Should Devs Hate F95?

[dusty stu]

I get the feeling that about 30% of devs consider f95 to be an annoying/illegal shareware/pirating site. I've seen this attitude a few times. They have a point, though. One person buys the Patreon edition and shares it here. Suddenly, users have much less incentive to become a backer.

If the dev tries to add drm, then there is almost always a huge backlash. It's a lose-lose, and I'm sure its frustrating to devs everywhere.

What do you think Devs should do to incentivize users to subscribe or buy the game?

Context:
https://f95zone.to/threads/breeders...a-derelicthelmsman.2483/page-307#post-4817398

 

[jamdan]

One of the biggest incentivizes devs can do to make people support their game is to have an account on here and interact with fans and potential fans.

Most patrons/subscribers find the games on here and other sites like it. That is why many devs, including big ones, have accounts on here. A lot of them even post their game themselves.

 

[Archaon11111]

If a person really enjoys the work they will support it no matter how easily pirated it is. F95 is great for small time western devs to gain followers but I think absolute shit for big time devs with huge internet presence or Japanese devs since very few will pay on the Japanese web stores.

I support 4 patreons that all have easily accesible pirated content but I know my money helps keep the project alive.

I think devs get more pissed about how people act sometimes especially if they're present in a thread. I see there's always so much nagging or constant self entitlement especially from pirates that must be frustrating that makes devs not want to be part of the community.

The worst of all through I think is from snitches, I heard on 4chan that some porn games got banned on patreon because users on f95 reported the game [nymphomania priestess etc].

But in conclusion games will be pirated either way and best devs can do is play their cards right with their projects and they can make money with this pirate community since its big on the porn internet and attention is always good.

 

[Laikhent]

F95 certainly does more good than harm for the devs because of the marketing factor. Many patrons will support the game even if they have access to the pirated version.
On the context you mentioned, it was a situation where F95 was mentioned on a channel where everyone already knew about the game, so, maybe on that case, it would be nicer for the dev if you don't mention the site.

 

[Archaon11111]

F95 certainly does more good than harm for the devs because of the marketing factor. Many patrons will support the game even if they have access to the pirated version.
On the context you mentioned, it was a situation where F95 was mentioned on a channel where everyone already knew about the game, so, maybe on that case, it would be nicer for the dev if you don't mention the site.

Yeah this goes in with my example of big time devs, like you don't go to a offical paradox forums or any steam forums and talk about piracy that shit gets you insta perma banned so I don't see why it should be any different with big time patreon devs on their own channel.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

Can't speak for others, but we've poured so much time and energy into our project that we just want people to play it once we release the first build, pirates or not. Obscurity is the enemy of art, regardless if its music or smut or something else entirely.

Also, there's no way to stop piracy. If Activision and EA and Ubisoft can't stop it, then some random indie porn devs form bumfuck nowhere sure as hell won't be able to either. The people who want to support a dev will do so, either through monthly pledges for ongoing projects or by buying a finished one; most folks who pirate games wouldn't have given them any money in the first place, so it's not much of a loss of revenue.

You could argue that it's stealing, but digital media is in a unique place since it can be reproduced without limit (not like baked good or cars or whatever, which you need materials to produce, and are finite). And even people who don't pay a dime can still support devs by talking about their game, reporting bugs, getting others interested in it, offering suggestions, etc. There's more ways to support a project than with money.

Obviously, devs tend to prioritize those who fund them, and this is only natural. People who support a game on Patreon or wherever also receive extra content, but most do it because they believe in a game and want to see it completed! They don't care who else plays it, as long as their dev delivers and takes into account their feedback.

So to answer the OP's question: most devs' time and energy is better spent creating content and polishing their game, than fucking around trying to put in half-baked DRM which will piss of their legitimate fans while still getting cracked even faster than whatever flavor-of-the-month protection big studios use (which takes, what, half a day to burn through for most scene groups?).

TL;DR: Devs should focus on making quality games, not worrying about things they can't change.

