Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.13a] [Vénus Noire]

[lamebrain]

So the argument is that he is very well written for the MC in a NTR focused plot? Yeah- I totally agree. That is pretty much my point as well.

No, the argument was that there is a lot of mdom but it is contextually specific to the plot of the game. It is not Rance-style mdom, but it is mdom nevertheless. And there is quite a lot of it.

 

[monk_56]

I would ask, what do you expect Rowan to do in his situation. He is surrounded by enemies, most of them are significantly more powerful than he is, they have is wife hostage, and they can instantly teleport either him or his wife back to them anytime they want. He can't act overtly because he can't trust anyone around him. The reason he doesn't seem dominate is because he is not in a dominate position because he is a prisoner an a slave. Honestly, I think the best move for him right now is to go along with them and appear to either be won over or broken, while watching for opportunities that he can take advantage of and building up a power base that he can eventually use against them all the while.

And I think he is potentially is doing a good job of that (player choices withstanding of course). There are several scene in which Rowan can undermine the twins' efforts, most of them are not in huge ways but that is because Rowan has been dealt a weak hand and the consequences of getting caught would be quite high. He has to try to keep his rebellions subtle and have plausible deniability should anything be found. Also he has been making great strides at making allies among his enemies. At the end of their act 1 arcs nearly everyone important in the castle see him as a friend, respect him, and/or love him. Of course he can't immediate weaponize those feelings. If you just started seriously dating someone and they asked you to help them over throw the government you'd probably back away pretty quickly. However most of these people are not particularly opposed to violence and are not overly loyal to the twins either. Another arc's worth of convincing and an offer of a better deal could go a long way to turning things around.

Good question. Lets think about that.

~Assign a guard/s he trusts to help look after his wife while he has to be gone.
~A job arc where Alexia could be close to Rowan when he was at Bloodmean
~A incredibly large suite of things he could have been doing during the Rastdel plot to lay groundwork for better outcomes. Rowan more or less basically did the Twins exact bidding in that plot- with the one exception of not always choosing the exact ally they wanted or using the power of the amulet on Patricia himself instead of for the twins.
~Tangible efforts to parse out what the powers of the amulets are. Such as communicating via a cypher with magic users he meets while exploring ect. There was one event related to this sort of logic in Bloodmean- but it made Rowan look like a moron more than it made him look like any sort of mastermind- which is what he is supposed to be.
~Gain some actually tangible degree of power.
~Rescue Emma from Orcaide.

I'm sure the writers could come up with even better heroic or resistance content- but that is just some stuff off the top of my head. Rowan is supposed to be this mastermind trickster- but he sure doesn't come off like one.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

No, the argument was that there is a lot of mdom but it is contextually specific to the plot of the game. It is not Rance-style mdom, but it is mdom nevertheless. And there is quite a lot of it.

I think there might be a bit of a miscommunication about what "mdom" means. The thing is culturally there as at least a slight level of mdom in most M/F pairings. Men fuck, women get fucked, sort of thing. In a number of his sexual encounters Rowan is the dominate partner simply by virtue of this fact.

But that is not the same as a Dom/Sub relationship in which the Dom is a man. As monk_56 has said there is a limited number in which Rowan is a capital D Dom. Liureal is obviously the main one, Helayna does have a path dedicated to this but it is not very developed (but that should be changing soon), There is a little with Patricia if you choose to mind control her, there is a tiny bit with Rowan x Alexia (but Monk hates Alexia), Cla-min I would argue is more just rough sex than an actual dom/sub situation.

 

[lamebrain]

I think there might be a bit of a miscommunication about what "mdom" means. The thing is culturally there as at least a slight level of mdom in most M/F pairings. Men fuck, women get fucked, sort of thing. In a number of his sexual encounters Rowan is the dominate partner simply by virtue of this fact.

But that is not the same as a Dom/Sub relationship in which the Dom is a man. As monk_56 has said there is a limited number in which Rowan is a capital D Dom. Liureal is obviously the main one, Helayna does have a path dedicated to this but it is not very developed (but that should be changing soon), There is a little with Patricia if you choose to mind control her, there is a tiny bit with Rowan x Alexia (but Monk hates Alexia), Cla-min I would argue is more just rough sex than an actual dom/sub situation.

I mean, sure, okay. But I would argue that a lot of Rowan's encounters have dominating characteristics, though maybe that isn't capital D Dom, as you say.

