[Suggestion] Adult Patreon

[Ryahn]

With patreon going down the route they are going. I was thinking of researching into and possibly developing a site for adult games and do something similar to Patreon. Most of the alternatives I have found to Patreon that allow adult games, are like kickstarter.

I was mainly thinking of hosting it in a country where some, if not most of the laws the are affecting Patreon wont work.

I would like to have a serious discussion on this and see what people think.

 

[starfox31114]

Hatreon exists:

You must be registered to see the links

Dunno if it's actually good and I don't care. But it would be funny if you end up flocking there.

 

[baneini]

First create a payment provider thats fine with beastiality/rape/loli so that your site can actually function.

 

[muttdoggy]

I agree. It can be linked here, too. Rules could be "cannot hide content behind paywall" and "site is to support your development".
@baneini I wouldn't allow loli/shota content if I ran the site.. incest/bestiality/monster/teenagers can skirt by most laws but NOT loli. I would encourage "non-consensual" content kept to a minimum? Just bare-bones rules that make sense?

My concerns...
- The biggest one is how do you handle financial transactions so they are guaranteed as secure?
- A basic framework for posting content like a "porn-focused" patreon alternative that has rules which financial companies, hosters, and servers can agree on.
- What about providing a "first come, first served" server space for secure uploads?

So the first and second points guarantee site stability and its future.
The third is an awesome bonus that can lure some to come to the site now.
And as money comes in and the cut is taken, that can in turn lead to more server space and more options for financial transactions.

 

[Shenaniganzz]

- The biggest one is how do you handle financial transactions so they are guaranteed as secure?

What about some sort of online escrow service. They can only accept the funds once the patrons release them.

I agree. It can be linked here, too. Rules could be "cannot hide content behind paywall" and "site is to support your development".

Premium "things" should be okay, right? Special renders, calendars, etc?

 

[Ryahn]

First create a payment provider thats fine with beastiality/rape/loli so that your site can actually function.

It would be hard to get anything to agree with loli. Its considered ********** outside of Japan. Rape is going to be kinda hard as well.

I agree. It can be linked here, too. Rules could be "cannot hide content behind paywall" and "site is to support your development".
@baneini I wouldn't allow loli/shota content if I ran the site.. incest/bestiality/monster/teenagers can skirt by most laws but NOT loli. I would encourage "non-consensual" content kept to a minimum? Just bare-bones rules that make sense?

My concerns...
- The biggest one is how do you handle financial transactions so they are guaranteed as secure?
- A basic framework for posting content like a "porn-focused" patreon alternative that has rules which financial companies, hosters, and servers can agree on.
- What about providing a "first come, first served" server space for secure uploads?

So the first and second points guarantee site stability and its future.
The third is an awesome bonus that can lure some to come to the site now.
And as money comes in and the cut is taken, that can in turn lead to more server space and more options for financial transactions.

Transactions part is going to be the hard part. The framework for posting can be easily done, its basically a blog in ways. As far as file serving goes, I would probably look into AWS or something. Going to hard to monitor it though, since people will want to hide content.

What about some sort of online escrow service. They can only accept the funds once the patrons release them.

That could work but I dont trust most of them.

 

[starfox31114]

I wouldn't allow loli/shota content if I ran the site.. incest/bestiality/monster/teenagers can skirt by most laws but NOT loli. I would encourage "non-consensual" content kept to a minimum? Just bare-bones rules that make sense?

HAHAHAHAHA! Oh god, you're the worst moderator by far. So it's ok to censor something YOU don't like for some arbitrary reason. Guess what, lolicon and straight shota are legal in most parts of US and even the world. I really hope you don't get to manage any fundraising site with arbitrary rules like that that you pull out of your easily hurt sensibility. You know what I would ban? NTR, because I fucking hate the damn thing and is a cancer to this "scene" and western civilization as a whole. But guess what, I wouldn't, because I'm not an idiot. I will shame that kind of content to dead, but I will never outright ban it just because I don't like it. This whole idea seems to be doomed from the beginning. Keep the good work.

 

[Rech]

@baneini I wouldn't allow loli/shota content if I ran the site.. incest/bestiality/monster/teenagers can skirt by most laws but NOT loli. I would encourage "non-consensual" content kept to a minimum? Just bare-bones rules that make sense?