 

[Adabelitoo]

I met this site after googling "Dreams Of Desire Ep 12" because I didn't have 40USD to pay and get access to the last update and I didn't want to wait only god knows how many years until the dev decides to make it public (2 years and it's still Patreon exclusive according to him).

Two years later and now I'm a dev thanks to DoD. Was my game leaked here? Of course, but the only thing I dislike about that is that every new update could have bugs and I'd prefer to release it for supporters only the first week so they can test it and then publish a clean version here, instead of letting everyone play a bugged game and show them how dumb I can be.

I make my game public in a week or less, the "piracy" side really doesn't make any sense for me. I don't think anyone should pay to play this games. I think people should only pay to support the games they like, and people can do that no matter where they get the game from.

 

[Taboo-Sho]

I personally think its a double edged sword.

Its not that great for western devs in the sense that some people just lurk for free games, but its good as it does cast a wider net for bug catching. More people you have playing it the more likely a bug is found, and people are willing to try things for free most of the time. As well if they are active here and allow their game to be pirated here, they only makes the look better in most peoples eyes. "Hey this person is fine with the pateron only version being passed around, I should support them for being that cool."

The other end is Japanese/DLsite alot of us don't have real access to get games off DLsite or dont wanna jump through all the CC/Paypal hoops to do it. I found I like some Jap dev games and told people about them, who went and got legit copies (At least one person has told me they bought a came from a circle/dev they found another game they liked.)

Of course there are some who just outright cant really afford to buy/donate/ETC.

 

[woody554]

I don't want to talk on anyone's behalf, but I've always looked at online 'piracy' as free global advertizing and volunteer marketing. it blows my mind that there are people in the world PAYING to show a limited amount of ads, while simultaneously doing all they can to stop people doing the same for them on enormously bigger scale for FREE.

nobody can pay you for anything if they've never even heard about your stuff, while fans will pay you far above any reasonable amount just to support you.

 

[Droid Productions]

It's a general good, especially for the patreon-funded games. It helps build an audience, raise awareness, find bugs, and bring in patreon support for the developers. I get that people who are primarily Steam funded disagree; there the incentives aren't as equally balanced.

 

[freedom.call]

Dunno what they should do. What I do know is I wouldn't have found these games and supported some of them without F95.

As for protecting the game I also wouldn't support or buy without trying for free first (WIP). Finished games? Not on my radar.

 

[Buddawg]

Its a double edged sword... in their minds only.

Make payments like patreon available to ppl, and piracy wont be that big a problem.
Its a problem in your mind if you see, 1000 supporters, but 20.000 downloads. An old mindset of each pirate download = loss of money.
But every single piracy study shows one conclusive statement, piracy helps sales.
Yes the absolute top tier might have a little loss, but considering their income at that point, its neglible.. and In my mind, absolutly irrelevant.

Im not just convinced but certain, that more than 90% of the games here profit from even being on this board.
There are games here that rake in a lot (because they are good games) and only have two places they actually release.. patreon and f95. There are devs who started here, and then moved to open patreon because support of the game was that good.

Seriously, devs whining about piracy are a breed of greed, who cant get over the obsolete fact that copy=sale, and thus is always a net loss. Its inevitable, the more youre getting pirated, the more youre gonna earn... every single time.
Its also proven that most piracy downloads, would not result in a sale if you couldnt pirate it, but that a LOT of pirates actually pay after pirating.
Piracy is pretty much in the end, the greatest advertisement you can get, on top of being the very best at telling you if your game is actually as good as you think.

 

[Baka plays]

I developed for over 6-7 months(with one abandoned project) and didn´t got nowhere. Neither feedback nor sales.
Which was frustrating at times. But i kept going, had one aquantaince asking me if he could share my VN here and after a short time of consideration i said "cool do it". I didn´t had anything to loose anyway.
After a slow start i got a good amount of feedback and have a whole 9 patrons now which i think come from f95. That´s preferable to lurk around patreon for months on end without any kind of recognition because, you know, we don´t show up in their regular searches.
The community is growing and the interaction is fun so far. That is something i see as a form of payback too. So i´m definitely ok with having my VN shared here.

