Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5091] [Kompas Productions]

[j4yj4m]

I'd hesitate to use terms like "objectively" when referring to whether a game is good or not. SS has quite a lot of high-quality artwork and animation, but the story can get pretty mediocre in places, the game leads you around by the nose through each quest, and the individual mini-game elements range from boring to outright terrible. Like "shit someone threw together in an afternoon and slapped up on early Newgrounds" terrible.

Four or five years ago SS was easily a top-tier game and might still be the best game in the 2D art space, but we've had a lot of really good adult games the last few years that have exposed its weaknesses.

Well, I didn't say it was the best, perfect or even great, but if the story "can" be medicore "in places", the game obviously isn't medicore or even bad overall, right? I think my statement is pretty fair, given that it's based on actual criticisms of the game. Sure, the parts of the main story and some of the old stories (which are going to be reworked) aren't always great, but that's indeed the case for almost every game over here and even the really good ones in 2D SS' peer group have some points/mechanisms to be criticized.

I'd indeed say, that SS wasn't a good game back in the days, when it started to become popular. The art was mostly rushed when it comes to the releases up to 0.13 or so and the stories and quests were actually "objectively" bad at times (looking at Jenny's old story, for example), etc.

Can't really make a comment about the early game first ver. I played was 17.5 but it is a good game. Yes it has flaws but frankly what game doesn't have them. Unless the flaws out weigh the over all exp. of playing it I generally don't get worked up about them. It has good Art, story is okay , character interactions can be quite funny at times not to hard to play and gennerally keeps my interest for long periods of time. I can't really ask a lot more from a game it helps me pass the time , better than watching the stupid TV...

The game certainly improved a lot since.
18.0 actually removed the biggest mess, which was Jenny's old story and her connection to Somrak. There are still elements like Debbie's bad art, the mix of old and new art for some other characters or Mia's way too short story, which are obvious problems.

The game is improving update by update and I'm personally looking forward to the point, where all of the old pre 0.16.0 assets will finally be gone for good.

 

[McSlut]

one big appeal of STS back then was the transparency of DC's work and the frequent updates. i came to STS after playing witch trainer and princess trainer and while i still think those games had better art, the thing with akabur games is that he works slow and back then you had no idea when something new would release. in the early days of STS you knew that DC would stream everyday and every 2-3 months there would be an update. obviously things change, the tracker is completly pointless, DC still streams most of the time when he's not sick but he's been doodling on the same backgrounds for weeks and he uses half of the stream time to joke around with his team, it doesn't really feel like he's still focused on the job.

thinking about it those akabur games also have better writing which is funny because STS has a dedicated writer and akabur does everything himself, as time goes on i more and more appreciate this guy because at least he finishes his games. STS will never be finished, i'm sorry but you know it's true. i can't even imagine the headache that implementing the dating system for all the characters will be and how many years it will take.

what summertime saga still has going for it is the chill atmosphere of a summer vacation, at least back then it was kinda cool and reminded me of a lot of old newgrounds porn games but honestly there have been lots of games especially japanese ones who are doing the whole "summer vacation" vibe much better. the main story with it's sex trafficking themes and the serious tone ruined a lot of that for me, so did the meme characters (rumps, fatther keeves, gordon ramsay and so on

edit: also back then the game showed a lot of promise with it's sandbox elements like the telescope, the strip poker, the various jobs you could take and so on. i was really hoping DC would expand on those features but the strip poker thing will probably be outright abandoned

 

[j4yj4m]

the main story with it's sex trafficking themes and the serious tone ruined a lot of that for me

But that tone has been there for years, many people just chose to ignore it. MC's dad was killed by the mob and they've been pressuring Debbie to pay, visiting MC's house, etc.

...so did the meme characters (rumps, fatther keeves, gordon ramsay and so on

Which is fair, but luckily it seems like DC has got enough of them himself by now. Those characters seem overrepresented, because they were released within consecutive updates, but they are are less prominent, once you look at the game as a whole. It's an issue, but I'd say it's not as big of a thing overall as some may say.

i was really hoping DC would expand on those features but the strip poker thing will probably be outright abandoned

I'm honestly quite happy that the strip poker idea beyond Erik's story may be gone for good.
It'll be a ton of work to create all of the NSFW assets in a decent quality and ultimately you'd probably still get a medicore poker game (without the option to determin opponent's skills, etc.) within the actual game, which most players, who don't like to play poker, would play/cheat once to see the content and that's it.

