Recommending Story-first games

[Raife]

Oh, this one has a particularly rich discussion history on this thread. The overall impression is... less than flattering.

I had fun playing RfL... but I share the consensus that the MC is a loathsome character... which is a big problem. Plus, the latest update left me completely cold... apart from the (fun to play) racing scenes.

Still holding out a (tiny) forlorn hope that for the ex-wife route... that's the only path to really interesting character development. But, fundamentally, it's not a story-first game.

It _is_ exceptionally well produced. But, if you want a well produced story-first game there are plenty of options these days... like, say, Impious Monk's game (on jufot's list). Or any of Tlaero's collaborations with Mortze. No need to compromise.

Which brings me to a question: which story-first games are you most enjoying right now... particularly games that are still in progress? For me, it's a short list:

• Leaving DNA;
• Corporate Culture;
• Pecker PI (primarily for the slapstick);
• Hillside (although it is on semi-pause, due to Blue's issues); and
• The Bite.

I haven't played Gemini, yet, although it's at the top of my list. Anything else new that I'm missing?

 

[Dessolos]

I had fun playing RfL... but I share the consensus that the MC is a loathsome character... which is a big problem. Plus, the latest update left me completely cold... apart from the (fun to play) racing scenes.

Still holding out a (tiny) forlorn hope that for the ex-wife route... that's the only path to really interesting character development. But, fundamentally, it's not a story-first game.

It _is_ exceptionally well produced. But, if you want a well produced story-first game there are plenty of options these days... like, say, Impious Monk's game (on jufot's list). Or any of Tlaero's collaborations with Mortze. No need to compromise.

Which brings me to a question: which story-first games are you most enjoying right now... particularly games that are still in progress? For me, it's a short list:

• Leaving DNA;
• Corporate Culture;
• Pecker PI (primarily for the slapstick);
• Hillside (although it is on semi-pause, due to Blue's issues); and
• The Bite.

I haven't played Gemini, yet, although it's at the top of my list. Anything new that I'm missing?

For me I personally still consider Race of life a story first game even if this thread does not. But I can see it going the way of being like Seven realms where it's equally story first and lewd focused at the same time. Especially after that lewd scene with Maggie in the update, it came out of no where and felt like something you would see in a porno.

As for what story first game I enjoy the most. Well I only played 3 of 5 of those. Hillside is easily my favorite game you listed because of the characters but I consider Leaving DNA the best AVN ive played when it comes to story, so I guess they are tied. But for a game you didn't list i'm really looking forward to the Neverwhere Tales the most.

 

[FatGiant]

For me I personally still consider Race of life a story first game even if this thread does not. But I can see it going the way of being like Seven realms where it's equally story first and lewd focused at the same time. Especially after that lewd scene with Maggie in the update, it came out of no where and felt like something you would see in a porno.

As for what story first game I enjoy the most. Well I only played 3 of 5 of those. Hillside is easily my favorite game because of the characters but I consider Leaving DNA the best AVN ive played when it comes to story, so I guess they are tied.

I hesitated for quite a while to try Race of Life. I'm glad I didn't fall for the hype. I have zero interest in playing a jerk/evil MC. I'll leave that for those that like that.

Proceeding to delete the unopened Zip files of it and removing my watch of it.

Ooof... this one was too close for comfort.

Peace

 

[Raife]

As for what story first game I enjoy the most. Well I only played 3 of 5 of those. Hillside is easily my favorite game you listed because of the characters but I consider Leaving DNA the best AVN ive played when it comes to story, so I guess they are tied. But for a game you didn't list i'm really looking forward to the Neverwhere Tales the most.

I think the common thread connecting these 5 games is their lack of cliched writing... which leads to genuine surprises in each episode. That, and the integrity with which the devs treat their characters and their choices.

It certainly makes me look forward to each new update.

 

[Dessolos]

I hesitated for quite a while to try Race of Life. I'm glad I didn't fall for the hype. I have zero interest in playing a jerk/evil MC. I'll leave that for those that like that.

Proceeding to delete the unopened Zip files of it and removing my watch of it.

Ooof... this one was too close for comfort.

