Should Devs Hate F95?

[DiddlerGames]

Patreon's cut is actually far more reasonable than most other middlemen in the industry (Steam, for example, takes 30%. If you're hit with US withholding tax on royalty derived revenue, that's another 30%). Patreon, because it's not classified as royalty derived revenue, avoid that. At 8%, it's a significantly lower overhead. You could of course set up to sell directly from your own website, but financially that's not working out great for most people (and the most popular options, like Paypal, will police your content for you).

Not to mention, some of those platforms demand comlanies pay them for updates and storing game files. Steam has almost 0 QC for uploading, but, with patreon, the patrons are the QC. There has been many people who upload broken and bad games. While that does happen on patreon, they are less likely to get funding, because again, patron QC.

Just build your own payment processor bro.

Stop triggering me bro.

 

[Staimh]

Isn't the answer to this: It depends on the intentions of the developer.

I have never developed a porn game but I have over a number of years compiled a number of puzzles which I have made freely available because its a hobby and nothing more. The occasional "enjoyed that" feedback is all my ego craves.

So I guess developers could be
> Purely hobbyists and are happy for the exposure: F95 great.
> Hobbyists who want the exposure but are very happy to accrue any financial thank yous: F95 helpful.
> Developers who aspire to full life remuneration from games but are not there yet: F95 initially helpful but possibly becoming less so.
> Developers who have achieved full life remuneration: F95 is probably largely irrelevant.

Outside of the Pure Hobbyist I'm guessing so feel free to correct appropriately.

 

[ihl86]

I think that F95 is a very big part of marketing a new game/developer.
I actually found there are VNs from my normal porn torrent site. Because there, the game don't get posted too often, I decided to search on the web for that game and found F95. F95 allowed me to then find a lot more games to try. From which I supported a few I liked and wanted to encourage further development. I am at the moment without a job, started developing my own VN so I stopped supporting at the moment but if/when I start making enough money again, I will again start supporting.
I would consider supporting a game for 3 reasons:

1. I think the dev made a good/great game/with good potential and I want to see how it develops.
2. I like the game and I think the dev needs support to be able to continue developing the game
3. I like the game but maybe the dev does not have enough support yet to make releases big enough/often enough for my liking and I think that with increased support he will be able to do that either by purchasing new equipment or hiring some outside help

None of those reasons are access to the game.
For a game like Being a DiK, which I like, but the Dev is too big for me to consider supporting him, I will most likely purchase the final version on Steam.

In conclusion, I think F95 and piracy in general helps almost everyone. I mean, there are big games that I would not have heard about without F95 (milky city for example). Now I don't support that game because the dev made that huge break in development and he is also very huge. But if he publishes a final version of the game at a reasonable price I might consider buying it, since I played and enjoyed his game (even if the story is so bad at times).

As a final note I want to say that I plan to release my game here at the same time or even before Patreon, once it has a decent version to play. It's the easiest free marketing I can think of.

 

[ThompsonBalo]

If a person really enjoys the work they will support it no matter how easily pirated it is. F95 is great for small time western devs to gain followers but I think absolute shit for big time devs with huge internet presence or Japanese devs since very few will pay on the Japanese web stores.

I support 4 patreons that all have easily accesible pirated content but I know my money helps keep the project alive.

I think devs get more pissed about how people act sometimes especially if they're present in a thread. I see there's always so much nagging or constant self entitlement especially from pirates that must be frustrating that makes devs not want to be part of the community.

The worst of all through I think is from snitches, I heard on 4chan that some porn games got banned on patreon because users on f95 reported the game [nymphomania priestess etc].

But in conclusion games will be pirated either way and best devs can do is play their cards right with their projects and they can make money with this pirate community since its big on the porn internet and attention is always good.

The thing with japanese games is, that about 95% of all japanese games on f95 are inofficial and fan translated games that would otherwise never be even seen outside of Japan because no international version exists at all and was never planed. Therefore I doubt that Japanese devs actually care much about international sales and even if they do, it is still their fault if they don`t translate their games into English and region lock it so you can only play with Japanese local emulator. I don`t see the point to pay for a game that was never intended to be sold outside of Japan with no English translation where I have to use a local emulator software and that I can solely play because some fan took his time, translated and uploaded it here in the first place. It is not about paying on japanese web stores, it is about paying for a useless untranslated, Japan only version of the game.

