Some questions for femdom lovers.

[ChaosOpen]

Innovation requires a creator that tries something different, a concept, if you let the players tell you what to do they will just want the creator to do a copy of similar games and nothing else.

It's true that just because it's something new and different it doesn't mean that it is good or enjoyable, but it is much better than doing just another copy paste without a soul.

Honestly, it's not the writing that visual novels seem to struggle with, it's the characters. People just can't seem to write interesting characters, and without a good MC I really could care less what story you're trying to tell.

However something more interesting is, the player's opinnion vary a lot, for example let's say NTR, you will get the following opinnions:

-Yay, I want it unavoidable
-Okay, but I hope it isn't unavoidable
-Hope it is optional and I don't have to deal with it
-Where can I turn it off?
-Shit, why waste time adding something like that?! NTR fucks all games in which it appears.

What group would you support as a creator?, overall this is a choice that you have as a developer. It doesn't matter which choice you take in the end you can't satisfy everyone.

Well, if it comes down to whether or not the NTR should be avoidable, you're not really doing anything different. I've yet to see NTR used as something aside from punishing the player or a soul-crushing eventuality. Why don't creators ever use reverse NTR(where the woman is the masochist looking to be cucked), could also be paired with BDSM for added spice? Or a netori where you cuck the fat bastard rather than playing as the ugly rapist?

If your only choice is over whether to allow the players to see the same dude get cucked by the same guy then you're not really doing anything new, it's just "you guys want a standard vanilla game or standard NTR?"Use NTR in a way that doesn't make the player feel like shit or that he has done something wrong, but instead spices up a romance with an interesting fantasy a straight male can get behind.

For example, a harem with femdom and femsub in a reverse NTR, with the femdom using your dick as leverage to cuck another woman while you sit back and enjoy the ride. Something so simple has never actually been used despite it being a rather hot fantasy for S&M fans.

Then we get those people that say "all fetishes should be optional in a game", that is the worst opinnion ever, first of all there are circunstances at which scenes shouldn't be optional, for example being defeated by an enemy and having the character raped is one, plots that are developing and that you don't solve soon enough is another one, overall conflicts require action and the lack of it is a reason for something to happen.

That is more to do with the environment of VN games as of present. Going back to your NTR example, there are A LOT of NTR games coming out as of recent and nobody can quite figure out why. Not sure how it is in Japan but in the west NTR isn't all that popular, probably the most decisive fetish since bestiality. So, why companies keep translating entire NTR series with the main game, all of its sequels, side stories, and fan disks while both vanilla and other fetishes are pretty much ignored is unknown to the VN buying public. So, when a new developer comes forward and says "okay, I want to create a "new" game with NTR elements" people can't really figure out why. Especially the "NTR elements" thing, the whole premise of standard NTR is that it's an eventuality you can't really escape, you aren't being punished for something you did, bad things happen to good people in the most soul crushing method. So, avoidable NTR tends to involve a hassle with no rewards(such as grinding for levels in an RPG as opposed to watching lewds).

I honestly think it's simply because an NTR story is easy to write, confirmed nice guy protagonist gets his wife stolen by an asshole with a bigger dick, it pretty much plays to the standard MC's personality: a dull piece of styrofoam tugged along by the whims of others. In NTR he is basically a fly on the wall, so you don't have to characterize him to make the story work. Only time I've seen an interesting twist on NTR is

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which is a yaoi and basically the plot is the netori who is tired of women getting pregnant and decides to try to steal both the love interest(bottom/trap) and the MC(top) to be his sex slaves. His love interest appears to fall first, and the MC's choice is to either get revenge and take his trap back or give up and become a bottom in a big gay orgy... It's a really weird plot... Either way, it's something different, the MC's choice isn't about being cast aside, it's about temptation, do you surrender and join or abandon your lover to save yourself? And during the plot another possibility is brought up: the trap seems to be scheming something and does not want you to have sex with the netori guy, but why?

