Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5091] [Kompas Productions]

[j4yj4m]

I think they're doing a lot more than just a 4:3 to 16:9 conversion. The backgrounds have been done for ages and even a full game re-pose shouldn't have taken this long, so I'm guessing they're also bringing everyone's art up to the newest style and re-doing a lot of legacy code.

As much as I would like it to be true, the posing does indeed seem to be an issue, which is why they hired more people some time ago. Of course we'll see many improvements to the code etc. but I doubt we'll get as much new art besides what they promised, apart from maybe a little bit extra here and there. I mean, I don't really see a reason why DC would keep the rework of legacy art a secret.

My hope would be that Sploosh/DC already got at least a bit of Ronda content done, so she'll get her update a bit faster...

 

[ashaik]

As much as I would like it to be true, the posing does indeed seem to be an issue, which is why they hired more people some time ago. Of course we'll see many improvements to the code etc. but I doubt we'll get as much new art besides what they promised, apart from maybe a little bit extra here and there. I mean, I don't really see a reason why DC would keep the rework of legacy art a secret.

My hope would be that Sploosh/DC already got at least a bit of Ronda content done, so she'll get her update a bit faster...

yea they already started drawing rhonda's locations and extra characters on his stream

 

[MurkyTurtle]

As much as I would like it to be true, the posing does indeed seem to be an issue, which is why they hired more people some time ago. Of course we'll see many improvements to the code etc. but I doubt we'll get as much new art besides what they promised, apart from maybe a little bit extra here and there. I mean, I don't really see a reason why DC would keep the rework of legacy art a secret.

He hasn't really kept it a secret, though? He's been reworking characters for ages on streams and he probably had enough of them on the rig system already that it wouldn't take much extra effort to do a full conversion for their basic poses. The sex scenes and animations aren't going to be updated, sure, but if you're re-posing the entirety of someone like Tammy or Erik it doesn't make sense to reuse old full character poses when the rig models are sitting right there, take up less space, and you're gonna have to do it eventually anyways.

Heck, it's probably why the posing is taking so damned long. Old poses could easily be offset by X pixels to fit the widescreen frame, but brand-new rigged ones would all need to be done manually. I can't think of any other reason why it would be such a major issue otherwise.

 

[j4yj4m]

He hasn't really kept it a secret, though? He's been reworking characters for ages on streams and he probably had enough of them on the rig system already that it wouldn't take much extra effort to do a full conversion for their basic poses.

Sure, but drawing these basic poses for characters (including characters holding items, etc.) is usually his "bread-and-butter" stream content and given that we haven't seen any of that in these last months, I just kinda doubt it's going to happen.

The sex scenes and animations aren't going to be updated, sure, but if you're re-posing the entirety of someone like Tammy or Erik it doesn't make sense to reuse old full character poses when the rig models are sitting right there, take up less space, and you're gonna have to do it eventually anyways.

In this case they'll simply have to choose between two evils. The old content of Debbie, Erik, Mia, etc. is supposed to be changed (significantly) in the future anyway, so they'll have to touch it again once the updates are due. What ever they do now will be temporary until all of the reworks are done. Given what I've seen in the past I'm not sure they'd want to make the effort now, just to redo large parts of it once these characters win their polls.

 

[srksrk 68]

He hasn't really kept it a secret, though? He's been reworking characters for ages on streams and he probably had enough of them on the rig system already that it wouldn't take much extra effort to do a full conversion for their basic poses. The sex scenes and animations aren't going to be updated, sure, but if you're re-posing the entirety of someone like Tammy or Erik it doesn't make sense to reuse old full character poses when the rig models are sitting right there, take up less space, and you're gonna have to do it eventually anyways.

Heck, it's probably why the posing is taking so damned long. Old poses could easily be offset by X pixels to fit the widescreen frame, but brand-new rigged ones would all need to be done manually. I can't think of any other reason why it would be such a major issue otherwise.

Have you ever coded a Ren'Py game? It's not only having the art in place. Layered images make things easier once in place, but the emphasis lies heavily on "once in place" here.

 

[MurkyTurtle]

Have you ever coded a Ren'Py game? It's not only having the art in place. Layered images make things easier once in place, but the emphasis lies heavily on "once in place" here.

I haven't, but I'm guessing it works something like "Images A, B, and C @ Positions Q, R, and S"? So character body, head, mouth flaps, etc. are placed appropriately on top one another and then faded or reappeared at certain timings based on the scene. Shouldn't implementing the new posing of scenes that have been done once already be as simple as "Images A, B, and C @ Positions Q+X, R+X, and S+X", where X is however many horizontal pixels needed to reposition the layered images in the new widescreen background? The relative positions of the individual components of the layered images to one another should be unchanged, as should be the animation timings.