Either you make the effort to actually support and promote your game outside your country or it shouldn`t bother you that people pirate it outside your country, you wouldn`t have sold any copies otherwise anyway because no one would have ever heard about it or wouldn`t be able to play it because he can`t read japanese. They literally lose no money with that because Japanese people would still buy the Japanese version instead of pirating the fan translated English one.

I support great games that I really like and can actually buy officially as an international or at least English version, so I can play it because the developer itself put his effort into it to bring the game to us and if they don`t then they seemingly didn`t want the money. I do support people like Kagura games that take the effort to bring those games to us and take the effort to make an international version.

 

[peterppp]

The thing with japanese games is, that about 95% of all japanese games on f95 are inofficial and fan translated games that would otherwise never be even seen outside of Japan because no international version exists at all and was never planed. Therefore I doubt that Japanese devs actually care much about international sales and even if they do, it is still their fault if they don`t translate their games into English and region lock it so you can only play with Japanese local emulator. I don`t see the point to pay for a game that was never intended to be sold outside of Japan with no English translation where I have to use a local emulator software and that I can solely play because some fan took his time, translated and uploaded it here in the first place. It is not about paying on japanese web stores, it is about paying for a useless untranslated, Japan only version of the game.

Either you make the effort to actually support and promote your game outside your country or it shouldn`t bother you that people pirate it outside your country, you wouldn`t have sold any copies otherwise anyway because no one would have ever heard about it or wouldn`t be able to play it because he can`t read japanese. They literally lose no money with that because Japanese people would still buy the Japanese version instead of pirating the fan translated English one.

I support great games that I really like and can actually buy officially as an international or at least English version, so I can play it because the developer itself put his effort into it to bring the game to us and if they don`t then they seemingly didn`t want the money. I do support people like Kagura games that take the effort to bring those games to us and take the effort to make an international version.

While they probably don't lose much money from it, if any, that doesn't change the fact that you could support them, making them earn more money from their game, by buying the game even if you can't play it. Not supporting them, is still not supporting them. It's like if someone releases a ren'py game but without an android version and someone releases an unofficial android version. If it works, and you play it and want more updates of the game, then supporting the game creator's patreon means supporting continued updates of the game, even if you can't play the official version. What the game creators care about, or whose fault it is that they don't release a version you can play, doesn't matter. It's about whether you want to financially support them, and future releases, or not.

 

[ThompsonBalo]

While they probably don't lose much money from it, if any, that doesn't change the fact that you could support them, making them earn more money from their game, by buying the game even if you can't play it. Not supporting them, is still not supporting them. It's like if someone releases a ren'py game but without an android version and someone releases an unofficial android version. If it works, and you play it and want more updates of the game, then supporting the game creator's patreon means supporting continued updates of the game, even if you can't play the official version. What the game creators care about, or whose fault it is that they don't release a version you can play, doesn't matter. It's about whether you want to financially support them, and future releases, or not.

Seems like you don`t get my point accross. First of all as mentioned it doesn`t matter if I give them my money or not when it comes to making their profit because they are solely Japan oriented anyway and that brings me to the important second part. If we start to pay them for their games while they are too lazy to public them for non Japanese people, why should they ever bother considering to make any international version at all?

The best thing we can hope for is, that they realize many people outside their country play their games as unofficial fantranslations and make the effort to actually make a better official version themself with an online shop that does not require you studying Japanese to not accidentally buy something else.

Sure they might like making games, but like any company money is mostly their sole motivation when it comes to doing something like an international version. If you give them their money anyway for not giving a damn about you and provide you with absolutely nothing, you won`t change anything.

So if you like to pay for a Japanese version of a game that you can`t even play as it is, just because you played a shitty MTL fan knockoff of it and have to use third party software to even be able to play the game then be my guest. But if you want to see Japanese game developer to actually make the effort and realize that the world has a bigger market to offer than just the Japanese one, then maybe not pay for it. I for myself would rather pay the guy that made the fantranslation.

 

[Archaon11111]

Either you make the effort to actually support and promote your game outside your country or it shouldn`t bother you that people pirate it outside your country, you wouldn`t have sold any copies otherwise anyway because no one would have ever heard about it or wouldn`t be able to play it because he can`t read japanese. They literally lose no money with that because Japanese people would still buy the Japanese version instead of pirating the fan translated English one.

