Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.11a Patreon] [Vénus Noire]

[baneini]

I wonder whats the optimal spread of content. Who is going to support a project where only 10% of the content pleases them? Why not instead support a project that does 11-100% content that pleases you?
I'd say vast majority of the content has to appeal 1 market that then supports the game because they get meaningful updates. Like 60% minimum. Casting a wide net is never the optimal way to make money. Pick your market.

Another point is that narrowing the focus allows more consistent characters. The gay scenes kinda ruin the mc's characterization. "Everyone's bi-sexual and has a magic penis to cast a wide net", well okay it's not just positive, you lose something important alongside it too.

 

[T51bwinterized]

We will continue to pursue out content for fans who enjoy male on male content. We have no plans to stop. In fact, we hope to expand our M/M content more in the future.

We will also continue to provide contents for straight fans. I have been serious about this statement in the past and will continue to insist this. We will never take seriously the argument of straight only players who want to remove M/M content, because we have a sizeable audiece of players who enjoy M/m...so sizeable as to actually pay for the M/m content all by themselves. We will not be removing that content from the game full stop. Ever.

We much prefer a productive convenient about what people like or dislike about the content in the game, and affirmative things people want to see. If you want more of Rowan as a pitcher, Rowan as a Dom, Rowan as a sub, Alexia as a Dom/sub/slut/unicorn.

You will never ever convince us that a segment of our user base is illegitimate just because you want 6 straight or F/F scenes per month instead of 5.

 

[Emilee Teresta]

We will continue to pursue out content for fans who enjoy male on male content. We have no plans to stop. In fact, we hope to expand our M/M content more in the future.

We will also continue to provide contents for straight fans. I have been serious about this statement in the past and will continue to insist this. We will never take seriously the argument of straight only players who want to remove M/M content, because we have a sizeable audiece of players who enjoy M/m...so sizeable as to actually pay for the M/m content all by themselves. We will not be removing that content from the game full stop. Ever.

We much prefer a productive convenient about what people like or dislike about the content in the game, and affirmative things people want to see. If you want more of Rowan as a pitcher, Rowan as a Dom, Rowan as a sub, Alexia as a Dom/sub/slut/unicorn.

You will never ever convince us that a segment of our user base is illegitimate just because you want 6 straight or F/F scenes per month instead of 5.

For the love of god and all that is holy, please please please have Andras impregnate Alexia, then have Rowan cry when he finds out about it. Then after the birth have the smug Andras force Rowan to be the babysitter of his new cuckold-born baby.

 

[revan335]

Winter and Rein thank you for engaging with the community here. I had another question about the game's future content. I know there was some art going around about that one blonde futa nemesis that Rowan was going to deal with. As there hasn't been much male on futa content in the game, will Rowan be able to turn her into his sub much like he has that Liural?

 

[T51bwinterized]

For the love of god and all that is holy, please please please have Andras impregnate Alexia, then have Rowan cry when he finds out about it. Then after the birth have the smug Andras force Rowan to be the babysitter of his new cuckold-born baby.

I'm not going to comment on this one directly per say besides saying...well...most of the writing team and Arioch himself are stated fans of impregnation. Do with that fact whatever you will.

Winter and Rein thank you for engaging with the community here. I had another question about the game's future content. I know there was some art going around about that one blonde futa nemesis that Rowan was going to deal with. As there hasn't been much male on futa content in the game, will Rowan be able to turn her into his sub much like he has that Liural?

That art, I believe, was a leak. So I can't comment on the art leak specifically. That said, we very much have not solidified all of our plans in relation to that character. If there specific segments of content people would want to see for her in particular, you are free to bring it up and it will be reviewed. We do read feedback. But, I can't answer that one just yet.

 

[baneini]

We will also continue to provide contents for straight fans. I have been serious about this statement in the past and will continue to insist this. We will never take seriously the argument of straight only players who want to remove M/M content, because we have a sizeable audiece of players who enjoy M/m...so sizeable as to actually pay for the M/m content all by themselves.

In an alternate universe where SoC team decided on a narrower focus to cater to straight male audience, do you think they gained more support or less? The straight male audience is simply much larger, with an incremental increase in value for that market the gains are largest. Creating content for them is the best way to make the largest amount of people happy and make the most money, I would guess. Like if you just do the math "Theres 50 times larger audience for scene type X than Y, at what point does making a scene Y make financial sense?". Maybe there's some point, but it's not obvious.

I'm talking about a peak, the optimal, best possible outcome for everyone etc. You might not value the same thing which is fine, some people value things other than monetary success. However I'd advocate for a narrow focus if your goal is to make the best possible game.

