Recommending Strategy/tactical games (including non-ero) with minimal RNG in combat

[Pretentious Goblin]

You know how in XCOM you can flank an enemy and set up a shot perfectly only for RNGsus to say "nope", turning your 95% shot into a miss? You know how in the earlier Civilization games a spearman could sometimes defeat a tank? Well, I think this kind of design is bullshit, and I'm looking for turn-based and real-time pausable tactical games that have more deterministic basic combat mechanics (at least hitting and doing damage). There are at least two ways of doing this:

Hits always connect barring any status effect like blindness;
Or there are so many small rolls being made that it all mostly evens out over the course of a battle (e.g. the Hearts of Iron games).
You can also do it like the typical JRPG or the newer Civilization games, where attacks normally always hit and RNG accounts for only a small part of the damage.

Examples I'm aware of:

Hard West
Into the Breach
Civilization 5 and 6, Beyond Earth
Phantom Doctrine (iirc)
Hearts of Iron games
Stellaris
Thea 2 (I think? It's been a while)
Battlestar Galactica Deadlock (again, not sure)
Warhammer 40K: Gladius - Relics of War
Order of Battle
Invisible, Inc (iirc)
Crying Suns

 

[Tyktamsyl]

I'm assuming you're looking for PC games, but if you're not, then Fire Emblem: Three Houses I believe has minimal RNG. Usually strategies will work and won't be thwarted by luck. It's been a while, so I don't know to what extent it was, but I do remember that if I wanted to do something it would generally work. I will say though, it isn't that complex. There are complexities to it, but not that much. Also has romance as a bonus.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I'm assuming you're looking for PC games, but if you're not, then Fire Emblem: Three Houses I believe has minimal RNG. Usually strategies will work and won't be thwarted by luck. It's been a while, so I don't know to what extent it was, but I do remember that if I wanted to do something it would generally work. I will say though, it isn't that complex. There are complexities to it, but not that much. Also has romance as a bonus.

Thanks, I used to play strategy-RPGs a lot. But I'm only looking for PC games right now.

 

[Sheik100]

Druidstone is basically Into the Breach minus the Roguelike stuff and an RPG story added.

 

[justpassingbyreally]

Heroes of Might & Magic (and King's Bounty) if you're fine with the damage range (you could go around casting mass bless/curse to counter that, and for Heroes 3 there's ERA core mod that has the damage ranges translated to the min/max amount of enemy stack killed, so you can easily see when an attack is a guaranteed kill without doing the math yourself). Only a few units have some hit chance added, and it rarely comes into play (such as dwarves having a % chance of negating a spell), and positioning on the battlefield and baiting the AI are what matters the most.

Advance Wars, Banner Saga, Druidstone, Fights in Tight Spaces, Frozen Synapse, Hellenica, Legends of Eisenwald (and its prequel, Discord Times), Portals of Phereon, Rift Wizard, Tactical Breach Wizards, Telepath Tactics (and Together in Battle by the same developer), Tenderfoot Tactics, Urtuk, Warhammer 40k: Mechanicus

Age of Wonders 3 moved away from hit chances in their quest for streamlining it (and by extension may apply to Planetfall, but I haven't played that one). Maybe also that gameboy version of LotR: the Third Age. And I recall Valkyria Chronicles letting you overcome anything with player skill. Eador: Genesis might have had randomness on world map with no attack misses in combat. Supposedly Feda, Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor and Shining Force, but I don't remember if that's correct.

+1 for "IIRC Phantom Doctrine"

Games that I'm unfamiliar with claiming no RNG/determinism:

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,

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,

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,

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,

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Pathway has 100% chance of hitting an enemy out of cover; can't say how often it comes into use.