Not really their fault on that mark though western laws are strict on the stuff they sell. Heck the Australians and their shitty laws pretty much banned hentai from ever being bought legally there. Plus its really not that profitable for them to even translate it in the first place unless you're a major studio with big name presence and even those mainly put their stuff on the japanese sites only since still those are the only places they can sell them without strict western rules.

 

[khumak]

Patreon's cut is actually far more reasonable than most other middlemen in the industry (Steam, for example, takes 30%. If you're hit with US withholding tax on royalty derived revenue, that's another 30%). Patreon, because it's not classified as royalty derived revenue, avoid that. At 8%, it's a significantly lower overhead. You could of course set up to sell directly from your own website, but financially that's not working out great for most people (and the most popular options, like Paypal, will police your content for you).

Interesting. I didn't realize Patreon's cut was that small. I just assumed it was 30% like Steam. I do think they have such a larger audience than you'd find on Patreon that even with that 30% cut you might have the potential to make more on Steam than on Patreon but I haven't seen enough stats comparing the two to really know. It's just a gut feeling. Would be curious to know how things have played out for devs who have both. Do you make more from Patreon or from your Steam sales for a game that's available on both?

I think the customer base might be different as well on Patreon vs Steam. People buying on Steam are the more typical customer who buys a finished product and it's a done deal. Patreon supporters are more like a go fund me campaign who want a front row seat to watch a dev they like show them what they can do and allow them to play through the game in stages as it's developed. I think a lot of people on Steam wouldn't have as much interest in playing a v0.1 of something that only has 30 mins of content or whatever. They want the finished product.

 

[Droid Productions]

Interesting. I didn't realize Patreon's cut was that small. I just assumed it was 30% like Steam. I do think they have such a larger audience than you'd find on Patreon that even with that 30% cut you might have the potential to make more on Steam than on Patreon but I haven't seen enough stats comparing the two to really know. It's just a gut feeling. Would be curious to know how things have played out for devs who have both. Do you make more from Patreon or from your Steam sales for a game that's available on both?

I think the customer base might be different as well on Patreon vs Steam. People buying on Steam are the more typical customer who buys a finished product and it's a done deal. Patreon supporters are more like a go fund me campaign who want a front row seat to watch a dev they like show them what they can do and allow them to play through the game in stages as it's developed. I think a lot of people on Steam wouldn't have as much interest in playing a v0.1 of something that only has 30 mins of content or whatever. They want the finished product.

Love of Magic is on both. Financially, Steam launch had a significantly bigger 'bump' than my monthly Patreon. It led to a small influx of new patreons, as well as long-tail. I'll be putting future updates to the game as free updates on Steam; we'll see if that gives me any traction. One thing that was a real annoyance was that Germany was 16% of all sales, until Valve cut access for Adult games to the store.

 

[Drages]

Every human got his own idea and plan. You need to respect everyone's decision. Maybe some of you are right as F95 is a holy grail for devs, but not every dev should act for it and think that way.

Here, there are some good people and some toxic ones too. If you think that F95 is a great place for everyone, there should be a moderation for those kind of people to make here clean for the devs.. I don't think it's happening.

So devs judge what is better for them. Not you. This is their decision and you need to respect it.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

No, because most of the devs also go and say:

Spoiler

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[FemdomWifeGame]

Game activity:



Patreon subscriptions:



Love on F95

 

[dusty stu]

Game activity:

View attachment 1029393

Patreon subscriptions:

View attachment 1029394

Love on F95

overlay your revinue / subscriptions trendline on top

 

[Malicre]

I have a question about the opposite perspective: rather than "how to benefit from f95", how to stop benefitting from f95. I was thinking about releasing something here. But then I thought, what if at some point I don't want it to be available anymore? For whatever reason.

I know that once you put something on the web, it's out there. But try looking for something you had on a website from more than 5 years ago. Chances are that it is gone for good. So the question is, if I don't want a game to "haunt" f95 as an abandoned game years later, will I be able to remove it or not?

I understand the archival perspective, but surely the will of the dev should have the precedence ...?

Sounds like an asshole move to me, get all recognition and paying fans you need then decide to leave the site. If any dev i supported ever did this they wouldn't ever get another dime from me.

EDIT: I do think F95zone needs to cleanse "abandoned" games.

 

[InCompleteController]

EDIT: I do think F95zone needs to cleanse "abandoned" games.

Why? Does a game instantly go bad when the dev has decided to no longer continue working on it?

Maybe archive in some way. Some "Abandoned" games still have a fair amount of enjoyable content.

