that way. Too hard. And if we did it without doing that, then half the logic of the scenes she's in wouldn't make sense or else her magical abilities would feel pointless or unaffecting.

Basically, I'm as down as anyone else for a magic Alexia plotline. But, if we did it, we'd need to do it right. And we just can't do it right with how things are with act 1 ATM.

Edit: As an aside, this is another area where you have to consider exponential growth in variables. That is, without any "bottlenecking" adding mutually exclusive variables with multiply the total content. But, adding non-mutually exclusive variables expontentially increasing total content.

Consider, right now, Alexia can be Rowan-Loyal, Jezera-Loyal, or Andras Loyal. This produces three content variants which if given their own entire segment, would triple the per-scene word count. But, Alexia doesn't just have that variable axis. She also has Low, Medium, High Corruption. Further, many scenes with Alexia feature Rowan.

So many scenes with Alexia already look like this:

Andras -A!High- R!Low
Andras - A!High - R!-Medium
...etc...etc..etc...

For a total of 27 possible Rowan x Alexia relationship states.

Now, in practice we dont' write remotely close to that much, because we don't give each variable entirely seprate text. Instead, we pin-point where the text can merge and "bottleneck" it back together. Theoretically, you can bottleneck as aggresively as you want. But, the more aggresive the bottlenecking the less substantial a variable feels. So as a writer in interactive fiction you need to be balancing the need for substantial variables (which inherently increase player engagement) vs the need to not die by workload.

Half the problem with the original Alexia Library Magic plan was that it would be done as a non-mutually exclusive variable. So, take the 27 possible Rowan x Alexia states above. Now, *double* it based on if Alexia is magic or not. You wind up with a whopping 54 substantial variables then and there. With more secondary variables like Feudalism, Alexia's Job Location, and Rowan relationship with side cast members that might produce smaller variables.

But, imagine for a second that we just ignored that and we didn't include ANY of those variables for magic Alexia. Well, we're in trouble. Because is Pure Alexia and Corrupt Alexia never going to use magic in diffrent situations? Are we not including magic in Andras/Jezera variable segments or their personal scenes? What about Rowan? Is Rowan going to respond the same way to magic Alexia in every version of it?

So it's not just that Alexia is in a ton of scenes. She is. It's also that she she's easily one of the HARDEST charachters to add a non-mutually exclusive variable at this point because all of her scenes are already so stuffed with variables that it makes Rowan x Alexia scenes into something of a meme among the staff as "the hardest shit to write".

Soo... as someone who's almost exclusively interested in the Alexia-Andras path, I'm slightly worried that there just isn't a lot of room to continue the path without creating situations like the one you talk about here. At this point (imo) the story sort of screams for Alexia to start openly changing for Andras, i.e. for her to either start wearing the revealing dress in all situations, or to magically grow her breasts, or to pierce her nipples, etc. but I understand this would duplicate the art workload for scenes involving her and thus is probably a big no-no. What are your thoughts on that? I really, really like this path, I think you've done an awesome job with it, but from the outside looking in I wonder if it can really reach a satisfying conclusion.