So, why the hate on NTR?

[Wankstaindeluxe]

Just to point out that I don't think it was supposed to be an exhaustive list - there are other kinks that can fall into the category of 'adding completely changes the game', such as scat.

Just because it does or doesn't change the game for you doesn't mean it won't change it for someone else. Also some games will implement NTR filters fairly well to the point that you can entirely have a game that has NTR content in it but filtered so well if it's turned off that people like it just for the non-NTR content as well.

True, (Though, I could see Scat somehow being wholesome), But I meant more in the sense that those fetishes would change the game fundamentally.

It's like if i got ice cream and the person put sprinkles on it. If I like it, I like it. If I don't, I could just scrape it off and still keep the ice cream. Those fetishes would be the sprinkles.

Then you have NTR and the others. Those would be like putting steak on the ice cream. I can't just scrape that off and not have that taste in there. It fundamentally changes it.

(Basically, the other fetishes, even scat to a degree, can be ignored. But stuff like Cheating and NTR will fundamentally change the game)

 

[Lupiscanis]

True, (Though, I could see Scat somehow being wholesome), But I meant more in the sense that those fetishes would change the game fundamentally.

It's like if i got ice cream and the person put sprinkles on it. If I like it, I like it. If I don't, I could just scrape it off and still keep the ice cream. Those fetishes would be the sprinkles.

Then you have NTR and the others. Those would be like putting steak on the ice cream. I can't just scrape that off and not have that taste in there. It fundamentally changes it.

(Basically, the other fetishes, even scat to a degree, can be ignored. But stuff like Cheating and NTR will fundamentally change the game)

I understand your point of view, but for me, scat in a game is nothing something I can ignore. There are other fetishes that do that for me too and I'm in no way trying to kink shame, I'm just pointing out that obviously if you don't like NTR/cheating, you're not going to want it in the game - and that applies to other fetishes for other people too.

My issue with the hate is largely the vitriol of it - I've got no problem with people dislike a fetish but I do have a problem with people objecting so loudly to it in threads that are tagged with NTR (and that's largely a problem with the site tagging since we cannot at the moment separate out say, netori vs netorare, which have a vastly different audience a lot of the time). People who enjoy NTR are literally treated as subhuman sometimes and it's just not okay for people to be that shitty to other people in my opinion.

Even high levels of macabre or gore content doesn't have people complain as much in my experience (and yet I would say is just as or more offputting for some).

 

[XforU]

Does a genre that gets no hate even exist?

 

[Ennoch]

I'm not even going to read your reply. I stopped there.

You called yourself a chud first. I only agreed. The fact you can't remember or admit this shows your lack of the ability to use what little gray matter exists between your ears to critically consider data and facts as well as be able to interpret and synthesize into coherent, sensible, and logical perspectives.

Had you not used the term, it never would have entered the conversation. You. Not me.

Just a quick glance tells me that your post is filled with fragile incel-boy nonsense attempting to use memes, satire, hyperbole as support of your obviously skewed world view. Take a deep breath and re-evaluate.

Have a lovely day.

I did. Let me summarize it for you.
"All i was doing is posting my opinion in a civil manner for what you jumped on me like some unwashed uneducated uncouth savage but i was too stronk for you and everyone can see it now clear as day how i brought you low, down into the dirt with my superior intellect which you cannot compete with nor fathom.

I had to. Not that i want to, i was just having a nice polite opinion. And you couldn't stand it! Your kind never can! But i'm too brave, too honorable, too straightforward to be bullied by such.. such.. illiterate weeb peasant you!

I have the high ground, i won cuz' i say so, you lost cuz' i say so.. everything you said is wrong because if you say so that's just your opinion not a fact! *insert dramatic sound here*"

 

[Count Morado]

I did. Let me summarize it for you.
"All i was doing is posting my opinion in a civil manner for what you jumped on me like some unwashed uneducated uncouth savage but i was too stronk for you and everyone can see it now clear as day how i brought you low, down into the dirt with my superior intellect which you cannot compete with nor fathom.

I had to. Not that i want to, i was just having a nice polite opinion. And you couldn't stand it! Your kind never can! But i'm too brave, too honorable, too straightforward to be bullied by such.. such.. illiterate weeb peasant you!

I have the high groud, i won cuz' i say so, you lost cuz' i say so.. everything you said is wrong because if you say so that's just your opinion not a fact! *insert dramatic sound here*"

You are a better man than I, Ennoch.

If they admitted it was simply their opinion, instead of how they first attempted to present their opinion as factual "answer to the thread itself... it's really just that" then that's a step in the right direction. The first step to recovery is admitting there's a problem.

 

[Lupiscanis]

Does a genre that gets no hate even exist?

Generally I see little anger over vanilla harem-esque games.

NTR gets comments like this :

Maybe don't be a faggot cuck

 

[VegitoHlove]

Seriously though, the thing I dislike isn't NTR, it's the attitude that some, not everyone but some have with a "holier-than-thou" attitude and the supposed narrative that "NTRbros" haven't gone on other non- NTR game threads bitching about the lack of NTR or begging for it...

