Recommending Story-first games

[Canto Forte]

Aye, aye, skipper!

Canto Forte can you please scale those images wayyy down? They are distractingly large and honestly, inappropriate for this thread. Use your words. If you want to post porn, go to literally any other thread here.

 

[Raife]

Great way to deflect the fact that many still praise Elsa while belittling the MC.

Well done inflicting a fatality on that straw man you set up, there, Canto.

I agree, again, with your point about the excessive loathing directed at Edward on the CC thread... although not on _this_ thread.

 

[Raife]

So, today it's Fight Club
But didn't Elsa said it directly already that it's Cinderella? Ed is Cinderella, Elsa is the Fairy Godmother, Emma is the evil step-mother who forces poor Ed into servitude, Matt and the other dude are step-sisters (Gracious God forbid from such relatives), Alice is the Prince, Ed's jacket which he gave to Alice is Cinderella's shoe, Brown is the King obviously, deal celebration is the royal ball, white Range Rover - Cinderella's golden carriage, which turns into Ed's pumpkin scooter at midnight.

Indeed. That's the framework that Elsa has set up... or more that Edward is the innocent princess who needs to come down out of his tower and experience the world as it is.

The question is whether Elsa is the Fairy Godmother, or the Prince... or a witch character... and to what degree Edward's choices have agency that affect those roles.

Another question in my mind is whether Edward and Elsa are friends or could be friends. I think they are, but it's a strange friendship (and not, pace Canto, because she's a Durden-esque projection).

 

[yossa999]

The rest of your post notwithstanding, this is a bad yardstick to compare CC against. The vast majority of games on this site are cookie cutter girl collectors, with only cursory attention paid to plot and character development. CC stands out because it's almost entirely character driven and doesn't give in to porn tropes at any point. If you refuse to deceive Lucy, there isn't even a sex scene! Are there any other games on F95 like that, despite being in development for 3 years?

What's this, a test? Summer's Gone, Hillside, ... Did I mention Summer's Gone?
And what's going on in their main threads: "Sex when? Incest yes? NTR much? No? What a boring BS, only talking - no fucking, Ima outta here". Now imagine how a developer must feel when they work hard to create an amazing story, with lively, deep and unique characters, and as a result watch the audience flow to the next feckity feck simulator, leaving him nothing but insults and complaints. He must have a strong determination to bring the game to the end and an unshakable faith in success. I have nothing but respect for this rare species, no wonder your short-list on the front page of this thread is really short. But there is always an easy way, just take the most popular cg models of the girls, mix with a dozen kinks, don't forget to add a dead dad and a lethargic but hot mom who doesn't feel anything in her sleep. The plot can be taken from any Brazzers masterpiece. Success is guaranteed.
It's not about your post, just a random ramblings

 

[bacienvu88]

If you refuse to deceive Lucy, there isn't even a sex scene! Are there any other games on F95 like that, despite being in development for 3 years?

There are over 500 games tagged with "no sexual content" on f95, so yes?

 

[jufot]

What's this, a test? Summer's Gone, Hillside, ... Did I mention Summer's Gone?

I'll give you Summer's Gone, but Hillside already has sex with multiple LIs

There are over 500 games tagged with "no sexual content" on f95, so yes?

Eh, that's a bit different. It's one thing for a game to be designed to exclude anything sexually explicit, it's another thing entirely for it to have sex scenes but only rarely in cases where the plot calls for it.

 

[bacienvu88]

Eh, that's a bit different. It's one thing for a game to be designed to exclude anything sexually explicit, it's another thing entirely for it to have sex scenes but only rarely in cases where the plot calls for it.

Sure. But Corporate Culture and Summer's Gone only qualifies because they are not finished yet. I expect both to have plenty sex scenes when the games are completed. Is there any finished game that matches your criteria?

 

[jufot]

Is there any finished game that matches your criteria?

Just going off the list in the OP: A Summer's End, The End of an Actress, Oathbreaker 1 & 2, One Night Stand, and Salome's Kiss.

