Others slang language - is it real?

[coffeeaddicted]

So here is my premise (to many posts today).

I would love to give characters a more real appearance. Especially in the way they talk.
So i watch a lot of British shows and movies and they talk in part in a slang which can be hard to understand. Worst example was in the movie "Snitch". Really almost not understandable to a non-speaker.

Why doing it? Well, i want to have them talk like they are from the real world. Street slang perhaps to have them talk like they were not upper class or don't talk a high English. (is that a word)

Here is what i found and it kind of sound or reads like i imagine but i would love to hear what people who talk like it or know how people in real life talk think off it.

So here i found two translator that seem to fit what i was looking for.
Though they need editing because sometimes it sound rather unreal.

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and

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Are there better translator or can (i did not try that) ChatGPT do that?

 

[Saki_Sliz]

Accents can really add to a characters personality, so I've thought about them a bit as well.

The bimbo speaker is pretty good, though I'm not a fan of the intentional misspelling.

one you may be interested to look into is

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It's not trying to sound dumb but it does do some similar things.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Well, i realize that only a native speaker can write it the way it is actually spoken.
But i don't know anyone like that.
My aim is the British slang. Use of the word "innit" which was so front center in the show "Mobin" (Netflix).
This slang (dunno which one that is) is great as it isn't particular low or anything but reflects how people in real life talk.

When i play a game from here, to 100% it's the cleaned version of English or "official" English. Plus is, anyone can understand it.
So my thought was, to have two English versions. An "official" version and one with "slang" to give the characters a believable charm.
It's the same reason i am watching British shows. It's compelling and once you watched a couple, you do understand it. Wales is probably not really to understand.

I always felt that it makes a story better. So no Hollywood English even if they swear on the screen.

Btw. thanks for the link. This seems more an American version though.

The bimbo translator is funny. You probably have to edit it because it's sound kind of dumb otherwise. On the other hand, that's probably the point of it.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

Ah, british is the goal, than how about

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?

 

[coffeeaddicted]

I will test it.

Girl, you neid to wake up. Gee danks. Sehious. Dis ain't de past century no more

This was a translation done by the dialectizer. This is rough but when reading it sounds in my head kind of like what i see on my screen.

 

[GNVE]

It is hard to write with a dialect if you're not from the area. There is no one British Slang. Each county or even town has their own. It will be almost impossible to get something that a native speaker would recognize as correct.

There is another problem though. When writing in a dialect you might alienate part of your audience. A lot of people learn Kings English in school or learn US English from movies and songs. They don't learn British Slang. So it will be harder for them to follow the story. Some may find it to hard and just give up.

In some cases it might even feel a little racist to use certain accents for certain characters. Though that depends on how it is done as well. But I have stopped playing certain games for just stereotyping their characters too much.

So for those reasons I decided to write my dialogue in the regular English I know best(which is probably a mix of US English, Kings English and a bit of slang). Also in a project I'm working on I have a lot of non-native characters. Shit would get complicated quite quickly if I had to use slang from Germany, France, Indonesia etc.

To make my dialogue more believable I insert vocalizations like 'ah' 'uh' etc in the dialogue; sometimes write a word twice 'I... I am sorry.'; don't finish sentences 'I thought I...' and use '...' liberally to indicate hesitation or a pause between words.

P.s. Welsh is a different language. It is not English as such.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

That is a good point. You got to release a game with Kings College (this term is new to me).
But as an alternative, slang. Though i think i have to find someone that actually speaks it. To be more specific i am thinking about London. I think there are a lot of dialects and slang terms though i believe they have mostly something in common. At least it's in my country like that. Not so much the dialect that is inherently local. This is murder to write on paper.

 

[anne O'nymous]

There is another problem though. When writing in a dialect you might alienate part of your audience.

This is the most important point, and it also stand when you speak with an accent.
Most players will be none native speakers, and on top of that not effectively speakers ; the can write/read English, but will speak a barely recognizable broken English.
This mean that not only they'll not understand slang, but they'll also don't recognize the words behind their "wrote with accent" version. At worse a native speaker would say it out loud, and recognize the similarity in sound, but a none native speaker would pronounce it wrongly, and never find the similarity with the effective word that he also pronounce wrong, but another kind of wrongness.

So for those reasons I decided to write my dialogue in the regular English I know best(which is probably a mix of US English, Kings English and a bit of slang).

