VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[AlexFXR]

No, my words don't contradict themselves, you're just not understanding. SG is based on events that have already happened in WiaB. Events in SG are affected by this (the Zane presence). So they are both part of the same overall meta narative. That is what the series is. But SG has a different protagonist, and it remains to be seen if Willi gets any meaningful role in SG. Already we have the conditions that the player can't chose something that leads to Katie's death, and that Ayua is a Zane, Leia, Willi, Kaite, Zoey and Emilio survive whatever happens. Choices that could impact those facts for SG can't be taken, or the game is not connected. It is that simple. The more OCean writes about what happened 20 years earlier in SG, without having finished WiaB, the fewer meaningful choices he can write into WiaB. If for example, Katie does a big reveal of the turf war that leads to the Zane's gaining a business empire that includes the college, he gives away the plot of WiaB, and makes WiaB a kinetic novel. In order for the WiaB choices to be meaningful, he can't give away too much of what happened before in SG.

Now, we know Ocean has said that decisions from WiaB at some point WILL be carried over to SG. I honestly don't think he'll do that though. He has to have coded it in from the start of SG, and he has to have written all the variables in from a finished WiaB. WiaB isn't finished, and SG doesn't have any code connecting the saves that I know about, or any flags related to pre-existing choices. It would be a massive rework to retrofit the changes, unless they are cosmetic script based 'lore' (ie what happened before just being recounted to the new generation)

If I consider a AAA game such as the ME trilogy, each game builds on the previous game, choices made in the first game affect the third. But the series started from the first game, and was developed in a linear fashion. Ocean made a mistake in some ways allowing development on SG before fiishing WiaB. A good example of this is Steven Erickson and Ian Esslemont, writing a series together. Erickson did 6 books before Esslement did his first, so the series is entirely flavoured to Erickson. The idea is that two people can create a more vibrant world, but it requires people to work as a team. In SG's case, that didn't happen, and Ocean picked up the slack. So now we're in a situation where the development is happening in parallel.

This is what I was talking about, SG and Wiab will exist in the same game universe without interaction, but with mentions of events from the past.

If you're fast forwarding the 'chatter' how do you even know the details of the story though? The 'chatter' is where the story predominantly happens, the chatter explains what you see on the renders. I'm guessing you fast forwarded through the book club? This would explain why you don't know all the connections/insinuations between the games.

I'll let you in on a little secret, there are 2 types of dialogues that are found not only in games, but also in books, etc. The first type is when you're told interesting things about the plot. And the second type of dialogue is when you're given a bunch of meaningless information that doesn't affect anything, it only serves to stretch out the time of the game (movie, book). If you start listening to a dialogue filled with crap, you can safely fast-forward it, because there won't be anything interesting there.

See this is where you are wrong. Speed won't always be comfortable. Just like he's rendering (foolishly in my opinion) scenes with 32 characters. This will have effects on the basketball games. 32 is more than enough for two teams and coaches but he'd better not do too many bystanders. Or he acts with sense and stitches renders together. But these moments in the game with large numbers of characters at full complexity will slow his comupter down. So look at the current dev time for both games and divide the number of renders currently by the number of days. That will give you the average Ocean speed. He'll have just as many hiccups. THere is no comfortable speed - because we don't know if one update (the gala when it happens, or a big basketball match) will have 32 characters the whole update (I Hope not) and that WILL slow the game development down. So I'll stand by my words. Two updates a year for both games would be an amazing result, and is within the capabilities of Ocean to deliver. He can do faster, but he'll get overambitious in some ways - simply because he's always trying to impress. His efforts to do too much make the game better, but also hamstring him.

Have you ever looked into rendering courses? After a certain part of the training they give you a ready-made scene with a toothbrush or a barn (many options) so that you can render it. But you won't be able to do it, it's easier to render an Ocean's scene with 32 people. What's the joke? The problem is in the textures and materials, they are gigantic in size, but that's why they need to be cropped. The same can be said about the scenes with Ocean, if you crop the textures correctly, then you can easily render everything without any loss of quality. I don't understand why you need to make scenes with 32 people that will then be blurred. A good option was suggested by HarryDubois420, you can create at least 1000 low-poly people, they will still be blurred later and no one will notice their poor quality. But I don't see the point in making scenes with a large number of characters. And don't come up with excuses for Ocean, they sound ridiculous.