It's surprisingly not uncommon for games to go with a pre-rolled hit table that determines the success of an action no matter the displayed hit chance (for example, at some point it's hit-hit-miss-miss-miss-hit, and any of your five squad members will succeed with the first two actions, but the remaining three members will miss, or you could not act with them and leave those misses for the enemy's turn - or the hit/miss for action #1 will be different for each character, and it would be about figuring out which characters will hit if you move them now, which will hit if you move them second, and so on), buuuuuut from the player's point of view that's only deterministic if you engage in save-scumming (or luck upon a game that makes it a game mechanic, like

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's PSP version).

RTSes tend to be deterministic (units always hitting and dealing fixed damage reduced by fixed armor stats) and you'd be fine grabbing any at random, but to fully benefit from that you'll spend a lot of time micromanaging (real time stealth games like Commandos or the more recent Shadow Tactics are more forgiving in that regard). And tower defence games. And maybe some phase-based/WeGo games, as the tactical part in them is meant to be predicting where the opponents will move. And the puzzles masquerading as tactical games made with Flash but I don't remember any titles.

Battle for Wesnoth is on the extreme end of the randomness even with its multiple attacks, but I remember there being addons with guaranteed hit chances (which may be not available in the current version of the game; each major release has its own addon database and some never get updated).


And for a bit of preaching, RNG in combat isn't about subjecting you to dodge master 5% hit chance enemies or a streak of 95% misses, but about determining which course of action is the most likely to succeed (the safest) and using available tools/mechanics to make it work in a way that luck doesn't affect it. Any unfairness of the rolls is a perception issue from how human brains are wired (and is why most of the time the devs fudge rolls and stack the odds in favor of the player) and the end result of a battle should be the same with both systems (either you plan your tactics with a chain of contingencies to guarantee success, or solve the puzzle of which units to move in what order to win).

 

[kharza]

I have two games that come to mind:
Endless Space 2 - It´s a 4x game really similar to Stellaris. In my opinion combat and empire management-wise it´s better than Stellaris. Lore/storywise it didn´t manage to pull me in though so I´ve only played two campaigns on it. ( But that was like 80-100 hours ) You win/lose battles based completely on ship design and set strategies so no rng there.

King Arthur: Knight´s tale - I haven´t played this one yet, it came out fairly recently. It´s supposed to have xcom-like combat set in the medieval Arthur story. Your melee characters don´t miss at all, and they make up most of your team on each mission. I think you have 1 archer out of a party of 4 or 5, not sure, but archers work xcom-like I´m afraid. Anyway it´s hard to say anything definite since I haven´t played it yet, but it might be worth to check it out for you.

I would also second Heroes of Might and magic and King´s bounty, they are great games.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I have two games that come to mind:
Endless Space 2 - It´s a 4x game really similar to Stellaris. In my opinion combat and empire management-wise it´s better than Stellaris. Lore/storywise it didn´t manage to pull me in though so I´ve only played two campaigns on it. ( But that was like 80-100 hours ) You win/lose battles based completely on ship design and set strategies so no rng there.

Yeah? Might want to check it out then. I hated Endless Space's unit design and combat system, it was a game-killer for me with its obtuseness (plus the unfortunately ubiquitous lasers-missiles-guns rock-paper-scissors found in space 4Xs, though Stellaris is guilty of that too). And Endless Legend, from what I saw it shows you a table of possible outcomes with a % to each, so not what I want. Maybe ES2 is different, I'll look at some gameplay of it.

 

[kharza]

Yeah? Might want to check it out then. I hated Endless Space's unit design and combat system, it was a game-killer for me with its obtuseness (plus the unfortunately ubiquitous lasers-missiles-guns rock-paper-scissors found in space 4Xs, though Stellaris is guilty of that too). And Endless Legend, from what I saw it shows you a table of possible outcomes with a % to each, so not what I want. Maybe ES2 is different, I'll look at some gameplay of it.

I´ve tried Endless Legend one, it had too many design choices I didn´t like so I quit it basically only a few hours into the game.