A creator needs to take many choices, a lot, they can try to make a game really appealing to certain groups by focusing on certain fetishes (femdom, NTR, harem, maledom, sissification...), try to be more dynamic and get fetishes involved on the game (stats, circumstances and missions having an effect on the scenes you get) or just try to make everything optional.

So no, a game should be a form os self expression, a concept that a developer tries to offer to the players, however the players seeing that concept they are free to say "it's good" or "it's bad".

Lets be honest, when you advertise a fetish, you don't do it because it is necessary for a compelling narrative, nor are you going to attract people looking for that. You're making porn, and on your first couple games the writing is going to be about on par whether you're going for that or not because writing is an acquired skill, and if you try and do something you're not quite skilled enough to pull off, it is disastrous, see

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for an example of that.

 

[DawnCry]

Honestly, it's not the writing that visual novels seem to struggle with, it's the characters. People just can't seem to write interesting characters, and without a good MC I really could care less what story you're trying to tell.



Well, if it comes down to whether or not the NTR should be avoidable, you're not really doing anything different. I've yet to see NTR used as something aside from punishing the player or a soul-crushing eventuality. Why don't creators ever use reverse NTR(where the woman is the masochist looking to be cucked), could also be paired with BDSM for added spice? Or a netori where you cuck the fat bastard rather than playing as the ugly rapist?

If your only choice is over whether to allow the players to see the same dude get cucked by the same guy then you're not really doing anything new, it's just "you guys want a standard vanilla game or standard NTR?"Use NTR in a way that doesn't make the player feel like shit or that he has done something wrong, but instead spices up a romance with an interesting fantasy a straight male can get behind.

For example, a harem with femdom and femsub in a reverse NTR, with the femdom using your dick as leverage to cuck another woman while you sit back and enjoy the ride. Something so simple has never actually been used despite it being a rather hot fantasy for S&M fans.

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That is more to do with the environment of VN games as of present. Going back to your NTR example, there are A LOT of NTR games coming out as of recent and nobody can quite figure out why. Not sure how it is in Japan but in the west NTR isn't all that popular, probably the most decisive fetish since bestiality. So, why companies keep translating entire NTR series with the main game, all of its sequels, side stories, and fan disks while both vanilla and other fetishes are pretty much ignored is unknown to the VN buying public. So, when a new developer comes forward and says "okay, I want to create a "new" game with NTR elements" people can't really figure out why. Especially the "NTR elements" thing, the whole premise of standard NTR is that it's an eventuality you can't really escape, you aren't being punished for something you did, bad things happen to good people in the most soul crushing method. So, avoidable NTR tends to involve a hassle with no rewards(such as grinding for levels in an RPG as opposed to watching lewds).

I honestly think it's simply because an NTR story is easy to write, confirmed nice guy protagonist gets his wife stolen by an asshole with a bigger dick, it pretty much plays to the standard MC's personality: a dull piece of styrofoam tugged along by the whims of others. In NTR he is basically a fly on the wall, so you don't have to characterize him to make the story work. Only time I've seen an interesting twist on NTR is

You must be registered to see the links

which is a yaoi and basically the plot is the netori who is tired of women getting pregnant and decides to try to steal both the love interest(bottom/trap) and the MC(top) to be his sex slaves. His love interest appears to fall first, and the MC's choice is to either get revenge and take his trap back or give up and become a bottom in a big gay orgy... It's a really weird plot... Either way, it's something different, the MC's choice isn't about being cast aside, it's about temptation, do you surrender and join or abandon your lover to save yourself? And during the plot another possibility is brought up: the trap seems to be scheming something and does not want you to have sex with the netori guy, but why?


Lets be honest, when you advertise a fetish, you don't do it because it is necessary for a compelling narrative, nor are you going to attract people looking for that. You're making porn, and on your first couple games the writing is going to be about on par whether you're going for that or not because writing is an acquired skill, and if you try and do something you're not quite skilled enough to pull off, it is disastrous, see

You must be registered to see the links

for an example of that.

Mate while it's interesting to read your post it kind of ignores the whole point that I made, and that is to defend innovation and the creator's choice to create something more unique.

