Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.12a Non-Patreon] [Vénus Noire]
RC-1138 Boss
Message Maven
- Apr 26, 2017
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Gallery was not updated in quite some time. Keep saves if you wish to check scenes later.
Remember to search the thread for questions like that next time. This was answered a few times already.
Remember to search the thread for questions like that next time. This was answered a few times already.
Honestly, I unrepyed the game like four updates ago and haven't looked back. The manner in which content is seen in this game is not conducive to just sitting down to experience the new stuff. There's so much bullshit involved in triggering things that being able to roll back or just load the scenes you want to see that it's hard to resist cheating.
Retromancer
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I see a lot on these forums about RPGMaker games being inferior to Ren'py, but I think this is the reverse. The game being in Ren'py is a complicated mess, with certain scenes only being seen if you cheat because you missed a certain trigger. If it was made in RPGMaker you could have clear questlines with step-by-step options taken. All the things like Alexis job events, the way stats and equipment are handled, the open-world aspect of it, and the sheer complication of the game are better handled by an engine that is more suited to RPGs than VNs. Also, with having Corruption, Affection and other stat points matter so much to the dialogue content and even scene content, being able to open a menu and seeing the characters stats matters a lot
RC-1138 Boss
Message Maven
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No way. RPGMaker games are only good when the developers dedicated time to build good gameplay mechanics, sprites for the characters and the scenarios. Like the devs from Roundscape Adorevia or Claire's Quest. Otherwise we get that boring walking around in generic maps with boring fights that most RPGmaker games around here contain.
Seeds of Chaos is a game that lean heavily on the story and dialogue choices. Ren'py is a much better engine for this. Plus they are already working on the stats system from what was said before.
Seeds of Chaos is a game that lean heavily on the story and dialogue choices. Ren'py is a much better engine for this. Plus they are already working on the stats system from what was said before.
Retromancer
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What it leans on, very heavily, is random chance - at least up until Rastadel ( l lost a lot of interest in the game right before that because of this, and have only looked through the game code mostly). Can't get the right triggers for Greyhide? The right random events didn't come up - and hey, have to keep certain stats at a certain level for it to even work. Want more corruption for either Alexia or Rowan before a certain event triggers? Play again. Want to run into the Fey? Walk into a forest and see if it happens, it may or may not. We can agree to disagree but the gameplay is is so random, it drives me crazy.
In a game like this, give me specific things I can do to corrupt Delane in the Orc camp, for example, rather than wait for random chance to just even get the chance to make it happen. It's just frustrating design with so much good content behind it. Yes the devs would have to give more thought to a battle system, for example, but it might even drive more story choices than before. And as far as the complaint about empty maps its all just random shit in whatever tile you choose - is that better? Yes for more content, no for being more frustrating.
See: Sierra Lee's The Last Sovereign game for a RPGM game that handles incredibly complicated situations like this in a way that is better. No Ren'py game can copy that, and this game is just going to fall under it's own weight with people just constantly asking for game files without bothering to play the game because it is too random, with too many paths gated off by this fetish for random chance plus an insane amount of choices in a VN
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- Aug 25, 2017
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I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison.
TLS is by far the best storytelling (and world building) experience in an adult RPGM game bar none. Very few games measure up to it in that regard, no matter the engine.
I do agree that Seeds of Chaos is overly reliant on pure chance though, which is why I wouldn't even attempt to play it without cheating at this point.
Could anyone tell me what the plot of this game is like? I'm not afraid of spoilers, I read the op but I did't figure it out. If the MC is just a submissive guy and no way to fuck the villain up in current version, I will out immediately.
- Aug 25, 2017
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There is no way to fuck the (main) villains up in this version.
The MC isn't necessarily submissive but starts out as a victim and then turns into a more or less willing henchman. If you're naturally dominant you will have a bad time for most of the early (and some of the mid) game before the content gets more varied. If you need your character to be in control at all times this is not the game for you.
Hi Guys! For some reason, Liurial never appeared in my game?? Can anyone tell me what needs to be done to have the initial meeting with her? Any help would be appreciated!
Retromancer
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Yes, I completely agree that the standard TLS sets from that standpoint might be unmatched in my lifetime. But this game is trying, from what I can tell, to tell a story on a similar scale even if it is not executed as well. I believe it is in the first act of what, 3 or 5 to come? There are additional features like Rivals, completely new maps, etc that aren't even implemented yet? And it is already so incredibly clunky and difficult to manage in this VN format. I don't know enough about coding to know which engine would work better - Unity, RPGM, etc - but trying to cram a complicated RPG game into Ren'py seems stupid to me. But hey, I can just keep pirating and UnRen'py the files so at the end of the day no problem for me. Won't play or pay for this mess though.
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Sounds a bit like that maledom spin-off that a dev assured me they were developing more than two years ago in this very thread.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Presumably Unity would work best if you're willing to put in the work. At least the engine is capable of all that and much more but from what I can tell you have less of an established base structure than in Renpy, let alone RPGM.
That said, there's probably a lot that could be streamlined and/or optimized without switching engines but for now the devs seem more focused on expanding content rather than polishing the core mechanics.