It's probably the best way. After all slang and accent aren't the only way to give a personality to a character.

You can give him/her a language tic, using often the same kind of sentence structure or the same word. You can make it speak perfect Oxford English, or be more lax in the way (s)he speak. One can swear a lot, another be always Canadian polite. Once can use sophisticated words (but not too sophisticated, it need to stay words that the reader can know), while another prefer to describe the meaning ; "She's infuriating" versus "I can't stand her".
The way someone speak should also reflect his/her status. When Hopes Gaming started The DeLuca Family, I advised him to take more care of the way Lady Cordia and Wilfred were speaking. He relied too much on elision and simplified forms, what wasn't at all matching their high status and the respect due to them. Where someone would present himself with "I'm [whatever]", for Wilfred it couldn't be something else than the full "My name is Wilfred", or at least "I am Wilfred". It's a small detail, but by itself it's what show that he isn't like all the others members on the family ; he stand above them, even in the way he speak.
It's also possible to play on the difference between English and American. All the characters can speak English, and one will like "fall colors" (by opposition with the English "autumn colours").

The important point is that Yester64 said that he want his character to speaks like people speak in real life. But he seem to over estimate the importance of slang in everyday language. At least for average Joe. Most people speak normally without relying too much on slang. There's few words for which they'll use the slang version, but they'll rarely use more than one slang word every five/six sentences at most.
And anyway, whatever the language, the way we speak is already a Simplified LANGuage. One would write, "this is a cat", but say, "it's a cat". And it's also a way to make the characters speak differently without needing to use a written accent or slang, because what we simplify or not differ from a person to another.

P.s. Welsh is a different language. It is not English as such.

Recent studies tend to demonstrate that Welsh isn't a language at all, but the longest prank of Human history

Please, don't hit me, nor tag ava...

 

[GNVE]

Recent studies tend to demonstrate that Welsh isn't a language at all, but the longest prank of Human history

Please, don't hit me, nor tag ava...

Haha I heard but they insist it is...

 

[mickydoo]

I cringe if someone tries to us Aussie dialect who is not Aussie (I cringe at a lot of Aussies who use Aussie dialect too), it would be the same with other cultures. I see your point, I personally wouldn't do it though.

P.s. Welsh is a different language. It is not English as such.

My dad is Welsh, my mother met him over there and came here, he could speak a few words in Welsh. Google translate tells me that shut the door in welsh is cau'r drws, my childhood memory is him yelling cyo the droose or something, which told us to the shut the door. If you were talking to much he would say cyo the cake hole. I asked him once why, he said he didn't know the welsh word for mouth.

 

[anne O'nymous]

My dad is Welsh, my mother met him over there and came here, he could speak a few words in Welsh. Google translate tells me that shut the door in welsh is cau'r drws, my childhood memory is him yelling cyo the droose or something, which told us to the shut the door. If you were talking to much he would say cyo the cake hole. I asked him once why, he said he didn't know the welsh word for mouth.

There's something important here, the reason why one would use slang or another language.
Here it was (relative of course) anger that made your dad switch to Welsh, near to instinctively. If it was conscious, he wouldn't have used Welsh when he wanted you to stay quiet, precisely because there's a word he don't know.
You were surely too young to remember it, but the first time should have been epic, with him pausing mid sentence, searching for a word he don't know, then finding an alternative.

This remind me a friend of mine, who once said that his own dad have three level of anger. Normal anger, he speak in French. When he start to use his own dad dialect, you better obey as fast as possible, and run for your life if he switch to his mother dialect.
Like for your father, it's something he don't really control and that come instinctively. What is also a way to represent a character personality in the dialogs. Not necessarily by using slang or an accent, but by making this character starts to speak differently when there's a strong change of mood.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Well, there was this funny video of Liam Dutton (weatherman) pronouncing a town somewhere in Welsh.

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I think i can settle for some nuances that connects you to where that person is from. I just thought it would be great but of course, it can't be the sole language option. That would limit the appeal.

Though i am fascinated by the slang and dialects as they are so unique in a way and funny parts how groups of people talk.
I would have loved to move to England when i was younger. Instead i went to the US.

anne O'nymous raised a good point in that, it should reflect the roots of the character and it's status. Does the person hold power, is a low life or average. There are many things to be considered.

