Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

That's a very fair analysis and I agree.

But that's why I'm a little afraid that the story could end up frustratingly shallow, if it turns out that the "a" variable is about turning Ed into an "alpha" for example.

Right, I've so far refused to see "a" and "l" as alpha and loser respectively. It'd be a damn shame if that turns out to be the case.

 

[Canto Forte]

The two character traits collecting points in the game code are Looser and Alpha.
You are both right .. Ed is Alpha and is battling Alpha males in this latest update.
Just like in monkey world, Alpha males fight eachother over the babes, all the babes.
Also, Elsa the trust fund junkey loosing her time in a thankless job like Fleur or Ed,
who are both stagnant and bland just like Elsa is unspectacularly totally boring,
cynical and dismissive of everything and everyone, as she ”already knows everything about everyone”,
oddly enough, the exact way Ed sees most of his world also.

You can't really participate, if you don't have any capital, right? That's why Elsa is the catalyst of almost every single plot point

Right, I've so far refused to see "a" and "l" as alpha and loser respectively. It'd be a damn shame if that turns out to be the case.

Elsa buys the suit, Elsa produces the plot, Elsa uses and abuses Ed for her own gain:
Ed is her ticket to making it outta her thankless dead end job - his genious producing
genuine priceless algorithm to make the company go forward, not like all the other lack luster employees
only looking for promotion but lacking the skill to produce the event that would get them the promotion.

 

[bacienvu88]

Seeing this as hogwash is definitely healthier, and I do envy that outlook, but no, I think capitalism is by and large zero-sum.

I think I'll skip going into details of capitalism. Better to read wikipedia or similar.

In the context of this discussion I think it is more fair to say that "corporate internal politics is by and large zero-sum".

Right, I've so far refused to see "a" and "l" as alpha and loser respectively. It'd be a damn shame if that turns out to be the case.

I would be surprised if it means that, yes. Ed is clearly a loser in the beginning and much less so at the current update regardless of choices. And he is equally clearly never an "alpha" regardless of choices.

 

[Hildegardt]

I would be surprised if it means that, yes. Ed is clearly a loser in the beginning and much less so at the current update regardless of choices. And he is equally clearly never an "alpha" regardless of choices.

I guess it depends on your definition of what an alpha is. The whole concept is lame enough, but the ed_a points are connected to choices like "grab her by the pussy" or accusing Elsa of being a lesbian, because she looked at a woman. And it doesn't seem like these choices are supposed to be bad, which is a little damning imo. They score you the only girl possible so far for one.
I feel like the ed_a choices are typical enough to paint a picture. But you're right that the variables don't have an impact on the main plot, yet.

 

[jufot]

I feel like the ed_a choices are typical enough to paint a picture.

Right, so I'd rather assume a is for asshole

 

[realjitter]

Ed is clearly a loser in the beginning

How is he a loser in the beginning?. Someone who beats his wife is a loser, but Edward?. He's down on life, depressed, borderline schizophrenic. That to me is a troubled person. Everyone is allowed to have problems, but that doesn't make somebody automatically a loser. That's like Alpha and beta thinking

 

[Hildegardt]

Right, so I'd rather assume a is for asshole

That could work, but the ed_a choices still aren't necessarily bad. I guess I wish there was more of a point to acting like an asshole. Justifying assholish behaviour is usually what the whole alpha and beta thing is about.
I wonder what ed_l could be in opposition to the asshole path. It seems like the choices are about being passive and polite.

 

[Dragon59]

Welcome back Raife!

Indeed. It's quite illuminating how so many reviewers and commenters hate Edward (and, in turn, the game) because they see uncomfortable parallels to their own life.

I do believe redemption is possible for Edward and there will likely be a path in that direction, but I agree it's not the point and I do enjoy reading his petulant loser antics.

Elsa deliberately and persistently keeps Edward at arm's length. I think we'll find out why once her true intentions are revealed. Still, you have a point. The game could give us some background on Elsa to humanize her a bit, without involving Edward. A second POV would likely annoy self-inserters, but still...

This looks like a FOI (Freedom of Information Act) report.

 

[EndlessNights]

I wonder what ed_l could be in opposition to the asshole path. It seems like the choices are about being passive and polite.