 

[Domiek]

F95 Staff (Good): A nice platform to advertise games. Constantly providing devs with free or cheap help (Iray server, main page promotion, giveaways).

F95 Normal People (Good): Can get the game for free but some support the games they like knowing that this shit isn't cheap and is very time-consuming. Others don't financially support but don't complain when playing games for free. Some provide good feedback and even offer assistance such as proofreading.

F95 Karen's(Bad): Entitled, demanding, possible brain damage. Likes to be the victim despite never losing anything other than time spent playing a free game that would have otherwise been spent researching Gay 5G vaccine chips. Likes to directly message devs asking or demanding the game be tailored to their preferences while never offering any sort of support. Comes up with crazy conspiracy theories of how devs scam people for less than minimum wage.

Conclusion: Devs have no reason to hate F95 and all the reason to love it. Piracy likely has a lot less impact than most think. Most of the negatives of F95 aren't specific to F95. Just like any community, there are a lot of knuckledraggers mixed into the bunch.

 

[mickydoo]

If your game is not pirated it means no ones likes it.

 

[baneini]

There's cultural differences between devs, japs have hard time accepting piracy, russians aren't as sensitive to english f95 community backlash, 1st world people are very used to piracy since childhood.
F95 doesnt prioritize the profitability of a game so thats always going to cause annoyance to devs even if they dont voice it. Like theres forums that talk about the game but they're not making it similarly convenient to get it for free which drives more people to pay for it.
Devs that particularly cater to f95 as a way to market their product then have an advantage compared to devs who got started elsewhere, one likes the system they're used to and others suffer more because they're operating in a different environment.
If your main platform is f95 and you dont have presence elsewhere you prob know what the working strategies are. Spam reply community, have 1 month priority for paypigs and so on.

 

[Turning Japanese]

Crowdfunding and piracy are just two sides of the same coin.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I developed for over 6-7 months(with one abandoned project) and didn´t got nowhere. Neither feedback nor sales.
Which was frustrating at times. But i kept going, had one aquantaince asking me if he could share my VN here and after a short time of consideration i said "cool do it". I didn´t had anything to loose anyway.
After a slow start i got a good amount of feedback and have a whole 9 patrons now which i think come from f95. That´s preferable to lurk around patreon for months on end without any kind of recognition because, you know, we don´t show up in their regular searches.
The community is growing and the interaction is fun so far. That is something i see as a form of payback too. So i´m definitely ok with having my VN shared here.

Well that is the thing with Patreon. They don't market your creation. How good you are at market yourself and your creation is the deciding factor. Plaster your creation on every adult site you can find on internet, even a trailer on pornhub, whatever.. would go a long way.

 

[K.T.L.]

It's a common fallacy perpetrated by the big studios looking for protectionism from politicians that every copy pirated is a lost sale.

If it wasn't possible to pirate things, the vast majority of those people wouldn't bother at all. Instead of the income going up as some of these studios have been told would happen, the actual result is that the number of downloads and thus views of their game, film, music, whatever would go down.

In my most humble opinion, piracy is far less of a threat to a developer than obscurity. How they handle the inevitable, however, is entirely up to them.

 

[DeadPotato]

As a dev, F95 has only helped with my project's growth and awareness than anything. Every time I update the game page here, the download metrics always see a huge spike upwards (with luck, a few new patrons as well)!

I get to interact with the players of my game, as well as respond to any problems they might have (if they're not already in the discord server). It's where I do weekly posts about how the game's coming along. Overall I think, it's pretty great!

As for the matter of piracy, I don't think it's a problem at all.
If I have 10 patrons now, but every single update I push out have over 2000 downloads. That doesn't mean I'm losing out on 1990 people worth of profit. That just means I have 1990 people to win over to the paying side! From the way I see it, that's not losses, that's potential! Maybe it's just my optimistic way of viewing things though, and I'm completely wrong and naïve.