- Thread starter Crazygamer43
- Start date
Dude we are going to keep playing the game regardless, we are just bitching about it. The dev is going to keep doing what he likes and we will keep bitching about it every single update because it is part of the fun.
I do find it amusing how some readers like to defend Frank's whining (I do not know if you do, seeing as you have not stated your opinion about it). For my part I am constantly wondering why, some keep getting rewarded by his monologues when we are past character building and it just turned into a crutch.
There is a concept called "optimal stopping", it's purpose is to maximize reward while minimizing cost when you are constrained by time. This concept has been used to demonstrate that the longer you keep feeding the information gathering portions of the brain, the activity in the reward portions of the brain starts to diminish, affecting decision making (you loose interest). Statistically speaking, when constrained by time (any VN in this site has a finite length) you have the best chances of captivating your audience when you have ended the setup portion and keep rewarding the reader at about 37% of the story length. Now if you A.K.A87 fall in the category of readers that keep enjoying Frank's tirades past that 37% threshold it is cool but I am curious as to why besides the common short answer "it makes him more real".
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I think we can assume the game will not last more than 3 years in development (it would mean we are not past the 37%). Still the idea stands that we are past a reasonable time for frank to start acting decisive.
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- May 6, 2020
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Since the internal clock starts March 30th, I suspect is it will go until Spring Break, at which point Frank and Abby will go check out the newly inherited vacation home (just the two because Becca and Lilly both work). While there, they either become lovers and come back and deal with the fallout with Frank and Lilly or Abby's advances will escalate to the point Frank puts the brakes on, letting his promise to Lilly slip in the heat of the argument, and come back and deal with the fallout with Abby and Lilly. Either way, once Lilly finally gets put in her place, the step-daughter harem will be fully assembled by the end of April.
Now you are just pulling my chain man.
By the current date in game Spring Break is over in most places and if the game takes until the end of April without any time jumps it will take 5 years of development. I am only aware of one game in this site that has that development timeframe (Summertime Saga).
This is very shortsighted and does not acknowledge there is something not that good in a otherwise very good game.
Example:
Frank has sex with his non blood related foster daughter and goes in internal monologue that says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it, and says he regret it.
What I (and others) want to see:
Frank has sex with his non blood related foster daughter and goes in internal monologue that says he regret it, but at the same time admits it happened and now he has to work out how to deal with it.
(I have exaggerated the above a bit, but You probably see what I want to say with it)
What do you think is more interesting in a visual novel? Sure - It cuts down on what really is going on, but that second sentence brings over the message just as strong, if not stronger, that that first endless loop. Personally I think that second version is giving a stronger impact and paints the situation better than that endless monologue.
I think nobody here wants to see Frank change from one day to another. That's totally beside the point. We only want to see some improvements in the writing by doing some dial-back on that internal hand-wringing.
I think having some critique on an less enjoyable part in an otherwise very enjoyable game, is not being whining and complaining (I'm not Frank), but meant to be taken a constructive way. Taking out that endless circle-monologue, and shorten it down to a impactful message will improve the game in my honest opinion. It does not change anything in the MC's behavior (he is still struggling with the same stuff), but it takes out a repetitive factor that gets old very soon and thus gets irritating.
As I said before - We all want to see an very good game to go even better. If toning down some aspects that's holding it back archive that goal, than I think it does not hurt to point that out. There is nothing wrong with that.
Frank has two step daughters and an adopted daughter, no foster daughters. Also that is exactly what you get in this update, which is the day after he sleeps with Lilly for the first time. The dream sequences are his internal monologue with the battle between what he truly wants (the fairies) and what he thinks he should do as a father. Everything said in the dream sequences is 100% Frank talking. The fairies confirm that they only know what he knows for example. Since the fairies are telling him to go with it and sleep with them, that is Frank convincing himself it is ok to treat the girls as both daughter and lover and he wants it to happen. When he goes to the hotel with Becca he starts off a little reluctant but admits it felt good and that he wants it to happen again. He is then more assertive when he has sex with her for the first time. He is giving in to what he wants, and what the girls want him to be.
