Unity Something Unlimited [v2.4.8] [Gunsmoke Games]

[alex090111]

Full save for android please

 

[Mike109947239]

Now that I bought the leash, I couldn't use it on any heroines, there is only a nickname options

 

[rbelmont]

Now that I bought the leash, I couldn't use it on any heroines, there is only a nickname options

Don't you need to make it your active item on your own room?

 

[Mishanya1004]

Hey Everyone,

We made a free blog post regarding the direction of the Unity version. This specifically will impact the updating of links to this thread.

You must be registered to see the links

*It's a free post btw so don't be weird about actually reading it.

Here’s the deal: we’ve officially shifted gears. The Unity version has taken a backseat to working directly in Ren’Py. That means instead of developing content in Unity and then porting it to Ren’Py Events, we’re flipping the script.

Well, thanks for being honest I guess.
Suppose we will be stuck with barely any content, shitty art and "events" that go nowhere and don't progress the plot for how long it takes for you guys to fix the spaghetti you made. Really, is there even a justifiable reason why you began in Unity way back when?

Ren'Py was already a thing by that point, and had quite a few games to its name, and on top of that, Unity has always been known to be a rather complicated affair.
And it isn't like you ever had a true artistic/game-worthy endeavor - like you so poignantly said it was always about "tits" (though not small ones, as we've repeatedly seen), meaning that for all intents and purposes there was no actual reason for you to start working in Unity, double so since games released through Ren'Py often have more features and easier coding mechanics than SU (in long-term, btw, to reply to those saying that it isn't really the case: after a couple of years you do, eventually, reach a somewhat stable, ready-to-update build that is also easy to work in).

At this point this all feels like a particularly shitty gacha developer trying desperately to justify why their game is slowly dying - moving away from key-content, inserting worse character models and just keeping it afloat through events.

And before you start calling me "an empty hater" (which y'all might) - let me be clear about a couple of things:
First off, I understand how difficult it is to make a video game, especially one in Unity. That, honestly, isn't the problem here. Hell, I would even be glad to wait if it gave us any new content (relevant to the original, mainline, game, btw, such as cells).

I was also fully willing to go into dialogue with Gunsmoke once they finally showed up here, in spite of the fact that they gave us the same empty platitudes about "difficulty" and "costliness" as they did many a time before:

You must be registered to see the links

- 6 years have passed, and the tune remains the same.
Second, I also don't want to say I can make it better - cause I can't. I'm a depressed lazy-ass autist who can barely draw or code to save his life.

What I can say, however, is that I know a thing or two about effort vs reward.

And that still remains my key problem here - you went from one-month, to two-month, to "whenever it is finished I guess" development cycles, while:
- getting more money
- the amount of actual content dwindled
- the art turned worse and less pleasing to see according to most people on this very forum
- switching to a different engine that, according to you, should streamline and fasten your workload
- and still suffering from the same issues as people complained about in the cells: not being able to focus on one thing and just spreading yourself thinner than the diarrhea from a dog that ate too much

If, for example, the "events" in Ren'Py were released quicker than the cell content, despite the art getting worse, and were actually all finished (story-wise) while contributing to some grand narrative, MCU-style - I would accept that. Would I still be disappointed that the reason why I started this game half-a-decade ago (namely, the ability to fuck the shit out of Miss Martian drawn in a style matching Bruce Timm's legendary artwork) was abandoned for something else?
Yeah, probably.

But I wouldn't be mad.

In that post from 6 years ago SR7 mentioned how one of the key reasons for slow development was the fact that they worked solo on the art. And I respect that. But that was when the art was truly one of a kind, and even more so (pls don't ban me I'm not accusing Gunsmoke of using LLM's), this was years before the arrival of machine-generated artwork that - as another thread has shown - does a more accurate job of replicating SR7s old art than SR7 himself.

Do I understand the thing about Unity being spaghetti code and difficult to develop? Yes. Do I also get why people wanted them to abandon the old style of developing and switch to a newer, Ren'Py based one? Yep.
Do I understand why that had to be combined with all the other shit I outlined in this rant?
N-O-P-E.