 

[EndlessNights]

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Does the story treat them with disdain, or does Edward? I've always said I think Edward is an unreliable narrator and we only see things from his twisted perspective. He thinks Lucy is a gold digger, but is she? In my playthrough, I told her I wasn't interested in anything more than FWB. She took that graciously, and said no thanks. The idea of a gold digger only appears if Edward decides to lie to her and manipulate her for "practice". So really, does the disdain come from the game itself, or just Edward?

I've often played around with the idea of Ed as an unreliable narrator as well. In fact, we've had at least one conversation before on this exact topic. Edward's mental health struggles and the Fight Club nods make it easy to think that we're not getting the full, true picture. However, I don't really see much foreshadowing going on to suggest that what we're seeing is not really what's happening or that some other version of Edward is running around and having completely different interactions with people.

I don't want to think Lucy is a gold digger either and that storyline has never made much sense to me, but on their very first date Edward assumes that she is though the player can graciously prevent him from acting on this "insight." What is there to point to that really contradicts his version of events? Mostly I think I just want to hold on to the idea that Lucy is a good and caring person because that was my initial impression of her and I never quite accepted her sudden personality change.

 

[Raife]

I've often played around with the idea of Ed as an unreliable narrator as well. In fact, we've had at least one conversation before on this exact topic. Edward's mental health struggles and the Fight Club nods make it easy to think that we're not getting the full, true picture. However, I don't really see much foreshadowing going on to suggest that what we're seeing is not really what's happening or that some other version of Edward is running around and having completely different interactions with people.

I agree... there's no second version of Edward running around, and Elsa is not some different, female Durden version of Edwards psyche. Otherwise, the plot to this point would make no sense.

Edward is unreliable, in my view, because he frequently lies to himself... either knowingly or subconsciously, especially when faced with difficult choices. Elsa's primary influence has been to force Edward not to self-sabotage that way, which has been entirely positive (although she clearly has her own problems). He is also mentally fragile, due to old traumas... but not delusional -- his traumas mainly manifest in dreams, as well as his self-sabotage at work.

As for Lucy... I don't think she's a gold digger at all. She is just desperate for affection, for meaning... the way a lot of people are. She's appealing, and I think she's essentially a good person (not a 'slut' as some knuckle draggers on the CC thread would have you believe)... only quite hungry for an emotional and physical connection. She just wants to deepen their relationship faster than Edward might wish, given that his attention is elsewhere.

 

[bacienvu88]

As for Lucy... I don't think she's a gold digger at all. She is just desperate for affection, for meaning... the way a lot of people are. She's appealing, and I think she's essentially a good person (not a 'slut' as some knuckle draggers on the CC thread would have you believe)... only quite hungry for an emotional and physical connection. She just wants to deepen their relationship faster than Edward might wish, given that his attention is elsewhere.

To me, Lucy seems like the best choice for a long term relationship. I can see Lucy and Edward love each other for a long term. Say that Edward succeeds in winning over Alice. How long is his obsession going to last after that and can that be converted to real love? As for Elsa, I can possibly see them get together* for a while, but I don't see a lasting romantic relationship for them.

I imagine such a relationship would be in the form of them signing a mutual benefit contract for taking care of each other's sexual needs. The contract would stipulate that they are expected to have sex N times a week with possibility of negotiation for more. Then it would go on to specify in detail the specific acts that are expected and allowed.

 

[jufot]

I imagine such a relationship would be in the form of them signing a mutual benefit contract for taking care of each other's sexual needs. The contract would stipulate that they are expected to have sex N times a week with possibility of negotiation for more. Then it would go on to specify in detail the specific acts that are expected and allowed.