I didn't enter anything else but just wanted to be critic with the "player's opinnion" as a defining factor towards making a game. That's all.

In fact I do have to wonder how you went so off on some points to the point of having me read what you said and think, why did he quote me here?.

However just a few additions in the case you don't know:

*A concept isn't only the general setting but the characters, in fact the writing isn't part of a game concept, it is a development and game integration aspect.

*About the NTR talk it was for example if it should be unavoidable, avoidable, optional or don't be part of a game, each of them is different and the development is different. The difference between avoidable and optional is that the first requires stats and game mechanics while the second is option based. In fact everything you said is related to uses and combinations, I have to say that didn't expect that you could miss my point here. You just give situations that are exactly related to what I said.

*People don't produce or translate things with no demand, if the money is enough people do it, however what is true is that most people tend to not take risks.

*Your last part of the post isn't being honest, it's why you are here but not why everyone is here, I don't understand why people love to think that everyone that plays H games, takes them as porn, I enjoy much more a game like kamidori alchemy meister than any nukige visual novel. So no, I want a game, not porn. Better said I want a game with sexy times being part of it.

 

[ChaosOpen]

*A concept isn't only the general setting but the characters, in fact the writing isn't part of a game concept, it is a development and game integration aspect.

I disagree, a good story starts with good characters and then the story is just what they happen to be up to. You can have a shitty story but if you've got good characters, it is still entertaining. However, the most spellbinding story in the world is a complete bore if nobody cares about the characters in it. As any good story starts with the main characters faults and covers how he overcomes those faults to emerge victorious. You think if Frodo was a brave warrior his quest to Mordor would be interesting? No, it was interesting because he made the trip despite being a coward.

*About the NTR talk it was for example if it should be unavoidable, avoidable, optional or don't be part of a game, each of them is different and the development is different. The difference between avoidable and optional is that the first requires stats and game mechanics while the second is option based. In fact everything you said is related to uses and combinations, I have to say that didn't expect that you could miss my point here. You just give situations that are exactly related to what I said.

No, I said that using NTR to punish the player isn't anything new in terms of the use of NTR, so people's reaction to NTR is to just pass on it, as it tends to be the same old shit. If it can be simply turned off and nothing changes, then why have it to begin with? Doesn't seem like the story really relies on it, it's just kinda there, clearly as fetish bait. It's insulting to artists to call someone writing the same generic NTR plot "artistic," which is why people who have seen it before want to know if they can turn it off, it's HIGHLY unlikely the writer has changed much and it was a turn off the first time you watched it, and it's unlikely you're about to put a new spin on it. Plus, the thing the player does wrong tends to be rather eclectic, often something like "remember when you grew suspicious when she was cheating on you? That is why she left you."

...What?

*People don't produce or translate things with no demand, if the money is enough people do it, however what is true is that most people tend to not take risks.

I suppose you're right, however, that doesn't make it any less frustrating to see "yet another NTR game" in the tags, Atelier Sakura isn't the most creative company in the world, and knock-offs of bad games aren't something people look forward to. But I suppose since a core fanbase buys every single one, they keep churning them out.

*Your last part of the post isn't being honest, it's why you are here but not why everyone is here, I don't understand why people love to think that everyone that plays H games, takes them as porn, I enjoy much more a game like kamidori alchemy meister than any nukige visual novel. So no, I want a game, not porn. Better said I want a game with sexy times being part of it.

I am not saying there aren't some good VNs out there which I will admit I did go into for the plot rather than the "plot," Utawarerumono, The Fruit of Grisaia, Maitetsu, and Katawa Shoujo are some examples(though there are others), but those are in the minority, and tend to be a pleasant surprise rather than something I know beforehand. Because, after years of disappointment, I started to decide whether to give games a chance based on whether there is sex, because if a plot does turn out to be an incoherent mess, I can just say "well, at least there is porn." I just figured other people have a similar philosophy.