Are there people whom openly hate on NTR with vitriol? Absolutely. But there people whom do that for other kinks. Yet oft I see it discussed like it's the only kink in the world that gets hated on. Why care about what they say anyway? You're having fun on your NTR game and they're not.

Also asking if a kink like NTR is avoidable/optional isn't hate, grow the fuck up if you think it is. Personally? I prefer skill based NTR games where avoiding it (Or not) is part of a clever mechanic.

 

[wyldmage]

Personally, for me, it's how they present.

Many NTR games dance around the idea in their description, to the point where it's not clear whether the MC is cucking or being cucked. Whether he's onboard with it (netorase), or protesting without breaking up (netorare).

In addition, many of the games are very low-effort "phone games", where it's just a kinetic novel of the player being degraded and mocked.

I personally don't mind NTR games existing. Well done, they can be a lot of fun. But there's a LOT of generic slop coming out, where the author seems to think everyone into netorase or netorare is also into humiliation, degradation, etc, and has absolutely no self-agency of self-worth.

There's simply too many games coming out in the 'genre' - and that's the core of what I dislike. If we were getting 1 *great* NTR game posted here every 2-4 weeks, I'd love it. But I check the new threads every 2-4 days, and it's usually 5+ new NTR games "complete" that are just real porn or AI cg sloppy images linked to a click-through kinetic adventure.

 

[tanstaafl]

There's simply too many games coming out in the 'genre' - and that's the core of what I dislike. If we were getting 1 *great* NTR game posted here every 2-4 weeks, I'd love it. But I check the new threads every 2-4 days, and it's usually 5+ new NTR games "complete" that are just real porn or AI cg sloppy images linked to a click-through kinetic adventure.

People notice things they don't like or things that bother them. NTR is still a significant minority of games that come out. 406 games came out in the last 7 days, 64 of them have been tagged netorare.

 

[RaveDev]

When you dive into a content like a game, show, or book, you usually picture yourself as the main character, the protagonist, right? And because of that, you start to feel pretty attached, like their story or their relationships kinda belong to you. Okay, now picture this: imagine something that feels like totally yours gets snatched away, like your phone. You wouldn't be happy about that, would you? And then, just to be extra annoying, the thief tells you stuff like, "Nah, this phone is way better off with me, it's mine, you didn't deserve it anyway, it basically chose me!" (lol).

But when you look at other kinds of tags or content, they're usually not like that. With those, it's more like you might see the phone get sprayed with water or maybe tied up and beat on with a whip, or even just proudly shown off to friends. But the main point is, no matter what happens, the phone is still yours. But with NTR, it just... isn't. That connection, that sense of it being yours, gets taken away.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

When you dive into a content like a game, show, or book, you usually picture yourself as the main character, the protagonist, right?

I did a poll on this (how the MC is viewed) and the majority is 'maybe' (depends on the story telling), my guess is that NTR is just such a simple story device its far easier for people to instantly imagine.

There are narrative and content kinks, and NTR is about as basic as it gets in terms of a narrative kink (there is nothing really to unpack there, when compared for example to a well done corruption game).

 

[Count Morado]

When you dive into a content like a game, show, or book, you usually picture yourself as the main character, the protagonist, right?

No. And many do not. You are starting your argument with a personal choice and making the assumption that everyone chooses the way you do. There is enjoying content as a form of escapism... But the level at which a person may do so is as different as people in the world. See:

I understand the genre. I understand how it is presented. I understand the process. As an educator of creative writing, I get it. As writers we control the world we create. As readers we control how involved we choose to get. The fact that I can say that shows I can separate myself from the characters I read in a story. I don't see myself as Harry Potter or Hamlet or Juliet or Harriet. I sympathize with the characters, I do not self-insert. As readers/players we make those choices.

Players who self-insert choose to do so. If you choose to self-insert and netorare harms your senses, don't play netorare. If you choose to self-insert and enjoy netorare, have fun.

Also, nice jump from "not self-inserting" into a game to "doing anything without bringing in your own feelings." Two totally different things. People can completely get invested with storylines without self-inserting. Again, readers/players make that choice. If you know how that choice affects you as a player, then the advice is to choose wisely. But don't play the victim card when it is something chosen by you.

If you are choosing not in self-insert as Nintendo's Mario whose LI is being stolen from him over and over and over... then choose not to self-insert as some character that is being cheated upon.

Also see:

You are making a false equivalence.
You cannot simply state that because you choose to self-insert and do not like netorare that the the opposites are true or prevalent for a population.

There are those who do self-insert who enjoy netorare.
There are those who do not self-insert who enjoy netorare.
There are those who do self-insert who do not enjoy netorare.
There are those who do not self-insert who do not enjoy netorare.
There are those who do self-insert who hold no prevailing opinion about netorare.
There are those who do not self-insert who hold no prevailing opinion about netorare.

We are not aware of any empirical data which quantifies any of the above statements.