If someone really wants to play strip poker, it's probably better if he just gets a strip poker game instead.

 

[McSlut]

ut that tone has been there for years, many people just chose to ignore it. MC's dad was killed by the mob and they've been pressuring Debbie to pay, visiting MC's house, etc.

yeah but i always thought that the actual story would be far less depressing and serious. i always believed that the main story would end with the reveal that MC's dad was still alive while the premise would be serious that there would be this huge tonal shift with MC destroying a sex trafficking ring and standing over some guy with a pistol in hand like in a bad b-movie.

also the big bad looks like putin and then you have sex with all the sex trafficked women you just saved. i have no idea what the writers were smoking but it's so bad tonally.

I'm honestly quite happy that the strip poker idea beyond Erik's story may be gone for good.

i liked it because just like with the telescope those open world aspects is what seperated STS from other ren'py visual novels for me. now there are basically 0 open world interactions, you are even encouraged to play through every girl's story and don't deviate or the game might break. if the game got rid of the map nothing much would change.

 

[srksrk 68]

yeah but i always thought that the actual story would be far less depressing and serious. i always believed that the main story would end with the reveal that MC's dad was still alive while the premise would be serious that there would be this huge tonal shift with MC destroying a sex trafficking ring and standing over some guy with a pistol in hand like in a bad b-movie.

also the big bad looks like putin and then you have sex with all the sex trafficked women you just saved. i have no idea what the writers were smoking but it's so bad tonally.



i liked it because just like with the telescope those open world aspects is what seperated STS from other ren'py visual novels for me. now there are basically 0 open world interactions, you are even encouraged to play through every girl's story and don't deviate or the game might break. if the game got rid of the map nothing much would change.

Well I am sorry you feel this way. Honestly, the one thing that always kept me liking this game is the story. It just makes the difference between Summertime Saga and the majority of Meet-and-Fuck games here.

 

[j4yj4m]

yeah but i always thought that the actual story would be far less depressing and serious. i always believed that the main story would end with the reveal that MC's dad was still alive...

At least to me that would have been a lot worse. Imagine coming back finding out that your son is fucking your wife, daughter and "love affair"/colleagues

... while the premise would be serious that there would be this huge tonal shift with MC destroying a sex trafficking ring and standing over some guy with a pistol in hand like in a bad b-movie.

That's certainly true but to me some of that feels inevitable. After all, it's much more safisfactory to beat the bad guys if they are really "the bad guys" and if there's at least something on line. I do think that the main story, with all its faults, did manage to be captivating enough so people actually wanted to finish it, once they started it.

also the big bad looks like putin and then you have sex with all the sex trafficked women you just saved. i have no idea what the writers were smoking but it's so bad tonally.

I think the mob girls pre-tech update managed to relativize that point quite a bit, once you see that especially Svetlana and Katya are actually rather independent personalities.

i liked it because just like with the telescope those open world aspects is what seperated STS from other ren'py visual novels for me.

I'm sure the telescope will be back once there's actual content for it. I mean, there are only so many neighbours MC can spy on and neither Mia nor Erik have won any polls in recent times. I'd agree though, that it would be nice to add a few more spy scenes to let's say the treehouse and major Rumps house or so. Maybe we'll also get something once Judith gets her update and "moves" into the house next door.

now there are basically 0 open world interactions, you are even encouraged to play through every girl's story and don't deviate or the game might break. if the game got rid of the map nothing much would change.

Well, the gams is far, far, faar from being a kinetic novel and it's totally up to the player to determin which story he choses to play and which not. The main issue right now is, to me, that the dating system and prom are missing and that as such there's no real ending to the game.

 

[APoc1]

The game certainly improved a lot since.
18.0 actually removed the biggest mess, which was Jenny's old story and her connection to Somrak. There are still elements like Debbie's bad art, the mix of old and new art for some other characters or Mia's way too short story, which are obvious problems.

