Should Devs Hate F95?

[Endrju]

I personally believe that none of us would exist without places like F95.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. There is no other way for putting your project out there and getting support needed for doing it constantly with expected improvement, it's porn we are talking about here after all. You want to skip all of that? Go legit, spend months and years on a project that have 1% chance to be noticed. Here, in our small and closed off community even mediocre or straight up shit games are noticed and getting support (i am not jumping on anyone) so pick your poison.
There is only one truth to all of that, every single person who plays your game is a potential supporter. It doesn't even have to be money, just talking to their friends about it, with people on the discord they are in. They can talk about something that impressed them or grabbed their guts. Maybe they cried, maybe they came harder than ever before.
So in the end, you don’t get enough support? Be original. Do your own thing, don't copy other overused ideas. Rethink your strategy. Look for what people like. Hire the fucking writer or buy a legit story. There are endless possibilities, posing and rendering isn’t enough anymore so yeah I do think that crying on the pirate site about DRM is ridiculous.

 

[kraoro]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I personally think the entire Patreon model is bullshit. If someone makes a game, then sells that game, assuming it's something I'm interested in, then I will buy your game; that's especially true of indie devs. What I won't do is pay your fucking rent while you make it. It's a bigger scam than buying Early Access games on Steam, because at least on Steam EA, you only have to pay for a game once while you wait for it to be finished and become less shit.

 

[DiddlerGames]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I personally think the entire Patreon model is bullshit. If someone makes a game, then sells that game, assuming it's something I'm interested in, then I will buy your game; that's especially true of indie devs. What I won't do is pay your fucking rent while you make it. It's a bigger scam than buying Early Access games on Steam, because at least on Steam EA, you only have to pay for a game once while you wait for it to be finished and become less shit.

The difference is a lot of those companies have grants and business accounts and business loans that pay all their bills and rent. If I were making a legitimate indie game I was gonna market and sell on steam or epic games or whatever, I could get a media and arts loan from my government to pay for my bills while I work on it, and I would probably also use patreon. I think the problem is those that get high amounts of money and don't put in the amount of work that would reflect that money.

Also, you gotta think, if you are paying $5 a month, that's a full priced game after a year, or less, if you live on countries where games cost more. The one good thing about patreon is you can do a 1 time donation of whatever amount you want, at least I believe you can. So you can still go and give a dev you like $30 bucks for their games.

 

[Alcahest]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I personally think the entire Patreon model is bullshit. If someone makes a game, then sells that game, assuming it's something I'm interested in, then I will buy your game; that's especially true of indie devs. What I won't do is pay your fucking rent while you make it. It's a bigger scam than buying Early Access games on Steam, because at least on Steam EA, you only have to pay for a game once while you wait for it to be finished and become less shit.

It is no scam in any sense of the word (unless there is an actual scam, like Gumdrop Games) since everyone knows what they are paying for and no one is forcing them to pay. The Patreon model, for the adult games we are talking about, is like paying a monthly subscription for cable to see a new episode of a show every week. Sure you can wait the year or two, or ten, it takes before the show gets finished and then pay once to binge-watch the whole thing, but if you want to see new episodes right away you pay the monthly fee (or download the pirate release). That is assuming the show ever gets finished in a good, wrapped-up way. TV shows get cancelled without enough support, so can adult games.

 

[TessSadist]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I personally think the entire Patreon model is bullshit. If someone makes a game, then sells that game, assuming it's something I'm interested in, then I will buy your game; that's especially true of indie devs. What I won't do is pay your fucking rent while you make it. It's a bigger scam than buying Early Access games on Steam, because at least on Steam EA, you only have to pay for a game once while you wait for it to be finished and become less shit.

That's fine if that's your perspective, but the fact that the Patreon model has a very robust set of financial metrics over many years is persuasive evidence that many people are fine with this model. I think you are also quite dismissive of many game devs working really hard in good faith by calling their work "a bigger scam than buying Early Access games" as a statement applying on a macro level to everyone. Different financial models of supporting creative work exist because there are many different types of circumstances and situations with many creative endeavors. Most devs here I imagine are solo or small teams with very limited resources. Many games on this site likely never get made without a Patreon model of some kind. Yes, there are scams and milkers that can be negative, but on the whole, it's probably a net gain for everyone involved. (the devs, the people playing games for free that will never support anyone, this site, the supports, etc.)