(and now I'm gonna wait until I get banned for suggesting that machine generation does a better job of making SU art than SR7 himself, as a human artist lmao unless that doesn't fall into the "suggesting he uses AI" category)

I do believe the dev will go back to the main game after Apocalypse event, like the Cell content as even though It’s finished. There’s clearly indications in the game that there’s plans for it (Third upgrade option that’s blanked out) And additional Summon rooms and Cell rooms which leaves room for other heroines for when they go back to it.

Oh, you sweet summer child.
The "additional rooms" thing has been present there since I first discovered this game - in 2019 or 2020, and was there even in earlier versions. Yeah, some of them got filled, but this isn't even remotely proof of more content down the line. The summon thing stayed unchanged since the introduction of Raven, as an example.

 

[Mike109947239]

Don't you need to make it your active item on your own room?

Thank you

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

I'm going to ignore the backhanded comments as I believe you're just frustrated, and turning us into your personal punching probably feels pretty good. So I'm sorry we have made you this frustrated, it was never our intention.

I want to say that it's important that we exist in the same factual reality, so I'm going to build on some of your statements, and in no way am I saying your wrong. We all spin our narrative, but to have impactful discussions we should talk about the same thing.

Well, thanks for being honest I guess.
Suppose we will be stuck with barely any content, shitty art and "events" that go nowhere and don't progress the plot for how long it takes for you guys to fix the spaghetti you made. Really, is there even a justifiable reason why you began in Unity way back when?

There a reason we used Unity. Because SR7 was comfortable in that environment, and has no coding skills in python. He can code a little in python but is no where near fluent. I feel that is justifiable.

Ren'Py was already a thing by that point, and had quite a few games to its name, and on top of that, Unity has always been known to be a rather complicated affair.

I agree, and many of those outsourced programmers, we chose not to and go with a plug in that worked fine up until about 2 years ago.

And it isn't like you ever had a true artistic/game-worthy endeavor - like you so poignantly said it was always about "tits" (though not small ones, as we've repeatedly seen), meaning that for all intents and purposes there was no actual reason for you to start working in Unity, double so since games released through Ren'Py often have more features and easier coding mechanics than SU (in long-term, btw, to reply to those saying that it isn't really the case: after a couple of years you do, eventually, reach a somewhat stable, ready-to-update build that is also easy to work in).

I believe you think we had many instances of a crossroads where we decided not to switch. That was never the case until 2023. Unity was just fine, and then their CEO switched and we decided we wanted to move. That is 8 years of us being completely happy with Unity. In fact we would love to still use it, but the company is dog shit.

At this point this all feels like a particularly shitty gacha developer trying desperately to justify why their game is slowly dying - moving away from key-content, inserting worse character models and just keeping it afloat through events.

And before you start calling me "an empty hater" (which y'all might) - let me be clear about a couple of things:
First off, I understand how difficult it is to make a video game, especially one in Unity. That, honestly, isn't the problem here. Hell, I would even be glad to wait if it gave us any new content (relevant to the original, mainline, game, btw, such as cells).

So you want more cell content? Is it just the type of content (corruption) you want? I have stated it before but Gotham was light on that style of content, where places like Themyscira (one of the most liked areas of the game outside the cells) contains more. So if this is just about the type of content we're well aware of the requests and are planning on including more corruption dynamics in future builds.

I was also fully willing to go into dialogue with Gunsmoke once they finally showed up here, in spite of the fact that they gave us the same empty platitudes about "difficulty" and "costliness" as they did many a time before:

You must be registered to see the links

- 6 years have passed, and the tune remains the same.
Second, I also don't want to say I can make it better - cause I can't. I'm a depressed lazy-ass autist who can barely draw or code to save his life.

I'm sorry but I'm slightly confused. That post indicates that SR7 was doing all the coding and art in Unity (still is), and that finding a replacement is not possible (still the case). The post indicates we're Gunsmoke Games (our logo shows that). That we're completing cell content (we have), full animations were stopped (they have been). In my opinion that shows us being consistent and doing what we said we will.

What I can say, however, is that I know a thing or two about effort vs reward.

