Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

You have multiple options through the game to peek in on people/grope them in their sleep. That's the stuff I was referring to. The one that sticks out in my mind the most was when you could do it to Lucy when she was hungover, but I definitely remember that sort of situation coming up multiple times.

Ah, right. I never pick those options so I have no memory of it

 

[noping123]

Ah, right. I never pick those options so I have no memory of it

I wouldn't in any sort of actual "canon" playthrough, but I generally like to see where different options lead, and it was disappointing that those options never did anything except "You see someone naked/grope them"

 

[cynicallmeback]

You have multiple options through the game to peek in on people/grope them in their sleep. That's the stuff I was referring to. The one that sticks out in my mind the most was when you could do it to Lucy when she was hungover, but I definitely remember that sort of situation coming up multiple times.

Jeez, I've never heard or seen anyone mention this content in this game. Makes me wonder how many games have rapey content like that, but it's either not documented in the tags or for some reason nobody mentions it in the forum.

 

[noping123]

I actually liked that! Nadia knows what she wants - to be fucked by a good-looking guy who'll leave her alone. She is not interested in small talk or any lovey-dovey stuff. She is sexually aggressive and is attracted to such aggression, which is why the dick pick works for her.

I'm totally ok with it working FOR HER, and her overall attitude and approach. What I was less ok with was the fact that, the MC had no real way to know this (they had what, 30 seconds worth of interaction, and that was it? If he got that from those 30s, that's one hell of a read), and his first instinct is "Hey lets send her a picture of my dick". I'm generally of the opinion that "Unless you know for a fact the person is receptive to it, that is NEVER a good option", so having it be the "correct" choice bugged me a bit, because 99 times out of 100 it should be the wrong choice - on the one hand yea, this was the 1 time out of 100 where it was the right play, so fair enough, I just generally prefer stuff like that NOT be rewarded, which is probably my personal bias shining through.

 

[jufot]

I'm totally ok with it working FOR HER, and her overall attitude and approach. What I was less ok with was the fact that, the MC had no real way to know this (they had what, 30 seconds worth of interaction, and that was it? If he got that from those 30s, that's one hell of a read), and his first instinct is "Hey lets send her a picture of my dick". I'm generally of the opinion that "Unless you know for a fact the person is receptive to it, that is NEVER a good option", so having it be the "correct" choice bugged me a bit, because 99 times out of 100 it should be the wrong choice - on the one hand yea, this was the 1 time out of 100 where it was the right play, so fair enough, I just generally prefer stuff like that NOT be rewarded, which is probably my personal bias shining through.

I've only really considered it from her end, and it does make sense from that POV, but you're right. Either MC figured her out completely in those 30 seconds, or he was wrong to send a dick pick to a stranger. I agree that this behaviour shouldn't be rewarded in general, though.

 

[noping123]

I've only really considered it from her end, and it does make sense from that POV, but you're right. Either MC figured her out completely in those 30 seconds, or he was wrong to send a dick pick to a stranger. I agree that this behaviour shouldn't be rewarded in general, though.

So basically we agree, we were just looking at the same event from different perspectives - and yea, from her POV it's perfectly fine, welcome even. From his I think it's a bit sketchier though.


I was beginning to worry about you......

you did recently recommend a college game after all.

 

[Raife]

So basically we agree, we were just looking at the same event from different perspectives - and yea, from her POV it's perfectly fine, welcome even. From his I think it's a bit sketchier though.

I agree with all of your criticisms of the game, noping... there are quite a few serious flaws and cliched bits. Some of the MC's options in the 'creeper' category are weird; that dick pick moment was a good example. It seemed gross and out of character for the MC.

But you also touched on what the game _really_ gets right: the LIs have quite layered personalities, so even if they appear to represent particular 'types,' some of them can surprise you with hidden hinterlands or feelings. Likewise, some of the LIs who seem appealing at first glance become a bit less so over time as you learn more about them. That's both true to life and vanishingly rare in games like this. I thought that was really interesting and well done.

_The Entrepreneur_ has some flawed, corny, or creepy sections... but what it does well, it does so well that it obscures some of the game's problems.

That's why I like to compare the game to _Top Gun: Maverick_ -- a film that I did not want to see and did not expect to like, which features some really cheesy sections, tons of cliches and clunky dialogue. But... it does some things so well that it just works. That's how I see _the Entrepreneur_, particularly in how it handles the main LIs.

