Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.11a Patreon] [Vénus Noire]

[homer2026]

where is the raeve keep?

 

[Pseudonymous Pervert]

Honey I'm saving her with mah diiiiiiiiiiiiick.

Funny, but him having an ulterior motive doesn't change the rather obvious issue that he has very good reasons for fucking and claiming Helayna that do not necessarily apply with any of the other people he can cheat on his wife with.

 

[LittleBigYaoi]

Any more Andres x Rowen scenes?

 

[aesir150]

I have no problem with Alexia getting mad at Rowan and not sleeping with him whenever she finds out about his infidelity. I love the fact the game allows you to have choices and then there are consequences.

I am just confused / curious on what is going on in the game though. Cause through my experiment it seems like Rowan x Alexia scenes are just RNG regardless of who you slept with. At the same time after playing the game more and advancing further into the story with Heylana I suspect that Rowan could possibly be having sex with characters off screen that we aren't seeing. Cause in Heylana's narrative there was one point where she says just knowing the fact that he will comeback and fuck her once a week is enough to keep her loyal to him. So @Rein are we suppose to assume that Rowan and Alexia has sex life offscreen that we're just not seeing? Or are we to just assume Heylana is the only exception of off screen sex life Rowan has?

I just want to know for narrative wise?

 

[aesir150]

Honey I'm saving her with mah diiiiiiiiiiiiick.

Hey if women can destroy entire countries and armies in real life with just their "sword sheaves" as the game puts it... then why can't some fictional character save a few individuals with his meat sword?

But yeah the option for Rowan to basically say that comes a bit too often in this game... like when Alexia confronts him about Liurial why would even say that to Alexia. He saved her from being harassed, but there was no need to actually fuck her. The argument he makes about this don't make any sense... cause if he claims he needs to fuck her to prevent other people from raping her... then wouldn't he need to public announce that he has claimed her for his own to have the desired effect? Meaning wouldn't Alexia know about it right away? Especially when he only fucks her in private.

For Heylana it made sense since he did it publicly, and Alexia found out about it immediately (or at least in my case 5 weeks later as soon as Heylana was brought naked into Rowan's room, since the event for me didn't fire until 5 weeks later after the battle). And for the decision with Heylana it at least made some sense... to get raped by one person who you like / secretly in love is better than getting gang raped by orcs.

Also this kind of leads me to wonder... why do we not have an option to do mercy killings? If we want Rowan to stay loyal to Alexia, but don't want to Heylana get raped... why not just let him kill her. I mean hes gone around killing people, and even had the option to willing kill his village elder, then why not some one who he cares about? Cause sometimes death is an easier path than being enslaved and tortured for the rest of your life.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Hey if women can destroy entire countries and armies in real life with just their "sword sheaves" as the game puts it... then why can't some fictional character save a few individuals with his meat sword?

But yeah the option for Rowan to basically say that comes a bit too often in this game... like when Alexia confronts him about Liurial why would even say that to Alexia. He saved her from being harassed, but there was no need to actually fuck her. The argument he makes about this don't make any sense... cause if he claims he needs to fuck her to prevent other people from raping her... then wouldn't he need to public announce that he has claimed her for his own to have the desired effect? Meaning wouldn't Alexia know about it right away? Especially when he only fucks her in private.

For Heylana it made sense since he did it publicly, and Alexia found out about it immediately (or at least in my case 5 weeks later as soon as Heylana was brought naked into Rowan's room, since the event for me didn't fire until 5 weeks later after the battle). And for the decision with Heylana it at least made some sense... to get raped by one person who you like / secretly in love is better than getting gang raped by orcs.

Also this kind of leads me to wonder... why do we not have an option to do mercy killings? If we want Rowan to stay loyal to Alexia, but don't want to Heylana get raped... why not just let him kill her. I mean hes gone around killing people, and even had the option to willing kill his village elder, then why not some one who he cares about? Cause sometimes death is an easier path than being enslaved and tortured for the rest of your life.

Yeah, and if Alexia isn't already corrupted/has fucked Andras/Jeez your excuse with Liurial WON'T WORK. She gets mad at you.

As for mercy killing. That isn't a terrible option. But, I don't think it's really possible for Rowan to be there in his arc at that point.

