Recommending Story-first games

[Pixillin']

I just tried Sort of Justice and figured it needed a mention here (with link, so that it ends up in the

You must be registered to see the links

).
It's a hard-boiled gangster story, and while the sex isn't avoidable, there are refreshingly little of it so far. I would go as a far as to say there is a record high story-to-sex ratio.
What it does have is some very good storytelling, both dramatically and visually.

What it doesn't have:

• School setting
• A bitchy older sister and a quirky little dito
• People perving on ladies in showers
• A Stairway to Heaven

The only thing that worries me is that there are quite a lot of loose ends/characters with agendas, meaning that the creator will have to work hard to tie it all together. I sincerely hope that this is one of the few AVNs where the author has a clear picture of the full story before starting to release chapters...

I looked at this one, and it looked ok but Kinetic is a deal breaker for me automatically.

 

[Dessolos]

I looked at this one, and it looked ok but Kinetic is a deal breaker for me automatically.

I think the dev said awhile ago it started off as a Kinetic game but then after the first update gonna add in choices for parts that isn't part of the main story like turning down girls or not. If I recall correctly I swore I read something like that. So if that is true id call it more of semi Kinetic but not sure if that would be enough for you if you dislike KN.

( Pretty sure there was a choice about the sex scene too last time I played)

 

[Pixillin']

I think the dev said awhile ago it started off as a Kinetic game but then after the first update gonna add in choices for parts that isn't part of the main story like turning down girls or not. If I recall correctly I swore I read something like that. So if that is true id call it more of semi Kinetic but not sure if that would be enough for you if you dislike KN.

( Pretty sure there was a choice about the sex scene too last time I played)

Maybe when it's further along I'll have a look but generally I lie choices and paths. If I wanted a novel, I'd read a novel - if there's no gamification, then it's not for me. (Real porn is my other automatic no - any kind of NTR I have to read it and see what the dev means, and how it's implemented.)

 

[Dessolos]

Maybe when it's further along I'll have a look but generally I lie choices and paths. If I wanted a novel, I'd read a novel - if there's no gamification, then it's not for me. (Real porn is my other automatic no - any kind of NTR I have to read it and see what the dev means, and how it's implemented.)

yeah didn't think it would matter to you just figure id let you know incase it does change your mind at all. ( and so others know it's not planned to be fully Kinetic).

 

[kotte]

Maybe when it's further along I'll have a look but generally I lie choices and paths. If I wanted a novel, I'd read a novel - if there's no gamification, then it's not for me. (Real porn is my other automatic no - any kind of NTR I have to read it and see what the dev means, and how it's implemented.)

Yeah, there are a number of choices, but you don't get a feeling that they have a lot of impact.
On the other hand, to me, "story-first" is really story first. I very seldom feel that the story gains anything from having game elements.

 

[Tlaero]

I very seldom feel that the story gains anything from having game elements.

I agree with you, and I'll put it more strongly. Player choices are destructive to the story.

If you have branching player choices, you end up needing to tell multiple stories, which results in either shorter stories or longer development times. One single branch cuts the story depth in half. 6 choices cut it to 1/8th. Etc.

That doesn't invalidate anything Pixillin' said. There's nothing wrong with preferring branching VNs. But the tradeoff is real.

Tlaero

 

[jamdan]

I think the ideal is an overarching story that stays more or less the same regardless of choice, with a few LI specific scenes along the way.

A lot of people care about the "illusion of choice" more than actually having real branching though.

Say you have a choice to pick up a gun. Then a scene later in the game when the bad guys attack your base. If you picked up the gun, you try to attack them yet you still get thrown out a window and have to escape. If you didn't pick up the gun, you still get thrown out a window and have to escape. At the end of the scene, the gun, if you had it, is missing/broken.

So there is a "choice" that appears meaningful on the surface, yet essentially the same thing happens regardless, and the gun being broken essentially resets the choice as if it didn't even happen so there is no future dependencies to deal with.