I didn´t play Endless Space 1 so I´m unsure how similar they are, according to the internet Endless Space 2 is only a more polished version of 1 so you might not like it at all. Combat is not as paper/rock/scrissors like as you explained anymore, but it has an issue of Hull plating upgrades being nearly always stronger than shielding upgrades.
If you are looking for a game to bury yourself in for a long time I´d digress that it´s not the best choice, however if you are only looking to play a few fun campaigns it could be a good choice.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

And for a bit of preaching, RNG in combat isn't about subjecting you to dodge master 5% hit chance enemies or a streak of 95% misses, but about determining which course of action is the most likely to succeed (the safest) and using available tools/mechanics to make it work in a way that luck doesn't affect it. Any unfairness of the rolls is a perception issue from how human brains are wired (and is why most of the time the devs fudge rolls and stack the odds in favor of the player) and the end result of a battle should be the same with both systems (either you plan your tactics with a chain of contingencies to guarantee success, or solve the puzzle of which units to move in what order to win).

RNG is another layer of unpredictability, but one that isn't skill-based, part of it is always outside of your control. There are better ways to making the player hedge their bets, e.g. fog of war (which you can counter with more scouting if that fits your situation/playstyle). I dunno, having forced unpredictability that can't be countered by player skill seems to me to run counter to the concept of a skill-based strategy game and is more appropriate for... a casino. Would chess be a timeless classic if on top of everything else players had to roll a d20 every time two pieces met? And I'm not familiar with poker, but don't poker players play many hands to mitigate the effect of luck and make their skill count for more?

Unfortunately, in the context of something like XCOM, a few bad rolls can cripple your whole campaign. Sure, you could plan around those 5% possible miss chances, but who in their right mind enjoys having RPGsus looming over them like that the entire game? Though to be perfectly fair to XCOM, iirc AOE attacks always hit (whether they go on-target is another matter, but it's more bearable).

Heroes of Might & Magic (and King's Bounty) if you're fine with the damage range (you could go around casting mass bless/curse to counter that, and for Heroes 3 there's ERA core mod that has the damage ranges translated to the min/max amount of enemy stack killed, so you can easily see when an attack is a guaranteed kill without doing the math yourself). Only a few units have some hit chance added, and it rarely comes into play (such as dwarves having a % chance of negating a spell), and positioning on the battlefield and baiting the AI are what matters the most.

Advance Wars, Banner Saga, Druidstone, Fights in Tight Spaces, Frozen Synapse, Hellenica, Legends of Eisenwald (and its prequel, Discord Times), Portals of Phereon, Rift Wizard, Tactical Breach Wizards, Telepath Tactics (and Together in Battle by the same developer), Tenderfoot Tactics, Urtuk, Warhammer 40k: Mechanicus

Age of Wonders 3 moved away from hit chances in their quest for streamlining it (and by extension may apply to Planetfall, but I haven't played that one). Maybe also that gameboy version of LotR: the Third Age. And I recall Valkyria Chronicles letting you overcome anything with player skill. Eador: Genesis might have had randomness on world map with no attack misses in combat. Supposedly Feda, Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor and Shining Force, but I don't remember if that's correct.

Games that I'm unfamiliar with claiming no RNG/determinism:

You must be registered to see the links

,

You must be registered to see the links

,

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

,

You must be registered to see the links

,

You must be registered to see the links

Pathway has 100% chance of hitting an enemy out of cover; can't say how often it comes into use.

It's surprisingly not uncommon for games to go with a pre-rolled hit table that determines the success of an action no matter the displayed hit chance (for example, at some point it's hit-hit-miss-miss-miss-hit, and any of your five squad members will succeed with the first two actions, but the remaining three members will miss, or you could not act with them and leave those misses for the enemy's turn - or the hit/miss for action #1 will be different for each character, and it would be about figuring out which characters will hit if you move them now, which will hit if you move them second, and so on), buuuuuut from the player's point of view that's only deterministic if you engage in save-scumming (or luck upon a game that makes it a game mechanic, like

You must be registered to see the links

's PSP version).