 

[aesir150]

Yeah, and if Alexia isn't already corrupted/has fucked Andras/Jeez your excuse with Liurial WON'T WORK. She gets mad at you.

As for mercy killing. That isn't a terrible option. But, I don't think it's really possible for Rowan to be there in his arc at that point.

Yeah I know that. I am just saying hes the option to says some really dumb things at times.

When I play the game I usually save whenever I get choice to do something then play 1-2 weeks after the choice to see what happens in each of the the decisions, then I go forward with the path that I like the most which is usually with Rowan screwing everything, Alexia not having sex with anyone except Jezara.

As for not there at his arc yet... maybe you should add a counter at each event where Rowan does something evil, assuming there isn't one already... Cause in my game I had raided quite a few farms / villages with the twin's forces, I had 4 villages subjugated, and went on multiple raiding parties with the Orcaid orcs, and possibly could of just helped and watched Delane get gang raped by a couple hundred orcs, not to mention if he took the keep by force he murdered a unsuspecting knight which he could of tried to save by tricking him out of the room. Cause due to the free roaming feature of the game, Rowan could have done quite a few evil things by time he gets to the Keep, or he could be still a reluctant contributor who hasn't done anything except get mines and armed 30 orcs.

Cause if I were Rowan, and wasn't meta gaming with the knowledge that I have no chance of being resisting the Twins as stated in the game description;

"You are the bad guy - Unlike most games with alignment systems that allow you to be good, evil, or morally neutral, in Seeds of Chaos you play the villain. Ethical decisions will focus on just how corrupt you character is becoming, and the consequences of that change."

Then I would of opted to mercy kill some people instead of putting them through what potential horrible fate they would have if they lived. Both as a way to save them in a way, and to undermine the Twins. Cause the last thing I would ever want is for someone to suffer like Heylana, and I would be worried about the twins getting more powerful and skilled champions if I weren't that corrupt yet. So I would of killed her out of pity, and to undermine the Twins... which in turn could make him more corrupt and ruthless in the overall story arc. Cause right now his logic is the better he helps the Twins, the quicker the war is over, which means less innocents have to die / suffer... but at the same time as we see further in the game he wants to defy the Twins, and at times undermines them... which is why mercy killing her would make sense since he is technically protecting her innocence in a way while undermining the Twins from potentially getting another Champion / Agent, and would hurt their army morale a bit since they have less sexual entertainment.

At the same time he could do the same with Delane also, where he could of opted to kill her also... to get Batri and Ulrco to fight, but to sabotage Tarkish from getting the full tribe of orcs if he didn't want to go through the trouble of saving her to sabotage the Tarkish.

Kill everyone to save their souls. #DeusVult

 

[Rein]

I will concede a reasonable argument can be make for mercy killing Helayna, but let's face it, we're not putting it in the game, because there's already already two unique event chains where she escapes "on her own" or you help her escape, and 60% of the players still convince her to stay. Adding a fourth state here is simply something that is not worth the time investment.

The story must go on, or else we'll be writing this till 2030.

Now AlexiaXRowan events! That's something that does indeed require work. We will definitely have more events that allow Rowan to take on a more active role in corrupting her. As for more PureRowanxPureAlexia events... We'll probably have more of those as well, since it is the default state for both? Though we did run a question on what Alexia narratives interest people most, and PureAlexia got... 1,6% of the votes, as oppposed to 27,6% for corrupting her yourself.

So there's that.

 

[aesir150]

I will concede a reasonable argument can be make for mercy killing Helayna, but let's face it, we're not putting it in the game, because there's already already two unique event chains where she escapes "on her own" or you help her escape, and 60% of the players still convince her to stay. Adding a fourth state here is simply something that is not worth the time investment.

The story must go on, or else we'll be writing this till 2030.

Now AlexiaXRowan events! That's something that does indeed require work. We will definitely have more events that allow Rowan to take on a more active role in corrupting her. As for more PureRowanxPureAlexia events... We'll probably have more of those as well, since it is the default state for both? Though we did run a question on what Alexia narratives interest people most, and PureAlexia got... 1,6% of the votes, as oppposed to 27,6% for corrupting her yourself.

So there's that.