You either allow everything (if it's 3D / 2D of course, not real images) or not doing it at all.

As for "new patreon", the only thing that comes to my mind is something hosted in "porn-law-friendly domain" with bitcoin'ish transactions. But I can't picture it becoming even relatively popular, so that most devs / patrons could move there. It will take some kind of advertising campaign, not to mention that cash related difficulties would still shoo away half of potential users.

 

[Ryahn]

HAHAHAHAHA! Oh god, you're the worst moderator by far. So it's ok to censor something YOU don't like for some arbitrary reason. Guess what, lolicon and straight shota are legal in most parts of US and even the world. I really hope you don't get to manage any fundraising site with arbitrary rules like that that you pull out of your easily hurt sensibility. You know what I would ban? NTR, because I fucking hate the damn thing and is a cancer to this "scene" and western civilization as a whole. But guess what, I wouldn't, because I'm not an idiot. I will shame that kind of content to dead, but I will never outright ban it just because I don't like it. This whole idea seems to be doomed from the beginning. Keep the good work.

So first things first, this is not about our positions here or F95zone in general. Secondly, this a suggestion thread and not a debate one. You are fine to have your own opinions but not here.

Now to touch on the subject. If you dont like one of the staff members, you have three options. You can PM F95 or Sam about a staff member, you can ignore them or its easy enough for you to not visit F95zone.

Now back to being on subject. We are debating genres here or anything related to F95zone. This is here to discuss something of a site that would be safe zone for adult content creators.

 

[starfox31114]

So first things first, this is not about our positions here or F95zone in general. Secondly, this a suggestion thread and not a debate one. You are fine to have your own opinions but not here.

Now to touch on the subject. If you dont like one of the staff members, you have three options. You can PM F95 or Sam about a staff member, you can ignore them or its easy enough for you to not visit F95zone.

Now back to being on subject. We are debating genres here or anything related to F95zone. This is here to discuss something of a site that would be safe zone for adult content creators.

Alright, want a good suggestion? Don't let that guy close to anything you come up with, if you actually do, after all, not allowing loli and the like is his opinion too. I already suggested hatreon, and getting porn games with alt-right people sounds as hilarious as it can get. There's Sam Hyde there too. And I'm not joking about that suggestion, the site already exist and it's pretty much seems like a free place so far. It's what I'd call an "adult patreon", and sounds safe enough to content creator unless you poke the alt-right the bad way.

 

[Antonia Timmens]

Well first, if any dev moves to Hatreon, my $ stop. That is a site that cashes in on alt-right, white supremacy, nazi, etc.

If I were a dev (I will admit that I have not yet looked at Patreon Terms of Service yet), I would be worried, no matter what my content is about, of this paragraph in their legal subsection:

By posting content to Hatreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content. The purpose of this license is to allow us to operate Hatreon, promote Hatreon and promote your content on Hatreon. We are not trying to steal your content or use it in an exploitative way.
(bold, underlining and italics by me)

The line about not trying to steal your content says they are not "trying" but have the right to if they wish....

And so long as you don't go to a payment provider stating "Hi, I'm Ryhan and I am running an adult game site and want to process payments, oh and it has tons of beastiality/rape/loli. That is why the fringe stuff is hidden/toned down, etc.
Most processors are over the "Adult" stigma from the early days (yes I remember when there was no internet... not well, but...). Hell, they already probably are doing processing for porn studios, etc. It is way lucrative for them. Sex sells is not just a marketing slogan LOL. Look at what people on Patreon are paying for incremental updates to games.

Having been in IT, web hosting, etc. for awhile (no age jokes!), the back end stuff and the payment API/Code etc. is the work. Then there is finding a hosting location. Out of the US is not good enough. You have to look at treaties and who shares info with whom. Even though your doing nothing illegal, you can be harassed, served and go broke just defending yourself. Not saying is would not work, because it is doable.. i.e. Patreon... but there are many dimensions.

Sorry for the ramble... the last cup of coffee was a goooood one :closedtongue:
E=MC2... Energy=My Coffee2

 

[starfox31114]

You say that as if Patreon didn't do that with Tencent already. You want a place where you're mostly free to do as you please? You'll have to deal with alt-right, because liberals and leftists seems to have a problem with free speech, wanting to censor lolicon and, right now, incest. Nobody cares about your $, but a place to develop and get revenue without a risk of them shutting you down for liking lolicon or incest.