If a Patreon like model of supporting creators was a scam on a macro level consistently, this model would not exist at all. People would abandon such a flawed model quickly. That's not to say there aren't "milkers" or bad devs, but it's completely illogical and frankly limited thinking to apply the behavior of those kinds of devs to the entirety of why Patreon is...as you say...a "bullshit" model. It's also not very respectful to the many - certainly not all but certainly some - devs that are always working in good faith, and working hard in earnest fashion to make a fun experience for their Patrons. I think for a few devs I know, it really is the only way they could even try and make a game. They do value the money being given to them and try to make that faith in them pay off for their pledgers. It's fine if you don't agree with their model of trying to support their efforts, it's quite another thing to ascribe that as a scam. Now if an individual dev is scamming, then by all means, call them out fairly because they are out there.

Also, not every dev is using Patreon money for rent or anything else, I certainly have not spent a dime of Patreon income yet I have earned on anything personally except the game and hardware, and a once a week meal while I write weekly updates. And even if the devs are surviving off it, and the people supporting them are ok with that and being given honest work and effort for their investment, who's really being harmed?

My speculation - and I admit it's speculation not backed by solid metrics - is that this site is very helpful for newer devs seeking exposure, but at some point, it starts to generate diminishing returns versus how it performed at first. I wish the mods here were more consistent (some seem amazing, others don't even respond to reports and if I was running the site I would require every report to at least get acknowledged as received and answered -- and you never know who it is) but all in all, the site seems really good. They also support some great initiatives like smaller devs awards, the contests, and even now a render farm! I mean, for a "pirate" site, it seems pretty dev friendly! And last, yeah, there are some poor posters on here because anonymity can create trolls and morons, but all in all, a lot of people are great! I wouldn't bother posting here if it wasn't for the actual posters that are often great, etc.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Also, you gotta think, if you are paying $5 a month, that's a full priced game after a year, or less, if you live on countries where games cost more. The one good thing about patreon is you can do a 1 time donation of whatever amount you want, at least I believe you can. So you can still go and give a dev you like $30 bucks for their games.

5 bucks a month for a year is 60 bucks. Now you are into "triple A" game prices. Take a deep long look at the games around, NONE of these come even close to being a "triple A" title. You have creators with tiers that goes up to 20 bucks a month or even more. Fuck, you have creators that paywall content at higher tiers as well. You can't look at this as buying a game. If you look at games that managed to get over to steam like "Man of the house", 16-17 bucks, "Being a dick season 1", around 10 bucks, "Being a dick season 1 + acting lessons 16-17 bucks"... So would a more realistic pledge for people being a buck a month?

Basically, adult game creators on Patreon is like stripers... they keep shake their boobies as long as we toss money.... You get a itch and walk home with blue balls... But you knew very well what you spent money on.... (and why).

 

[DiddlerGames]

5 bucks a month for a year is 60 bucks. Now you are into "triple A" game prices. Take a deep long look at the games around, NONE of these come even close to being a "triple A" title. You have creators with tiers that goes up to 20 bucks a month or even more. Fuck, you have creators that paywall content at higher tiers as well. You can't look at this as buying a game. If you look at games that managed to get over to steam like "Man of the house", 16-17 bucks, "Being a dick season 1", around 10 bucks, "Being a dick season 1 + acting lessons 16-17 bucks"... So would a more realistic pledge for people being a buck a month?

Basically, adult game creators on Patreon is like stripers... they keep shake their boobies as long as we toss money.... You get a itch and walk home with blue balls... But you knew very well what you spent money on.... (and why).

You give it whatever value you give it. Some people gave star citizen tens of thousands of dollars. I buy games only on sale or used. Last 3 games I bought were $20 each. Originally $80.

 

[Joshua Tree]

You give it whatever value you give it. Some people gave star citizen tens of thousands of dollars. I buy games only on sale or used. Last 3 games I bought were $20 each. Originally $80.

Of course, you spend whatever you want. I try limit most purchases on steam to when things on sales. And refuse to buy "epic exclusives" before they eventually end up on steam and like half price.

When it come to adult game creators on Patreon, I can find myself pledge a few months if I think the game is good, I see it as tip the jar, and I have no bad feelings about keep download the game afterwards.

As for Star Citizen.. I remember way back playing "Freelancer" by Chris Roberts, and was thinking Star Citizen should be good. Fast forward several years.... Yeah he was laughing all the way to the bank....

 

[DiddlerGames]

Of course, you spend whatever you want. I try limit most purchases on steam to when things on sales. And refuse to buy "epic exclusives" before they eventually end up on steam and like half price.

When it come to adult game creators on Patreon, I can find myself pledge a few months if I think the game is good, I see it as tip the jar, and I have no bad feelings about keep download the game afterwards.

As for Star Citizen.. I remember way back playing "Freelancer" by Chris Roberts, and was thinking Star Citizen should be good. Fast forward several years.... Yeah he was laughing all the way to the bank....