It's hard to create a game from scratch, but when there are ready scenes and characters, the time for developing a new chapter is greatly reduced, like in DPC, for example. But in Ocean, the development time is not reduced, but constantly increased, don't you think it's strange?

 

[Dee6902]

This is what I was talking about, SG and Wiab will exist in the same game universe without interaction, but with mentions of events from the past.


I'll let you in on a little secret, there are 2 types of dialogues that are found not only in games, but also in books, etc. The first type is when you're told interesting things about the plot. And the second type of dialogue is when you're given a bunch of meaningless information that doesn't affect anything, it only serves to stretch out the time of the game (movie, book). If you start listening to a dialogue filled with crap, you can safely fast-forward it, because there won't be anything interesting there.


Have you ever looked into rendering courses? After a certain part of the training they give you a ready-made scene with a toothbrush or a barn (many options) so that you can render it. But you won't be able to do it, it's easier to render an Ocean's scene with 32 people. What's the joke? The problem is in the textures and materials, they are gigantic in size, but that's why they need to be cropped. The same can be said about the scenes with Ocean, if you crop the textures correctly, then you can easily render everything without any loss of quality. I don't understand why you need to make scenes with 32 people that will then be blurred. A good option was suggested by HarryDubois420, you can create at least 1000 low-poly people, they will still be blurred later and no one will notice their poor quality. But I don't see the point in making scenes with a large number of characters. And don't come up with excuses for Ocean, they sound ridiculous.

It's hard to create a game from scratch, but when there are ready scenes and characters, the time for developing a new chapter is greatly reduced, like in DPC, for example. But in Ocean, the development time is not reduced, but constantly increased, don't you think it's strange?

It’s obviously strange but it’s clear Ocean is trying to hard to raise the bar and try and be overly ambitious with the renders. That’s what they’re saying Ocean should do the easier route not only for dev time but convenience. Hopefully Ocean can realize this and after these bigger updates simplify it. But it’s just hope.

 

[TheDuke9999]

It’s obviously strange but it’s clear Ocean is trying to hard to raise the bar and try and be overly ambitious with the renders. That’s what they’re saying Ocean should do the easier route not only for dev time but convenience. Hopefully Ocean can realize this and after these bigger updates simplify it. But it’s just hope.

if ocean making the kind of money they saying still after so much time is passed he will keep on going without releasing cause he probably making the entire VN so he can take a vaction and just keep putting updates out without working .. if you keep funding it he take as long as he wants.. your paying him for not releasing anything.. anyone would do the same thing making that kind of money for nothing

 

[BobTheDuck]

This is what I was talking about, SG and Wiab will exist in the same game universe without interaction, but with mentions of events from the past.

What differs is that if WiaB was put on hold until SG was finished, Ocean would have to make WiaB to fit the canon of SG. Right now he can decide whatever he want most for either of them. The more he confirms in SG before it happens in WiaB, the more he ties his hands. I really don't know why this seems so hard for you to accept. The 'events of the past' are WiaB.

I'll let you in on a little secret, there are 2 types of dialogues that are found not only in games, but also in books, etc. The first type is when you're told interesting things about the plot. And the second type of dialogue is when you're given a bunch of meaningless information that doesn't affect anything, it only serves to stretch out the time of the game (movie, book). If you start listening to a dialogue filled with crap, you can safely fast-forward it, because there won't be anything interesting there.

I've found that the only dialogue in SG that was truly pointless was during the tt scene. That did next to nothing to advance the characters or the story. Are you suggesting the book club or the night and Vic's were filler? Because more revelations happened in those stwo scenes than during the basket ball dialogues, or breaking into the Holgersons. Mostly, story tellers weave those two kinds of dialogues together, and the people who are impatient and skim read miss things.