 

[dancecommander12]

That art, I believe, was a leak. So I can't comment on the art leak specifically. That said, we very much have not solidified all of our plans in relation to that character. If there specific segments of content people would want to see for her in particular, you are free to bring it up and it will be reviewed. We do read feedback. But, I can't answer that one just yet.

I just love super aggressive F/F with a surprise cock thrown in. Get her all hot and bothered with some safe foreplay, and then take advantage of her surprise when she sees what's down below to ravage her holes. Before the poor sub even knows what's going on the dom is fucking her brains out and about to shoot a hot load of potent spunk in her.

 

[T51bwinterized]

In an alternate universe where SoC team decided on a narrower focus to cater to straight male audience, do you think they gained more support or less? The straight male audience is simply much larger, with an incremental increase in value for that market the gains are largest. Creating content for them is the best way to make the largest amount of people happy and make the most money, I would guess. Like if you just do the math "Theres 50 times larger audience for scene type X than Y, at what point does making a scene Y make financial sense?". Maybe there's some point, but it's not obvious.

I'm talking about a peak, the optimal, best possible outcome for everyone etc. You might not value the same thing which is fine, some people value things other than monetary success. However I'd advocate for a narrow focus if your goal is to make the best possible game.

You're wrong for two simple reasons.
1. The competition for the straight male audience is larger too. There is a sizable audience of players who enjoy M/M content and are undeserved. Most of what does exists is targeted narrowly to female fans of M/M. It's a business 101 mistake. You shouldn't just calculate market size but also saturation.
2. You also need to consider that the addition of a new content type is not equivalent in value to more of what already exists. As a result of diminishing returns, the value of a single extra M/F or F/F scene every two months has a much smaller effect on the dial then expanding the audience category dramatically. Also, based on polling we've done the number is quite a bit larger then 2%.

You made these points on a utilitarian as well as economic basis. I will simply point out that the same logic applies. The positive effect had from making those scenes M/M outweighs an equivalent amount of M/F or F/F because of saturation both within the game itself and within the H-games as a whole.

For further reading:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[dancecommander12]

@T51bwinterized

I'm curious as to whether you're sitting on any other big piles of art that you haven't used yet.

 

[T51bwinterized]

To continue my point from above, what you're doing is completely ignoring the supply side of a supply/demand curve. If what you said was true, it would never be optimal to target anything at all a smaller market segment over a bigger one. Every TV show would hyper specialize narrowly on the group of people who watch the most tv all in the same genre and towards the same demogrphic.

It misses the basic logic of economics. Outside of areas with a hyper compelling reason not to expand audience share, adding width to your demographic expands total potential. The reason not to do it is only in instances where breaking the mold of specialization is not feasible based on entry costs, specific branding concerns, or competition in outside spheres. This is not the case for us.

@Rein you want to expand on this?

 

[baneini]

market size but also saturation.

2. You also need to consider that the addition of a new content type is not equivalent in value to more of what already exists. As a result of diminishing returns, the value of a single extra M/F or F/F scene every two months has a much smaller effect on the dial then expanding the audience category dramatically.

I would argue that the market for well drawn 2dcg, in a western game is not saturated at all. 3dcg is. Your game is distinguishable from the mass of low effort porn games. Your game is one of a few in your niche. And I think the games main focus being M/F means you are indeed competing for that audience (and succeeded mostly thanks to quality art), I think you then need to prioritize them and compete even more harshly.

Polling can be a result of having gay scenes in and asking an established fanbase, people wanting content thats rare in general might be more vocal about it because they're more emotional/vested in it. You also have to consider stuff like are people exclusively into that content or are they merely ok with it and not really care.

 

[desmosome]

If people are opposed to seeing Draith x Rowan or Andras x Rowan or Rowan x Dwarf-dude on the grounds of 'Homosexuality', yet have absolutely no problem with seeing Jezera x Whore-lady... they will only earn my laughter.

After all, if you must hate 'Gays/Homosexuals', you should hate them equally. Otherwise, you are likely a hypocrite with double-standards.

In this way, I Ironically have more respect to proper 'Anti-homosexual' people, than I do for supposedly 'Anti-homosexual' people who see no problem with Lesbians/Lesbian-porn or letting 'Lesbians' slip off 'their radar'.

In which case, I don't really care if the Seeds of Chaos team manage to anger the 'Anti-homosexual' crowd, which as I speak probably won't raise questions/raise a hissy-fit towards lesbian characters being in the game, but will instead likely be fuming over 'Faggots are ruining mah game' et cetera, because I would then derive a sense of somewhat ironic humour out of the situation, and I thrive on humour.

