RPGM Succubus Covenant Generation One: The Cursed Forest [Sidestory v9] [Olympus]

Femdom Enjoyer · Jul 30, 2023

dregatar said:
The images of the maps you attached are from the dungeons and I don't expect variety in them, however, the map of the world zones were diverse and even had some exploration along the way. The last maps he uploaded on discord were the world maps for the 4 succubi before the Dutchess, which should be intriguing and filled with some challenges before fighting the bosses at least.

I get what you're saying, and agree that the upcoming maps are boring. I just think he's better at "nature" maps than he is at maps that are built by someone or something. Some of the towns are decent, but most maps that are man-made (or made by something else) are excessively symmetrical and boxy, and not just the dungeons. Regardless, I agree the maps are kinda disappointing, but I also place a lot of value on them.

dregatar said:
My main point is not that he's milking the patreons, I'll even drop that idea, however there's no doubt he's gotten lazy or burned out along the way. The best evidence I can give is ch3 development. He announced that Kain had some medical issues and couldn't draw anymore, however instead of using this time to develop the chapter and use placeholders instead of the art, so he could replace them at the moment Kain came back, he decided to sit on his ass and do absolutely nothing. Atop of it all, he released a "demo" version of ch3, since he realised the time gap from the last chapter's release was too big and people started to lose interest. I'm just venting my frustrations since I invested 300$+ in this project in the first 12 months, hoping for improvements from chapter to chapter even if there were issues along the way. Sadly, the trend seems to be the opposite.

Yeah I can understand your frustration if you were a high-tier backer. Honestly, I don't think that he provides enough benefit or content to justify subscribing big atm, nor has he for a while. But I disagree about the quality of content not improving. I started during chapter 2. And chapter 3 saw a huge improvement as far as gameplay was concerned. He spent a long time redoing the combat on the previous fights, and adding new content to the game. Chapter 4 saw improvements to the writing as well. I wouldn't want him constantly iterating on older content though, so it's fine he hasn't gone back and spent more time redoing the systems. As far as sitting on his ass, idk man, I can't say how hard he works or not, but he released Warlock Saga Ch. 1 in that time.

Honestly I preferred Kain's art, but Kain got injured, then stepped down from the project or something. (Idk what went on there, he said he was not doing lewd art anymore, but still does it?) It seems to me like Zion got blindsided by Kain getting injured, then stepping down, then having to strip all of IND3X's animations, spending time to hire new artists, getting caught up on art, only for the next artist to get injured. I think he is responsible for some of the delays, and lacks some game development and project management skills that would get the ball rolling faster, but I genuinely think he's trying.

I do also think he's learning from some of his mistakes, and trying to do better. Best example of that? His artist/art bottleneck which caused so many delays? He's resolved to make sure that isn't going to be an issue anymore, and hired like 5+ artists to work on the game with the patron money, and has art for multiple chapters of the next game ready to go. That to me is what shows the most dedication. He's investing massively in the art, and while he has some weaknesses as a game dev, as someone who pays attention in the discord, I do really think he's trying.

Sorry for the wallpost lmao

blufalcon · Jul 31, 2023

I find it kind of funny and vindicating that people are complaining now. A few years ago I brought up some criticism and was dogpiled on by the dev and a couple of his dickriders. Huge plot pacing issues and lack of depth to the combat. The main storyline is "just ok" and side quests are extremely empty. They introduced like 30 characters and less than a handful of them have any personality at all. There's a lot of lore but its presented in such a tedious way that it takes away from the experience. Not to mention the main drawing point of the game for me were the succubus designs which, in my opinion, have gotten worse with the change of artists. I pledged for chapter 3 and played that and then figured that the most glaring issues were probably going to persist forever.

LingMLBBB · Jul 31, 2023

blufalcon said:
I find it kind of funny and vindicating that people are complaining now. A few years ago I brought up some criticism and was dogpiled on by the dev and a couple of his dickriders. Huge plot pacing issues and lack of depth to the combat. The main storyline is "just ok" and side quests are extremely empty. They introduced like 30 characters and less than a handful of them have any personality at all. There's a lot of lore but its presented in such a tedious way that it takes away from the experience. Not to mention the main drawing point of the game for me were the succubus designs which, in my opinion, have gotten worse with the change of artists. I pledged for chapter 3 and played that and then figured that the most glaring issues were probably going to persist forever.

Yes also the animation. It is not even qualified as real animation like drawing lot of frames for frames per second like succubus academia.
Cutting a single succubus image like Body parts (head,butts) are cut out from main body and made them move in same pattern. That is the easiest and lowest level animation.
but still zion complain like it cost lot of time which is pretty dumb move he knew people addicted to game and nobody will complain that much

LingMLBBB · Jul 31, 2023

also zion tried to move different unique drain effects for each clans and moving effect on sex scene.
Lazy Zion really love searching new ways to make his already easy work easy.
But thanks to pateron nuke like comments those effects will comeback
lazy zion surrendered XD

Succubus Hunter · Jul 31, 2023

Karl Speidel said:
Zion is going to make Bo wei and Koda look like amateurs compared to the milking tactic he is about to drop,turns out HE was the succubus draining others of money all along!