Peace

eh I don't consider him a jerk or evil MC unless you play that way. Unless his past is enough for you to label him as such for the entire game. There is only maybe 2-3 times I would say he is being an asshole / jerk that isn't warranted without player input but most of the time it's on the player if he acts that way. At least that's how I see it.

 

[FatGiant]

eh I don't consider him a jerk or evil MC unless you play that way. Unless his past is enough for you to label him as such for the entire game. There is only maybe 2-3 times I would say he is being an asshole / jerk that isn't warranted without player input but most of the time it's on the player if he acts that way. At least that's how I see it.

Too late, and, honestly, not convincing at all. What that tells me is the same as FiN. And if even without player input the MC behaves that way, that tells you EXACTLY how the game was thought has and for what type of public. Since you feel comfortable with FiN, it is no wonder you would feel OK with that too. I simply prefer to stay away. #NoJudgement

Peace

 

[yossa999]

I had fun playing RfL... but I share the consensus that the MC is a loathsome character... which is a big problem. Plus, the latest update left me completely cold... apart from the (fun to play) racing scenes.

Still holding out a (tiny) forlorn hope that for the ex-wife route... that's the only path to really interesting character development. But, fundamentally, it's not a story-first game.

It _is_ exceptionally well produced. But, if you want a well produced story-first game there are plenty of options these days... like, say, Impious Monk's game (on jufot's list). Or any of Tlaero's collaborations with Mortze. No need to compromise.

Which brings me to a question: which story-first games are you most enjoying right now... particularly games that are still in progress? For me, it's a short list:

• Leaving DNA;
• Corporate Culture;
• Pecker PI (primarily for the slapstick);
• Hillside (although it is on semi-pause, due to Blue's issues); and
• The Bite.

I haven't played Gemini, yet, although it's at the top of my list. Anything else new that I'm missing?

Nice list, can't question any of the items. However, if Hillside is on the list, I see no reason not to include Isabella: Chasing Shadows. And Zero End would be a nice addition to The Bite. And I don't even mention Summer's Gone, no list is needed for it, it's a must by default

 

[Dessolos]

Too late, and, honestly, not convincing at all. What that tells me is the same as FiN. And if even without player input the MC behaves that way, that tells you EXACTLY how the game was thought has and for what type of public. Since you feel comfortable with FiN, it is no wonder you would feel OK with that too. I simply prefer to stay away. #NoJudgement

Peace

Wasn't trying to convince you I know once your mind is made up it's made up there is no second chances. Just wanted to share my thoughts as I felt it was a bit unfair to label that MC as a jerk MC in present time his past he 100% was. Tho might be the way I played him why I felt strongly enough to share my thoughts

To be fair I don't care one way or another about any MC in any of these games. I don't connect with them or like or hate them. To me a MC is a tool to get to know the characters and the story. I treat them the same I would as a MC playing any video game if it's playing a dark side , light side playthrough in Star Wars Knight of the Old republic. I don't make choices or play a game based on my personal thoughts or feeling for a MC. But rather what I think is fun or my personal goals for said playthrough or game. Which is why I tend to play every path in most games even character I normally would dislike or have no interest in.

 

[FatGiant]

Wasn't trying to convince you I know once your mind is made up it's made up there is no second chances. Just wanted to share my thoughts as I felt it was a bit unfair to label that MC as a jerk MC in present time his past he 100% was. Tho might be the way I played him why I felt strongly enough to share my thoughts

To be fair I don't care one way or another about any MC in any of these games. I don't connect with them or like or hate them. To me a MC is a tool to get to know the characters and the story. I treat them the same I would as a MC playing any video game if it's playing a dark side , light side playthrough in Star Wars Knight of the Old republic. I don't make choices or play a game based on my personal thoughts or feeling for a MC. But rather what I think is fun or my personal goals for said playthrough or game. Which is why I tend to play every path in most games even character I normally would dislike or have no interest in.

I don't.

I role-play them as if I was the one making those decisions. I am unable to play like you do. Either I am involved, or I am out. I am built like that.

Playing an asshole, will NEVER work for me. Not that I am a perfectly nice person, I am not. But, doing it on purpose? Nope, it will never happen.