I would also probably subsist myself on eating popcorn at that point whilst I am watching the debacle go down. I have had occasion to eat popcorn in this thread itself at some points, and I have also espoused poetry on a few occasions.

There is nothing hypocritical about hetero males finding lesbian sex erotic while male/male action disgusting. You are trying to be too SJWish(sorry for the term) or politically correct in your assertions. Straight males will generally find the female form appealing so F/F is fine, but would get instant boner kill with male/male. Its pretty much that simple. Its really not some kind of political statement or something. That said, where they might cross the line and turn into one of your "anti-homosexual" people would be if they are obnoxiously demanding removal of gay content or whatever. The devs did a good job making sure that all of the controversial fetishes are optional. If you dont like male/male stuff just make the right choice to bypass it.

Basically, what im getting at is that any kind of sexual preference is a valid one, and everyone should just respect each other. In the end, its the devs who make the choice on what to include anyways. Unless you are a patron with a dev that is open to suggestions on game direction, it doesnt matter at all if you dont like certain fetishes. If it doesnt suit your taste, you are not obligated to play it.

 

[TreebeardTheEnt]

Personally, the economics of the "issue" are irrelevant to me, my problem stems from a lack of consistent characterization. When everyone does anything with anyone, everyone is the same but with a different aesthetic. That's a major negative for me, as the story and characters of a given experience are what interest me.

 

[playerdude]

For the love of god and all that is holy, please please please have Andras impregnate Alexia, then have Rowan cry when he finds out about it. Then after the birth have the smug Andras force Rowan to be the babysitter of his new cuckold-born baby.

that's all nice and good for people that are into ntr and stuff, but as long as that's a possible route, and not an definite route.

i'd sooner behead Andras and Alexia both if such a thing did happen once Rowan finally takes control from the twins and defeats them. Rowan does not need to put up with such shit especially since he has so many women that want him. i'm just waiting for when he dethrones the twins, kills Andras (and Alexia if she does get pregnant by Andras), makes Jezera one of his many willing breeding bitches, then he becomes the one true ruler of Bloodmeen Castle. have Clionha figure out if it's possible for humans and goblins and ogres to breed, if so, then Rowan breeds Cla-Min and her daughters, if not, have Cliohna study to find out how to make it possible, breed Cliohna, Liurial, Helayna, meet up with that group of heroes that had that magician girl, and enslave her and breed her alongside with the rest, breed Tarish, meet up with the freed Lady Delane again and this time claim her for yourself and breed her. have Rowan then make deals with the dark elves and unlike the last time in where Jezera beheads a possible ally, Rowan does the talking and succeeds in favorable negotiations due to his large army he has amassed until now at this point. have Rowan breed Shaya, that tavern lady (forgot her name), that Succubus lady in Inner Sanctum. have Rowan have one giant harem and breed all of them and more (i'm quite a fan of breeding and impregnations as well), and have him not share.

and for those that are into male/male, have Rowan go and claim that fey sissy Nileth for his own and have Rowan go to town on his ass, and mouth, probably with Daggertongue as well together as an option. we need way more Nileth, i really liked him a lot. more bottom Draith. we need way more feminine looking sissies overall wanting to be claimed by Rowan. more chances with Cla-Bow for those that are interested in him.

 

[Emilee Teresta]

that's all nice and good for people that are into ntr and stuff, but as long as that's a possible route, and not an definite route.

i'd sooner behead Andras and Alexia both if such a thing did happen once Rowan finally takes control from the twins and defeats them. Rowan does not need to put up with such shit especially since he has so many women that want him. i'm just waiting for when he dethrones the twins, kills Andras (and Alexia if she does get pregnant by Andras), makes Jezera one of his many breeding bitches, then he becomes the one true ruler of Bloodmeen Castle. have Clionha figure out if it's possible for humans and goblins and ogres to breed, if so, then Rowan Breeds Cla-Min and her daughters, if not, have Cliohna study to find out how to make it possible, breed Cliohna, Liurial, Helayna, meet up with that group of heroes that had that magician girl, and enslave her and breed her alongside with the rest, breed Tarish, meet up with the freed Lady Delane again and this time claim her for yourself and breed her. have Rowan then make deals with the dark elves and unlike the last time in where Jezera beheads a possible ally, Rowan does the talking and succeeds in favorable negotiations due to his large army he has amassed until now at this point. have Rowan breed Shaya, that tavern lady (forgot her name), that Succubus lady in Inner Sanctum. have Rowan have one giant harem and breed all of them and more (i'm quite a fan of breeding and impregnations as well), and have him not share.

and for those that are into male/male, have Rowan go and claim that fey sissy Nileth for his own and have Rowan go to town on his ass, and mouth, probably with Daggertongue as well together as an option. we need way more Nileth, i really liked him a lot. more bottom Draith. we need way more feminine looking sissies overall wanting to be claimed by Rowan. more chances with Cla-Bow for those that are interested in him.