And that still remains my key problem here - you went from one-month, to two-month, to "whenever it is finished I guess" development cycles, while:
- getting more money
- the amount of actual content dwindled
- the art turned worse and less pleasing to see according to most people on this very forum
- switching to a different engine that, according to you, should streamline and fasten your workload
- and still suffering from the same issues as people complained about in the cells: not being able to focus on one thing and just spreading yourself thinner than the diarrhea from a dog that ate too much

I'm going to build on your story here in an attempt to bring us to the same factual reality, I'm in no way saying you're wrong.

- Getting more money - How is this a problem for you? and how do you think this impacts development negatively?

- the amount of actual content dwindled - We have tracked internal scene count metrics for over 6 years now and we land in very specific ranges. The problem is that some builds have content that is built up over months. When that build gets released with double the content, people assume it was created within that time frame when it was not. So no content hasn't dwindled, it's just large builds give the impression of that due to content being built up then released.

- the art turned worse and less pleasing to see according to most people on this very forum - This specific complaint was regarding Raven from Superbabes who is a cosplayer. People who hold spacebar just to get to images skipped the idea. That art is much better than any other art in SU, and SR7 cleverly used a cosplayer to flex some artistic muscle.

- switching to a different engine that, according to you, should streamline and fasten your workload - I agree that this is the case. The last build was implemented all content and tested within 36 hrs and released. Most of the Unity builds can take upwards of 14 days.

- and still suffering from the same issues as people complained about in the cells: not being able to focus on one thing and just spreading yourself thinner than the diarrhea from a dog that ate too much - I disagree with this statement, over the last 6 years we have been very focused, cells are complete, Themyscira has an ending, Gotham has had 2 of the best updates in the last 5 years.

If, for example, the "events" in Ren'Py were released quicker than the cell content, despite the art getting worse, and were actually all finished (story-wise) while contributing to some grand narrative, MCU-style - I would accept that. Would I still be disappointed that the reason why I started this game half-a-decade ago (namely, the ability to fuck the shit out of Miss Martian drawn in a style matching Bruce Timm's legendary artwork) was abandoned for something else?
Yeah, probably.

Ok, so let me summarize this and let me know if I got it wrong. You want faster updates than cell content, art that is similar to cell content, and have a plot that is finished that contributed to a grand MCU-Style? What you're asking for is already underway, we announced a MCU-style plot last year. SR7 has his own style, he loves Bruce Timm (and yes he may have contacted us in the past), and his depecitions of many characters are very much SR7's own (there are many in Gotham that Bruce never touched). That style is not abadoned, it's in every image.

But I wouldn't be mad.

In that post from 6 years ago SR7 mentioned how one of the key reasons for slow development was the fact that they worked solo on the art. And I respect that. But that was when the art was truly one of a kind, and even more so (pls don't ban me I'm not accusing Gunsmoke of using LLM's), this was years before the arrival of machine-generated artwork that - as another thread has shown - does a more accurate job of replicating SR7s old art than SR7 himself.

I want to build some context here. SR7 does all the art and PROGRAMMING in Unity (not just art). The AI is trained on SR7's art, not the other way around. Additionally many AI art producers have come out in this very thread to argue against your stance. And if you examine the art pixel to pixel, the AI art is absolutely dog shit (I'm certain in the future it will be much better). But if you just look at it quickly you might miss the fact a persons elbow doesn't bend that way, or the legs are odd, and you can ignore shapes being weird. But overall AI doesn't do a better job, at all.

Do I understand the thing about Unity being spaghetti code and difficult to develop? Yes. Do I also get why people wanted them to abandon the old style of developing and switch to a newer, Ren'Py based one? Yep.
Do I understand why that had to be combined with all the other shit I outlined in this rant?
N-O-P-E.

I believe your frustration is the fact you wanted just a cell style game. If we just did cells indefinitly you would be one of our longest ever supporters. But many of your other frustrations, are used to build on your frustration and justify it. Or maybe you just want us to cower in a corner so you can shit kick us and feel better. If that is the case I'm truely sorry we made you feel that way, it was never the intention. We just wanted to make the best damn DC porn game ever.