You know, the funny thing is, that I seldom replay these type of games, but when I do, I go in search of the same experience I had the first time. So, I go for the same type of path.

I've left games middle play, if suddenly a choice shows up where I can't really keep MY path going. Even GH, was almost deleted forever. Because no matter how much I try, I can't put a Slave collar on a black woman. Just typing it makes me feel nauseated. Even My Dorm almost went that way, with the Blackmail and Domination paths. I simply can't make myself do it, not for any story ever.

I am aware that that makes me look weak, I couldn't fucking care less, the opinions of outsiders don't sleep on my pillow, mine does. Playing a game/story where the MC I am riding, behaves in such a way, makes me feel dirtied, corrupted, devalued, violated even. So, I'll keep being myself, playing this how I can, and you guys do whatever you want.

Peace

 

[Dessolos]

I don't.

I role-play them as if I was the one making those decisions. I am unable to play like you do. Either I am involved, or I am out. I am built like that.

Playing an asshole, will NEVER work for me. Not that I am a perfectly nice person, I am not. But, doing it on purpose? Nope, it will never happen.

You know, the funny thing is, that I seldom replay these type of games, but when I do, I go in search of the same experience I had the first time. So, I go for the same type of path.

I've left games middle play, if suddenly a choice shows up where I can't really keep MY path going. Even GH, was almost deleted forever. Because no matter how much I try, I can't put a Slave collar on a black woman. Just typing it makes me feel nauseated. Even My Dorm almost went that way, with the Blackmail and Domination paths. I simply can't make myself do it, not for any story ever.

I am aware that that makes me look weak, I couldn't fucking care less, the opinions of outsiders don't sleep on my pillow, mine does. Playing a game/story where the MC I am riding, behaves in such a way, makes me feel dirtied, corrupted, devalued, violated even. So, I'll keep being myself, playing this how I can, and you guys do whatever you want.

Peace

fair enough I think honestly playing video games all my life for fun and enjoyment made me not care so much about MC's as I never really been able to immerse or roleplay myself in a game much before. Even in RPG / CRPG's id start out roleplaying and break character because of story or stats haha. I even tried to a few times with AVN's but just never works out cause im honestly a real passive person in real life that wouldn't hurt a fly. So alot of things a MC would do just wouldn't work for me.

Wish I could play like you do as it would make understanding some dislikes for a MC or a game here or there easier for me. As most of the time when I see someone say they dont like X because of a MC it hard for me to understand unless the MC does something that is obviously bad since I can't immerse myself enough to understand why said MC sucks lol. Probably the reason I never really dropped a game unless I find the characters boring or something makes me uncomfortable.

also sorry for going a bit off topic with this convo sometimes when I get into a conversation I get going without thinking about said thread haha.

 

[Raife]

Nice list, can't question any of the items. However, if Hillside is on the list, I see no reason not to include Isabella: Chasing Shadows. And Zero End would be a nice addition to The Bite. And I don't even mention Summer's Gone, no list is needed for it, it's a must by default

Agree 100% on Isabella... it's a good game. I don't wait for each episode with the same level of anticipation that I do with the others on my list... but I admire Badtimes, and have been a supporter from the beginning. That isn't going to change.

_Zero End_ was frustrating for me. I _should_ like the game... but just could not get into it, at all. The principal problem was that I couldn't wrap my mind about the MC and his cynical unflappability at such a young age. It short circuited my brain.

 

[Canto Forte]

What young age? Some Edge Lord MC is fascinated with the dark magiks and is practicing rituals that scare his girlfriend Marie who is constantly tonig hium down from turning into Darth Vader every time he tries another unexplored spell out of his dark tooms.

MC got to do the ceremony of ash and parted ways from Marie - so Marie ended up with a rudderless life, after forgetting everything that made her enjoy life - which turns out to be her desperate attempts to keep MC human and off his nihilistic tendencies of going full Mordor/Dor Mamu/Red Skull in his study of the occult.