Yeah I have no problem with that all and understand what you are saying. Also if we had the options to do mercy killings I feel like that would ruin the most of your work and make the game horribly short considering how heavily a lot of the game depends on some tension that particular key events cause.

Cause I can see it already... I if played my normal reluctant hero stance I would basically mercy kill like 50% of the people if I had a choice, and then miss 50% of the content. I am basically the secretly misunderstood bad guy in every anime, I secretly kill people for their own good. :muwuahhahahaa:

I hope none of my questions offend any of you who are the developers, I am not really asking them as a request either. I am just a inquisitive person. And I am willing to accept any answers that you give. Cause I understand you can't do everything, and certain things are just to complicated to add when trying to write a coherent narrative, especially when have so many branching paths already.

 

[TheSexinati]

PureAlexia got... 1,6% of the votes, as oppposed to 27,6% for corrupting her yourself.

So there's that.

Whelp, I'm not surprised with those statistics. Statistically speaking.

I suppose at this point in time, the only Pure Alexia x Rowan route for me will be one that involves a Minotaur dick in the middle.

Now since I am assuming you are making your statement based on the survey... Do you mind if I ask a simple question?

In regards to the subject of 'Rowan pursuing a loving, romantic relationship'... What percentage picked Andras!?

Because I hope I am not the only one there who put that in for shits and giggles. *Twirls moustache*

 

[Back]

If I recall, a lot of the questions from the survey were a loaded too. They also seemed to have been asked with the assumption that you've played the latest version and delved into it quite a bit. Then there were also questions like did you do this or that or whatever, but without taking considerations if that was something that player would normally do or enjoy--such as have you done this ever versus on your typical playthrough which choices / paths do you pick and enjoy the most? I, for one, answered and responded to the questions of the survey as presented, but I'd definitely would have chosen or responded in a different way if the questions were asked in a more thoughtful way. Hence, take the results with a grain of salt as I'm sure it's quite skewed.

 

[Rein]

There's always next year. What quesions do you think we should've had asked?

 

[TheSexinati]

Can you imagine writing for Andras and having that laid on your shoulders. So that demon that basically wants to murderfuck everything, has the patience of an irate honey badger and treats Rowan/Alexia like fucktoys.... yeah make him love now .

It wouldn't be too hard, I should imagine. You just need to pull out the Medieval/Renaissance version of Barry White. Of course, Being Andras, I'm sure he could find a way to ruin the moment.

Andras strumming a lute: "Lalalalalalanalala Fandalalalah..."
Rowan: "Is... is that a Tarantella?"
*Rowan +10 affection*
Rowan: "I am so going to bend over for you right now!"

*Two hours of Demon-on-Human sex later*

Rowan: "So... Can you play another song!?"
Andras: "Sure... let me just get the lute..."
*Andras gets out of bed and grabs lute*

Andras: "Il est un homme en nos villes qui de sa femme est jaloux. Il n'est pas jaloux sans cause, mais il est cocu du tout!"
Rowan: "I hate you so much!"
*Rowan gets out of bed and puts on clothes*
Andras: "It's a Shame for you, Rowan, I've been fucking Alexia on the side... Ahahahahahah!"
*Alexia relationship broken, Andras gained 10 influence*

To those of you without any knowledge of medieval/renaissance music, I went from a Romantic song to a French Folk-song about a guy getting Cuckolded. Lyrics here

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Back]

There's always next year. What questions do you think we should've asked?

The survey can ask the same questions; that's fine. The team is trying to get data on certain things; I get it. However, it's how you're asking the questions and what assumptions, intentional or not, are implied in the survey that will cause problems. In addition to my earlier post, the survey also excludes the fact that several players, as noted within this thread, have several different saves to explore different gameplay styles (which the survey does not take into consideration). I haven't looked at this survey since whenever I took it, but I do recall various sampling errors and how they would inevitably could cause incorrect conclusions. As I recall, it seems the survey assumes the player is using the latest version, and in many of the questions as if that player only played through it once, but later asks questions as if the player explored various other elements that are mutually exclusive in other playthroughs. I was at a loss for several of the questions due to the way they could be interpreted versus what I thought the team was aiming and asking for. These outlining errors, one-dimensional and ultimatum aspects of certain questions, and the assumptions taken may cause one to draw the wrong conclusions. However, I believe and will grant that the survey isn't without merit. It should still give you a general sense of how your audience looks at things, but remember that correlation does not imply causation. Hence, the way this particular survey was setup and how it asked its questions will not reflect a true result, but will probably still offer a decent indication of the general sense of some of the directions the game is going. Though, I would have answered many of the questions differently had the questions were asked in a slightly different way or took a more thoughtful consideration on what the team wanted to ask. Even if you could increase the sampling size, it would still hold true that if there's someone that answers in that way, then there will be others. Just be careful that your own statistics from the survey doesn't cause the team to erroneously draw certain conclusions.