Laughing all the way to his own island where he probably launches actual shit into space. The tip jar way is a great way to look at it. From my personal stand point, I wouldn't ask anyone to sub to my patreon for "extra work". Things like "will hire voice actors" or "will add animations". Those are all things I will be doing regardless of how much money I get. Why give other people the ability to hurt my projects? I'll just make my stuff and hope enough people like it to give me enough money. Maybe Sakimichan levels money lol.

 

[Haaraka]

Why shouldn't they like this site?
It helps them get noticed with the niche crowds they are aiming for.
Indie devs should know what kind of business they are running into.
Don't expect to start out big in hentai games.

 

[TheHighSpire]

I don't think they should hate F95. It provides them a whole platform to market their game on. As other people also have highlighted; not only is it a platform for marketing, it is literally free bug finding and feedback.

I can understand when some behemoth company finds it frustrating when their games are pirated. They don't need the extra marketing in pirating sites. They usually also deliver a finished product (or something, lol), or at least pledge to finish it up. These privately funded games don't always finish, making your backing for naught. Then, lastly and most crucially, most large companies also attract a very wide group of people.

That last point is incredibly important. Porn/adult games are not everybody's cup of tea and certainly not everybody has of heard of them. Having a platform for people who are actively interested in these games is a massive boon to small scale companies who would otherwise have a difficult time reaching an audience.

 

[Meteoroid Studio]

I think Devs should be happy for F95. It's a good place to trade feedback, and obviously improve. I don't think DRM would also add any improvement. In the end, it's all about quality. We can see that in other markets, even Cyberpunk 2077 is DRM Free is sells very, very well.
Maybe a good marketing teams makes up for the DRM? Maybe that is another interesting questions!

 

[CarbonBlue]

As a developer I kinda love F95. There are occasional dicks, sure, but I can honestly say that without F95 I would not be a developer. Without the dev help section and people helping idiots like me figure out coding, I would not have a game.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I think Devs should be happy for F95. It's a good place to trade feedback, and obviously improve. I don't think DRM would also add any improvement. In the end, it's all about quality. We can see that in other markets, even Cyberpunk 2077 is DRM Free is sells very, very well.
Maybe a good marketing teams makes up for the DRM? Maybe that is another interesting questions!

Uh, to use the phrase "even Cyberpunk 2077 is DRM Free" doesn't really do much when CDPROJEKT RED have always had drm free games. Their game store (gog.com), run with the same principles. Their mantra always been make good games and people will support you. Regardless of bugs and flaws, on PC Cyberpunk is a good game, and if they invest just as much into fix it up etc as they did with Witcher 3, it will turn out great in the end

 

[Cokane0]

f95 is the shit. Love this place.
Also, I am a pirate, long live piracy, ARRRRGGGGGGGGGG!
I'm legit gonna go listen to sea shantys, Fuck the Queen! British empire can get fucked.

 

[oshtoshashlyk]

I'm sure I'm not the only user here who will simply never pay for an erotic game without being able to try it out first. Without people uploading erotic games here I would simply not consume erotic games at all. I don't mind dishing out money for something I like, but I can't know if I like it until I get to actually try it.

 

[overstrom]

Same piracy question in some developing countries, developers like Blizzard gains fame but not money, people plays pirated versions won't be directly translate to buyers due to many reasons. Unfortunately, many developers don't see it that way and go on in a self destructive way to purge it.

 

[TheHighSpire]

Same piracy question in some developing countries, developers like Blizzard gains fame but not money, people plays pirated versions won't be directly translate to buyers due to many reasons. Unfortunately, many developers don't see it that way and go on in a self destructive way to purge it.

I believe I addressed that part in my comment. I believe that piracy and places like F95 can be beneficial to small companies who in this case has a very specific and niche segment - and also don't always have the means to reach their audience effectively otherwise. This place thus serves as a hub for people to get interested, try out the game and perhaps back them.

It's a completely different story for large companies likes Blizzard, Ubisoft, EA etc etc. These companies already have fame and the means to reach their target audience. Whether by commercials, friends telling each other about this new game and large announcements etc. As such, large companies gains nothing from having their games pirated. Furthermore, these behemoths aren't blind either, they have skilled people working for them who also make this calculation; do we struggle reaching our audience to such a degree that we will have to rely on pirating sites? The answer is no.

 

[hazzi]

i think its a double edged sword for them. the games i've supported so far has been because i found their game on this site.

 

[VNON]

if the devs if benefited by this site, they shouldn't
if not let them hate this site

beside 99% of them is not releasing a completed game
their backers will solely depend on the quality and quantity their game itself
and i believe there is a lot of respectful rich people in here who will gladly supporting them

i also wondering if their supporters know about f95zone?

imo
F95zone / mods is more lean toward the devs than random members in here