I think the most common alternate theory I've heard is that the l might stand for love or lover so picking the non-asshole options could put Edward on a more romance-focused path. Here are some other ideas I just came up with:

Luck -- This path leads to Edward winning the lottery and subsequently marrying Alice because sometimes life really is that easy.

lonelyboy15 -- Ed never finds love on this one, but he does leave the corporate rat race behind and ultimately becomes a highly successful vlogger. (This is a

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reference which might be a bit obscure for 2023.)

Lancelot -- Edward steps in to protect a damsel's honor/stop another dude from talking to her and gets murdered in the process. THE END.

...Loser does still sound the most likely, sad to say. Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[vneotpolemus]

I see why you think there's a Faustian element in _Corporate Culture_ vneot... it's an interesting thought.

But... I don't think a Faustian bargain describes what's going on, for a few reasons:

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We're not looking at a version of _Needful Things_... it's more complicated than that. At a certain point, my sense is that Edward might be forced to choose between helping Elsa -- either to aid in achieving her personal objectives, or to protect her -- and realizing his own goals. In other words, he'll need to decide whether their relationship is purely transactional, or not. (At least, I hope this is where sqwl is headed!)

Nice ideas, though...

This is actually pretty close to what I had in mind. The Faustian aspect is metaphorical, not literal - I can't see CC getting supernatural on us. I even think Elsa is genuinely trying to help Edward by making him more like her. But there will be a price to pay.

Even the scene with the Alice dream felt close to being an Elsa scene because dream Alice kind of sounded like Elsa as jufot pointed out.

Dream Alice sounding like Elsa made sense to me. She is the most important person in Ed's life atm (romantic != most important), it makes sense his subconscious is preoccupied with her. Plus, as Elsa keeps pointing out, he doesn't know Alice that well.

That could work, but the ed_a choices still aren't necessarily bad. I guess I wish there was more of a point to acting like an asshole. Justifying assholish behaviour is usually what the whole alpha and beta thing is about.
I wonder what ed_l could be in opposition to the asshole path. It seems like the choices are about being passive and polite.

My theory is the var names do stand for asshole and loser, but that they're not meant to be taken literally. 'Asshole' means being assertive and proactive (and sometimes an asshole), 'Loser' means being polite and passive (and sometimes a loser).

 

[bacienvu88]

I guess it depends on your definition of what an alpha is. The whole concept is lame enough, but the ed_a points are connected to choices like "grab her by the pussy" or accusing Elsa of being a lesbian, because she looked at a woman. And it doesn't seem like these choices are supposed to be bad, which is a little damning imo. They score you the only girl possible so far for one.
I feel like the ed_a choices are typical enough to paint a picture. But you're right that the variables don't have an impact on the main plot, yet.

You also get ed_a points for saying "Thank you" non-ironically. And a lot of the time ed_a is given for just arguing for the sake of arguing with Elsa. You also get both ed_a and ed_l points if you think Alice is kind in the cafe. How can you be both "alpha" and "loser" at the same time? Then we have the standard proud male option of saying "I'm fine" gives you ed_l while admitting being dizzy gives ed_a. While I personally agree that it is more "alpha" to admit it it is not how these games usually go.

Of course there are a lot of arguments for it as well. But I don't know, I feel like that is just trite.

How is he a loser in the beginning?. Someone who beats his wife is a loser, but Edward?. He's down on life, depressed, borderline schizophrenic. That to me is a troubled person. Everyone is allowed to have problems, but that doesn't make somebody automatically a loser. That's like Alpha and beta thinking

Yes. I meant that he is a loser from an alpha/beta point of view. I didn't mean to say I actually think he is a loser.

My theory is the var names do stand for asshole and loser, but that they're not meant to be taken literally. 'Asshole' means being assertive and proactive (and sometimes an asshole), 'Loser' means being polite and passive (and sometimes a loser).

My theory is that sqwl is just trolling.

If you really want me to say a meaning I would use "arbitrary" and "lowkey".

 

[jufot]

My theory is that sqwl is just trolling.

I'm glad he doesn't engage us. It's much more fun to speculate than to know

 

[Canto Forte]

Dev is all over the thread, more so the review section and is all into giving his piece of mind of it all.
Speculating dev is a troll or nonresponsive to his patreons who also post in these threads paints somewhat
of a two face or a four face mask on the dev and such specualtion is unwarranted.