 

[Raife]

Glad you enjoyed it! You understood correctly. I'm planning softcore only.

That's a brave, inspired choice, which will earn you all sorts of love on this thread... but be prepared for trolling elsewhere on this hellsite.

 

[Raife]

A while ago on this thread, we've discussed the inherent difficulties of having incest in a story-first game. The mere idea of it tends to imply porn logic, but I think Worlaix could really be the first dev to create realistic incest. A lot of this depends on Anasteya's personality. Her amoral and indifferent nature removes most obstacles that such a relationship would face IRL.

She's amoral and indifferent -- but that's because she privileges survival above all else. Power is also only interesting to her as a means of survival. Fascinating character... questions about her background and history abound! But I don't find her remotely appealing as a potential LI for my MC.

Trisha on the other hand... pushes all of my buttons: strong woman (who does not need the MC), ambiguous motivations, apparently amoral or slightly evil... but who could be influenced in a positive direction, sexually adept and apparently (but probably not actually) promiscuous. Yes, please! (Way, way back in the day, Viconia was the LI I pursued in BG2, you won't be surprised to hear.)

 

[Ezykeyal]

That's a brave, inspired choice, which will earn you all sorts of love on this thread... but be prepared for trolling elsewhere on this hellsite.

It's been trolled a fair bit in the main thread. I was pleasantly suprised at the amount of support though, which was unexpected!

 

[jufot]

She's amoral and indifferent -- but that's because she privileges survival above all else. Power is also only interesting to her as a means of survival. Fascinating character... questions about her background and history abound! But I don't find her remotely appealing as a potential LI for my MC.

Agreed. She is fascinating, but not as an LI.

Trisha on the other hand... pushes all of my buttons: strong woman (who does not need the MC), ambiguous motivations, apparently amoral or slightly evil... but who could be influenced in a positive direction, sexually adept and apparently (but probably not actually) promiscuous. Yes, please! (Way, way back in the day, Viconia was the LI I pursued in BG2, you won't be surprised to hear.)

I like Trisha too! I keep thinking she is evil because of that evil look in her eyes, but Worlaix keeps denying it

It's been trolled a fair bit in the main thread. I was pleasantly suprised at the amount of support though, which was unexpected!

I'd urge you to stay resolute, despite the trolling. It (unfortunately) takes a brave VN developer to de-emphasize sex scenes to this extent, but I do think it'll be worth it in the end

 

[Vasin]

Catching up on recommendations I played Entrepreneur and A&O.

Entrepreneur is probably the first game where I didn't find a single LI personally attractive yet all are strongly written. Despite not being interested in any LIs I was still very impressed with how lifelike they all turned out to be. In stark contrast with Bare Witness that I played recently, where LI characterisation and pacing falls apart the moment you're not trying chasing the entire harem at once.

It's also has few of those rare scenes where I felt like the characters are let down by the AVN format being static images and text, not being able to convey poignancy of the moment. I didn't regret not turning off the music either, track selection was on point in some places

A&O deserves mad props for going against the grain in terms of it's LI design. Visually I found it to be quite distinct from other AVNs and was surprised to read in the thread that it uses default DAZ assets in places, none of the characters or places feel like I've seen them before like that park that is in every. single. AVN. Probably the only drawback for me so far is the MC. He always wanted to learn MMA yet never even worked out before starting college? Sure I didn't expect him to win against a trained fighter like that other guy, but going down like a sack of potatoes does not inspire confidence in his chances. It also felt a little bit like a forced set up for subsequent trope reversal and MC being saved by Nat. Also not a fan of 2/3(?) LIs being more advanced students/teachers, I prefer power dynamics that are more horizontal, but hey, it could make for interesting plot developments in the future.

That brings me to a game that I found from a signature in one of the posters in A&O thread - Summer Heat. Base premise is pretty cliche - young guy with his best friend and his sister join a summer art camp to get academic credit, nothing special really. The game however is bereft of porny cliches (it's 0.3 and has no lewd scenes in it yet), subverts some of those and even cleverly pokes fun at a player (there is a funny dialogue exchange that you will blunder in, but if you try rolling it back it will be gone as if it never happened. It made me laugh so hard the first time I saw it) The dialogue feels very authentic, and short of almost mandatory douchy male friend I found all the characters reasonably realistic. Game being very short (about 30-40m intro) there isn't much of a main plot yet, but there are hints at things not being exactly as straightforward as they may seem. Don't think it warrants including in the list, but is well worth checking out, especially being this short.