Oh trust me, NOBODY could make Boda look like amateurs when it comes to delays.

But... Mistress Koda as a money sucking succubus is something that begs to be made into fanart (And shared to the ToT Patreon).

FrostFire88 · Jul 31, 2023

blufalcon said:
I find it kind of funny and vindicating that people are complaining now. A few years ago I brought up some criticism and was dogpiled on by the dev and a couple of his dickriders. Huge plot pacing issues and lack of depth to the combat. The main storyline is "just ok" and side quests are extremely empty. They introduced like 30 characters and less than a handful of them have any personality at all. There's a lot of lore but its presented in such a tedious way that it takes away from the experience. Not to mention the main drawing point of the game for me were the succubus designs which, in my opinion, have gotten worse with the change of artists. I pledged for chapter 3 and played that and then figured that the most glaring issues were probably going to persist forever.

I guess I count myself fortunate that I love the new artist. Dancer Succubus is my personal favorite in the entire game. That said I think you echoed my biggest issue with the game, which is the pacing.

I can appreciate Zion loves the world he created and wants to world build and develop it's lore, but it's just too much imo. The gameplay/story cycle of Map -> Story section -> Map -> Story section -> Map -> Story section, really wears on me. Especially since the story sections are so long, even when you're holding down the skip button to speed up the dialogue.

Succubus Covenant is NOT a game you can speed run, mainly for this reason. With Chapter 5 around the corner, it's been recommended to start a fresh game when it releases, just to make extra sure you don't run into game breaking bugs. But no goddamn way am I doing that. It will literally take 10+ hours to start from the beginning and catch up to Chapter 5. The game desperately has needed a Skip Cutscene feature for a long time now and it's never been implemented.

But I am very much looking forward to Chapter 5. It is a bit sad Zion has lost control of managing his project, and much of the thread has turned against him. After Chapter 5, he can right the ship, but he needs to come to terms with the fact that he needs to seriously and significantly pull back on the scale of Succubus Covenant, and turn it into something that is more manageable for the time he has and the pace of development time he has set for the past few years.

FrostFire88 · Aug 1, 2023

From what I read on the Patreon post and on Discord:

Zion separating the Tribe Quest from Chapter 5 for now, so he can release the base game soon. He will release the base version of Chapter 5, and then immediately work on the Tribe Quests afterward.
Tribe Quests include Love Interest quests, Secret Succubus, Shiki Succubus, Bloody Jaw girl, Hammerfall girl.
Zion aims to finish development on Chapter 5 in August, and then submit for playtesting.
As people play Chapter 5, he will be working on the Tribe Quests and wants to finish development on them in 1-2 months.

animefan1111 · Aug 1, 2023

FrostFire88 said:
From what I read on the Patreon post and on Discord:

Zion separating the Tribe Quest from Chapter 5 for now, so he can release the base game soon. He will release the base version of Chapter 5, and then immediately work on the Tribe Quests afterward.

Tribe Quests include Love Interest quests, Secret Succubus, Shiki Succubus, Bloody Jaw girl, Hammerfall girl.

Zion aims to finish development on Chapter 5 in August, and then submit for playtesting.

As people play Chapter 5, he will be working on the Tribe Quests and wants to finish development on them in 1-2 months.

Thanks for the update. So yet another delay and he's not providing the entire chapter. This isn't surprising. It's in his economic interest to take his sweet time with the game since he gets paid by the month. Hopefully, the end product will be worth the wait.

ZAIK0 · Aug 1, 2023

new art on patreon

FrostFire88 · Aug 1, 2023

peepeeboy97 said:
Ok so basically what I’m getting from this is that we actually get new playable content sometime in August

I think September is a safer bet.

bwardyunbip · Aug 1, 2023

ZAIK0 said:
new art on patreon

Love the Duchess.

BaamAlex · Aug 1, 2023

Can someone update the kemono page? I know there is a new Patreon post.

LingMLBBB · Aug 1, 2023

ZAIK0 said:
new art on patreon

She look a bit different compare to kain art. Still fine sexy tho.

FrostFire88 · Aug 1, 2023

Criticism is welcome and obviously has value, but it's clear there are some people here that need to move on. It's very obvious which people are frustrated but ultimately want to enjoy the game, and people who are just looking to antagonize Zion's work and anyone who enjoys it. It's not going to make Zion work any faster.

Johnlie2803 · Aug 1, 2023

TBH not really expecting much on how things goes from the game developments, let's see if they can finish at least this era (I believe finishing chapter 5 is just like a small part of the kastalim tribe arc while there are still 3 major cities with 3 other adalon hunters. Hopefully I can still be here when we can utilize them again, or maybe our MC can be united with his friend whose sent to Asteri)

MikeSamson · Aug 1, 2023

If I remember correctly, the original rd was in June(correct me if I'm wrong). Then, he said July. Now it's august. If I was a paid subscriber, I would be angry. But I know he doesn't work for pirates like me, but instead for his patreons. As long as he is still being paid with no major consequences, why would he change and do things on schedule? If you are a paid subscriber, go ahead, vent, and most importantly, stop supporting him if you don't like being misled/lied to.

colascage · Aug 2, 2023

Dreamer44 said:
The PC is at peak human condition, as strong as he can be. How could he level up and become stronger, then?