This good looking sun flower fell in the enthralls of the cult that runs the high school, certainly the primary scope of that sham is feeding unbsuspecting virgins to the many foes living there.
As we can immagine the torment young girls without any powers would go through with demons and vampires lurking around looking for a snack or more: many students must not be demons like Ray, neither a Winchester cousin like the vampire hunter and certainly not Castiel - a literal vessel for angelic power that Brandon is - these other guy and girls have actual entities living inside them, that are in the know of the massive occult that is going on in that university.
All the while, MC just wanted a 9 to 5 job away from the crazy and Marie was just lost after performing the ceremony of ash:
- while MC was contempt to have put the whole occult chapter behind him, Marie was left in the entrails of having done magic but having lost it along with her connection to Caleb.

This is the very real conundrum of couples living on the high of their activity together - once the whole hobbyist magik experiments were ceased with the powerful ceremony of ash, the effect was wildly different - while Caleb experienced katarsis and totally decided to lay off the heavy magik use, trying and failing to integrate into mundane jobs and a forgetful life, Marie felt like having lost a big part of her life alongside Caleb - so she felt she was endebted to herself to toil and get her life back - by getting MC back into her life.

The principal problem was that I couldn't wrap my mind about the MC and his cynical unflappability at such a young age. It short circuited my brain.

Maverick starts at the end of his rope, with a higher up ready adn able to end his career - when he gets called back into the Top Gun Program - kind of makes sense - a washed up hardcore machismo nut who likes daring situations being relegated to kindergarten - playing drill pilot to up and coming assholes.

Caleb starts in a dead end job finding stage of his life where he literally has nothing better than going on the adventure of having room adn board at a private university.

Makes sense on so many levels - protags can grow without being literal dragon riders or drunken bastards of powerful kings.

Personally, I'd love to play that sort of MC... but I'd want it to be difficult, even painful, at the beginning. And redemption should be painful to the MC as well.

Impious Monk is flirting with redemption arcs in _Leaving DNA_ -- but I suspect that any such scheme in his game will only involve the MC tangentially. He doesn't want to be too hard on the player... which makes good commercial sense.

Must be fool's luck.
Either way, I was lucky enough to have no problems with this MC (except for a little annoyance at the MC's unfounded overconfidence).

 

[Raife]

Playing an asshole, will NEVER work for me. Not that I am a perfectly nice person, I am not. But, doing it on purpose? Nope, it will never happen.

I respect your choice, absolutely; people role-play games in very different ways. Some players can separate themselves completely from the MC, others can't. Most of us, I suspect, are somewhere in between.

Here's a hypothetical question for you, though: could you play a really serious redemption arc, where the MC starts out _really_ bad... but gradually begins to see himself (or herself) for what they are... and change?

Personally, I'd love to play that sort of MC... but I'd want it to be difficult, even painful, at the beginning. And redemption should be painful for the MC as well.

Impious Monk is flirting with redemption arcs in _Leaving DNA_ -- but I suspect that any such scheme in his game will only involve the MC tangentially. He doesn't want to be too hard on the player... which makes good commercial sense.

 

[yossa999]

_Zero End_ was frustrating for me. I _should_ like the game... but just could not get into it, at all. The principal problem was that I couldn't wrap my mind about the MC and his cynical unflappability at such a young age. It short circuited my brain.

I have the same vibes, the dude acts cold and self-confident, creates around himself the aura of a superhero or a wizard who has everything under control. But every time he underestimates his opponents and finds himself almost helpless in front of them. But there is always someone or something that pulls his ass out of trouble. Must be fool's luck.
Either way, I was lucky enough to have no problems with this MC (except for a little annoyance at the MC's unfounded overconfidence). You know, this must be the result of many years of playing Summer's Gone MC

 

[FatGiant]

I respect your choice, absolutely; people role-play games in very different ways. Some players can separate themselves completely from the MC, others can't. Most of us, I suspect, are somewhere in between.

Here's a hypothetical question for you, though: could you play a really serious redemption arc, where the MC starts out _really_ bad... but gradually begins to see himself (or herself) for what they are... and change?

Personally, I'd love to play that sort of MC... but I'd want it to be difficult, even painful, at the beginning. And redemption should be painful to the MC as well.

Impious Monk is flirting with redemption arcs in _Leaving DNA_ -- but I suspect that any such scheme in his game will only involve the MC tangentially. He doesn't want to be too hard on the player... which makes good commercial sense.