My apologies if it's more complex than that, but I'd imagine it'd be a horribly unwieldy system to implement if you couldn't effectively reuse or manipulate an existing layered image without too much effort.

 

[Omnikuken]

I haven't, but I'm guessing it works something like "Images A, B, and C @ Positions Q, R, and S"? So character body, head, mouth flaps, etc. are placed appropriately on top one another and then faded or reappeared at certain timings based on the scene. Shouldn't implementing the new posing of scenes that have been done once already be as simple as "Images A, B, and C @ Positions Q+X, R+X, and S+X", where X is however many horizontal pixels needed to reposition the layered images in the new widescreen background? The relative positions of the individual components of the layered images to one another should be unchanged, as should be the animation timings.

My apologies if it's more complex than that, but I'd imagine it'd be a horribly unwieldy system to implement if you couldn't effectively reuse or manipulate an existing layered image without too much effort.

Gotta wonder why they needed 2 new posers and the code hasn't moved in 5 months if it was easy to do ....... Either of 3 options :

#1 - Renpy is hot garbage and is a coding nightmare
#2 - Poser(s) and coder are hot garbage and need to re-plan their lives
#3 - A mix of everything and some other unknown factors (like DC himself being hot garbage and a pro-milker)

So much choices, so little info

 

[j4yj4m]

It looks like DC adjusts/renames quite a few of the assets while he checks them and corrects whatever isn't to his liking/standard. That's likely why simple copy and paste jobs aren't possible for the most part. Today's stream was actually a pretty decent example of that... for those who want to rewatch it.

In case anybody cares: At some point we'll probably get a witch in her late 20s or so (wearing a black dress with silver hair, at least if stray gets his will) in the new forest location and possibly a (were)wolf-girl that - I guess - would be somehow connected to her.

 

[srksrk 68]

I haven't, but I'm guessing it works something like "Images A, B, and C @ Positions Q, R, and S"? So character body, head, mouth flaps, etc. are placed appropriately on top one another and then faded or reappeared at certain timings based on the scene. Shouldn't implementing the new posing of scenes that have been done once already be as simple as "Images A, B, and C @ Positions Q+X, R+X, and S+X", where X is however many horizontal pixels needed to reposition the layered images in the new widescreen background? The relative positions of the individual components of the layered images to one another should be unchanged, as should be the animation timings.

My apologies if it's more complex than that, but I'd imagine it'd be a horribly unwieldy system to implement if you couldn't effectively reuse or manipulate an existing layered image without too much effort.

As I said, it's quite easy to *use* a layered image in a dialog or scene, once the layered image has been correctly defined. The difficulty is to define the image so that it can be used. If not done properly, you end up with a girl having no face or no arms in the best case, or a Ren'Py exception in the worst, depending on what she is to wear, what time it is, or if she is pregnant or not.
To make it worse, the layered image has a context, i.e. it depends on what other image has been shown in the same scene before. A very simple example would be (something like that really is in the game):

show diane b_magic f_happy a_hips

which would show Diane, being happy, with her arms on her hips. But that is supposed to work regardless of what she wears (naked, cow outfit, overall, dress...), if she sits or stands, if she is pregnant or not, or even if she is covered in some body fluids or not, not to mention if she is currently being silent or talking. To make it work, it has to be put some effort in *defining* that image in the first place, after all the assets are being drawn by DC. Therefore, the naming of her body "b_magic" is not an exaggeration at all

It looks like DC adjusts/renames quite a few of the assets while he checks them and corrects whatever isn't to his liking/standard. That's likely why simple copy and paste jobs aren't possible for the most part. Today's stream was actually a pretty decent example of that... for those who want to rewatch it.

In case anybody cares: At some point we'll probably get a witch in her late 20s or so (wearing a black dress with silver hair, at least if stray gets his will) in the new forest location and possibly a (were)wolf-girl that - I guess - would be somehow connected to her.

I hope you are refering to old assets (before introduction of the layered images). If he now starts to rename everything after the Jenny update, that would be the end of it...