All you can state is what you know about yourself and what others share - this is anecdotal data. And while anecdotal data is interesting and can be used as examples to describe empirical data, it cannot be used to draw conclusions.

 

[kopiluwak]

I find the idea of "ntr psyop" to be very entertaining, weirder conspiracy has been proven true, but I don't believe it's the case here, simply because NTR is a very niche genre, and within that, "bbc" and all adjacent race-bait are even more niche, It's for a very specific audience that actively seek it, and to me it's not obvious that it's related to something like "disney race-swaping characters", it doesn't have the same reach.

Whether it being right or wrong is nobody's busyness, you jerk off to whatever the hell you want.

 

[Ennoch]

Hey, Count Morado . He told me to shut up

 

[Lupiscanis]

Seriously though, the thing I dislike isn't NTR, it's the attitude that some, not everyone but some have with a "holier-than-thou" attitude and the supposed narrative that "NTRbros" haven't gone on other non- NTR game threads bitching about the lack of NTR or begging for it...

Are there people whom openly hate on NTR with vitriol? Absolutely. But there people whom do that for other kinks. Yet oft I see it discussed like it's the only kink in the world that gets hated on. Why care about what they say anyway? You're having fun on your NTR game and they're not.

Also asking if a kink like NTR is avoidable/optional isn't hate, grow the fuck up if you think it is. Personally? I prefer skill based NTR games where avoiding it (Or not) is part of a clever mechanic.

A large part of this issue would be solved if the tag update would ever happen. Better tagging would mean less discussion of what kind of NTR it was in the first place, leading to less arguments about 'I thought this was going to be Netori, instead it's <random epithets about Netorare enjoyers>'.

And I fully appreciate that no-one is blameless here but it's fairly rare that I see full blown arguments where someone is arguing that a game must put NTR in or it's going to be terrible etc. At the most I usually someone someone asking if it exists in the game (when there's no tag for it, which is dumb) or someone saying something like 'it would make sense if NTR was in this game because of x, y or z'. Usually in both cases (I'm sure there are others, don't get me wrong) they just get shouted down anyway (and that's valid tbh, if it's tagged then there's no need to ask and if it isn't, why are they asking?).

*edit* - typo.

 

[Lupiscanis]

When you dive into a content like a game, show, or book, you usually picture yourself as the main character, the protagonist, right? And because of that, you start to feel pretty attached, like their story or their relationships kinda belong to you. Okay, now picture this: imagine something that feels like totally yours gets snatched away, like your phone. You wouldn't be happy about that, would you? And then, just to be extra annoying, the thief tells you stuff like, "Nah, this phone is way better off with me, it's mine, you didn't deserve it anyway, it basically chose me!" (lol).

But when you look at other kinds of tags or content, they're usually not like that. With those, it's more like you might see the phone get sprayed with water or maybe tied up and beat on with a whip, or even just proudly shown off to friends. But the main point is, no matter what happens, the phone is still yours. But with NTR, it just... isn't. That connection, that sense of it being yours, gets taken away.

How then do men play female protagonist games?

I can very well disassociate from male protagonists having their loved ones taken from them because in my case, the enjoyment nearly always comes from the corruption of the woman/women in the plot, not the loss from the man/men.

 

[T-Juno]

I don't understand the hate either and it's all just a fetish.

 

[Count Morado]

Hey, Count Morado . He told me to shut up
View attachment 4815843

You're part of the media conspiracy that is brainwashing young men into believing that all are created equal and deserve equal treatment under the law and through our moral compasses. Shame.... Shaaaaaaame.

Also asking if a kink like NTR is avoidable/optional isn't hate, grow the fuck up if you think it is

No, it's not hate. But it is stupid to me because, in my observations, it is people who are asking because they want a story where they can make it not exist, period. Not usually to just avoid - but to have it so a story has no reference to it whatsoever. And if there is a reference, they can turn it off in the game's universe so that it never can/will happen. No whiff, no peak, no nothing.

If netorare is that offensive to a person, they should completely avoid the game and game thread altogether. I don't like seafood - at all. None. Zero. Zilch. I don't go into seafood restaurants. I don't even go into the seafood area of my grocery store. At all. And I definitely don't go into a seafood restaurant and ask "Can I get something without seafood in it? I hate seafood."

Also, I don't pick up a book with the BISAC of FIC027190 FICTION / Romance / LGBTQ+ / Gay and ask, "Can I get this book, but without 'the gay?'"
Bitch, then why you here?

Usually in both cases (I'm sure there are others, don't get me wrong) they just get shouted down anyway (and that's valid tbh, if it's tagged then there's no need to ask and if it isn't, why are they asking?).

This.

I don't understand the hate either and it's all just a fetish.

No, no. We've determined it's not a fetish. It's a kink. See dxf2's AI/WebMD definition.

 

[T-Juno]

If it's a Kink, then it's not a problem if you keep it to yourself?

 

[seifukulover]

How then do men play female protagonist games?

Roleplaying. The game introduces you to a female character, and you try to pretend that you're that character.