 

[DawnCry]

I disagree, a good story starts with good characters and then the story is just what they happen to be up to. You can have a shitty story but if you've got good characters, it is still entertaining. However, the most spellbinding story in the world is a complete bore if nobody cares about the characters in it. As any good story starts with the main characters faults and covers how he overcomes those faults to emerge victorious. You think if Frodo was a brave warrior his quest to Mordor would be interesting? No, it was interesting because he made the trip despite being a coward.


No, I said that using NTR to punish the player isn't anything new in terms of the use of NTR, so people's reaction to NTR is to just pass on it, as it tends to be the same old shit. If it can be simply turned off and nothing changes, then why have it to begin with? Doesn't seem like the story really relies on it, it's just kinda there, clearly as fetish bait. It's insulting to artists to call someone writing the same generic NTR plot "artistic," which is why people who have seen it before want to know if they can turn it off, it's HIGHLY unlikely the writer has changed much and it was a turn off the first time you watched it, and it's unlikely you're about to put a new spin on it. Plus, the thing the player does wrong tends to be rather eclectic, often something like "remember when you grew suspicious when she was cheating on you? That is why she left you."

...What?


I suppose you're right, however, that doesn't make it any less frustrating to see "yet another NTR game" in the tags, Atelier Sakura isn't the most creative company in the world, and knock-offs of bad games aren't something people look forward to. But I suppose since a core fanbase buys every single one, they keep churning them out.


I am not saying there aren't some good VNs out there which I will admit I did go into for the plot rather than the "plot," Utawarerumono, The Fruit of Grisaia, Maitetsu, and Katawa Shoujo are some examples(though there are others), but those are in the minority, and tend to be a pleasant surprise rather than something I know beforehand. Because, after years of disappointment, I started to decide whether to give games a chance based on whether there is sex, because if a plot does turn out to be an incoherent mess, I can just say "well, at least there is porn." I just figured other people have a similar philosophy.

Mate it's hard for us to conversate if you can't focus on the point I'm saying but rather suddenly go into a diferent direction, I could say yes to all your post without thinking and you wouldn't be able to find any contradiction between what I said and what you said. Let's try again:

-First of all what is a concept? I believe that you just have the wrong idea about what it is so you jump around the theme. A concept is the setting (medieval time, fantasy, modern times...) + characters (talking about the MC, main characters and secondary ones that appear in the story) + lore (world building in case that is necessary, it is usually a must if you do a fantasy game).

When you have the concept then you start the writing, all you are saying is that the characters is the most important part for you, but can you see that what you say isn't related to what I'm saying?, overall if you have a good concept you can have good writing, if not it will have inconsistency or errors everywhere. In fact you are just saying "I disagree" to something that is exactly complementary to what you are saying, this is the irony.

-Again, I just do an overview of the general options as to how to take a fetish and you just focus on being critic of how developers use their resources as if it's anywhere related to what I said, I haven't even talked or said anything about NTR plots, what I have said is the ways related to using a fetish, being unavoidable, avoidable, optional and inexistent. That many NTR plots that are currently being done lacks imagination? yeah I agree, but that isn't what I'm talking about.

-I personally hope that kagura games start to translate more interesting games, have been waiting for dungeon town a long time. But I just mean to say what I said, people try to take it easy, we had the boom on incest games, the boom on pure harem games, the boom of good for nothing MC's that suddenly get a way to not be hated by the whole world.

It's just a cycle.

-Overall the last thing you said it's just your personal compromise, because you didn't find games that were good enough and got disappointed then you changed how you think and just focused on the porn aspect, however... if one day we had big games like the witcher entering into the porn aspect wouldn't it be nice?.

I understand what you mean in most of your points, but it's just that you aren't focusing on what I talk about.

 

[Orlov]

I have no problems with futa or chastity in a femdom game. I hope there's some extreme puppyplay involved cuz thats super rare in games of this genre, and while darktoz did work it in a route in asylum I think he botched the ending.

 

[Tuanorgas]

I know I’m a little late for this topic but In general, I think you should include fetishes you like personally. This way you will attract an audience with similar taste. Especially if this is your first game. Make a game you would like to play . Just be upfront about what is included.