Let me get this straight, the dev is willing to make huge sacrifices in the gameplay department for that tiny bit of lore? You can easily make excuses like the hero getting essence from defeating/fucking succubi, which enhances their body or something similar. No wonder this game is such a slog. Only the lore matters, and let's be honest, even the majority of his supporters don't care about it aside from the succubi scenes, skipping right to the gallery.

I don't think this game is a scam. The developer genuinely wants to create, or rather write, a game about evil succubi. But, man, he should just make a VN of it or let someone else design his games.

blufalcon · Aug 2, 2023

To quote my own posts from 2 years ago

blufalcon said:
My only issue with the way the story is presented is that I just do not give a single fuck about all the other hunters that aren't player-controlled and I grow to resent them because their cutscenes actively distract me (the player) from my own mission. The cutscenes that involved rabbit girl and tribe chief girl are fine because she is directly involved with what I am doing as the player-controlled character. When we cut away to other countries to watch someone walk up a hallway and talk to yet another random dude, I just kinda stop caring. I don't sense any danger or tension with those other hunters because all that happens with them is them talking or walking, or there's a scripted, non-interactable fight or stealth sequence involving a bunch of random soldiers, and it happens like 99% of the time we enter a new area. Do they even deal with succubi or are they just there to talk? Why send an Adalon hunter to go talk?

I am getting drawn into this forest, I have prepared myself to clear this forest that is filled with the plant succubus scourge, but anytime I take 20 steps I gotta watch another cutscene about some dude who I honestly don't really care about talking to some other dude in a toga or something. Then his friend comes in who is just the same picture with a different colored toga. And for every single one of these men we're introduced to, you make us watch 3 seconds of it scrolling up from their feet to their face. So all this time is adding up and taking the hype away from me clearing out this forest or cave or whatever and I am just sitting there in my cuckscene corner thinking "Where are the boobs? My feet hurt. I just wanna get some fish. How do I know about the parts I'm not there for?"

If I were to offer any kind of solution, it would be to just focus on the main character, and then later if (and this is just an assumption) somehow we all meetup again, maybe the MC can ask them about their story and we can play a little sidequest as those other people and get to see their character and motivations then.

Other than that though, I enjoy my time with the game. I like the succubus designs. I like fighting them. I like winning and losing to them. It's the main draw of the game. The focus should be on them and the player's interactions with them. Otherwise it's not really Succubus Covenant. It's Men Have Discussions Generation One: The Cursed Pacing. Like... can't I just get letters from them or something? Something I can just read and put away so I can actually play the video game?

blufalcon said:
...there's exposition dumps that happen too often and at times that brings the momentum of things to a screeching halt. To me, it's like I'm trying to watch a 10 minute YouTube video that has 5 Ad breaks in it. I think it takes away from the immersion and that there could be better ways to have players engage with the story.

There are other things I could criticize as well, such as the lack of actual build options and runes just being stat-sticks. The lack of combat depth makes every fight in the game as easy as applying Iron Will before the battle and just holding down the confirm key to attack a few times to win. The only potential roadblock being the chance of getting RNG permastunned by the few enemies that have access to stuns, but that still usually isn't an issue. Let me ask this, if this game is supposed to span multiple chapters, generations, eons, etc, is the combat actually going to remain this stale throughout the entirety of it? Will we be challenged at all? Or is the Adalon Hunter going to continue to slice through everyone like a hot knife through butter? Did this dev work at fucking Blizzard or something? If the story is going to be raising stakes, then I think the combat should reflect that as well. It's obvious that the combat part of this role-playing game was sacrificed for the story. If I were to compare this game to something like The Three Charms R, then mechanically and narratively, Minwa is superior. Depth to the combat and story provided in ways that don't feel like you're #1 on every telemarketer's to-call list.

The dev is probably going to block anyone that criticizes them and say that we just don't understand their grand tale, but that won't stop me from pledging during release months to play the game. I'd like to note I'm not intending to come off as hostile, just criticizing. These forums are meant for discussion as well, but for some reason people here actually fucking hate any type of discourse and turn it into tribal warfare bullshit and try to shoo people away.

The game has suffered design issues from step 0. The combat is so shallow that it's almost not worth talking about and the story has considerable pacing issues and is riddled with exposition dumps that could've been conveyed with environmental storytelling and other techniques. Isn't that why so many writers say "show, don't tell"?

The dev clearly wants us to respect him as a writer but he's shown no respect to the players from the beginning, even when he frequented these threads. Anytime he was met with actual constructive criticism presented in a non-hostile way, he'd ignore it or imply that we're just too stupid to understand or enjoy it. The truth of the matter is that the story and lore is presented in such a terrible way that it actively kills the momentum not long after it just starts to get going. It doesn't even build up enough tension to be considered a cliffhanger. It is just a random deviation. This would bore any player of any game made like this and it would bore and reader of any book written like this.

There are thousands of FREE videos that he could use to learn the basics of game design (