 

[T51bwinterized]

The survey can ask the same questions; that's fine. The team is trying to get data on certain things; I get it. However, it's how you're asking the questions and what assumptions, intentional or not, are implied in the survey that will cause problems. In addition to my earlier post, the survey also excludes the fact that several players, as noted within this thread, have several different saves to explore different gameplay styles (which the survey does not take into consideration). I haven't looked at this survey since whenever I took it, but I do recall various sampling errors and how they would inevitably could cause incorrect conclusions. As I recall, it seems the survey assumes the player is using the latest version, and in many of the questions as if that player only played through it once, but later asks questions as if the player explored various other elements that are mutually exclusive in other playthroughs. I was at a loss for several of the questions due to the way they could be interpreted versus what I thought the team was aiming and asking for. These outlining errors, one-dimensional and ultimatum aspects of certain questions, and the assumptions taken may cause one to draw the wrong conclusions. However, I believe and will grant that the survey isn't without merit. It should still give you a general sense of how your audience looks at things, but remember that correlation does not imply causation. Hence, the way this particular survey was setup and how it asked its questions will not reflect a true result, but will probably still offer a decent indication of the general sense of some of the directions the game is going. Though, I would have answered many of the questions differently had the questions were asked in a slightly different way or took a more thoughtful consideration on what the team wanted to ask. Even if you could increase the sampling size, it would still hold true that if there's someone that answers in that way, then there will be others. Just be careful that your own statistics from the survey doesn't cause the team to erroneously draw certain conclusions.

Can you give us examples of some of the questions you felt we're loaded?

 

[Back]

I was talking about the survey since it was brought up earlier. In regards to the team's questions, I searched your Patreon just now and reloaded the survey but could not get past the first page. I would "retake" the survey to provide specific examples, but of course it would not change what I said. (It might be cookie or IP related that's preventing me from getting past that first page.) Regardless, you'd have access to the questions in front of you and knowing that you all are an intelligent lot (and I do mean that--I don't always agree with you guys but I think y'all are intelligent folks), I'm sure once you take a critical eye to the survey in consideration to what I said I'm positive you can discover at least several of those questions where they can be interpreted differently than what your team may have intended. Don't get me wrong though, I do not believe the results of the survey should be disregarded off-hand. Just be weary of what conclusions your team might draw from it is all; and be more concise on how you go about asking certain questions--especially those of the ever versus which choices do you typically choose or typically enjoy the most variety. For instance if I recall correctly (and bear in mind that I do not know exactly how these questions were asked as I do not have the survey in front of me), one or more of the questions had asked something along the lines of "have you ever seen/encountered/pursue such and such content?" (and at least one that included a list, I believe). How would I answer this question? I most likely answered these types of questions in the affirmative. And respectively speaking (and not to kink shame anyone), it doesn't mean I enjoy or even ever want to see certain content. Then there were questions like "what choice did you pick from among these in your playthrough?". What does that suppose mean? My first encounter for that, the choice I usually pick, what would I prefer, or what did I pick from the last time I ran across those choices in my last playthrough? I'm assuming your team was asking about the preference of what the player had chosen and enjoyed while also making the assumption that the player knows the results/consequences of that choice; however, I think I answered it in the way of the results from the last/current playthrough. For instance, the Orcaid stuff--it asked something along the lines of who did you back, if any? I answered without knowing how all of it would turn out (but also reflecting on choices that I would never even pick due to what I have heard of the content that I do not want to see from people around the web and not from the game itself). Rein above brought up an interesting result about which "Alexia narratives interest people [the] most". It "concluded" with Corrupting Alexia Yourself at 27.6% and Keeping Alexia Pure with 1.6%. Now, I do not recall how this one question or these series of questions were asked, but here might be case of drawing an erroneous conclusion from the result. I prefer keeping Rowan and Alexia faithful to one another and would likely take that path when and if the game is ever get to a more completed state. I like taking "pure" paths in games. However, I more than likely answered the in the former for the survey because one, it might be one of those ever questions, and if not, then because it had more content, or simply, I was curious to see it. It doesn't mean that's my preferred path in the game. Another was something like "did you kill your father-figure home village elder when Andras threatened to kill more people?". Perhaps somehow asking why the player did so or not would yield a better result. I certainly would have taken a different route to keep as many villagers alive which includes the elder had that option be available, y'know? Perhaps that last example wasn't fair, but the point is just be a little more thoughtful with the survey questions. I know I was probably rambling a bit, but I'm actually pressed for time (RL stuff so apologies for the block of text without formatting). I wanted to punch a post out since you guys asked and I didn't want to ignore it nor give you guys a copout answer of "I can't answer you since I can't load the survey" bullshit. Hopefully, this helps or satisfies to y'all's questions or provide insight to some of the sampling errors within the survey. Alright, stay awesome! +1 to everyone that read and made it through this post. Cheers!