I find people focus a lot on the whole "He isn't related to them" aspect (which is true) while completely ignoring that even though he isn't related to them, he was 100% in dad mode with all three of them. Until recently, he never thought of them as anything other than daughters. He is a good father. It would be unbelievable for him to transition as fast as people want him to. What they want would make him similar to Trevor, Becca and Lilly's father, and Trevor is an asshole.
- Feb 3, 2021
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No it should not,,, not up to anybody but the dev. That is how he/she writes,
If every dev changed the game into something the complainers want, we end up with all crap games.
No story lines, no background, just hi i'm so and so and now we are gonna fuck.
People really need to stop trying to make things into something they are not.
Not to mention,, stop complaining about it. you don't like the game ,, fine.. just move on.
- Feb 3, 2021
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No it really isn't.
It's annoying as fuck for all the other people that do like the game.
Not to mention the small chance you might even influence the dev and the game.
So no, bitching about things for 4 pages every single update is not part of the fun
- Feb 3, 2021
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Shortsighted is actually thinking that your way makes a better game.
All you and a couple of others are doing is going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on bitching about it.
So no ,,, i don't agree with you on how to make this game "beter" , and the off chance you actually might influence the dev will most likley end up in turning the game to shit.
You have been here for some time so you must have seen that happen to a couple of games. The dev cracked, tried to change the storyline in the next update and it all went to shit. The dev either gets stuck and abandons the game, or the players move on and forget about it because the rest has no logic and doesn't feel natural. Writers write in their own style, only a few can write from a very different perspective.
As far as i know this is their first game. So just stop.
- May 6, 2020
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That depends on the school and the year. Most universities in the US, Latin America (north of the equator, anyway), and Europe set it at the same time as Easter, which can vary anywhere from late March to late April. Others have it at a set date. (The one I work at nonsensically sets it in early March, which is technically still winter, the weather reflects this, and it seems almost like they want the students to fuck off to Cancun for a week.)
- Aug 13, 2021
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I do like the game, though. Everything is great other than how MC is handled. Good example of slow burn without beating the player to death with boring monologues is Light of my Life. It can be slow burn, with a caring father, and still be enjoyable. And no, I won't stop voicing my opinion in a public forum.
It might not be fun for you for any number of reasons, but everybody is free to voice their opinion as long as they do not attack you. We will not influence the developer because we have been bitching since the beginning and nothing has changed. I explained why we are bitching about it and left you an opening for you to steer the conversation towards your point and you did not take it.
Anyway, happy typing.
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Stupid lunar cycles!!!
Taking Easter as our maximum I will concede that it can happen as late as April 25. I will hunker dawn for the remaining 3.5 years.
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- Sep 26, 2020
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It has become clear that many (possibly all) people defending the portrayal of the MC's mental state simply don't understand the criticism that is being presented. As a result, the counterarguments they offer do not address this criticism.
So on this subject I am out.
Overall I really enjoy this VN. The bits I don't like are not enough to seriously detract from that enjoyment.
So on this subject I am out.
Overall I really enjoy this VN. The bits I don't like are not enough to seriously detract from that enjoyment.
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- Feb 3, 2021
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I made my point long ago.
No not different ways,, just the 1 i stated. you guys need a new song.
In your own words: been bitching since the beginning and nothing has changed.
So why keep doing it and annoy other people ?
Just because you can by staying within the rules, or because you like it ?
Does that make it right because the rules say you can ?
It is still your personal opinion on how to make the game more to your liking that you are forcing on other people page after page after page.
Voice a opinion yes ,,, report a error ,, or have a discussion about different sides and angles of the direction of how the story is developing or heading.
Most people welcome that. That would be happy tying.
Why trying to shut down everyone that has another opinion than you?