So as I have said before we're planning much more, we implemented scorecards that identify weak points in narrative (corruption over the last two builds scored 4-5/10). So we can look to address that. As well if corruption is your main want, that can be achieved in many other areas.

Again sorry you're so frustrated with our game, we're working to try and make it better.

 

[Mishanya1004]

I will reply to this point-by-point at some other time (if only cause rn I'm tired, and have other, better, things to do) but will - however - already address one particularly egregious response provided here.

- the art turned worse and less pleasing to see according to most people on this very forum - This specific complaint was regarding Raven from Superbabes who is a cosplayer. People who hold spacebar just to get to images skipped the idea. That art is much better than any other art in SU, and SR7 cleverly used a cosplayer to flex some artistic muscle.

No, that is the complaint YOU saw. The only one. Not sure which cosplayer SR7 used but if it was ONLY Raven then we wouldn't have had the point where people started accusing him of using the-thing-I-will-not-name (which he isn't, and I'm sorry if I assumed otherwise), leading to a modmin intervention.

However, this one case still does not explain the myriad other examples people have made in this very thread of the art getting worse qua proportions, way too exaggerated as far as characters go (Lex Luthor's magical snake-penis and Barbara's helium boobs come to mind) and him redesigning older characters - with an established visual style within the DCAU - to suit his preferences (see Catwoman who went from a well-proportioned, pin-up design resembling her version in BTAS to a T to whatever the hell she is now).
Additionally, and that is something else people noticed, a lot of the characters now look the same, visually, using the same basic proportions to achieve a certain result. Or were all the other girls also Superbabes and cosplayers?

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

I will reply to this point-by-point at some other time (if only cause rn I'm tired, and have other, better, things to do) but will - however - already address one particularly egregious response provided here.



No, that is the complaint YOU saw. The only one. Not sure which cosplayer SR7 used but if it was ONLY Raven then we wouldn't have had the point where people started accusing him of using the-thing-I-will-not-name (which he isn't, and I'm sorry if I assumed otherwise), leading to a modmin intervention.

Again Mishanay1004 I will build on your facts so we can both operate in the same reality. In no way are you wrong, but I think it just lacks some depth.

I aggregate far more comments than just on this thread, in fact we have 10+ channels from which we aggregate comments and complaints. So no I didn't only see ONE complaint, but I see ALL complaints. The complaint I mentioned was the largest from this thread, and specifically has been disputed multiple times on this thread by users who read the narrative.

As for why we were accused of AI usage. We made a post that we wanted to explore how it was being used. We wanted to get an understanding of how it worked. We also mentioned we would announce its usage and where. Guess who accused us of usage that very next update, with definitive proof? They're probably not around anymore, but we had to share the psd layers, to prove otherwise. Guess what the person said next build? AI for certain!

I even stated in other dev channels that there will be a time when we will get accused because of how AI workflow works. People who don't have trained eyes or understanding will see an AI image and believe 100% that the artist must be using AI. The realization that AI is trained on the artist work (The egg comes before the chicken) seems to be missed completely. This is the reason we were targeted, and not due to proportion changes. The fact people shifted to proportion changes was because AI art producers came to our aid and disproved the shiney AI fingerprint they claimed. All the AI producers even state there is no way for them to produce content like SR7 hand draws.

I want to say that AI accusations only came from a small group of people on this thread, and F95 ownership has taken a very aggresive stance dealing with those because of the unfounded nature of the claims.

Again I'm only using this to build context on you thin statement. You're right people accused us of AI usage, and for reasons you did say. However there is a bigger narrative than "art getting shittier", as that is just the NEW complaint to rally the troops.

However, this one case still does not explain the myriad other examples people have made in this very thread of the art getting worse qua proportions, way too exaggerated as far as characters go (Lex Luthor's magical snake-penis and Barbara's helium boobs come to mind) and him redesigning older characters - with an established visual style within the DCAU - to suit his preferences (see Catwoman who went from a well-proportioned, pin-up design resembling her version in BTAS to a T to whatever the hell she is now).
Additionally, and that is something else people noticed, a lot of the characters now look the same, visually, using the same basic proportions to achieve a certain result. Or were all the other girls also Superbabes and cosplayers?