This is in itself an interesting journey. I like British English. Scottish i need to pass, as i don't understand them or rarely. It's just so full of strange words. I think you have to be born there to understand it really.

 

[mickydoo]

There's something important here, the reason why one would use slang or another language.
Here it was (relative of course) anger that made your dad switch to Welsh, near to instinctively

So true, I would of taken it for granted, like I just did with my post.

This remind me a friend of mine, who once said that his own dad have three level of anger. Normal anger, he speak in French. When he start to use his own dad dialect, you better obey as fast as possible, and run for your life if he switch to his mother dialect.

My little country town was full of Italian immigrants, half of my childhood friends are Italian. Italian kids in my day spoke perfect English, their mothers couldn't speak it and their dads preferred Italian at home over English. If you were around their place the parents seldom spoke in front of you so it was funny as fuck one day when Tony Fazzalorri and his dad got into an argument, Tony yelling in English, his dad yelling in Italian, but both completely understanding the each other. It was along time ago but I can still remeber it like it was yesterday lol.

 

[PaperDevil]

When it comes to making someone sound dumb, there are more ways to do that than using an accent. Miss-spelling words is probably not a good idea since most will assume the author made a mistake.

One way to make someone sound dumb is to replace a word with another word that sounds just like it. The Sopranos does this well with their characters. The characters try to use words or metaphors but make some kind of mistake that makes them look like goofs.

Here's a video with examples:

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In the first clip, he should have said "the sacred, and the profane". Instead, he says "and the propane". Profane is the opposite of sacred while propane is a kind of gas.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

When it comes to making someone sound dumb, there are more ways to do that than using an accent. Miss-spelling words is probably not a good idea since most will assume the author made a mistake.

One way to make someone sound dumb is to replace a word with another word that sounds just like it. The Sopranos does this well with their characters. The characters try to use words or metaphors but make some kind of mistake that makes them look like goofs.

Here's a video with examples:

You must be registered to see the links

In the first clip, he should have said "the sacred, and the profane". Instead, he says "and the propane". Profane is the opposite of sacred while propane is a kind of gas.

Lol... i am just thinking about it.
My latest example would be "Stience" which was from Disenchantment.

Though i still like a dialect but i see why it's probably a bad idea. Though in movies it works. Not in the way that no one can understand it though.
I only have one scene in mind which was in Austin Powers where he talks to his dad in welsh. I think. No one could understand it.

 

[GNVE]

Lol... i am just thinking about it.
My latest example would be "Stience" which was from Disenchantment.

Though i still like a dialect but i see why it's probably a bad idea. Though in movies it works. Not in the way that no one can understand it though.
I only have one scene in mind which was in Austin Powers where he talks to his dad in welsh. I think. No one could understand it.

In movies it works because non-native speakers either have dubbing that uses dialects they are familiar with or they have subtitles in their native language that does the heavy lifting for them. Even for me, a near native speaker (if I do say so myself) subtitles are sometimes a life-saver to decode difficult accents especially when I'm tired.
Though in your example I'm guessing you aren't supposed to understand it. It happens quite often when characters speak a foreign language in a movie. I mean I have seen my native tongue been butchered by in US movies more than once to the point of illegibility.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

When i think off examples, i come empty handed.
Why?
Because i realize that even certain accents are more or less regular english but with the nuance off how they speak it. I think it can't be translated into a dialog.
Even if would love too, it isn't possible.

So i think what i will do is to pronounce certain words in a way anyone sees what it is but it still would convey some nuances to the standard English sentence.
Omg, this sounds like science. lol

Personally i watch a lot of foreign movies/tv shows.
When i do that, i chose to watch it in the language it was made off. Of course with subtitle. But it gives me a better sense of how something is said and why.
But not everyone does.

That is why i thought, why not have language choice in a game so the player can chose but since i would rely on a web translator this isn't going to work anyway. It would be nice though.

 

[anne O'nymous]

In movies it works because non-native speakers either have dubbing that uses dialects they are familiar with or they have subtitles in their native language that does the heavy lifting for them.