The game is improving update by update and I'm personally looking forward to the point, where all of the old pre 0.16.0 assets will finally be gone for good.

For some reason I don't recall Somrak / Jenny connection, It's possible that even though I have 0.17.5 that the first version I actually played was 0.18.0, I have both files on my HDD and it looks like the creation dates are very close for those files.(meaning I Dl'd 17.5 and sat on it for a while then 18.0 came and that was the one I actually played) Kind of makes me curious now .

I also see the Art inconsistencies but knowing they are getting replaced makes it so I can look past them. I for sure want more Mia , her story line is truncated to be sure. The story certainly isn't what I would call a masterpiece but it is better than 3/4 of the games available in the Patreon / amateur game Dev world.
I actually got a lot of laughs with all the side characters Rump , Kim and Keeves , yeah the story could have found other ways to fill and move the plot line along. I am still a fan despite the length of time this tech update is taking , but for me not having been on the ground floor the overall Dev time is not as big a deal as you guys that have been here since the beginning. I can totally understand the frustration after having to wait for 7 years and still not be close to seeing the end of the routs for all the girls.
Two cents and all that....

 

[j4yj4m]

For some reason I don't recall Somrak / Jenny connection, It's possible that even though I have 0.17.5 that the first version I actually played was 0.18.0, I have both files on my HDD and it looks like the creation dates are very close for those files.(meaning I Dl'd 17.5 and sat on it for a while then 18.0 came and that was the one I actually played) Kind of makes me curious now .

Back then you could only get the panties for Somrak from Jenny, which means you had to play her story (until close to the end actually) to advance anything that required a bit more dex. On top of that, it was almost impossible to cheat dex, as it would usually mess up her story.

Of course it wouldn't have mattered, if you played Jenny's story first.

Then again, the story itself was pretty bad, even without the whole panties thing. It was little more than earning money from Diane to buy sex toys for Jenny or to get her panties - next to sneaking into the shower/her bed at random times, without any indication as to why MC would actually do that.

I actually got a lot of laughs with all the side characters Rump , Kim and Keeves , yeah the story could have found other ways to fill and move the plot line along.

I'm torn about these characters.
I actually really like Rump as the sleazy major character and he works really well, even if people have no idea who Donald Trump actually is. The same is kinda true for Raz and a lesser degree Kim - I don't mind them at all.

When it comes to Father Keeves on the other hand, it's the total opposite. I feel you really have to know quite a few of Reeves works to get what he's talking about, which is something they shouldn't have done. But maybe that's just me.

 

[itsyeboii]

Am I the only one who finds it creepy that female characters that are obviously based on real life women, get sexualized? Like, just make original characters man, you can draw literally anything else but choose to draw real life women without their consent. It's weird.

 

[j4yj4m]

Am I the only one who finds it creepy that female characters that are obviously based on real life women, get sexualized? Like, just make original characters man, you can draw literally anything else but choose to draw real life women without their consent. It's weird.

I mean, there are two types of real life female characters in the game. Those who agreed and allowed DC to use their character and those who are famous enough that they'd likely have to tolerate it on this level - the ones which were in between (like pureruby) have already been removed. Ultimately the internet is full of R34 stuff and it's not like we are talking about some hyper realistic CGs or even deep fakes, but about drawn art, where especially the bodies are indeed pretty much arbitrary.

By that measure there'd be quite a few games which are based on real actresses/actors or so and you wouldn't be able to play, let's say, Witch Trainer.

So I'd probably agree if he'd actually use random people from the street or so without consent, but I don't really care once we are talking about celebrities, etc.

 

[itsyeboii]

and those who are famous enough that they'd likely have to tolerate it on this level - the ones which were in between (like pureruby) have already been removed. Ultimately the internet is full of R34 stuff and it's not like we are talking about some hyper realistic CGs or even deep fakes, but about drawn art, where especially the bodies are indeed pretty much arbitrary.

By that measure there'd be quite a few games which are based on real actresses/actors or so and you wouldn't be able to play, let's say, Witch Trainer.

I'm not arguing that Summertime Saga is the only game that does it or that it does it in the worst way. I'm asking if I'm the only one who finds it creepy. He can draw literally anything else but chooses to draw IRL women to put in his porn game without their consent/knowledge, I'm going to be honest I never thought of it that way either, but it's blatant objectification.