I'm glad he doesn't engage us

Being alpha means being truthful and engaging, like Elsa tells Ed to his face this or that,
her rants, her explanations ... Ed doing it to her is not beta or anything.
MC has read all of these and is fresh on his studies. Elsa has the dismissive attitude towards males
becasue she is woke feminist blabber mouth, being twofaced and playing both sides:
going with girls out to hook up and then beating guys up or just turning into cancel culture
on males just for being males and playing the hook up game in all the hook up clubs she goes to.

All those points are there to represent both that MC is sticking up for himself,
not worrying about telling the truth even if it hurts him or, in his mind, risks alienating Elsa,
while also stating that being alpha does not get you the girl, it makes you play in the big leagues
where battling macho misogynistic hunks get girls hot for them when they state them as their prize.
MC only got a phone number by way of his friend in battle, just acting alpha gets you in the door,
MC still has to go past the doorman or the bully or the bodyguard to get his chance with any girl,
while said girl gets to choose him as the alpha she wants to mate with.

Remember, animal kingdom mating takes many hook ups to make the couple,
nature knows how to build relationships through the crudest of conditions.

You also get ed_a points for saying "Thank you" non-ironically. And a lot of the time ed_a is given for just arguing for the sake of arguing with Elsa. You also get both ed_a and ed_l points if you think Alice is kind in the cafe. How can you be both "alpha" and "loser" at the same time? Then we have the standard proud male option of saying "I'm fine" gives you ed_l while admitting being dizzy gives ed_a. While I personally agree that it is more "alpha" to admit it it is not how these games usually go.

 

[jufot]

Some thoughts on Rebirth's latest update and also on Derealization.

Rebirth is going down the drain fast. On paper, Sharon is still the boss and MC is an inexperienced youngling. In practice, she has become an obedient housewife, unbothered by worldly affairs. MC lies to her and manipulates her frequently. He goes over her head to her boss without consequences and when she finds out, Sharon can't even be bothered to care. Likewise, all other women are submissive dolls for MC to order around. They are little more than slaves to his whims. Even Callisto, supposedly an ancient and powerful being, seems disinterested in punishing his petulant arrogance. At this point, my only interest is seeing the mystery of the cave resolved. Beyond that, I'm done with this game.

On the other hand, I'm really enjoying Derealization. It has very high production values and so much attention to detail. Posing, lighting, facial expressions, transitions, mannerisms, music... all just excellent.

It's mostly a slice of life game revolving around Jake. He is a violent douchebag, but an entertaining one. He frequently breaks the fourth wall to explain his thinking and to my surprise, it's not annoying at all.

There is also Theia, the dead woman from his past appearing as a hallucination. I like her. She's Jake's grief, rage and conscience all rolled into the one.

My favourite bit, though, has to be Jake's sister Jilla and the screeching incel rage she has caused on the game thread. You see, Jilla does porn for a living. How dare she??? It takes a big dose of cognitive dissonance to both be pro porn consumption and anti porn production, but alas, not everyone is bothered by the contradiction. Much like F95 denizens, Jake goes into a predictable caveman rage upon finding out about this and is quite nasty to Jilla. Thankfully, he's almost immediately chided for it by Theia:

Jake: My problem is that the only person I give a shit about is doing...
Theia: Doing what, Jake?
Theia: Doing what she wants without asking your permission?

He still doesn't apologize, but eventually, they make up by agreeing not to talk about it ever again. Did I mention Jake is a douchebag?

Anyway, it's an interesting game. Definitely worth keeping an eye on.

 

[Hildegardt]

Rebirth is going down the drain fast. On paper, Sharon is still the boss and MC is an inexperienced youngling. In practice, she has become an obedient housewife, unbothered by worldly affairs. MC lies to her and manipulates her frequently. He goes over her head to her boss without consequences and when she finds out, Sharon can't even be bothered to care. Likewise, all other women are submissive dolls for MC to order around. They are little more than slaves to his whims. Even Callisto, supposedly an ancient and powerful being, seems disinterested in punishing his petulant arrogance. At this point, my only interest is seeing the mystery of the cave resolved. Beyond that, I'm done with this game.