Again I will build on the context of your statement. 2016-2021 the main complaint about the art was "same body, different head" , which then transitioned to "copy & paste" in Themyscira, which now is "a lot of the characters now look the same". Even though the art has shifted which was the main complaint in 2016-2021, and even with a whole new body style Themyscira, and now with Gotham and it's new style of character. The complaint seems to be circular, and really it boils down to peoples preference. Themyscira and the amazons is one of the most well regarded art in all our years. Others like you have stated you like the cell style characters, many have come out and raved to us about Gotham's art, and love the Superbabe content. If we go back to the old content, I'm sure your frustration would still be here.

On a second note, we can forgive spelling mistakes, and grammatical errors regularly (I for one do it constantly), but if an artist draws a longer wang, then that is proof he's getting shittier. But again nit picks like that I believe are just used to further hardern the frustration you feel regarding other topics. And I'm starting to think there will be no way to make you less frustrated. Even if we made a game just for you.

 

[Sacra_Umbra]

me reading all of that exchange above:

 

[\\_Tremolo_//]

me reading all of that exchange above:
View attachment 4887990

fr

 

[Fapokso]

Devs looking for feedback on the "troll" forum cause their paypigs suck at giving criticism

 

[Lynx123]

I don't get the decision to stick with Unity for PC, while SR7 may be comfortable with it, by your own admission it is eating a huge chunk of your development time. Especially now that Renpy Android has become the main focus, you should not even bother with continuing on Unity, instead just learn to code in Python and fully shift the game to Renpy for PC/Android. You are being extremely inefficient upkeeping the game on 2 different engines.
I refuse to believe that the time needed to transfer this game to Renpy is as long as you are saying, ALL of the artwork and dialogue needed for an "Initial Release" for the base game is essentially done, its just the coding that is needed, you don't even have audio to implement.
Instead of spending your "extra time" figuring out the code for your next (intentionally inconsistent) Unity Release, you should commit to learning Python and creating the "Initial Release" of the Renpy PC version. While I am unfamiliar with Renpy, some of the code in the Android version should be transferrable to the PC version too.

 

[Erebus69]

I don't get the decision to stick with Unity for PC, ... Especially now that Renpy Android has become the main focus,

I'm going to guess pleasing where the player base is developing or migrated to, while not abandoning the old player base. While I'm not sure if those developing nations whose primary device is an android will bring the subscriber dollars. I know I'll only play on PC as I dont like gaming on handhelds

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

I don't get the decision to stick with Unity for PC, while SR7 may be comfortable with it, by your own admission it is eating a huge chunk of your development time. Especially now that Renpy Android has become the main focus, you should not even bother with continuing on Unity, instead just learn to code in Python and fully shift the game to Renpy for PC/Android. You are being extremely inefficient upkeeping the game on 2 different engines.
I refuse to believe that the time needed to transfer this game to Renpy is as long as you are saying, ALL of the artwork and dialogue needed for an "Initial Release" for the base game is essentially done, its just the coding that is needed, you don't even have audio to implement.
Instead of spending your "extra time" figuring out the code for your next (intentionally inconsistent) Unity Release, you should commit to learning Python and creating the "Initial Release" of the Renpy PC version. While I am unfamiliar with Renpy, some of the code in the Android version should be transferrable to the PC version too.

Our primary focus is not Android. Our primary focus is SU PC and always will be. Sorry if there was any confusion.

 

[Devil1661]

why isnt there any new starfire content?

 

[Lynx123]

Our primary focus is not Android. Our primary focus is SU PC and always will be. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Yeah my concern is not about which device is the priority, but the decision to continue using the Unity engine for the PC version instead of Renpy for both PC & Android, it would streamline your production pipeline by so much. I am just expanding on your statements that the Unity version has taken a backseat in favor of Renpy (Android), my understanding is that the Renpy version will get the latest update first and at some point in time be released on Unity with no clear release date.