 

[j4yj4m]

I'm not arguing that Summertime Saga is the only game that does it or that it does it in the worst way. I'm asking if I'm the only one who finds it creepy. He can draw literally anything else but chooses to draw IRL women to put in his porn game without their consent/knowledge, I'm going to be honest I never thought of it that way either, but it's blatant objectification.

I'd indeed argue that, once someone has reached a certain level fame he/she will have to live with that to some degree. It's certainly one of the downsides of fame.

So as I sad, I'd totally agree with you if we are talking about random people, but I'd differentiate once we are talking about real celebrities. I'm sure that - let's say - Emma Watson, Jennifer Lopez or - to take male examples - the guys from BTS, are well aware that thousands of girls/guys are having fun thinking about them on a daily base - adding another porn game into the mix doesn't matter in my opinion.

 

[APoc1]

I'm torn about these characters.
I actually really like Rump as the sleazy major character and he works really well, even if people have no idea who Donald Trump actually is. The same is kinda true for Raz and a lesser degree Kim - I don't mind them at all.

When it comes to Father Keeves on the other hand, it's the total opposite. I feel you really have to know quite a few of Reeves works to get what he's talking about, which is something they shouldn't have done. But maybe that's just me.

Best as I can tell with Keeves is there are two movie franchises you would need some familiarity with Bill and Ted's excellent adventure and John Wick most if not all the gimmicks used are from those two shows maybe throw a little Matrix in I suppose , actually I will try and pay more attention and see if there are more. All of those shows were hits internationally , except maybe Bill and Ted to a lesser degree. As far as the T-Rumps they are all famous for being very similar to there portrayals and of course the sexual content does not count there because no one really knows that. Sure there are rumors but that's just what they are except with the Ron his exploits are a little more than rumors I would say (lawsuits ...). Kim that portrayal is not a stretch the megalomaniac dictators personality is an easy one to parrot and be near the truth.

Am I the only one who finds it creepy that female characters that are obviously based on real life women, get sexualized? Like, just make original characters man, you can draw literally anything else but choose to draw real life women without their consent. It's weird.

No not really. I am bothered a little by that as well. At the end of the day though almost all famous people have to put up with parodies of them selves in art and many over the years have been used in sexually explicit art. Is it right prolly not but it is the way it is.
DC is not breaking ground here in this regard. Sure he could have chose to do it differently but I guess he was trying to be edgy by including some recent real life events in a sex game so yeah sex with these woman or if this game would have been aimed at the Gay man audience sex with the Ron ~APoc shudders~

 

[Xupuzulla]

My only problem with DC using famous people is that is going to make the game age like milk at one point.
Trump already is old news if you dont care about politics...

 

[MurkyTurtle]

I'd indeed argue that, once someone has reached a certain level fame he/she will have to live with that to some degree. It's certainly one of the downsides of fame.

So as I sad, I'd totally agree with you if we are talking about random people, but I'd differentiate once we are talking about real celebrities. I'm sure that - let's say - Emma Watson, Jennifer Lopez (or to take male examples the guys from BTS) are well aware that thousands of girls/guys are having fun thinking about them on a daily base - adding another porn game into the mix doesn't matter in my opinion.

"You're popular, you just have to deal with it" is a really shitty place to set your moral bar. Where exactly is the line for "celebrity"? Total number of followers on Instagram? Lifetime box office sales? Number of covers made on tabloids? It's not a good place to go exploring.

It's still a little creepy, and more to the point it's lazy. Why bother to develop an actual character with an actual personality when you can just make a cheap caricature of a real-life person that somebody already fantasizes about boning? Just throw on a loose stereotype of some small parts of their public personas and then turn them into a slut. It's why so many adult games suck and I wish devs would try to do better. Roxxy and Eve are immeasurably better than the Rump women for this exact reason.

 

[itsyeboii]

I'd indeed argue that, once someone has reached a certain level fame he/she will have to live with that to some degree. It's certainly one of the downsides of fame.