I would. 100%. I am a sucker for redemption arcs. BUT. And this is a BIG one. I would have to know beforehand.

Why? Because otherwise I would not play it.

Difficult or easy, hurtful or not, doesn't matter. I would gobble it up. Second, Third and more chances are my JAM. You never truly learned if you never failed before.

Anyone that did it right at the first attempt, learned nothing, just got fucking lucky.

Peace

 

[realjitter]

I have 2 AVN's in my AVN folder. The first is "A Summers End" because that's just a keeper in my book. Well, and the second one is an old version of "One day at a time". I've never played that one tbh because everytime I look it up on the forum to remind me I go like "Ah, right, it's the one with 100000 renders already.. . I don't know, I guess i'm just too intimidated by the amount of content to check it out .

Other than that, my 3 overall, still ongoing, favourites are. 1. Simple beginnings 2. Gimme a sun 3. Isabella - dark paths

 

[FatGiant]

I have 2 AVN's in my AVN folder. The first is "A Summers End" because that's just a keeper in my book. Well, and the second one is an old version of "One day at a time". I've never played that one tbh because everytime I look it up on the forum to remind me I go like "Ah, right, it's the one with 100000 renders already.. . I don't know, I guess i'm just too intimidated by the amount of content to check it out .

Other than that, my 3 overall, still ongoing, favourites are. 1. Simple beginnings 2. Gimme a sun 3. Isabella - dark paths

Let me tell you about One Day At A Time.

Yes, it is a time commitment. The kind of, that I actually seek for and am rarely ever given. The story, the characters, their relationships, will grow in you. It is like a very long book that while intimidating to start, it will be impossible to put down.

The good thing is, you can play it as the name says: "One Day At A Time". With small bites, day by day, it will become a daily treat without overwhelming you.

Go for it.

Peace

 

[Dessolos]

Let me tell you about One Day At A Time.

Yes, it is a time commitment. The kind of, that I actually seek for and am rarely ever given. The story, the characters, their relationships, will grow in you. It is like a very long book that while intimidating to start, it will be impossible to put down.

The good thing is, you can play it as the name says: "One Day At A Time". With small bites, day by day, it will become a daily treat without overwhelming you.

Go for it.

Peace

Well that just sold me to put it higher on my playlist. I knew I wanted to try it but wasn't sure when cause the concept of the story seemed interesting but the preview banner / renders didn't really pique my interest compared to some game I still want to try out. That and I have a decent size backlog of games with updates to play.

 

[365 others]

Let me tell you about One Day At A Time.

Yes, it is a time commitment. The kind of, that I actually seek for and am rarely ever given. The story, the characters, their relationships, will grow in you. It is like a very long book that while intimidating to start, it will be impossible to put down.

The good thing is, you can play it as the name says: "One Day At A Time". With small bites, day by day, it will become a daily treat without overwhelming you.

Go for it.

Peace

I played that one for a while. What made me stop was that eventually even tho I was following the "good guy" path for the MC to recover from his addiction, somewhere I made a bad decision (or something like that) and ended up affecting one of the LIs in a way I didn't want to go.

I tried to go back and check what decisions I made, but it was sooooo long that ended up dropping it entirely, as I wasn't excited to start over a good chunk of the story and decisions just to follow the path I wanted.

Probably I should have gone the way you say (small bites day by day), because it got tiring for my liking.

Tho I have to admit that the dev put a lot of thought in that game, and it is really well-developed.

 

[MelanColic]

Question:
What do you guys think of the following expression?
"Gameplay is the death of story."

In a VN there're usually branching story-lines made active by the player's choices. These branches can have a softer or a harder impact on the overall plot. But, what I found peculiar about this gameplay mechanic is that, it can indirectly affect elements of the story that makes it enjoyable.
I am of the opinion that everything can be a good story as long as it's execution instills those feelings of curiosity, tension and release. But also, the fact that it is permanent. If you can go back in time and change a path, so that a specific story beat doesn't happen, then everything kind of becomes... meaningless.

I personally find the "every road leads to Rome" approach to branching the most enjoyable, as well as no branching at all, or very soft branches (flavors of a given situation).

What is your opinion on this particular subject?