Unity was just fine, and then their CEO switched and we decided we wanted to move. That is 8 years of us being completely happy with Unity. In fact we would love to still use it, but the company is dog shit.

I just see this as an opportunity to abandon Unity altogether and learning Python, make better use of the money you are getting, stop dicking around with an engine you don't even want to use.

 

[Mishanya1004]

me reading all of that exchange above:
View attachment 4887990

Поверь, была бы моя воля, я бы так на пасты не исходил лол

Also, it still feels funny to see the developer seeking criticism outside of their bubble, and once that criticism is provided they immediately reply with "no you don't understand here is why this bad thing is actually good".

I just see this as an opportunity to abandon Unity altogether and learning Python, make better use of the money you are getting, stop dicking around with an engine you don't even want to use.

Or hire one - or several - outside programmers that y'know, actually know Python to fasten the workload and speed up the transfer process. But instead it is better to talk about "diversification" and "switching gears" while refusing to admit that you have been spitting out the same excuses for years. (Which is also what the Reddit post was about, btw, and not that you committed to the stuff outlined in there).

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

Instead of spending your "extra time" figuring out the code for your next (intentionally inconsistent) Unity Release, you should commit to learning Python and creating the "Initial Release" of the Renpy PC version. While I am unfamiliar with Renpy, some of the code in the Android version should be transferrable to the PC version too.

Can you clarify intentionally inconsistent? I'm uncertain to what you're meaning.

As for learning python, we have had a python programmer on staff since 2021. Converting the Android to PC would involve re-exporting many images to a higher quality, which would take a significant amount of time as I believe Donna and Cassie is about 146 images alone.

Поверь, была бы моя воля, я бы так на пасты не исходил лол

Also, it still feels funny to see the developer seeking criticism outside of their bubble, and once that criticism is provided they immediately reply with "no you don't understand here is why this bad thing is actually good".

Again Mishanya I was in agreement with everything you said, I just built on the context, and the narrative. My next response will provide another example.

Or hire one - or several - outside programmers that y'know, actually know Python to fasten the workload and speed up the transfer process. But instead it is better to talk about "diversification" and "switching gears" while refusing to admit that you have been spitting out the same excuses for years. (Which is also what the Reddit post was about, btw, and not that you committed to the stuff outlined in there).

I agree Mishanya and that is why we hired a programmer on staff in 2021, who actually knows Python, and has sped up testing, and implementation proceess. He's been full-time with us since 2022.

Also I haven't offerd a single excuse in my recent statements. I will say again that I feel your frustration wouldn't be solved even if I made a game exactly to the image you want. Again I'm sorry you're not getting what you want, and we apologize for any frustration you feel, it was never our intention to make you so angry and frustrated. I wish there was something I can offer you, but I feel just being your punching bag is probably all you want.

 

[zura133]

Can you clarify intentionally inconsistent? I'm uncertain to what you're meaning.

As for learning python, we have had a python programmer on staff since 2021. Converting the Android to PC would involve re-exporting many images to a higher quality, which would take a significant amount of time as I believe Donna and Cassie is about 146 images alone.




Again Mishanya I was in agreement with everything you said, I just built on the context, and the narrative. My next response will provide another example.



I agree Mishanya and that is why we hired a programmer on staff in 2021, who actually knows Python, and has sped up testing, and implementation proceess. He's been full-time with us since 2022.

Also I haven't offerd a single excuse in my recent statements. I will say again that I feel your frustration wouldn't be solved even if I made a game exactly to the image you want. Again I'm sorry you're not getting what you want, and we apologize for any frustration you feel, it was never our intention to make you so angry and frustrated. I wish there was something I can offer you, but I feel just being your punching bag is probably all you want.

Have you thought about showing some future content? That would at least calm some of the waters. And if I may offer a suggestion, could you add breastfeeding to the game? It could be just for some girls, or even make it another money-making mechanic. After all, Luthor is after money, and it would be entertaining to see some heroines reduced to cattle to produce milk.

 

[Erebus69]

Have you thought about showing some future content? That would at least calm some of the waters.

A roadmap with milestones,they already do art streams