Visually the game is amazing, and it has one of the best phone submenus I've seen. Devs claim it's their first game, but I don't believe it, I mean looking at all these alleged "first games" like A long Journey, A&O, Entrepreneur, Elvensang and now SH, I bet there are dozens of failed game husks littering those devs basements. They can't be that good on the first try.

 

[jufot]

Probably the only drawback for me so far is the MC. He always wanted to learn MMA yet never even worked out before starting college? Sure I didn't expect him to win against a trained fighter like that other guy, but going down like a sack of potatoes does not inspire confidence in his chances.

Hmm, I don't know. I went to university knowing absolutely nothing about my chosen major. Is that not the norm in the US?

Also not a fan of 2/3(?) LIs being more advanced students/teachers, I prefer power dynamics that are more horizontal, but hey, it could make for interesting plot developments in the future.

I like misaligned power dynamics, but not if they favour the MC because then it's just an ordinary male power fantasy and that's just boring

I mean looking at all these alleged "first games" like A long Journey, A&O, Entrepreneur, Elvensang and now SH, I bet there are dozens of failed game husks littering those devs basements. They can't be that good on the first try.

Indeed, they must have lots of unpublished prototypes buried somewhere. I refuse to believe one can be that good in their first creative output.

 

[Raife]

It's been trolled a fair bit in the main thread. I was pleasantly suprised at the amount of support though, which was unexpected!

Feel free to call for support on this thread if you're getting abused or horribly dogpiled. We've done it before... there aren't enough of us to take on the whole site, but we're happy to come help restore a degree of comity. If you continue to craft a story-first game, you will have our support.

 

[Raife]

I like misaligned power dynamics, but not if they favour the MC because then it's just an ordinary male power fantasy and that's just boring

See, again, Trisha from Elvensang. I like LIs who don't need the MC, are a bit dangerous/powerful and can be won over... but with difficulty and never completely.

 

[jufot]

I just finished playing the demo of Your Story. I'm a sucker for hand-drawn VNs and the gorgeous artwork on the game page grabbed my attention.

The game is... meh. It's a fairly generic fantasy adventure, but with a twist: You are not the MC. You are MC's disembodied, invisible adviser. It's a mechanic that effectively gives you full control of her actions, but with additional dialogue between the two of you. I like the idea more than its execution, but it's an enjoyable twist nonetheless.

This is not a porn game. There will be sex, it seems, but more in the tradition of old school VNs. Subdued, understated. More romantic than erotic. It's a sprite-based, hand drawn otome game, with the occasional CG.

Apparently, it has had a successful

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two years ago and is

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. Something to keep an eye on.

 

[Vasin]

Hmm, I don't know. I went to university knowing absolutely nothing about my chosen major. Is that not the norm in the US?

It's not even about knowing anything about MMA, it's more like if the MC wanted to do MMA so much beforehand why don't we see any evidence of him actually engaging in activities that would help him be better at it? I've known people who just coasted through getting a degree but they never talked about "oh, I always wanted to do X, I just never bothered to do anything about it before applying for a degree".

I also like stories where MC is an underdog, not particularly gifted for the activity they've chosen, but through determination and will they power through it and become good, but I'm not getting that vibe either. I'm just seeing "oh yeah, I'll go try do that thing and then if it doesn't work out then screw it". It's all very lukewarm. Not saying it's bad or even unrealistic, it's jut my impression.

I like misaligned power dynamics, but not if they favour the MC because then it's just an ordinary male power fantasy and that's just boring

It also borderlines on taking advantage of someone.

 

[jufot]

if the MC wanted to do MMA so much beforehand why don't we see any evidence of him actually engaging in activities that would help him be better at it?

I mean, we only see ~10 minutes of his pre-college life and that's basically saying goodbye to his friend and his grandma. Maybe he did do some amateur training, who knows. Perhaps it'll be clarified once he starts training with one of the LIs.

I'm just seeing "oh yeah, I'll go try do that thing and then if it doesn't work out then screw it". It's all very lukewarm. Not saying it's bad or even unrealistic, it's jut my impression.

Haha, that's exactly how I started university, a long time ago. Perhaps that's why it doesn't bother me

It also borderlines on taking advantage of someone.