Again, why? Who will be the arbiter of which games are complete and which are abandoned?

This will just lead to tag abuse where dishonest devs will simply claim their game to be complete, rather than abandoned, so that the thread will continue to be active, rather than locked or deleted.
This is already an issue with the abandoned tag, where a dev can simply claim to work on a game every so often, to prevent it from getting tagged, but never actually release anything new.

 

[anne O'nymous]

EDIT: I do think F95zone needs to cleanse "abandoned" games.

The problem is that there's two kind of "abandoned" games.
Some are tagged as it because the author officially abandoned his game, or really disappeared (no more Patreon page by example), but some are just tagged as it because they weren't updates since a really long time. And it appear that, time to time an abandoned game come back to life after a long time.

 

[Malicre]

Why? Does a game instantly go bad when the dev has decided to no longer continue working on it?


Again, why? Who will be the arbiter of which games are complete and which are abandoned?

This will just lead to tag abuse where dishonest devs will simply claim their game to be complete, rather than abandoned, so that the thread will continue to be active, rather than locked or deleted.
This is already an issue with the abandoned tag, where a dev can simply claim to work on a game every so often, to prevent it from getting tagged, but never actually release anything new.

Yea games do go bad if they are no longer supported, heroes of the storm by blizzard virtually died over night when they said they would no longer support the esports aspect of it and literally everyone quit playing it. Games in development also take a huge hit if they get delayed or abandoned just look at Scalebound which was supposed to be a launch title for the xbox one, that game will never see the light of day now.

Abandoned games do nothing good for this site except make people have to sift threw more and more games to find something they could fully enjoy. Now obviously the search system can alleviate most of those problem by using the search system with proper tags but some times things just get lost in the mix and not to mention having the games being listed as "abandoned" doesn't look very well when people are browsing the catalog.

F95zone is increasing in popularity every year so what's going to happen 10 years from now when we have over 1000 pages of games and more 600 of those being "abandoned" but i guess that will be an issue for then and not now huh?

 

[InCompleteController]

Yea games do go bad if they are no longer supported, heroes of the storm by blizzard virtually died over night when they said they would no longer support the esports aspect of it and literally everyone quit playing it.

Why are you using a multiplayer game as comparison? I don't believe I have seen a porn game that required an online connection for anything, besides DRM.
It should come as no surprise that a singleplayer game is able to survive for much longer than a multiplayer game.

Games in development also take a huge hit if they get delayed or abandoned just look at Scalebound which was supposed to be a launch title for the xbox one, that game will never see the light of day now.

Again, another flawed comparison. Before a game can get the abandoned tag it needs to actually have a release. Not a full release, but at least a playable demo.

Abandoned games do nothing good for this site except make people have to sift threw more and more games to find something they could fully enjoy.

Just because a game is abandoned doesn't mean that there isn't some good content in them.
Also, like I said before, what prevents the devs from simply claiming their game is completed, rather than abandoned? Punishing honest devs will simply lead to a worse user experience if you can no longer tell which games was abandoned and which games were "completed".

F95zone is increasing in popularity every year so what's going to happen 10 years from now when we have over 1000 pages of games and more 600 of those being "abandoned" but i guess that will be an issue for then and not now huh?

Well, luckily, abandoned games tend not to get updated, so they will automatically show up less often. But if it's really an issue, then why not use the search filters? That's why they are there.



Here's a question for you. Those games in your signature, should they be deleted from the site if the creators were unable to finish them, say if they were so unlucky as to die from COVID?
What makes them worth playing, considering they could be abandoned at any moment?

 

[Malicre]

Here's a question for you. Those games in your signature, should they be deleted from the site if the creators were unable to finish them, say if they were so unlucky as to die from COVID?
What makes them worth playing, considering they could be abandoned at any moment?

Nice try but if the dev's of those games abandoned them then yes i would say that they would need to be removed from the site.

My opinion doesn't change just because i like or dislike a game.

 

[Helmeted Smith]

F95zone is increasing in popularity every year so what's going to happen 10 years from now when we have over 1000 pages of games and more 600 of those being "abandoned" but i guess that will be an issue for then and not now huh?

I think this is more of an UI/UX issue regarding the site and how it will adapt to the influx of games, deleting a game like Milfy City because it was (hypothetically) abandoned, wouldn't make a lot of sense. Archiving it into a different category, I'll argue it's a better solution.