A lawyer can be helpful, that line seems pretty good as a warning, you can patent and copy-right your product if you're afraid of someone stealing it. That line means Hatreon can't use your product for something other than promoting your product in something related to hatreon.

 

[xןʞ]

You've got the issue of payments really if you host all your server and payment receiving out of a non US country though, becasue unless you can somehow skirt it with paypal(which is iffy due to paypal's strict morality) a ton of US banks/credit cards that don't go through paypal middle man are gonna flat out deny and mark as fraud payments sent to random european country for "Mom boning game update .06"(or whatever other made up name you can think of at the moment.)

Also it could always be a conflict of interest from the users here and that site to begin with, people here(and across the web) will know that it is a start up by a bunch of pirates at heart and they'll just say "fuck donating I could just get it for free either way from the same guys' other site")while there are some of us who are actual patrons of various devs, you guys know good and well the vast majority of people here are just leeches who have no intention of ever donating to anyone, so I fear honestly you'd eventually have to choose one site or the other if you actually wanted said adult patreon to become profitable.

The whole loli/shota thing is iffy too really, just because what is and isn't really full on shota or loli, like obvious toddlercon and stuff where the kid is obviously super pre-pubescent(your Incestral Awakenings and such)but then you've got stuff like Urban Demons where the kid is just as much of a shota except with a cudgel for a dick(maybe that is the barrier for entry, your midget shota kids better be packing serious heat!) and stuff like a lot of the random incest games where the character is obviously a loli but there is the warning of "omg over 18!! *wink wink wink*" Personally I don't have any issue with any of it as long as it is drawn or 3D or whatever and not real pictures or whatever, because in the end they aren't real people so wahtever floats person's boat I guess.

But yeah I could see you guys getting it set up if you are able to run this site and deal with all the DMCA bullshit you surely have to put up with, but you're gonna have to jump through a ton of hoops to get it off the ground, and not to mention getting publicity for it, and getting big name devs to sign on which probably won't happen with a lot of them.

In the end there is always a good chance it might not even be worth all the work put into such a venture.

 

[OhWee]

So, based on the sheer number of posts and daily traffic on F-95, and the fact that it is still standing, tells me that F-95 is on pretty solid footing currently. As to what happens in the background, I have no idea but from a user standpoint, this site has been there pretty much every time I log on to the internet (except during the 2 minute backup/update thing that happens once a day). So I think you guys have the 'hardware end' covered.

The issue is going to be how to collect and disperse payments/donations. One of the issues that is brought up regularly about the Paypal/Patreon relationship is Paypal's usage policies. And the amount of info that Paypal would like to have about their customers. A major reason I don't donate to Adult games on Patreon now is because I want NO paper trail connecting me to said games, just in case such data is collected by some means...

Yes there is bitcoin I guess, but that seems like an extra unnecessary step if another way can be found. Then there's the question of setting up an 'accounting division' of your hosting enterprise, that collects the monies and dispurses it to the developers. That part of the equation is the one that would be most challenging for you guys.

So yeah, the donation/payment mechanism is the more challenging problem, and the one that needs to be worked out first.

 

[xןʞ]

Well first, if any dev moves to Hatreon, my $ stop. That is a site that cashes in on alt-right, white supremacy, nazi, etc.

Yeah basically I'd hope no self respecting dev would go to hatreon jsut because it is essentially a place for nazi fundraising, have some dignity and find another way to get funds.

And like Sam said in another topic it is only a matter of time before all the credit card companys and other payment methods catch wind of the site and refuse to process payments for anything on that site, so they'd be dumb to set up shop there anyway.

 

[muttdoggy]

@Antonia Timmens, @klx, @OhWee You've explained my concerns in detail..
When you are trying to establish a site where currency is exchanged internationally between different individuals, you are bound by various laws. And if third parties that provide banking and financial transactions will work with you, they always put conditions on it.. because it's money!
That's why I'd stay away from certain content like loli. Case in point.. Japan is reforming the way they do business with their porn industry because it is strong and has caught the attention of large banks and investors. Those investors do not want anything to do with loli/shota and some other fringe content because of legal concerns. This is likely the very reason Patreon has decided to do what they did- to protect their cash flow from the porn content they host, not the other way around. This paragraph is exactly the reason why we discourage loli content. Personally, I'm not dead set against it but I strongly discourage it because I understand how things work.