That is kinda my point though: within confines of the plot, there isn't a lot of room for Rowan to be a capital D Dom in the style of Rance (I know I keep coming back to that example, but it is a good example of a classic fantasy mdom-focused game). But there are a lot of instances where Rowan is a dominant (or dominating) actor, or instances where Rowan exerts power through sex. The Helayna plot arc is a great example because on the one hand, you have him capital D Domming Helayna in a few scenes, but also, he exerts an emotional power over Alexia by cuckolding her (especially if you tell Alexia that you love Helayna). As a matter of fact, simply by virtue of the fact that Rowan is cheating on his wife and getting away with it in almost every sexual encounter, they're all "dominating" in that way — if you have NTR turned off, the game is played in such a way that Rowan continuously cuckolds Alexia, and she just gets sits in Castle Bloodmean and takes it.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

I mean, sure, okay. But I would argue that a lot of Rowan's encounters have dominating characteristics, though maybe that isn't capital D Dom, as you say.

That is kinda my point though: within confines of the plot, there isn't a lot of room for Rowan to be a capital D Dom in the style of Rance (I know I keep coming back to that example, but it is a good example of a classic fantasy mdom-focused game). But there are a lot of instances where Rowan is a dominant (or dominating) actor, or instances where Rowan exerts power through sex. The Helayna plot arc is a great example because on the one hand, you have him capital D Domming Helayna in a few scenes, but also, he exerts an emotional power over Alexia by cuckolding her (especially if you tell Alexia that you love Helayna). As a matter of fact, simply by virtue of the fact that Rowan is cheating on his wife and getting away with it in almost every sexual encounter, they're all "dominating" in that way — if you have NTR turned off, the game is played in such a way that Rowan continuously cuckolds Alexia, and she just gets sits in Castle Bloodmean and takes it.

Oh, I fully agree. I'm largely of the opinion that Rowan's actions make sense for the situation he is in. I was just commenting on the reason why Monk was saying there was hardly any mdom and you were saying that there was lots of mdom. Essentially you are both right from the way you were defining "mdom."

I was just saying elsewhere, as much as people complain about arguing semantics, nailing down the semanitics is actually cruicial to having any real debate. When people aren't using the same definitions they end up just talking past each other.

Whether or not the game should have more mdom content is a fine debate, but it is a hard debate to have when each side has a very different definition of what qualifies as mdom.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Also it's act 1. One of the things I've tried to do with the Liurial content. And I plan to do with Helayna, is that even a Rowan who is inclined towards being dominant is just not going to be practiced at more over S/m and Fetishistic BDSM type activities. Like with a gay Rowan, a Rowan who is being played as a Dom or Switch is learning about such things.

Thus, by act 2 and 3, a Rowan being played as dominant should be portrayed as more competent and more knowledge about such things, being merely being forceful.

 

[iamvenom]

Any help would be appreciated! Showed "goal2 failed", changed all the "goal2" to "1" and "goal2 faluire" to "0" and it went away. What actually happened here? What was I supposed to do with the "finances"? Both the castle money and personal money are all high so I'm not sure.

 

[Rein]

Hm, this isn't the first time this is reported. I'll try to figure out what's going on there when we do next release bugtesting.

 

[Semantics]

I would ask, what do you expect Rowan to do in his situation. He is surrounded by enemies, most of them are significantly more powerful than he is, they have is wife hostage, and they can instantly teleport either him or his wife back to them anytime they want. He can't act overtly because he can't trust anyone around him. The reason he doesn't seem dominate is because he is not in a dominate position because he is a prisoner an a slave. Honestly, I think the best move for him right now is to go along with them and appear to either be won over or broken, while watching for opportunities that he can take advantage of and building up a power base that he can eventually use against them all the while.

And I think he is potentially is doing a good job of that (player choices withstanding of course). There are several scene in which Rowan can undermine the twins' efforts, most of them are not in huge ways but that is because Rowan has been dealt a weak hand and the consequences of getting caught would be quite high. He has to try to keep his rebellions subtle and have plausible deniability should anything be found. Also he has been making great strides at making allies among his enemies. At the end of their act 1 arcs nearly everyone important in the castle see him as a friend, respect him, and/or love him. Of course he can't immediate weaponize those feelings. If you just started seriously dating someone and they asked you to help them over throw the government you'd probably back away pretty quickly. However most of these people are not particularly opposed to violence and are not overly loyal to the twins either. Another arc's worth of convincing and an offer of a better deal could go a long way to turning things around.

One complaint I had early (Which has been heavily addressed by newer and re-worked character arcs, but still exists in general) is just that Rowan should have plans, and let the player in on those plans so that it seems more like he's at least trying to set things up to help his cause, even when things don't work out.

Rastedel's Werden plot is a great example of that. Rowan never really thinks about his plan before or after his choice to support Werden. And given

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Rescuing Delane from the Orc camp is another one. It could very easily have been played as a choice to collapse all the orc plots against each other and weaken an ally without (hopefully) anyone knowing, but as I recall the writing is pretty much just that Rowan is just doing it because he's hero, and refuses to let Delane suffer their various planned fates. There's no real planning or thought process involved. And while that's a good enough meta reason for me since she's one of my favorite characters, it doesn't feel like great reasoning from Rowan, someone darn-near worshipped by the Goblins for his planning and trickery.