Have you ever looked into rendering courses? After a certain part of the training they give you a ready-made scene with a toothbrush or a barn (many options) so that you can render it. But you won't be able to do it, it's easier to render an Ocean's scene with 32 people. What's the joke? The problem is in the textures and materials, they are gigantic in size, but that's why they need to be cropped. The same can be said about the scenes with Ocean, if you crop the textures correctly, then you can easily render everything without any loss of quality. I don't understand why you need to make scenes with 32 people that will then be blurred. A good option was suggested by HarryDubois420, you can create at least 1000 low-poly people, they will still be blurred later and no one will notice their poor quality. But I don't see the point in making scenes with a large number of characters. And don't come up with excuses for Ocean, they sound ridiculous.

It's hard to create a game from scratch, but when there are ready scenes and characters, the time for developing a new chapter is greatly reduced, like in DPC, for example. But in Ocean, the development time is not reduced, but constantly increased, don't you think it's strange?

You've gone way off the mark here compared to what I was talking about there. I don't need to know about daz or courses or anything. If Ocean does an update of 7000 renders (plus animations and postwork) in x days for SG, then 2333 renders (plus the animations and post work) should easily be done in x/3 days. This is already includes all the time spent on rendering scenes with 32 people or 1 person. So it's really simple maths based on his current speed and habits.

I don't think that it's needed for Ocean to push the cards to their hardest the whole time. But it's his new thing, and he wan't to see what the limits are. So that is at least sensible. If he kept working at the limits, well, that becomes foolhardy.

 

[AlexFXR]

What differs is that if WiaB was put on hold until SG was finished, Ocean would have to make WiaB to fit the canon of SG. Right now he can decide whatever he want most for either of them. The more he confirms in SG before it happens in WiaB, the more he ties his hands. I really don't know why this seems so hard for you to accept. The 'events of the past' are WiaB.

I've found that the only dialogue in SG that was truly pointless was during the tt scene. That did next to nothing to advance the characters or the story. Are you suggesting the book club or the night and Vic's were filler? Because more revelations happened in those stwo scenes than during the basket ball dialogues, or breaking into the Holgersons. Mostly, story tellers weave those two kinds of dialogues together, and the people who are impatient and skim read miss things.

I'll answer 2 at once, because they are connected. Remember what they told Ocean when he decided to make 2 games at the same time? He was told that these games are too big to devote only half of his attention to each. He needs to put all his efforts to finish at least one, and then start making the others. If he continues to make SG and Wiab at the same time, the games will be half-dead and after some time will be completely abandoned. Years later, we see that this is exactly what happened, the games are half-abandoned and are still in their early stages.

Ocean had enough energy to make 3.5 chapters in SG, after which the development ended and the game began to slowly die. In chapter 4, he came up with aliens that take up half a chapter and no one likes them. He could have fit this card game into a couple of renders, it would have been much better. I don't even know what to say about chapter 4.5, it is completely useless. All we learned is that there is a new social network and Victoria's sister will work as a gym teacher. As for me, this is completely unnecessary information that could have been contained in a couple of sentences, and not stretched out over an entire update. The entire beginning of Chapter 5 can be thrown out. Ocean has achieved that the scene with naked Bella instead of joy brings negativity and misunderstanding. In general, there are only 2 moments in this chapter that deserve attention, this is the club where you are introduced to new characters and the basketball game.

As a result, we get that all that Ocean does is constantly slow down the development of the plot in his games. It is financially profitable for him to do so, and he is not going to change it.

You've gone way off the mark here compared to what I was talking about there. I don't need to know about daz or courses or anything. If Ocean does an update of 7000 renders (plus animations and postwork) in x days for SG, then 2333 renders (plus the animations and post work) should easily be done in x/3 days. This is already includes all the time spent on rendering scenes with 32 people or 1 person. So it's really simple maths based on his current speed and habits.