Edit: Nothing is changed within the original post. Since I have a moment, I wanted to add don't let the perceived bias or perceptions cause to have the resulting statistics lie to you; if that makes sense. Just be cautious. Like how Rein commented, I'm sure in jest, about Helenya (sp?). Claiming her to save her shouldn't automatically mean that a noncorrupt Rowan did it to just to dick her. It's explained in game "okayish". I don't know; I should probably get back to RL stuff. Just throwing out some thoughts. No offense intended to anyone. People intrepret things differently and the team might be too close to the project to see certain aspects; thus, I'm glad you guys do polls.

 

[aqd]

I was talking about the survey since it was brought up earlier. In regards to the team's questions, I searched your Patreon just now and reloaded the survey but could not get past the first page. I would "retake" the survey to provide specific examples, but of course it would not change what I said. (It might be cookie or IP related that's preventing me from getting past that first page.) Regardless, you'd have access to the questions in front of you and knowing that you all are an intelligent lot (and I do mean that--I don't always agree with you guys but I think y'all are intelligent folks), I'm sure once you take a critical eye to the survey in consideration to what I said I'm positive you can discover at least several of those questions where they can be interpreted differently than what your team may have intended. Don't get me wrong though, I do not believe the results of the survey should be disregarded off-hand. Just be weary of what conclusions your team might draw from it is all; and be more concise on how you go about asking certain questions--especially those of the ever versus which choices do you typically choose or typically enjoy the most variety. For instance if I recall correctly (and bear in mind that I do not know exactly how these questions were asked as I do not have the survey in front of me), one or more of the questions had asked something along the lines of "have you ever seen/encountered/pursue such and such content?" (and at least one that included a list, I believe). How would I answer this question? I most likely answered these types of questions in the affirmative. And respectively speaking (and not to kink shame anyone), it doesn't mean I enjoy or even ever want to see certain content. Then there were questions like "what choice did you pick from among these in your playthrough?". What does that suppose mean? My first encounter for that, the choice I usually pick, what would I prefer, or what did I pick from the last time I ran across those choices in my last playthrough? I'm assuming your team was asking about the preference of what the player had chosen and enjoyed while also making the assumption that the player knows the results/consequences of that choice; however, I think I answered it in the way of the results from the last/current playthrough. For instance, the Orcaid stuff--it asked something along the lines of who did you back, if any? I answered without knowing how all of it would turn out (but also reflecting on choices that I would never even pick due to what I have heard of the content that I do not want to see from people around the web and not from the game itself). Rein above brought up an interesting result about which "Alexia narratives interest people [the] most". It "concluded" with Corrupting Alexia Yourself at 27.6% and Keeping Alexia Pure with 1.6%. Now, I do not recall how this one question or these series of questions were asked, but here might be case of drawing an erroneous conclusion from the result. I prefer keeping Rowan and Alexia faithful to one another and would likely take that path when and if the game is ever get to a more completed state. I like taking "pure" paths in games. However, I more than likely answered the in the former for the survey because one, it might be one of those ever questions, and if not, then because it had more content, or simply, I was curious to see it. It doesn't mean that's my preferred path in the game. Another was something like "did you kill your father-figure home village elder when Andras threatened to kill more people?". Perhaps somehow asking why the player did so or not would yield a better result. I certainly would have taken a different route to keep as many villagers alive which includes the elder had that option be available, y'know? Perhaps that last example wasn't fair, but the point is just be a little more thoughtful with the survey questions. I know I was probably rambling a bit, but I'm actually pressed for time (RL stuff so apologies for the block of text without formatting). I wanted to punch a post out since you guys asked and I didn't want to ignore it nor give you guys a copout answer of "I can't answer you since I can't load the survey" bullshit. Hopefully, this helps or satisfies to y'all's questions or provide insight to some of the sampling errors within the survey. Alright, stay awesome! +1 to everyone that read and made it through this post. Cheers!