 

[Pixillin']

I think a lot of it depends on the talent of the writer. I mean, I just don't like kinetic novels full stop and I'm usually deeply unimpressed with the "illusion of choice". If I discover that the choices I've been making have no impact, I will probably drop the game. However, I don't mind having things go very wrong because I made bad choices. There may be only one "good" ending however, that doesn't mean that there is only one possible. And in a few cases I've even gotten to an ending that wasn't the good/cannon ending but it was a good ending for me - I liked the story better that way. As for Lis and sex scenes, I just generally think that anything involving sex should be optional - as close to 100% of the time as possible. I understand that sometimes sex *has to* happen in a story, for the sake of the story but that is rarely the case in AVNs. Usually the story kinda gets paused so some sex can happen.

 

[jamdan]

I think a lot of it depends on the talent of the writer. I mean, I just don't like kinetic novels full stop and I'm usually deeply unimpressed with the "illusion of choice". If I discover that the choices I've been making have no impact, I will probably drop the game. However, I don't mind having things go very wrong because I made bad choices. There may be only one "good" ending however, that doesn't mean that there is only one possible. And in a few cases I've even gotten to an ending that wasn't the good/cannon ending but it was a good ending for me - I liked the story better that way. As for Lis and sex scenes, I just generally think that anything involving sex should be optional - as close to 100% of the time as possible. I understand that sometimes sex *has to* happen in a story, for the sake of the story but that is rarely the case in AVNs. Usually the story kinda gets paused so some sex can happen.

It's not only the writing though. The holdup is the art required for branching games, especially 3D rendered ones.

If each route needs 100 renders, and you have 10 routes, that's 1000 renders right there.

 

[kotte]

As for Lis and sex scenes, I just generally think that anything involving sex should be optional - as close to 100% of the time as possible. I understand that sometimes sex *has to* happen in a story, for the sake of the story but that is rarely the case in AVNs. Usually the story kinda gets paused so some sex can happen.

Going back to Sort of Justice, I got the feeling that the dev would have been just as happy without putting the sex scenes in there. And I can respect that, in order to "keep the shareholders happy", a dev might feel the need to add some juicyness.
The story worked well without it though, which I think is necessary in that case.

 

[Sidartha_6]

I just tried Sort of Justice and figured it needed a mention here (with link, so that it ends up in the

You must be registered to see the links

).
It's a hard-boiled gangster story, and while the sex isn't avoidable, there are refreshingly little of it so far. I would go as a far as to say there is a record high story-to-sex ratio.
What it does have is some very good storytelling, both dramatically and visually.

What it doesn't have:

• School setting
• A bitchy older sister and a quirky little dito
• People perving on ladies in showers
• A Stairway to Heaven

The only thing that worries me is that there are quite a lot of loose ends/characters with agendas, meaning that the creator will have to work hard to tie it all together. I sincerely hope that this is one of the few AVNs where the author has a clear picture of the full story before starting to release chapters...

Regardless, it's such an exciting story and I found it easy to get attached to the characters. I usually dislike stories that glorify 'lone wolf' heroes or gritty survivalism, but this one is an exception. I honestly don't care about the sex scenes, different choices, or whatever. It's been a while since a story made me this impatient for a sequel. Thanks for the tip, it really made my day.

 

[Pixillin']

It's not only the writing though. The holdup is the art required for branching games, especially 3D rendered ones.

If each route needs 100 renders, and you have 10 routes, that's 1000 renders right there.

10 would be a lot. There’s not a ton of those out there. I can’t think of any from solo devs but 2-5 isn’t unusual. And I’m not saying it’s easy but the extra work pays off (for me at least.)

 

[Vasin]

So I played Tides of Succession, game that I was surprised to find only scarcely mentioned here before.

If I had to describe this in a movie critic fashion, it's Captain Blood mixed with Dune and a dash of Ocean's Eleven. I definitely think the writing is very story-first and to quote the author

It just happens to be that I tend to enjoy AVNs with vanilla kinks and a focus on romance the most.