I would discourage hatreon being used. The word "hate" is in it. They push white supremacy and male domination. I am personally very very against that because when they're not trying to recruit me, they are busy trying to tear down people I love. One ex of mine is half black, another is half asian, several are part native american, many family members are part native and a few are part black and/or part hispanic. I love them all the same and they deserve all the love they can get. But the alt-right.. they don't and they can't see the colors of the world so they don't deserve a part in it. Again, this is my opinion.

 

[starfox31114]

Yeah basically I'd hope no self respecting dev would go to hatreon jsut because it is essentially a place for nazi fundraising, have some dignity and find another way to get funds.

And like Sam said in another topic it is only a matter of time before all the credit card companys and other payment methods catch wind of the site and refuse to process payments for anything on that site, so they'd be dumb to set up shop there anyway.

You are seriously asking dignity of people that makes games about bestiality and stuff like that? So it's ok to like bestiality but is somehow wrong to like lolicon or nazis now. Amazing.

Japan is reforming the way they do business with their porn industry because it is strong and has caught the attention of large banks and investors

And they failed already and instead decided to focus on actual **********, which worked wonderfully. A big part of Japan's media would collapse if you take out lolicon alone, because that's a big part of it, you like it or not, same with investors. Those very same investors wouldn't like to have anything to do with porn in the first place, so trying to appeal to them it's pretty stupid. If they are ok with fictional porn they might as well be ok with lolicon. But hey, you say you "understand how thing work", but doesn't really seems like it.
As for hatreon, I seriously can't believe that you think it's bad it has the word "hate". Patreon is investigating projects because they deal with the word "incest". It's the same principle, which is why I insist this project is doomed to be just as stupid as patreon right now, you are all being worst than the alt-right right now. You like it or not, Hatreon is your best option now. Or better yet, stop being a hack and don't have a patreon at all.

 

[Antonia Timmens]

right now, you are all being worst than the alt-right right now.

I am actually a huge fan of free speech, and with that comes free ignore/disagree.... but being compared to that is beyond offensive... since my better half is full on Asian makes us a target (and have been).
I believe everyone has the right to their opinion, no matter how hateful, so I respect yours.

Please respect mine and go piss on a very high voltage electric fence.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Transactions part is going to be the hard part.

Not only the hardest part, but also the decisive one.
The biggest problem with a site like this is that you need to be trusted by every parties. Both creators and supporters/patreons must trust you.
A creator will not put his project on your site if there's possibility that each 100 supporters, you divert one for your own purpose. And a supporter will not give money if he can't be sure that the money will really go to the creator (minus the part for your fees).
There's absolutely no way for both creators and supporters to know that there's really 1275 supporters and not in fact 1495, with 220 fooled because they give money, but you keep all of it for yourself. They both believe that the number is correct because they trust you.

Mostly, this is achieved by having a big company like PayPal as partner. People will trust them to have done some research about your credibility. So you need to find a trusty partner whatever you use it for every transactions or not.
By this I mean that you can have, by example, PayPal for the consensual adult content, and if the content reach their limits, you just say to the creator and his supporters than they must use another on of the possible options for the transactions.
It's more or less the same thing than IRL, when you use money to pay your favorite revue, and use your credit card to pay your monthly shopping. There's a lot of options, and some are, or not, available, according to the content of the game.

I would discourage hatreon being used. The word "hate" is in it.

Personally I stopped at "free speech". When you feel the need to say that you do this/that because you support free speech, 99% of the time you mean, "my opinions are really really really very controversial, when not totally illegal, but I want to express them anyway". And obviously, what's behind these words is not porn, not even brutal loli rape porn, but hate, hate and more hate.

 

[thanatos69]

It can't be done without a trusted team behind you, I'm afraid. Also, what stops the devs from creating their own websites and hosting their own membership sites instead of going to your alternative patreon? I believe it wouldn't be that hard to do. Many small dev do it already. Also, if you force them to not hide content behind paywalls, the big ones won't come. They're here to make money not to be your friend and give their content to the leechers.