That is very annoying, and no bitching by you about it will shut people down.
So why keep doing it and annoy other people ?
That goes for both sides you know.
You spam message after message how we have to keep our mouths shut, completely oblivious how you actually do the same thing as the people that irritate you. Way to go...
And no - You won't silence me. I have an opinion and I keep giving that opinion here.
Maybe the author won't react and maybe the author will. You never know for certain. At least by having critique people can make their marks and have some hope there will be some change later on (and maybe we even prevented that repetitive stuff going on for much longer - Who knows?).
Sorry - I will keep saying my thing (in a respectful way of course), just like you do. In any case - We have different view points, but at lest let us agree that we disagree without trying to shut each other down.
Dude I said this: "Now if you A.K.A87 fall in the category of readers that keep enjoying Frank's tirades past that 37% threshold it is cool but I am curious as to why besides the common short answer "it makes him more real".". Because the opinion that you posted as far as I can tell is just this:
You could elaborate a little more. If you take the time to search my posts in this thread I have stated that I do not like the whining based on personal experience. While it was brief it was more detailed than your one liner. If you had taken the time to arrange you thoughts and tell us why you like Frank's monologues we could have had that discussion you pretend to lecture us about.
- Feb 3, 2021
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Not pretending to lecture you,,, you i will discuss with. You actually are explaining yourself, and are giving your thoughts on the matter and are not just saying,, i will speak/repeat my mind/comment..
And yes that was a short statement i made,, but not about Frank. just thought i'd point it out and maybe make a few people go.... oops yeah.
The thought process of Frank (MC) is that he acts and thinks like a father and husband, granted she is no longer there ,, but the dreams explain the connection he still feels as if she was. Building from that into where this is going and went will leave a lot of guild and regret. So the monologue for frank is spot on.
Have you ever done something you still regret to this day. i know i do. Even right after. It's not keeping me up at night but i do think about things. The dev is trying to make this as real as he/she can get character wise.
So the death of the first wife, shitty marriage after that (cheated on) being a (step) father for 3 kids that to him feels like being their actual father.. hell yeah he will have a though time. Not to mention he is not the one in control here: Tricked, guided and played into this direction.
Loose the girls or go along with it kinda thing.
That is my thought process.
Your thoughts ?
- Feb 3, 2021
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Of course i keep posting,,, You keep trying to drive you message home,,
But when i do it you blame me and call it spamm ,,,can you now maybe see my point.
But no ,, i did it to make you see my point ,,, and you did... Good luck to you,, and your opinion
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Oh boy!!! Talking about regretting something is a good point and I think a good start. I think of situations like the one this VN sets up more from an ethical standpoint than a moral standpoint. What I mean is that I tend to worry less (sometimes outright ignore) what is good (moral) and I focus on what is right for the situation (ethical). As long as I do not damage another person it is fair game and I tend to take those decisions fast.
It sounds kind of evil, sociopathic even but maybe you have heard or read something along the lines of "he has his own ethical code". To some degree or other we all have our own ethical code because we can make judgement calls and we determine what kind of person we want to be. Now I do recognize that I am not even average, I lean towards the abnormal because of my life experience but I am not that far off the speed at which some take important decisions. I will mention 4 points that I consider important for the person I am.
- I was shunned by my mother from the age of 4 so I never really developed functional emotional behavior.
- At age 17 I sustained brain damage and lost most of my memories so it compounded the previous point.
- At age 28 I was diagnosed with transient global amnesia, hallucinations and chronic pain due to the previous point.
- At age 32 I was diagnosed with mild cognitive impairment, a possible precursor to dementia, maybe due to point 2.
I do agree with your statement about things not letting you sleep at night and it would be really good story telling if Frank could have longer talks with Becca about it instead of the monologs to compliment the dreams. I remember that not talking to an actual person about my own troubles lead me to abuse alcohol a few years back.
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What is more important for you, moral or ethical reasons?
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