I don't think that it's needed for Ocean to push the cards to their hardest the whole time. But it's his new thing, and he wan't to see what the limits are. So that is at least sensible. If he kept working at the limits, well, that becomes foolhardy.

Apparently you didn't understand why I was talking about 4 months, I'll try to explain it more simply. I'll only take Ocean's data. As you know, its average speed is about 1000 renders per month. It will be able to create those 2333 renders you're talking about in less than 2.5 months. All that's left is to insert the pictures into Renpy and write text for them. How long will it take to insert 1 picture and write text for it? No more than a minute, let's increase it to 3 minutes to be unbiased, that's enough time to write even with one hand. Now the math: 2333*3=6999 minutes or 116.65 hours. To do all this in 1.5 months, you need to work an average of 2.6 hours every day. Do you call that working at the limit? Then I'm interested in what you'll say about an 8-hour workday, like most people on our planet work.

 

[alanrock]

You've gone way off the mark here compared to what I was talking about there. I don't need to know about daz or courses or anything. If Ocean does an update of 7000 renders (plus animations and postwork) in x days for SG, then 2333 renders (plus the animations and post work) should easily be done in x/3 days. This is already includes all the time spent on rendering scenes with 32 people or 1 person. So it's really simple maths based on his current speed and habits.

Apparently you didn't understand why I was talking about 4 months, I'll try to explain it more simply. I'll only take Ocean's data. As you know, its average speed is about 1000 renders per month. It will be able to create those 2333 renders you're talking about in less than 2.5 months. All that's left is to insert the pictures into Renpy and write text for them. How long will it take to insert 1 picture and write text for it? No more than a minute, let's increase it to 3 minutes to be unbiased, that's enough time to write even with one hand. Now the math: 2333*3=6999 minutes or 116.65 hours. To do all this in 1.5 months, you need to work an average of 2.6 hours every day.

 

[BobTheDuck]

View attachment 4676867

I'm hearing you. I can only repeat the same points so many times before my fingers get tired anyway

 

[Dee6902]

I'll answer 2 at once, because they are connected. Remember what they told Ocean when he decided to make 2 games at the same time? He was told that these games are too big to devote only half of his attention to each. He needs to put all his efforts to finish at least one, and then start making the others. If he continues to make SG and Wiab at the same time, the games will be half-dead and after some time will be completely abandoned. Years later, we see that this is exactly what happened, the games are half-abandoned and are still in their early stages.

Ocean had enough energy to make 3.5 chapters in SG, after which the development ended and the game began to slowly die. In chapter 4, he came up with aliens that take up half a chapter and no one likes them. He could have fit this card game into a couple of renders, it would have been much better. I don't even know what to say about chapter 4.5, it is completely useless. All we learned is that there is a new social network and Victoria's sister will work as a gym teacher. As for me, this is completely unnecessary information that could have been contained in a couple of sentences, and not stretched out over an entire update. The entire beginning of Chapter 5 can be thrown out. Ocean has achieved that the scene with naked Bella instead of joy brings negativity and misunderstanding. In general, there are only 2 moments in this chapter that deserve attention, this is the club where you are introduced to new characters and the basketball game.

As a result, we get that all that Ocean does is constantly slow down the development of the plot in his games. It is financially profitable for him to do so, and he is not going to change it.

Apparently you didn't understand why I was talking about 4 months, I'll try to explain it more simply. I'll only take Ocean's data. As you know, its average speed is about 1000 renders per month. It will be able to create those 2333 renders you're talking about in less than 2.5 months. All that's left is to insert the pictures into Renpy and write text for them. How long will it take to insert 1 picture and write text for it? No more than a minute, let's increase it to 3 minutes to be unbiased, that's enough time to write even with one hand. Now the math: 2333*3=6999 minutes or 116.65 hours. To do all this in 1.5 months, you need to work an average of 2.6 hours every day. Do you call that working at the limit? Then I'm interested in what you'll say about an 8-hour workday, like most people on our planet work.