Exactly this.
The movie use dialects and slang, but they aren't translated by the viewer, nor in real time, like it would happen for a game. It's a professional translator who's in charge of this. What mean that it's someone who have access to resources that a viewer wouldn't use, can afford to pass an hour searching for a word meaning, and can also go forward on the movie to be sure that it's effectively what was meant by whatever word he wasn't familiar with.
I'm not familiar with this job, but I wouldn't be surprised if the translator firstly watch the whole movie, or read the whole text, before even starting the translation. Knowing the story beforehand help a lot when you encounter words you aren't familiar with. Once again something that a viewer/player can't afford to do.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[Sorry for the double post]

Because i realize that even certain accents are more or less regular english but with the nuance off how they speak it. I think it can't be translated into a dialog.

To some exception yes, an accent is mostly a difference on where the emphasis is put in a word and few things like that. You hear it, and in fact can represent it in writing, but it would be something too subtle to effectively carry the meaning you want.

For French by example, Parisians have the tendency to not pronounce all the "e" (the sound, not the letter). In writing it would lead to things like "enlèv'ment" in place of "enlèvement" (kidnapping). At the opposite, there's an accent that accentuate the said "e", and that would need you to write "enlèvement". In a long run, all those small variations would looks relatively weird.
Someone knowing the language, but not the many accents, would probably wonder what you drank before writing:
Guy 1 "Hey, you know what, I just witnessed an enlèv'ment !"
Guy 2 "Oh my god, an enlèvement ?"
Guy 1 "Yes, I swear."
Guy 3 "And what kind of enlèvement ?"

I'm nearly sure that it would also quickly become either really annoying, or end passing totally unnoticed after some times.

That is why i thought, why not have language choice in a game so the player can chose but since i would rely on a web translator this isn't going to work anyway. It would be nice though.

Summertime Saga have some parts like this, with a character only speaking Spanish (at least my memory tell me that it's Spanish). Then it rely on the fact that Ren'Py can have arguments even for the dialog lines to add the English translation (on will I kind of remember, but I'm not totally sure). There's also some Sci-Fi games that have some alien languages, and add the translation below.

But honestly I'm not really sure if it really add something to the game.
It works in movies because there's a simultaneity ; you're hearing the foreign/alien language while reading the subtitles. But in a game, unless it's fully voiced you can't have this. Therefore, the player will quickly learn to not care about the none understandable sentence and jump directly to the translation.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

[Sorry for the double post]



To some exception yes, an accent is mostly a difference on where the emphasis is put in a word and few things like that. You hear it, and in fact can represent it in writing, but it would be something too subtle to effectively carry the meaning you want.

For French by example, Parisians have the tendency to not pronounce all the "e" (the sound, not the letter). In writing it would lead to things like "enlèv'ment" in place of "enlèvement" (kidnapping). At the opposite, there's an accent that accentuate the said "e", and that would need you to write "enlèvement". In a long run, all those small variations would looks relatively weird.
Someone knowing the language, but not the many accents, would probably wonder what you drank before writing:
Guy 1 "Hey, you know what, I just witnessed an enlèv'ment !"
Guy 2 "Oh my god, an enlèvement ?"
Guy 1 "Yes, I swear."
Guy 3 "And what kind of enlèvement ?"

I'm nearly sure that it would also quickly become either really annoying, or end passing totally unnoticed after some times.




Summertime Saga have some parts like this, with a character only speaking Spanish (at least my memory tell me that it's Spanish). Then it rely on the fact that Ren'Py can have arguments even for the dialog lines to add the English translation (on will I kind of remember, but I'm not totally sure). There's also some Sci-Fi games that have some alien languages, and add the translation below.

But honestly I'm not really sure if it really add something to the game.
It works in movies because there's a simultaneity ; you're hearing the foreign/alien language while reading the subtitles. But in a game, unless it's fully voiced you can't have this. Therefore, the player will quickly learn to not care about the none understandable sentence and jump directly to the translation.

My dreams are crushed.

Well, just joking.

On a serious note. I think to insert a word that is a little slang or a word that is wrongly pronounced should be ok. Also to highlight the character in a way.

But yes, it is kind of sad that it wouldn't really fly. In my head, certain actors come to my mind automatically if i envision a character for a game.
This is how that guy would talk or she.
It proves also that dialog writing is not as easy as just typing a sentence. There is more that goes into it. Though my goal was to add some uniqueness i can see why it won't work.

There is one thing i thought. Since ChatGPT is the thing now i wonder if it would write dialogs. Not sure if it was fed with lewd stories though.