The FAQ mentions there won't be a harem ending so as long as they don't pull PoP and have surprise harem pop out of left field this is very much up my alley.

In my opinion it very much deserves inclusion on the list.

Now to things I feel hold it back from being a great game. The production value of the game is rather... slapdash, but I wouldn't hold it against it. Not everyone can make Strangers on Paper or Beach Glass level looking games.

My main gripes are with the writing - it's in this weird place where there's some exposition about the world, and the author seemingly tries to go down "show, not tell" path, except they don't show either, and the world ends up feeling almost barren. There's supposedly like a court intrigue angle to the story, yet entire king's court so far consists of whopping 3 characters and that's including king and his daughter (one of LIs). Same thing extends to writing style - it's very direct and to the point, which feels nice for an action kind of story, but leaves some characters feeling like barely more than plot devices. I think it could benefit from some atmospheric padding.

The world itself, in some details, seems rather implausible. Like one entire LI (elven-looking explorer girl) so far is entirely redundant to the story and appears to be there only because the author wanted elves in their story and just threw them in loosely connecting them with the main world, while seemingly being unable to decide whether there are cultural contacts between these different races or not.

This is all very minor quibbling though, and overall I really enjoyed it and would recommend everyone to check it out.

 

[Pixillin']

So I played Tides of Succession, game that I was surprised to find only scarcely mentioned here before.

If I had to describe this in a movie critic fashion, it's Captain Blood mixed with Dune and a dash of Ocean's Eleven. I definitely think the writing is very story-first and to quote the author The FAQ mentions there won't be a harem ending so as long as they don't pull PoP and have surprise harem pop out of left field this is very much up my alley.

In my opinion it very much deserves inclusion on the list.

Now to things I feel hold it back from being a great game. The production value of the game is rather... slapdash, but I wouldn't hold it against it. Not everyone can make Strangers on Paper or Beach Glass level looking games.

My main gripes are with the writing - it's in this weird place where there's some exposition about the world, and the author seemingly tries to go down "show, not tell" path, except they don't show either, and the world ends up feeling almost barren. There's supposedly like a court intrigue angle to the story, yet entire king's court so far consists of whopping 3 characters and that's including king and his daughter (one of LIs). Same thing extends to writing style - it's very direct and to the point, which feels nice for an action kind of story, but leaves some characters feeling like barely more than plot devices. I think it could benefit from some atmospheric padding.

The world itself, in some details, seems rather implausible. Like one entire LI (elven-looking explorer girl) so far is entirely redundant to the story and appears to be there only because the author wanted elves in their story and just threw them in loosely connecting them with the main world, while seemingly being unable to decide whether there are cultural contacts between these different races or not.

This is all very minor quibbling though, and overall I really enjoyed it and would recommend everyone to check it out.

It's a good game. It tends to take a long, long time between updates but it's very well written. There are many moving parts - lots of characters with their own agendas, personalities and alliances. And the Dev is very upfront that it is about the story, and the characters, not about the sex. On many of the paths there is no sex yet, or if there is it's once and it's soft-core (not visible genitalia). Also - when you see how many paths there are, you'll understand why it updates slowly. Fortunately the Dev caught on after a few updates and reduced a dozen major branches down to four but even with that - I just did two playthroughs, with the same Li and slightly different choices and I've seen (apparently) 20% of the available content. So it's a game you'll be able to replay a lot and find new things every time.

 

[Finuee]

So I played Tides of Succession, game that I was surprised to find only scarcely mentioned here before.

If I had to describe this in a movie critic fashion, it's Captain Blood mixed with Dune and a dash of Ocean's Eleven. I definitely think the writing is very story-first and to quote the author The FAQ mentions there won't be a harem ending so as long as they don't pull PoP and have surprise harem pop out of left field this is very much up my alley.

In my opinion it very much deserves inclusion on the list.