I definitely agree 4-4.5 where not as good as the beginning chapters and drag but also the beginning is exactly that and introducing everything will have a lot more impact and substance. But that's no excuse for the wait to get as much of a fall off of story continuation as there was. CH 5 regained some of the momentum built up. Now Ocean has decided to way over pack S2 Ch 1 so well have to see if it can build on Ch5 and make up for the slower pace of the end of 1. And hope or cope here that Ocean can go to back to smaller updates. But its a waiting game atp.

 

[Ar4iX]

The idea to use simple calculations to estimate creative work performance is not based on reality and only creates unrealistic expectations. I doubt any author even if he is supported by subscriptions like patreon would actually go as far to promise somehow consistent performance. Something like this would require a team and be much more expensive, not to mention the quality will inevitably suffer if that team would be expected to deliver quantity over quality.

The writing and story in this game are next level, I honestly thought at one point that I should reconsider my own score on story writing in all the other VN games I ever played. Perhaps the RPG game with aliens and stuff was unnecessary filler, but this kind of sidelining in the story never clicked with me in all other games trying the same stuff. Strangely enough the basketball game was not as boring as expected and even the book club chapter was interesting enough although I would have preferred to see real progress in the main story instead.

Still characters or least some of them are really exceptional. Story overall and especially parts related to MC his "roommates" and the Bella part are a true masterpiece. In the start of the game I expected dark and moody story with MC that is riddled with internal struggles and that will make stupid decisions that will persist through the game. Instead everything has been served with a very healthy dose of humor while keeping the sensitive topics at bay and the mood in a much lighter tones. The game transitioned into school atmosphere in a quite unexpected manner and the clash with Bella and the how the story with her unfolded was made with such a skill that I couldn't stop playing.

Too bad the author did not use all that talent into creating and integrating some hot lewd scenes... could have been quite fun part.

 

[Canto Forte]

The retcon + race swap + story change + play the villain and help her win + destroy both protagonists deffinitively
is what Naughty Dog did with last of us 2 already and more than half the planet praised them for it.

Change of plot, story or events is what successful dev do to lie, cheat, gaslight, bully and demean their fan base while they build their tall, whicker, trosian high horse on the corpses of their characters.

Ocean seems to have more integrity than that.

Does he?

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[AlexFXR]

Now Ocean has decided to way over pack S2 Ch 1 so well have to see if it can build on Ch5 and make up for the slower pace of the end of 1.

This is what all fans are hoping for.

The idea to use simple calculations to estimate creative work performance is not based on reality and only creates unrealistic expectations.

Good joke. How then do you distinguish between people who are busy working and those who are idle?

 

[murphy88]

The last 10 times I have entered this thread to read, the theme was the same, criticisms to the progress of the game, criticisms to the complexity of the renders, and above all, high expectations of abandonment of development...


Is it really that screwed up? I don't know, I see that the game is being a success, yes it's true that to bring 2 at the same time and the high quality renders complicate things or development times, but do you really see an abandonment of the project with how pampered the product is? as they have said above, the dialogues of this game are at another level, the story is addictive and the renders are the best of all known renpy, the potential is there, just need to include lewd scenes and the thing will get interesting, I can't imagine someone who puts so much obsession in making it perfect, abandoning the development, and keep in mind that the last update of BADIK took more than 1 year, it begins to be the usual ...

 

[xortor]

Every so often I feel like rejoining this thread and try to remember why I stopped posting here.

Let me just read a few of the latest posts and catch myself up...



See ya'll next time I forget.

 

[Dee6902]

The last 10 times I have entered this thread to read, the theme was the same, criticisms to the progress of the game, criticisms to the complexity of the renders, and above all, high expectations of abandonment of development...


Is it really that screwed up? I don't know, I see that the game is being a success, yes it's true that to bring 2 at the same time and the high quality renders complicate things or development times, but do you really see an abandonment of the project with how pampered the product is? as they have said above, the dialogues of this game are at another level, the story is addictive and the renders are the best of all known renpy, the potential is there, just need to include lewd scenes and the thing will get interesting, I can't imagine someone who puts so much obsession in making it perfect, abandoning the development, and keep in mind that the last update of BADIK took more than 1 year, it begins to be the usual ...