RTSes tend to be deterministic (units always hitting and dealing fixed damage reduced by fixed armor stats) and you'd be fine grabbing any at random, but to fully benefit from that you'll spend a lot of time micromanaging (real time stealth games like Commandos or the more recent Shadow Tactics are more forgiving in that regard). And tower defence games. And maybe some phase-based/WeGo games, as the tactical part in them is meant to be predicting where the opponents will move. And the puzzles masquerading as tactical games made with Flash but I don't remember any titles.

Battle for Wesnoth is on the extreme end of the randomness even with its multiple attacks, but I remember there being addons with guaranteed hit chances (which may be not available in the current version of the game; each major release has its own addon database and some never get updated).

Awesome, I'll look into some of these. Yeah, AoW3 isn't on my list because it's still possible for spells to fail, though most will have a weaker alternative effect to soften the blow. Unfortunately Planetfall has hit-chances even for basic attacks.

 

[test011]

Hits always connect barring any status effect like blindness;
Or there are so many small rolls being made that it all mostly evens out over the course of a battle (e.g. the Hearts of Iron games).
You can also do it like the typical JRPG or the newer Civilization games, where attacks normally always hit and RNG accounts for only a small part of the damage.

For the first option (i.e. hits never missing) Id also recommend Phantom Doctrine, its from the same company as Hard West. Wh40k Mechanicus also follows similar formula, there is no CtH, only LoS rules.
Old Xcoms (OpenXcom for eg.) have in interesting hit chance calculation, it might seem like RNG but in fact all shots are simulated in 3d engine and calculated via trajectory.
Jagged Alliance 2 has pretty unique CtH system where instead of % values you see a circle, shoots will fall somewhere within said circle, you can spend Action Points to make the circle smaller, it all depends on the range, guns used, Mercenary skill and how long you've been aiming.

For lesser known games with no CtH i'd recommend "Trials of Fire" with is a pretty nice card/token based strategy with rougelite elements. " The Wind and Wilting Blossom" is also a neat tactics game with no CtH but rougelite elements and gorgeous art style.

 

[Sheik100]

The thing I hated the most in the new XCOM and XCOM 2 was the pod system. Thats the biggest source of RNG and no, scouting options were not fun or interesting to use. The enemy always maximized their movement during the pod activation, further RNG depending on the map. I'm not bringing it up pointlessly, but there is Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children that has pretty minimal RNG. Enemies only get "activation" moves once, I mean the 1st group as far as I can tell. Though I guess that depends if they alert the map. Because that 1st group is smart enough to go fetch reinforcements and call for backup. And getting 100% hit, even 100% crit chance isn't difficult. I've been playing it on hardest and as long as you respect elites its been good. The only real RNG feels like what perks the enemies choose because some perks can hard counter builds. Oh and the luck perk (it randomly gives a buff that always crit or always dodge attack), so watch for enemy buffs because you can pop it on your turn with any attack.

Edit another one is the headshot perk gives random chance for bonus damage (stacks with a crit), but units are immune to headshot in smoke screen. Can also guarantee a headshot on stunned or sleeping targets.

So not "no RNG" but minimal RNG and you can mitigate almost all the RNG from what I've seen.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

The thing I hated the most in XCOM was the pod system. Thats the biggest source of RNG and no, scouting options were not fun or interesting to use. The enemy always maximized their movement during the pod activation, further RNG depending on the map. I'm not bringing it up pointlessly, but there is Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children that has pretty minimal RNG. Enemies only get "activation" moves once, I mean the 1st group as far as I can tell. Though I guess that depends if they alert the map. Because that 1st group is smart enough to go fetch reinforcements and call for backup. And getting 100% hit, even 100% crit chance isn't difficult. I've been playing it on hardest and as long as you respect elites its been good. The only real RNG feels like what perks the enemies choose because some perks can hard counter builds. Oh and the luck perk (it randomly gives a buff that always crit or always dodge attack), so watch for enemy buffs because you can pop it on your turn with any attack.