Oh man, I couldn't agree more. Every single character arc has turned out to be shit so far and Sharon is the latest victim. I never liked how Lauri got thralled back in espisode 1 without any moral dilemma or display of emotion and it seems like this is just the theme of the game. It's a generic harem game, where every single character has to submit and move in with the PC sooner rather than later.

On the other hand, I'm really enjoying Derealization. It has very high production values and so much attention to detail. Posing, lighting, facial expressions, transitions, mannerisms, music... all just excellent.

I was thinking about mentioning this game in here. I agree it's pretty high quality. My only concern is cutting myself on all that edge. I hope it doesn't get too over-the-top.

Have you tried Unscripted? It's similarly high quality, just the posing is a little off in one or two cases and makes the characters look like barrelchested mannequins. The plot is pretty generic sitcom material, but that's a huge step up from most AVNs imo. The dialog and choices are pretty fun.
There's only one heavy petting scene so far and it can be a little challenging to get. I think the game uses simple +1 variables, but it was cleverly done through a multitude of choices and with each having subtle differences, so I felt like I was testing out the compatibility between my PC and the LI. It was pretty immersive. I think there's a lot of potential for roleplaying, even though the PC seems like the author's self-insert (he even is an author in game).

 

[bacienvu88]

Rebirth is going down the drain fast.

Agreed.

On the other hand, I'm really enjoying Derealization. It has very high production values and so much attention to detail. Posing, lighting, facial expressions, transitions, mannerisms, music... all just excellent.

Derealization is great.

There is also Theia, the dead woman from his past appearing as a hallucination. I like her. She's Jake's grief, rage and conscience all rolled into the one.

I think the whole cast is great. And it has some really great dialog going from heartbreaking to comedy gold.
Some of the scenes are really great. Such as the past midnight call to Sydney. Or Chloe's family dinner.
EDIT:

My favourite bit, though, has to be Jake's sister Jilla and the screeching incel rage she has caused on the game thread.

Yeah, I made a couple of posts defending her being a porn actress. Those posts make up a quarter of all facepalms I've got.

Jake goes into a predictable caveman rage

To be fair it isn't that difficult to trigger his rage.

 

[jufot]

My only concern is cutting myself on all that edge. I hope it doesn't get too over-the-top.

Right. I'm guessing that'll get toned down as part of Jake's healing journey.

Have you tried Unscripted?

It's been on my backlog for a while. I guess it's time to give it a go

 

[Hildegardt]

Some of the scenes are really great. Such as the past midnight call to Sydney.

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Are you ready for this?

 

[bacienvu88]

I never liked how Lauri got thralled back in espisode 1 without any moral dilemma or display of emotion and it seems like this is just the theme of the game.

This reminds me that I always think that the way they handle new vampires is so sloppy. It's like it has never happened before. And I mean the whole vampire community, not just Sharon. They emphasize that you need to cut off contact with all acquaintances, friends and family. Considering this, shouldn't they make sure he switches apartments, gets a new phone number, instruct him how to handle them and so on? Considering they didn't do any of that it is quite obvious he would have contact with someone he "shouldn't".

Which also brings me to how miserable it must be to be a vampire there. They are basically confined to one city district unless they get special permission. They can only go out at night so all day activities are out since those aren't open at night. Sure, you can go to a night club, but you can't drink and you can't get really acquainted with them anyway. And if you want something from someone else you owe a favor. Money has been around for 2500 years!!! Just getting food is a PITA. Plus you have to deal with pompous assholes who dictate what you do.

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Are you ready for this?

Not sure what you mean?

Have you tried Unscripted? It's similarly high quality, just the posing is a little off in one or two cases and makes the characters look like barrelchested mannequins. The plot is pretty generic sitcom material, but that's a huge step up from most AVNs imo. The dialog and choices are pretty fun.

It is actually good? Every time I have looked at it I don't get past the hyperbole in their description etc.

 

[jufot]

Some of the scenes are really great. Such as the past midnight call to Sydney. Or Chloe's family dinner.

Agreed on both counts. They are both great characters.

Yeah, I made a couple of posts defending her being a porn actress. Those posts make up a quarter of all facepalms I've got.

Not sure what I expected from the replies you got, but I'm not surprised

To be fair it isn't that difficult to trigger his rage.

Yeah, he's definitely the type to fire a gun at the sun because it's too hot out.