 

[Omnikuken]

As I said, it's quite easy to *use* a layered image in a dialog or scene, once the layered image has been correctly defined. The difficulty is to define the image so that it can be used. If not done properly, you end up with a girl having no face or no arms in the best case, or a Ren'Py exception in the worst, depending on what she is to wear, what time it is, or if she is pregnant or not.
To make it worse, the layered image has a context, i.e. it depends on what other image has been shown in the same scene before. A very simple example would be (something like that really is in the game):

show diane b_magic f_happy a_hips

which would show Diane, being happy, with her arms on her hips. But that is supposed to work regardless of what she wears (naked, cow outfit, overall, dress...), if she sits or stands, if she is pregnant or not, or even if she is covered in some body fluids or not, not to mention if she is currently being silent or talking. To make it work, it has to be put some effort in *defining* that image in the first place, after all the assets are being drawn by DC. Therefore, the naming of her body "b_magic" is not an exaggeration at all

I hope you are refering to old assets (before introduction of the layered images). If he now starts to rename everything after the Jenny update, that would be the end of it...

After the naked stream, nothing can surprise us anymore

 

[Viressa]

In case anybody cares: At some point we'll probably get a witch in her late 20s or so (wearing a black dress with silver hair, at least if stray gets his will) in the new forest location and possibly a (were)wolf-girl that - I guess - would be somehow connected to her.

Yesssss more goth onee-samas

 

[ImTransAndTiny]

Gotta wonder why they needed 2 new posers and the code hasn't moved in 5 months if it was easy to do ....... Either of 3 options :

#1 - Renpy is hot garbage and is a coding nightmare
#2 - Poser(s) and coder are hot garbage and need to re-plan their lives
#3 - A mix of everything and some other unknown factors (like DC himself being hot garbage and a pro-milker)

So much choices, so little info

It's not #1. I've read almost every script file in this game, and I've had to read most of the Ren'Py documentation. I have, at various times in my career, developed applications in ten different programming languages and eight scripting languages. I've also modded games in QSP and Ren'Py. With good code, Ren'Py is a very capable platform, based on a language that was designed to prevent coding nightmares (Python).

The quality of the code in Summertime Saga is inconsistent. The way things are done has clearly changed several times. The newer code is much better than the older code.

I have no insight into #2 and 3.

 

[Omnikuken]

It's not #1. I've read almost every script file in this game, and I've had to read most of the Ren'Py documentation. I have, at various times in my career, developed applications in ten different programming languages and eight scripting languages. I've also modded games in QSP and Ren'Py. With good code, Ren'Py is a very capable platform, based on a language that was designed to prevent coding nightmares (Python).

The quality of the code in Summertime Saga is inconsistent. The way things are done has clearly changed several times. The newer code is much better than the older code.

I have no insight into #2 and 3.

We are on the 4th coder (5th if you count DC's early attempt), that would explain the mess that is Summertime code

 

[GucciGang69]

Guys wheres Jenny and odette in this scene? I cant find them! is it a bug?

 

[j4yj4m]

I hope you are refering to old assets (before introduction of the layered images). If he now starts to rename everything after the Jenny update, that would be the end of it...

I'm afraid not. Yesterday for example he did sort/rearrange all of the pregnant girls in the hospital's children's ward, so they are 100% consistent across the board. Though I have no idea whether that was a special case or not. I'd guess that most assests won't be as much work.

 

[srksrk 68]

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View attachment 1617062
Guys wheres Jenny and odette in this scene? I cant find them! is it a bug?

Your Jenny might currently be pregnant, so the scene with her will not trigger. Come back after she is out of the clinic again.
And one post is sufficient...

 

[GucciGang69]

Your Jenny might currently be pregnant, so the scene with her will not trigger. Come back after she is out of the clinic again.
And one post is sufficient...

Ty so much bro, yeah she is pregnant and next time im going with one picture haha

 

[McSlut]

i for one am looking forward to milking veronica in the barn. i'm really looking forward to seeing the story explanation for it. "hey veronica you want to give up your regular job and just get your tits milked daily in a barn together with a human/cow hybrid and my crazy aunt who blew up her house to do the same?"

 

[j4yj4m]

i for one am looking forward to milking veronica in the barn. i'm really looking forward to seeing the story explanation for it.

I guess in her case it'll probably be an evening/night thing - after all her character is actually needed in the mall. I mean, in Diane's story she seems to be pretty naughty, so I don't really believe it's going to be much of an issue to convince her.

 

[mightybored]

I guess in her case it'll probably be an evening/night thing - after all her character is actually needed in the mall. I mean, in Diane's story she seems to be pretty naughty, so I don't really believe it's going to be much of an issue to convince her.

I wonder if it's going to taste slightly different; like wines from different vineyards.