We all like the game and just want it to succeed but there are things that are concerning with Ocean. Also talking about this stuff keeps us busy till an update lol.

 

[Miranha157]

See ya'll next time I forget.

Get out of the fake ocean

 

[Miranha157]

The last 10 times I have entered this thread to read, the theme was the same, criticisms to the progress of the game, criticisms to the complexity of the renders, and above all, high expectations of abandonment of development...


Is it really that screwed up? I don't know, I see that the game is being a success, yes it's true that to bring 2 at the same time and the high quality renders complicate things or development times, but do you really see an abandonment of the project with how pampered the product is? as they have said above, the dialogues of this game are at another level, the story is addictive and the renders are the best of all known renpy, the potential is there, just need to include lewd scenes and the thing will get interesting, I can't imagine someone who puts so much obsession in making it perfect, abandoning the development, and keep in mind that the last update of BADIK took more than 1 year, it begins to be the usual ...

Imagine following a game that has been in development for five years. The developer has made countless changes, the story has nothing that makes you go "wow," and the first season ends in a disappointing way because he ignored the fans, removed scenes, and did a half-baked rework.

Instead of actually releasing an update with new content, he comes up with excuses—tax issues, needing to replace his PC, missing a power cable, combining two updates into one, making 7,000 renders, adding a food menu, and a skill tree.

In short, he has made up everything over the last six years and delivered nothing—just promises and delays.

Oh, and I almost forgot—he now does dev logs every other week, with just a single render.

 

[Audi4Rings]

every now and again I'm like I should really give this a try. then I come here and read some of the comments and I decide to put it off for another few months. that's ok with me honestly because I value most of the comments here.

 

[Holyx9]

As much as I am a fan of Ocean, SG season 2 chapter 1 being over 7000 renders is just excessive and biting off more than he can chew. Even DPC with his latest episode of BAD just crossed the 7k render for the episode and BAD is over 2/3 completed. I think there will be multiple renders that are used without a single line of dialogue in it just like in chapter 5 of season 1. I feel that chapter 1 being a round 4500 to 5k renders is a good sweet spot that provides lots of content for a new season with out going over board and would have kept the dev time to around 1 year.

 

[John972]

As much as I am a fan of Ocean, SG season 2 chapter 1 being over 7000 renders is just excessive and biting off more than he can chew. Even DPC with his latest episode of BAD just crossed the 7k render for the episode and BAD is over 2/3 completed. I think there will be multiple renders that are used without a single line of dialogue in it just like in chapter 5 of season 1. I feel that chapter 1 being a round 4500 to 5k renders is a good sweet spot that provides lots of content for a new season with out going over board and would have kept the dev time to around 1 year.

If you look at the way SG is structured as an AVN, you will notice it allows for significant branching. That creates an inevitable cascading effect each update where more renders are needed for any given scene because of the branching variations.

I expect updates will either get bigger (i.e. render count) or will cover a reduced amount of in-game time. The latter can cause player frustration because an update may seem short if playing a single branch.

I mentioned this a year ago. It seemed obvious then that what Ocean is trying to achieve is very ambitious because of a cascading effect.

 

[Holyx9]

If you look at the way SG is structured as an AVN, you will notice it allows for significant branching. That creates an inevitable cascading effect each update where more renders are needed for any given scene because of the branching variations.

I expect updates will either get bigger (i.e. render count) or will cover a reduced amount of in-game time. The latter can cause player frustration because an update may seem short if playing a single branch.

I mentioned this a year ago. It seemed obvious then that what Ocean is trying to achieve is very ambitious because of a cascading effect.

The branching so far in SG season 1 was very limited. Bella has the most content with the rest of the girls sharing the rest. We barely even gotten to know the girls really that well as well. That would make sense since time wise season 1 was only about a about a weeks time in terms of progression and not including the 2 week time skip to begin the semester.