It's all about choices. NTR should not be forced. Futa should not be forced (I don't like futa). Furry stuff should not be forced. Gay stuff should not be forced. Etc. Give people a choice to disable what they don't like.

 

[Hekzow]

That art, I believe, was a leak. So I can't comment on the art leak specifically.

All six pictures were posted on momdadno's official tumblr account and I believe are still there.

 

[TheSexinati]

For the love of god and all that is holy, please please please have Andras impregnate Alexia, then have Rowan cry when he finds out about it. Then after the birth have the smug Andras force Rowan to be the babysitter of his new cuckold-born baby.

Meanwhile, in the other corner of the castle.

Rowan and Jezera's adorable blue baby: "Waaaaaaaaaaaah!"

Jezera: "It's so cuuuuute"

Rowan: "Yeah, I know right."

*Andras enters Jezera's room with his adorable red baby in his hands.*

Andras: "What the fuck!"

*Rowan grins*

Rowan: "Hey man, Quid pro quo."

There is nothing hypocritical about hetero males finding lesbian sex erotic while male/male action disgusting. You are trying to be too SJWish(sorry for the term) or politically correct in your assertions. Straight males will generally find the female form appealing so F/F is fine, but would get instant boner kill with male/male. Its pretty much that simple. Its really not some kind of political statement or something. That said, where they might cross the line and turn into one of your "anti-homosexual" people would be if they are obnoxiously demanding removal of gay content or whatever. The devs did a good job making sure that all of the controversial fetishes are optional. If you dont like male/male stuff just make the right choice to bypass it.

Well, having seen people who were 'vehemently' anti-homosexual on various sites talking soo much shit about homosexual content, but seemingly have no problem with lesbians... It gets quite overwhelmingly humorous after a while.

You see, I am not sprouting some bullshit SJW agenda (I do however support Social justice, but not in some vile manner), nor am I some Far-leftist moron. I have absolutely no problem with people liking F/F content, or straight people, and I certainly do get your point.

What I unequivocally do have a problem with (And what you have mentioned), Is the moment when 'straight' people start sprouting shit about "Faggots are ruining Muh game!" without giving a single thought about how, when they are opposing homosexuality on the grounds of homosexuality, are forgetting that Lesbians are also 'Dykes', yet they never raise the torch to the lesbians. No body 'lynches' the Lesbians in some written diatribe or other... No, it is always the 'Faggots' who have to go.

And thus, if you see it from my point of view, you will see hypocrites as far as the eye can see.

This, is my point. And this is why, when people start raising statements similar to what is stated above, that is where I derive some humour. In their vehement dislike of the 'Homosexuals', they will near-inevitably use double-standards to explain their position against homosexuality.

"Oh, Lesbians aren't gay. That's totally not gay!"

Which is funny, in the same way that people defend traps.

"Liking Traps isn't gay, it totally isn't gay!"

But gays... homosexual males.

"Faggots are ruining muh game!"
"Lets go kill all the faggots!"

And thus, one reaches an Orwellian level of 'double-think' (In that they dislike Homosexuals, but also enjoy Homosexuals, dislike Gays, but like Lesbians), to think away their woes, castigating people for their enjoyment of two people liking the dick, whilst enjoying two chicks merely scissoring it out for their visual enjoyment. This is where I infer that, people who raise the above sentiments, generally tend to be, you guessed it, Hypocrites.

As for political correctness. I undress it, douse it in gasoline, piss on it, and set the bitch on fire with a match. Political correctness, is the death of logic and reason. Certainly, if I were under the pretenses of being PC, I wouldn't be using Faggot or Dyke in this conversation, now, would I? Nor would I mention the casual undressing, pissing on and burning of a bullshit concept.

Political correctness is a crutch for morons with a rather overwhelmingly big desire for Authoritarianism.

But, George Carlin explains this best.

Edit: Additionally, I find it funny that you are asserting that I am a "acting like a SJW", when you do not know 'anything' about me. I don't know anything about you, I don't know you as a person and I don't know your opinions et cetera. Even if I did, I would not act out in any way malicious, and I certainly wouldn't infer things about you or label you, because I, unlike many people in the world, pride myself on my integrity, and on my belief in 'civil' discussion, and all that such entails. You may say of this, as you will, insult me as you will.