Sorry, who is taking advantage of who?

 

[Ezykeyal]

Catching up on recommendations I played Entrepreneur and A&O.

Entrepreneur is probably the first game where I didn't find a single LI personally attractive yet all are strongly written. Despite not being interested in any LIs I was still very impressed with how lifelike they all turned out to be. In stark contrast with Bare Witness that I played recently, where LI characterisation and pacing falls apart the moment you're not trying chasing the entire harem at once.

It's also has few of those rare scenes where I felt like the characters are let down by the AVN format being static images and text, not being able to convey poignancy of the moment. I didn't regret not turning off the music either, track selection was on point in some places

A&O deserves mad props for going against the grain in terms of it's LI design. Visually I found it to be quite distinct from other AVNs and was surprised to read in the thread that it uses default DAZ assets in places, none of the characters or places feel like I've seen them before like that park that is in every. single. AVN. Probably the only drawback for me so far is the MC. He always wanted to learn MMA yet never even worked out before starting college? Sure I didn't expect him to win against a trained fighter like that other guy, but going down like a sack of potatoes does not inspire confidence in his chances. It also felt a little bit like a forced set up for subsequent trope reversal and MC being saved by Nat. Also not a fan of 2/3(?) LIs being more advanced students/teachers, I prefer power dynamics that are more horizontal, but hey, it could make for interesting plot developments in the future.

That brings me to a game that I found from a signature in one of the posters in A&O thread - Summer Heat. Base premise is pretty cliche - young guy with his best friend and his sister join a summer art camp to get academic credit, nothing special really. The game however is bereft of porny cliches (it's 0.3 and has no lewd scenes in it yet), subverts some of those and even cleverly pokes fun at a player (there is a funny dialogue exchange that you will blunder in, but if you try rolling it back it will be gone as if it never happened. It made me laugh so hard the first time I saw it) The dialogue feels very authentic, and short of almost mandatory douchy male friend I found all the characters reasonably realistic. Game being very short (about 30-40m intro) there isn't much of a main plot yet, but there are hints at things not being exactly as straightforward as they may seem. Don't think it warrants including in the list, but is well worth checking out, especially being this short.

Visually the game is amazing, and it has one of the best phone submenus I've seen. Devs claim it's their first game, but I don't believe it, I mean looking at all these alleged "first games" like A long Journey, A&O, Entrepreneur, Elvensang and now SH, I bet there are dozens of failed game husks littering those devs basements. They can't be that good on the first try.

Thanks so much for taking the time to play through AO.
It's a fair point you make about the MC and his experience, one which I could potentially emphesize a bit more to make sense of? In one of the earliest conversations the MC has with his friend Nyah, he mentions and is aware of the fact he may not do well at all, and as a fall back can potentially shift his focus on other sports related subjects at the academy.

I've been in game development for about 20 years with a focus on art. This is the reason you are seeing things you've not seen before, as they are custom built. I've only discovered how enjoyable the VN format is, late last year and decided to do my own in January. I've never written a story, properly learned a programming language, or even solo developed an entire project, so I only have a few months of experience with that. Since I'm art focussed, it's easier for me to do that but I still have to call a stop to it at some point, as I have to do the rest as well. Characters still come from DAZ, but I try to customize them well enough so they fit my story and that they don't look like everything else out there.

In short, definitely my first solo project!

 

[Vasin]

I mean, we only see ~10 minutes of his pre-college life and that's basically saying goodbye to his friend and his grandma. Maybe he did do some amateur training, who knows. Perhaps it'll be clarified once he starts training with one of the LIs.

That's fair, I feel like the intro could give us a better perspective on who the MC is and what their life has been so far. Entrepreneur does that quite well, I think. On the other hand, I'm glad we're not saddled with some kind of useless "training" where we get to choose what "attribute" to level that in the end will affect 2 sentences of text and one picture.

Sorry, who is taking advantage of who?

I meant misaligned power dynamics in favour of the MC. It always makes me a little uneasy when that kind of relationship is rewarded even if it's completely consensual.

Characters still come from DAZ, but I try to customize them well enough so they fit my story and that they don't look like everything else out there.

In short, definitely my first solo project!

They look really really good, And very distinct. Stellar job, truly. The only true complaint I have is that Nat rides a sportbike. Like, why is it not a cruiser? Come on