Truth to be told I don't mind that much. While I enjoy the setting and (some of) the writing, a lot of the sexual content really isn't for me so I'm used to cheating to get to the scenes I enjoy and avoid the ones that make my dick shrivel up.
diebesgrab
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I’m just going to say here that I fucking hate typical RPGM porn games. The gameplay is always an afterthought, and amounts to nothing more than meaningless grind to access the next porn scenes, and nothing kills my boner faster than being bored. Yes, SoC has too many random events. Playing without savescumming might result in different experiences, but that experience can accidentally gate you out of your preferred content. That said, they have gotten significantly better about this, with most important scenes tied to certain locations and accessible after certain dates, though this encourages the player to check every location every week, which is itself tedious. Still, credit where it’s due, getting onto Greyhide’s path used to essentially require savescumming since there was a low corruption requirement and getting the events early enough was a crapshoot, but in my latest playthrough, I’d gotten the intro events done by like the 9th week or something with no required savescumming thanks to the scenes being tied to castle locations. There’s still a lot of savescumming though, especially with Alexia’s job events growing in number and nothing but random chance dictating what you get.
I’d still take this optional mindless savescumming over mandatory equally mindless grindy gameplay and scenes tied to specific hidden locations, though; I have to pay a lot less attention, and generally spend less time, savescumming than “playing” generic RPG gameplay. And Ren’Py has the distinct advantage of rollback in case you accidentally skip too far, and fast forward if you have to retread your steps.
tl;dr: SoC is far from perfect in the gameplay department, and Ren’Py isn’t the absolute perfect fit, but I would rather it than pretty much any other EZ-Bake engine.
I’d still take this optional mindless savescumming over mandatory equally mindless grindy gameplay and scenes tied to specific hidden locations, though; I have to pay a lot less attention, and generally spend less time, savescumming than “playing” generic RPG gameplay. And Ren’Py has the distinct advantage of rollback in case you accidentally skip too far, and fast forward if you have to retread your steps.
tl;dr: SoC is far from perfect in the gameplay department, and Ren’Py isn’t the absolute perfect fit, but I would rather it than pretty much any other EZ-Bake engine.
- Aug 25, 2017
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That's fair but we weren't talking about RPGM games in general.
The Last Sovereign is far from typical and arguably not even a porn game since the porn is the absolute least important and interesting part of it.
It still has the drawback of making you walk and click more than necessary, which is a known limitation of the engine, but it also manages to simulate warfare, politics and management in a way that RPGM really shouldn't be able to. Plus its writing kicks all of the ass.
RC-1138 Boss
Message Maven
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The Last Sovereign is a exception not the rule. diebesgrab is right, more often than not RPGmaker games turn up like Peasant's Quest: a bunch of boring walking around and fighting generic enemies on generic maps to level up a bunch of generic stats. All that so you can see the scenes.
No thank you, i take the roll dice from Seeds of Chaos on ren'py any day over that.
No thank you, i take the roll dice from Seeds of Chaos on ren'py any day over that.
Retromancer
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Look, I understand that this game is not going to switch engines, 100%. My initial post was more of a thought on why Ren'py sucks for this type of game and why another engine might have supported it better. When even the writer of guides for the game talks about savescumming as a part of how they play the game this is an issue. I don't know if there are any tweaks that can be made at this point to make this game actually fun to play.
Also, as far as TLS goes, I don't think it's an unfair comparison. This game is trying to be almost as ambitious from what I can tell, so why can't we hold up other creators to that standard? Are they 5 year-olds fighting against grown men?
Also, as far as TLS goes, I don't think it's an unfair comparison. This game is trying to be almost as ambitious from what I can tell, so why can't we hold up other creators to that standard? Are they 5 year-olds fighting against grown men?
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This could just be random chance. There was also (Not sure if it's been fixed, it was known before the last release but isn't mentioned in the changelog, though bugfixes often aren't) a bug that prevented Liurial's intro event from playing, though later events could still play. If she never appeared at all, I imagine it's just RNG that she didn't in yours rather than the bug, but I can't remember if there are any requirements for her intro in terms of week or anything.Hi Guys! For some reason, Liurial never appeared in my game?? Can anyone tell me what needs to be done to have the initial meeting with her? Any help would be appreciated!
I think the rub is that your comments were phrased as engine choice when what you're commenting on is design choice. The difference in question between this game (Events that proc in large part via RNG) and TLS (Events that proc entirely based off variables determined by your choices) is full stop because the devs designed each of their games that way and has nothing to do with engine.
The game could be changed to cut out a large chunk of the RNG in numerous ways (And I do wonder if more events someday will be. The Fey storyline in particular seems like it'd be pretty large, so having the intros all start from exploring certain tile types might seem a bit odd once the rest of it starts getting put in.) Changing the engine to RPG Maker wouldn't guarantee that, and would involve a lot, lot more work to re-design stuff.
Plus while this is an RPG, it isn't an RPG in the way of RPG Maker games. It's an RPG in the way of a tabletop game, with skill rolls. Just because RPG maker makes old JRPG style games and this is an RPG doesn't mean they're perfect for each other.
Personally since it is a VN and not an RPG, I would have gone for far lighter RPG mechanics. No skill or ability points, just a number of feats that gives you proficiency (and possibly advantage) with certain types of checks which would be far fewer. Think 5E D&D with Rowan being a skill monkey (which is what he is, a rogue/skill-based character. And ofc Rowan should start with decent skills already given he is an experienced adventurer; you could perhaps pick a few things at character creation.