Now to things I feel hold it back from being a great game. The production value of the game is rather... slapdash, but I wouldn't hold it against it. Not everyone can make Strangers on Paper or Beach Glass level looking games.

My main gripes are with the writing - it's in this weird place where there's some exposition about the world, and the author seemingly tries to go down "show, not tell" path, except they don't show either, and the world ends up feeling almost barren. There's supposedly like a court intrigue angle to the story, yet entire king's court so far consists of whopping 3 characters and that's including king and his daughter (one of LIs). Same thing extends to writing style - it's very direct and to the point, which feels nice for an action kind of story, but leaves some characters feeling like barely more than plot devices. I think it could benefit from some atmospheric padding.

The world itself, in some details, seems rather implausible. Like one entire LI (elven-looking explorer girl) so far is entirely redundant to the story and appears to be there only because the author wanted elves in their story and just threw them in loosely connecting them with the main world, while seemingly being unable to decide whether there are cultural contacts between these different races or not.

This is all very minor quibbling though, and overall I really enjoyed it and would recommend everyone to check it out.

It's a good game. It tends to take a long, long time between updates but it's very well written. There are many moving parts - lots of characters with their own agendas, personalities and alliances. And the Dev is very upfront that it is about the story, and the characters, not about the sex. On many of the paths there is no sex yet, or if there is it's once and it's soft-core (not visible genitalia). Also - when you see how many paths there are, you'll understand why it updates slowly. Fortunately the Dev caught on after a few updates and reduced a dozen major branches down to four but even with that - I just did two playthroughs, with the same Li and slightly different choices and I've seen (apparently) 20% of the available content. So it's a game you'll be able to replay a lot and find new things every time.

Does sounds interesting. I heard the title here and there, but it was never really in my radar. Thanks for the through recommendation!

 

[jufot]

I'm back after a month away, and The Missing Part was first on my catch-up list.

The highlight for me, by a mile, is the Lisa section with the 'negotiation.' We finally get to see some of your separate character and plot lines cross, and it's just a pleasure to watch. Truly Dickensian in the best way. Funny and a bit nuts, but not in a remotely OTT way.

Agreed. I already loved Charlotte from her scene at the bridge in the last chapter, but she is truly exceptional this time around. First, in that meeting:

So. What protects me and my investment from this gentleman, who seemed so confident a few moments ago, collapsing once again because of the burden of his life, and then cowering for years like a little child?

This is a brutal - almost sadistic - thing to say to MC, knowing exactly what has happened to him, but it's also the right move for a potential business partner, with millions hanging in the balance. I first thought this scene was a bit over-the-top, but the follow-up with MC's mum put that into context. That was a nice twist!

I didn't expect to like any LI more than I did Sarah, but Lisa was truly wonderful. There is a bold, confident woman, carefully hidden behind the quiet charity girl veneer. When/if you tell her about also seeing Sarah, she takes it wonderfully well:

There is competition? Okay. I don't need more than one real date to make you forget about her.

More to the point, this is likely my favourite frame from this chapter:



As for Hailey, I'm not on her path as my earlier reasons stand. I like her more as a platonic protégé anyway.

But, man, your three chapters show how a proper story first effort is done. There are very, very few devs that have managed anything in the same class as your game. If this is your first effort at an AVN...all I can say is, 'wow.'

^ That

 

[jPk vns]

As for Hailey, I'm not on her path as my earlier reasons stand. I like her more as a platonic protégé anyway.

But she gets a non-lewd path, just like the others...

 

[jufot]

But she gets a non-lewd path, just like the others...

I meant I'm not on her LI path then. I don't want anything romantic and/or sexual with her.

 

[Rhinoisliquidjuice448]

Linda the best from the missing part

 

[Dessolos]

Linda the best from the missing part

Hailey for me im not really into Linda at all. Tho I mostly only like the Main girls in this one of the few games the side girls aren't for me for one reason or another.