Regarding what to make unavoidable, that's a hard question. In my opinion most harcore fetishes like scat, extreme violence, bloody techniques etc. should be avoidable. Chasity is relatively widespread (at least in the BDSM community) so that should be safe.

Futadom on the other hand… This is mostly about personal preference. I'm a submissive masochist, but I'm still straight so seeing too many dicks in a game might be a bit off putting. That includes futas, NTR, forced homosexuality etc. I think this might be a reason why these fetishes are so controversial. I might be wrong though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. In conclusion I think it depends how relevant it is to the main story. Skipping too much might not be a good idea.

Also forced sex and forced ejacultion is kind of overdone with all the monster girl games, so maybe try to limit that. I would like to see some variety .

 

[Gamesstar]

I love light femdom stuffs. Mostly foot stuff. For an example a strong guy getting dominated by a sweet, kind and a confident women. She is even sweet while dominating him. Foot lick, foot job in a dominant way and tease and denial using her foot.....that is my favorite . He is submissive only to her not to other women. If he sees a bitch, he loves to see her on her knees. I never played a game like that. Maybe you can include these stuffs.

 

[MangoMeta]

Thank you for yours replies, guys.

I would like to answer personally to everyone, but I don't, because it takes me a lot of time to express my thoughts in English. I hope for your understanding.

First of all a few words about what should you expect from my game. I have to agree that femdom is a broad concept, but I want to note that I did not just mention Darktoz's games. I'm making a purely femdom game too, for those whose main deviation is DS and/or SM. Nothing like "hero lives with mom and two sistters and one of them is a bossy bitch". In my mind it's not a femdom when girl in a dark leather pushes guy on the bed and "dominantly" sucks his dick, like a few slaps on the ass while fucking your girlfriend is not a maledom.


I have stories for two VN games, going to make them on Unity later. For now it's too much done for this game to change the platform.

What is done already:
- Scenario;
- All maps;
- Almost all quests and features;
- Almost all characters.
What is left to do:
- Write all dialogues in English (the hardest part for me);
- Render scenes.

Have decided to make the most extreme SM scenes skipable. Something like MC would be able to pass out with fear before action, with consequences in the form of trolling from girls later... Chastity will be unavoidable.

Haven't decided what to do with futas yet. According to the scenario almost half of the characters are futas. There are many plot moments in which they dominate the MC in not H scenes. It's easy to make H scenes avoidable/skipable, but I can't make other interactions avoidable. In my view, if I considered futa content is a gay thing, it would be unacceptable for me to tolerate humiliation or any domination from them too (even in dialogues).
Looks like including both hard femdom and futa content will significantly narrow the target audience of the game, but I actually creating the game because I want to create games, not just for money... Never mind, just thinking out loud.

Spoiler: "I can’t believe they want to avoid me..."

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what the point of asking for opinions only to disregard everything and just make it all unavoidable? what a waste of time

 

[JudasTheUG]

Hi first off all i would love to play your game as an femdom game player. But if we come to your questions.
1-) Will there be any MM sex scene envolving MC if because there is no point of asking futa. But if there isn't put futa content optional render same photo with a strapon and a female dick.
2-)If we can go allof the game gentle femdom you need both in and out of chastity renders. but if hard femdom is forced so does chastity they always hold hands .
3-)And if you do this game for free because you want go with what sounds good to you. if you do this game to make money from patreon or some thing ask in pools and read reviews so you can adjust to their liking. I hope i could be a little bit of service to you.But most importantly <= Have FUN =>

 

[desperatecub02]

I never understood why femdom and chastity always seemed to go together? You might as well call it a torture game at that point because there is nothing sexual about the game, it's just torture. I mean, was the Spanish inquisition just BDSM play? They whipped people and stuck things up their butt, am I to assume that replacing an inquisitor with a woman suddenly makes a hentai game?

I thought BDSM was all about turning a person into a sex toy, which is why all of the femdom games I came across had a lot of sex and cunnilingus, but it was decided by the woman and mostly with either her on top or doing none of the work.

make something like futadom world but with voice