So not "no RNG" but minimal RNG and you can mitigate almost all the RNG from what I've seen.

Which XCOM game is this?

 

[Sheik100]

Oh I guess I should have specified, the new one and XCOM 2. The classic ones were before my time.

Edit: Though I will reiterate Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children is the recommendation. Because I know I tend to skim myself.

 

[abaXX]

TROUBLESHOOTER Abandoned Children (an XCOM with more story), Gears Tactics (XCOM without the building phase), Phoenix Point Year One Edition (developed by the first XCOM 's father) and Battletech (XCOM with Mech)
There's also XCOM Chimera squad (I don't remember a 100% hit that became a miss shot)
If you like heart of iron, I suggest Crusader Kings II
Check also Shadowrun Returns (it's like Phantom Doctrine ) and wastland 2 (there's also the 3 but I never played it)

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

TROUBLESHOOTER Abandoned Children (an XCOM with more story), Gears Tactics (XCOM without the building phase), Phoenix Point Year One Edition (developed by the first XCOM 's father) and Battletech (XCOM with Mech)
There's also XCOM Chimera squad (I don't remember a 100% hit that became a miss shot)
If you like heart of iron, I suggest Crusader Kings II
Check also Shadowrun Returns (it's like Phantom Doctrine ) and wastland 2 (there's also the 3 but I never played it)

This is the second rec for that Troubleshooter game, might check it out then. In XCOM, if it's feasible to actually get 100% hit chance, that makes it more appealing, so maybe I'll get that too. I absolutely loathe CK2's combat system because of the tactics, which somehow combine RNG with rock-paper-scissors. But the others all look like good suggestions, thanks.

 

[justpassingbyreally]

Disagreeing with Jagged Alliance 2 and Shadowrun Returns:

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_

For making X-COM's (the old one with a dash) soldiers more resistant and being more in spirit of this site,

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replaces squishy humans with exhibitionist supermutants. The comments about the recent versions of the mod appear to mention something about hard-to-destroy ninja bases that make the world map layer unpleasant so I'd look for a version before that for familiarizing yourself with the mod.

_

Regarding chess, a bit of a hesitant recommendation for Gorky 17 (or Odium if you're from the US), since I remember it having low hit chances in the beginning, but other than that it feeling quite chess-like (both in how your and your enemies' weapons behaved and all combat encounters being primarily a puzzle to solve). Several weapons I think were even guaranteed to hit (the cooldown ones? or maybe the melee), and if not, there are enough stun weapons to buy yourself a new turn.

 

[test011]

Wow i didnt expect to run into turn based tactics aficionado in here. I especially not one that played Gorky 17.
While your explanation of JA2 and 1.13 are correct i still think they are in line with OP request for no RNG heavy tactic/strategy games. There are so many options to mitigate randomness in both vanilla JA2 and 1.13 that i think it easily fulfils the OP request.

Now that you also mention X-piratez mod for OpenXcom, while i dont play the mod myself i heard people complaining about ninja bases too. From what i understand they act as a sort of alien bases from vanilla but they also spread around and eventually get updated/spawn more mission, ive heard they appear pretty early game too.

And lastly speaking about Gorky17 its quite a peculiar game, superb soundtrack, interesting story with some plottwists and battles that can be quite puzzle like. Iirc melee and aoe weapons (eg. flamethrower) had 100% accuracy always. The game relies more on you discovering weaknesses and resistances of your enemy rather than pure tactics. I'd recommend it for atmosphere and soundtrack alone.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Bump

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I found Phoenix Point, looks like a suitable enough replacement to XCOM for me. Instead of a hit% dice roll it has dispersion within a circle, and instead of single shot, soldiers fire bursts of multiple rounds depending on the weapon. Game has middling reviews, but the demo seemed solid to me. I might pick this up on sale.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Bump, looking for almost anything new on GOG.