Those are the big ones, but just in general it sometimes seems like Rowan isn't even trying to come up with plans and ideas for everything and that everything except character arcs just kinda fall into his lap. ...And I'll note that while he realizes the potential of winning allies to his side, he's often not the start of those plots. They often also fall into his lap at the start (Cliohna wanting a sample, Jezera trying to use Shaya to influence him, Liurial searching for a dom), and he just runs with them after that.

Hopefully the second look at Rastedel content actually makes choosing Werden a bit more transparent, not that I'll ever know. And hopefully the Goblin allies questline coming up involves Rowan actually plotting and planning. But there are definitely ways to make Rowan SEEM more in control (He has a plan!) without him actually BEING in control (The Twins knew about his plan and/or the plan mostly failed!)

 

[monk_56]

One complaint I had early (Which has been heavily addressed by newer and re-worked character arcs, but still exists in general) is just that Rowan should have plans, and let the player in on those plans so that it seems more like he's at least trying to set things up to help his cause, even when things don't work out.

You raise several good points.
I think the Shaya plot was a good example Rowan "having plans" being well executed narratively. He was deliberate, thoughtful, and deductive in the meta-plot. You did actually get to feel like he was smart and being active. Or you could go the other path and die on a petard of your own horny in the femdom route of the plot if you preferred that.

 

[4rtimos]

EVeryone's arguing about whatever while I'm just sitting here freaking out about One Piece chapter 1044 spoilers while also patiently waiting for artwork to accompany Cla-Min's impregnation scenes.

man, even on a pirated porn game site I can't escape this, seriously.

 

[lockerxx]

Also it's act 1. One of the things I've tried to do with the Liurial content. And I plan to do with Helayna, is that even a Rowan who is inclined towards being dominant is just not going to be practiced at more over S/m and Fetishistic BDSM type activities. Like with a gay Rowan, a Rowan who is being played as a Dom or Switch is learning about such things.

Thus, by act 2 and 3, a Rowan being played as dominant should be portrayed as more competent and more knowledge about such things, being merely being forceful.

curiosity any change that my rowan makes his personal harem in the game.yep i am that simple.

 

[monk_56]

curiosity any change that my rowan makes his personal harem in the game.yep i am that simple.

Not sure when the last time you played was.

There was one new piece of MFF art with Rowan and x2 goblins.
The MFF scene with Liurial x Alexia x Rowan got a makeover and is written significantly better.
There will also be a MMM scene + Art in the next release if you are going for gay harem vibe.

But no- not really any developments for harem kink. A few 3somes tho.

 

[lockerxx]

Not sure when the last time you played was.

There was one new piece of MFF art with Rowan and x2 goblins.
The MFF scene with Liurial x Alexia x Rowan got a makeover and is written significantly better.
There will also be a MMM scene + Art in the next release if you are going for gay harem vibe.

But no- not really any developments for harem kink. A few 3somes tho.

ok is going there.

 

[Oriandu]

Everyone's all "These are my kinks... let's argue about things." and I'm all "I just like nice artwork and well written scenes."

Well... and shortstacks.

 

[comp240]

Checking in 6 years later. Is the wife's NTR/corruption story complete?

 

[NewTricks]

Checking in 6 years later. Is the wife's NTR/corruption story complete?

It is not complete but it has advanced. There are jobs she can do around the castle that have very interesting corruption storylines and love affairs ongoing.

 

[Semantics]

You raise several good points.
I think the Shaya plot was a good example Rowan "having plans" being well executed narratively. He was deliberate, thoughtful, and deductive in the meta-plot. You did actually get to feel like he was smart and being active. Or you could go the other path and die on a petard of your own horny in the femdom route of the plot if you preferred that.

Absolutely. Shaya isn't one of my favorite characters, but her plot is absolutely fantastic for feeling like Rowan is actually using his head, putting a plan together, and trying to execute it.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

You are right, its hard to give a fuck about Rowan. He is spineless, weak, effeminate, passive, dominated; showing very little initiative to protect himself and the ones he loves, he always acts reactively to what other people do rarely ever taking any initiative. I thought he was going to cry like a baby at the end of the Rastdel plot- he just clammed down and took it like a bitch on every single route- his will to fight back was totally crushed. Maybe this is the lowest point on his timeline or something and he will get better post Rastdel after he has time to process or something- but its hard to think of him as anything but pathetic the way he constantly gets dumped on in SoC and how he reacts. He has some good Mdom content for sure- Liurial, Patricia, some of the Cla-min events, but unless it is specifically a MDom route - he doesn't feel dominant at all- he feels dominated.