I would imagine the opposite. They could become a corporate power couple and get married as a business arrangement. Nothing romantic or sexual. They'd both be free to pursue their own interests in that regard. Elsa would be the brains of the operation and Edward the smooth operator executing her plans. The marriage would protect them with spousal privilege

 

[Hildegardt]

I've often played around with the idea of Ed as an unreliable narrator as well. In fact, we've had at least one conversation before on this exact topic. Edward's mental health struggles and the Fight Club nods make it easy to think that we're not getting the full, true picture. However, I don't really see much foreshadowing going on to suggest that what we're seeing is not really what's happening or that some other version of Edward is running around and having completely different interactions with people.

How would Edward being unreliable come into play, unless the game suddenly switches to an omniscient narrator at a later point? His perceived reality is the in-game reality from the players' perspective and, as you said, there isn't any foreshadowing or similar to suggest otherwise.
I think Ed being unreliable or not doesn't really matter.

I don't want to think Lucy is a gold digger either and that storyline has never made much sense to me, but on their very first date Edward assumes that she is though the player can graciously prevent him from acting on this "insight." What is there to point to that really contradicts his version of events? Mostly I think I just want to hold on to the idea that Lucy is a good and caring person because that was my initial impression of her and I never quite accepted her sudden personality change.

At first I thought Lucy finally started digging this update, but at the end of that scene it was just made out to be Lucy's way to signal being Ed's exclusive girlfriend. It's not that I want her to be a gold digger, but I feel like she's in a frustrating limbo between show and tell, where sqwl could come out at any point and say that our personal perception of her doesn't matter, because he always intended her to be different.


To me the whole blackmail thing with no chance to fail was pretty boring honestly. We hope for a redemption for Edward, but he might not even get a journey, if the whole plot can be summed up as "Elsa is rich and connected and has a plan". I think the fact that only Elsa has any impact on the story and only through obscured ways could become a problem. Emma could easily end up getting the Lucy treatment: Two different paths and only as much screentime as the player wants, so she ultimately doesn't matter.
It's ironic how Ed is such an unpleasant character to play as (evidently from comments in the game thread), but he's still an overt power fantasy that can't help himself from winning. No matter how miserable he is, there's still the cute colleague with an obvious crush that the game seems to have forgotten about, there's Lucy and now Emma. There's Matt trying to bully him very unsuccessfully. And Ed doesn't really do anything to deserve anything besides nondescript busywork that culminates in simple blackmail in the end.
My problem with CC has always been that I feel like I'm supposed to loathe Edward, but the story rewards his loathsome behaviour. The update didn't really help. And I still think the "a" and "l" variables are suspicious.

 

[jufot]

How would Edward being unreliable come into play, unless the game suddenly switches to an omniscient narrator at a later point?

That's easy. If he gets "better", he could look at past events from a new perspective and realize he misread the situation a lot in toxic / misogynistic ways. Think of all the loathsome inner dialogue with Ego and imagine how different those scenes could play out without that voice.

 

[Hildegardt]

That's easy. If he gets "better", he could look at past events from a new perspective and realize he misread the situation a lot in toxic / misogynistic ways. Think of all the loathsome inner dialogue with Ego and imagine how different those scenes could play out without that voice.

I guess the problem is how do you confront him about his supposed faults, while he sits in his shiny new COO office? If he misread the situations that got him there, then the actual reality of those situations didn't have an impact on him.
Maybe Ed is a strong believer in manifestation as a self-help program. But if reality doesn't matter, than it's impossible to tell what's real and what's manifested from the perspective of the players.

 

[jufot]

I guess the problem is how do you confront him about his supposed faults, while he sits in his shiny new COO office?

I don't see those two things happening at the same time. After all, power at EO is "toxic Edward"s goal:

Elsa is helping Edward, but only with his stated goals (rising in EO and getting Alice), not necessarily with what's best for him. I can see his story splitting into two major branches. One where he breaks free from Elsa's influence and chooses a happier, less cynical life for himself, and one where he embraces her and rises to corporate success (and to Alice's arms) under Elsa's thumb.