So as I sad, I'd totally agree with you if we are talking about random people, but I'd differentiate once we are talking about real celebrities. I'm sure that - let's say - Emma Watson or Jennifer Lopez are well aware that thousands of dudes are having a wank thinking about them on a daily base - adding another porn game into the mix doesn't matter in my opinion.

Yeah they're going to have to live with it because it's inevitable, they're a public figure and ordinary people are not, I get that. That absolutely does not mean it isn't messed up to sexualize them without their consent, they're humans just like you and me. Acting as if it's okay to sexualize someone without their consent because they're a public figure is, again, blatant objectification of a person.

Fantasizing about and producing porn about someone are also two completely different things.

 

[Count Morado]

My only problem with DC using famous people is that is going to make the game age like milk at one point.
Trump already is old news if you dont care about politics...

The Rump character is a classic comedia dell arte archetype - basically a pantaloon/pantalone - whether a person cares about politics or not. As for Trump being old news, that's yet to be determined IRL.

 

[j4yj4m]

"You're popular, you just have to deal with it" is a really shitty place to set your moral bar. Where exactly is the line for "celebrity"? Total number of followers on Instagram? Lifetime box office sales? Number of covers made on tabloids? It's not a good place to go exploring.

A pretty good disctinction is simply the fact that you won't have to ask whether someone is popular enough to be covered. It's pretty simple in my opinion.
I don't want to start moral discussion in this place, it's just how things are...

It's still a little creepy, and more to the point it's lazy. Why bother to develop an actual character with an actual personality when you can just make a cheap caricature of a real-life person that somebody already fantasizes about boning? Just throw on a loose stereotype of some small parts of their public personas and then turn them into a slut. It's why so many adult games suck and I wish people would try to do better.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, at least not when it comes to SS. None of these celebtriy character is special in any way and no story depends on any of them. You could switch them out randomly, change a few lines of dialog and nobody would have noticed.

Fantasizing about and producing porn about someone are also two completely different things.

While it's true that the depiction is one step further, I doubt it matters that much to those concerned. The act of objectivation is essentially the same, no matter whether it happens in someone's head or is depicted on a screen.
Edit: In this case I'm talking about those who know, what's happening in the mind of their fans...

 

[APoc1]

I think it's a forest from the tree's type situation famous or non famous women. Women in general as a whole in sex games and porn are objectified , so if that really bothers a person then maybe porn and porn games is just not for that person... Is it wrong sure. Is it going to change not likely anytime soon. I mean it has been going on as long as art has been in existence.

 

[itsyeboii]

No not really. I am bothered a little by that as well. At the end of the day though almost all famous people have to put up with parodies of them selves in art and many over the years have been used in sexually explicit art. Is it right prolly not but it is the way it is.
DC is not breaking ground here in this regard. Sure he could have chose to do it differently but I guess he was trying to be edgy by including some recent real life events in a sex game so yeah sex with these woman or if this game would have been aimed at the Gay man audience sex with the Ron ~APoc shudders~

Again though, that's not an argument as to why it would be okay to sexualize them without consent, I know what you're saying it's inevitable for public figures to be used like that, but it's still a bad thing nonetheless. And I know Summertime Saga isn't the first nor the worst to do this, but this is a thread about SS and it has IRL women in them.

"You're popular, you just have to deal with it" is a really shitty place to set your moral bar. Where exactly is the line for "celebrity"? Total number of followers on Instagram? Lifetime box office sales? Number of covers made on tabloids? It's not a good place to go exploring.

It's still a little creepy, and more to the point it's lazy. Why bother to develop an actual character with an actual personality when you can just make a cheap caricature of a real-life person that somebody already fantasizes about boning? Just throw on a loose stereotype of some small parts of their public personas and then turn them into a slut. It's why so many adult games suck and I wish devs would try to do better. Roxxy and Eve are immeasurably better than the Rump women for this exact reason.

Also good points, didn't think people would agree with me tbh.

The Rump character is a classic comedia dell arte archetype - basically a pantaloon/pantalone - whether a person cares about politics or not.

Yeah that's why I only mentioned female IRL characters because they are actually being used for sexual gratification. I couldn't care less about copyright infringement or if people are being made fun of, that falls into fair use/free speech and is pretty harmless.