Yes, all polls are imperfect. [Also, the writers may be weary after reading your post, and that may make them wary of your future posts...] I think 'Pure Alexia' v. 'Andras/Jezera corrupts Alexia' v. 'you (Rowan) corrupts Alexia' is pretty unambiguous as questions go. It seems like there's a very large plurality interested in a corrupted path, and a very small minority interested in keeping her 'pure'. And that's about the level of fidelity you expect in a poll from which it's reasonably easy to reduce the data. A more problematic question may be, 'who is your least favorite character?' As a poll-taker do I take that to mean which character is the most evil and despicable, or which I want to see less of in the game? For instance, Andras is terrible, but some of the best scenes are ones where he's corrupting Alexia and I want more of that.

 

[Back]

The writers may be weary after reading your post, and that may make them wary of your future posts.

Yeah, fair enough; I didn't mean to insult or offend anyone. I just recall that the survey's questions were "ambiguous" so caution is advised when trying to draw conclusions from the resulting data.

I think 'Pure Alexia' v. 'Andras/Jezera corrupts Alexia' v. 'you (Rowan) corrupts Alexia' is pretty unambiguous as questions go.

I'm not sure about that. But, I do not have the survey in front of me. How were these questions asked? Is it a preference thing? It that what really the choice the player wanted? Is that what they did on their last playthrough? Is this something that player enjoys the most or wants to see more of? See? Even between you and I, we're seeing that line of questioning differently. Admittedly, again, I'm not sure if that's the case since I do not have the survey in front of me.

The rest of your post is exactly what I mean. It's open to many interpretations, and respectfully speaking, some of those questions were "loaded" if I recall correctly. Do you hate the guy and want to see more of it or what? All I was saying is that the original survey's questions themselves should have been more concise and took into consideration of possible multiple playthroughs by the players using different playstyles. I know for a fact as a poll-taker of this survey, I answered questions for the most part on what was asked and generally not what was intended due to the confusion on how the question(s) were worded.

Regardless, the survey should still offer the general "pulse" of the audience and how the team is doing. Again, I wasn't trying to be disparaging or critical of gameplay choices (thus not mentioning kinks above), I just wanted them to more aware of how things could be interpreted and see how things could go from there. Be concise and try to remove ambiguity and be careful not to color certain aspects due to how close one is to the project. A dev might play and see things in a certain way (since they are on the inside track) and intends to let them play out in a particular way which might be counter to how a player perceives things thus affecting how they play to see how certain plotlines might play out versus what was intended or planned.

There will be ambiguity in the results because there were ambiguity on how questions were worded. The above post is an example of such. However, I want to reiterate that the results are not without merit. Just be careful with what conclusions one may or want to see in the results. Okay, I have to gracefully bow out right now as RL beckons once again. Be cool, every one; be happy and have fun!

 

[diebesgrab]

My main problem is that there were only three “what’s your favorite fetishes” questions. I have way more than three.

 

[T51bwinterized]

My main problem is that there were only three “what’s your favorite fetishes” questions. I have way more than three.

I think that one was an issue of the poll client. We can probably run an independent kink poll.