 

[bacienvu88]

I would imagine the opposite. They could become a corporate power couple and get married as a business arrangement. Nothing romantic or sexual. They'd both be free to pursue their own interests in that regard. Elsa would be the brains of the operation and Edward the smooth operator executing her plans. The marriage would protect them with spousal privilege

I can accept that as well. In fact, I really miss good power couple stories here.

And I still think the "a" and "l" variables are suspicious.

Me too. Then there is the fact that apart from how to handle Lucy, all variables have had minimal impact on the story so far. We got the biggest in this update with how you get either Tommy route or Emma route depending if you lent Tommy the scooter. But I guess there will be more story impact in the coming updates.

 

[realjitter]

As for Elsa, I can possibly see them get together* for a while, but I don't see a lasting romantic relationship for them.

I think you guys give this game too much credit.. I really want to jump on board and ride with all of you, but I can't . Of course i'd like to be proven wrong, I really do, but..

So here's how I think Elsa + Edward could become a thing in this game =). It's way more simplistic and straight forward...

1 - The Jufot route! (the AVN affront) - They don't become a thing and E+E will remain friends, at least their variation of it, until the end with Elsa being the one who tries to keep his head straight. Maybe she'll be some kind of a matchmaker when it comes to Alice. They banter until the end credits roll and that's it. Well, pitchforks will be raised of course =)
2 - The "love" route - Of course always an option in an AVN whether you like it or not. They spend alot of time together and, at the end of the day, their bantering and back and forth could lead to more, plain and simple. Keep in mind that their bantering is their thing and already a connection. It doesn't matter how clear headed Elsa's counters are. What they have is theirs and she certainly can't talk with anyone else like she does with Edward. It can be a recipe for chemistry between them. Does it feel like that as of now?, no... But you can never exclude the love route, no matter how it happens.
3 - The power couple route - They continue doing their thing together and get "high on power". They achieve whatever they're going to achieve within the story and, somehow, realize that they're a "good team" or whatever. (Cringe anyone?)
4 - The femdom route - You have to at least mention it since we're talking AVN's here. "Strong", confident woman equal often times femdom in AVN logic. But, I don't see that route at all. I think Elsa is way above any femdom. She strikes me as someone who can't be bothered with something like that. ( her loss ). If anything I can see misdirected "maledom" in this game.
5 - The weird route - E+E get it on as a one off or something. Like a weird lewd scene that ends up being passionate, but ultimately leads to nothing. Not necessarily fanservice, but.. I don't even know what... Well, it's called a weird route for a reason!.
6 - The horrible route - Or the deconstruction of Elsa . Elsa, cough, cough, gets cough, cough jealous of Edward and all the attention he gets in the future and acts because of it... I know, totally out of character in every way possible and also basically the death sentence for the game, but we've seen worse in AVN's. At least I have..
7 - Variations/combinations of the routes above.
8 - Other/smarter routes than the ones I came up with.

I persoanlly wouldn't mind the "Jufot route", but you have to look at the game from an outside perspective and then you'll realize how unlikely such a route actually is. That would be a real story first decision, but it can't happen in my mind. So i'd say it'll be either the "love" or the "weird" route. Of course not like all the nonsense i've wrote, but some variation of it...

 

[jufot]

The "love" route - Of course always an option in an AVN whether you like it or not. [...] I persoanlly wouldn't mind the "Jufot route", but you have to look at the game from an outside perspective and then you'll realize how unlikely such a route actually is. That would be a real story first decision, but it can't happen in my mind.

I'm not sure if the usual expectations should apply here. sqwl's decisions certainly don't fit the pattern of a developer who wants to make a popular AVN. He releases one, maybe two updates a year. He only charges patrons per update. He doesn't have a Discord, posts infrequently on Patreon, and even less on F95. His only game doesn't have any of the crowd pleaser tags (harem, incest etc) and he refuses to compromise plot for porn, despite incessant demand.

Given all that, it wouldn't surprise me at all if we end up with an unorthodox ending

 

[vneotpolemus]

I, for one, welcome our villain protagonist duo.

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