In Act I is innevitable to see Rowan mostly at this perspective, as the so call "Hero" just go dumb to save his beloved one just to be him the one to saved makes you question how the hell his enemies and the entire nobility was inferior to him in the previous war; from my POV the main problem with Rowan is that he just go around too dumb to give him credibility. It wasn't a joke when i compared Rowan with John Daggett from Batman:TDKR in the scene with Bane about who's in charge after Rastedel, Rowan really seems to thought that for some reason he could influence or have some under control the Twins because of his services and achievements; people responding that Rowan is like Bruce in the prison (rising), sorry, but right now he's literally John Daggett without power over Bane, in this case The Twins. I think the game doesn't establish a route for the "nage" or "uke" (the one who do an act and the one who recieve the action in japanese) because it's intended to give the freedom to choose a role or another, so the experience depends entirely of the player (except for Rastedel because Rowan there is John Daggett X'D). To see Rowan in a more dominant role, maybe we must need to wait half or end of Act 2, that i consider the most probably scenario for the Rowan as a Bruce in the prison from Batman:TDKR.

About the rest i don't care too much about how dominant he is or not, it's about his actions to find a way out Because the more close Rowan was nearly interest seriously in getting free was when inspecting the collar, after choose being a coward or being discourage, the rest of Act I is basically nothing more aside from the discovery of Nasim with Rowan of a source of power (in which he even molest to think in free himself or his wife but use against The Twins without thinking if it'll not have consequences if something happen to them while both are under their power). How Rowan as a peasant could surpass his enemies and the entire nobility before SoC events?.

Finally, if Rowan want to look more male, then he'll need to ask for Nasim, as he could know about to change his look just as Shaya did lol

 

[T51bwinterized]

You raise several good points.
I think the Shaya plot was a good example Rowan "having plans" being well executed narratively. He was deliberate, thoughtful, and deductive in the meta-plot. You did actually get to feel like he was smart and being active. Or you could go the other path and die on a petard of your own horny in the femdom route of the plot if you preferred that.

Absolutely. Shaya isn't one of my favorite characters, but her plot is absolutely fantastic for feeling like Rowan is actually using his head, putting a plan together, and trying to execute it.

When I took over Shaya, I sat down with the charachter and tried to decide what core appeals of her charachter is. I found that her nature as spymaster and someone who'd have an agenda in interactng with Rowan led to a lot of room for espionage and mystery elements. When designing stories for pre-existing charachters, it's all about finding what kinds of conflicts and modes of engagement jive with the charachter.

I think the fact that she's really closed off emotionaly, especially in act 1, along with the fact that she's a charachter who clearly "belongs" to someone else means she will never be the most popular character.

One complaint I had early (Which has been heavily addressed by newer and re-worked character arcs, but still exists in general) is just that Rowan should have plans, and let the player in on those plans so that it seems more like he's at least trying to set things up to help his cause, even when things don't work out.

Rastedel's Werden plot is a great example of that. Rowan never really thinks about his plan before or after his choice to support Werden. And given

Spoiler

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Rescuing Delane from the Orc camp is another one. It could very easily have been played as a choice to collapse all the orc plots against each other and weaken an ally without (hopefully) anyone knowing, but as I recall the writing is pretty much just that Rowan is just doing it because he's hero, and refuses to let Delane suffer their various planned fates. There's no real planning or thought process involved. And while that's a good enough meta reason for me since she's one of my favorite characters, it doesn't feel like great reasoning from Rowan, someone darn-near worshipped by the Goblins for his planning and trickery.

Those are the big ones, but just in general it sometimes seems like Rowan isn't even trying to come up with plans and ideas for everything and that everything except character arcs just kinda fall into his lap. ...And I'll note that while he realizes the potential of winning allies to his side, he's often not the start of those plots. They often also fall into his lap at the start (Cliohna wanting a sample, Jezera trying to use Shaya to influence him, Liurial searching for a dom), and he just runs with them after that.

Hopefully the second look at Rastedel content actually makes choosing Werden a bit more transparent, not that I'll ever know. And hopefully the Goblin allies questline coming up involves Rowan actually plotting and planning. But there are definitely ways to make Rowan SEEM more in control (He has a plan!) without him actually BEING in control (The Twins knew about his plan and/or the plan mostly failed!)

I somewhat agree with that. There's a certain tension between wanting to make things SURPRISING and the fact that players should be kept informed of Rowan's intentions if they want to roleplay him. I'm not happy with where I ended in that regard when it came to Werden, in hindsight. I would expect some changes to that in the edits.

curiosity any change that my rowan makes his personal harem in the game.yep i am that simple.

Yeah kinda. I reworked the Liurial threesome to be much more heavily *about* Alexia accepting Rowan keeping other lovers. The X'z material has expanded the idea of open relationship elements. And in the past year, there's been much more effort to have Cla-Min, Shaya, and Draith enter into more stable and specific sexual dynamics with Rowan.