I certainly am not going to soil your name, nor will I insult you as a man/woman/attack-helicopter, and I won't insult you by putting words in your mouth, nor to add words where that do not need to be there. I may insult your character, and I may insult you as a person, but I will not insult your name. So do not add words down my throat and Infer that I am being something of which I am not, or of an agenda, of which I am not, nor of a group affiliation, of which I am not. Because then, where will the basis of 'civility' go? When you may label me, but I shall not label you?

So, to reiterate, I am not a 'Social Justice Warrior', nor was I, through my actions, being 'Social Justice Warrior-ish', I don't have an agenda. What I am, is biased, but that is merely a part of the human condition, and what I am, is human.

Additionally, I would be a terrible SJW. for you see, I am white and guilty of so many sins. Sins of which I have not committed myself, but of which I am guilty regardless. And so, you can see why I would be a terrible SJW. Not to mention, most SJW's are hypocrites also, and it is a hard choice between choosing whether the Anti-gays or the SJW's are more hypocritical. Because fucking hell.

If you feel that you must throw words or labels to your 'opposition', or infer that I am acting in a certain way, what you should call me is a pessimist, or perhaps a cynic. When people start saying that I am acting in a way, of which I know I am not, I think I can justify myself for being within this league.

Not to mention, with the amount of Anti-gay comments I have seen in my life. A fair amount of pessimism/cynicism, is... I feel, quite a healthy response.

If I have to be called a 'SJW' for expressing my viewpoint that 'Anti-gay' people generally tend to be hypocrites, I shall continue to do so. I believe in equality. Even if that equality means that both Gays and Lesbians should be equally mis-judged by unsavory people. At least those Homophobes aren't hypocritical.

 

[TheMagister]

Another point is that narrowing the focus allows more consistent characters. The gay scenes kinda ruin the mc's characterization. "Everyone's bi-sexual and has a magic penis to cast a wide net", well okay it's not just positive, you lose something important alongside it too.

You decide how consistent your characters are. You want Rowan to be a heterosexual male? Only pick scenes where he bangs a chick. Literally every scene basically gives you a prompt "Do you really want to get nasty with this person? Do you? Are you suuuuuuuure? Are you really really really sure? Really?".

You can play Rowan as a sex-addict, a loyal husband, a sissy fag, or a pussy-slayer. It's up to you.

 

[Rein]

Man I am so not getting into that discussion. All I say is this:

It’s 2018. Anybody who has a problem with the fact that somewhere out there in the world there are gay people doing jolly gay things, and that somewhere in their games and movies and books there are also gay people doing jolly gay things - is going to have an interesting experience with reality in the years to come. (Unless they live in the middle east or Asia, then they probably might get away with their very... respectable views for some more years).

Now, moving on, I wanted to comment on something.

Another point is that narrowing the focus allows more consistent characters. The gay scenes kinda ruin the mc's characterization. "Everyone's bi-sexual and has a magic penis to cast a wide net", well okay it's not just positive, you lose something important alongside it too.

This is a well said point, and it has not escaped the writing team. While by design both Alexia and Rowan are at the very least bi-curious, other characters have more defined sexualities. A downright silly amount of time is spent debating:
- What is a specific character interested in sexually?
- Under what circumstances could character X fuck character Y?

We try to keep characterisation consistent, though with 4 writers on the team, each with varying content preference, it can sometimes be a bit of a challenge, especially as the amount of events increase over time.

If anybody here knows of any scenes where characterisation is glaringly inconsistent, they can point the out, and I’ll toss to them to my personal review “To do” list.

 

[Pseudonymous Pervert]

We will continue to pursue out content for fans who enjoy male on male content. We have no plans to stop. In fact, we hope to expand our M/M content more in the future.

We will also continue to provide contents for straight fans. I have been serious about this statement in the past and will continue to insist this. We will never take seriously the argument of straight only players who want to remove M/M content, because we have a sizeable audiece of players who enjoy M/m...so sizeable as to actually pay for the M/m content all by themselves. We will not be removing that content from the game full stop. Ever.

We much prefer a productive convenient about what people like or dislike about the content in the game, and affirmative things people want to see. If you want more of Rowan as a pitcher, Rowan as a Dom, Rowan as a sub, Alexia as a Dom/sub/slut/unicorn.

You will never ever convince us that a segment of our user base is illegitimate just because you want 6 straight or F/F scenes per month instead of 5.

Well, regardless of the content of a given scene, there generally speaking needs to be more dominant Rowan content. Also more of the elf-slut getting fucked by Rowan, because you can never have too much elf-slut.