- Jul 26, 2018
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answer is lazyness, he likes to milk patreons.
Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5258] [Kompas Productions]
- Thread starter Muff Diver
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- Aug 12, 2018
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spend some more time there and you'll understand. you don't exactly need a galaxy brain to figure out why hand drawn 2D games take more time than just using pre made gobbos ripped straight out of daz in your low effort linear 3D game.
i guess it's that time of the year again
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- Nov 24, 2017
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- May 14, 2017
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Doesn't matter, and you're wasting everyones time discussiong it here.
Two reasons. First, Summertime Saga is, primarily, drawn by one person. Every single piece of work needed to be done for each update is tied to the artwork of that one person. As a result the work is slower since it's more time intensive than 3D modeling is even if you build the models entirely from scratch. Summertime Saga is the type of project that will quite simply take more time than others.
Second, the larger a Patreon, the less motivation to do things quickly. It's not necessarily laziness, but would you rush to get things done ASAP if you had a bunch of people giving you $614,316 a year before Patreon's cut and taxes? No, no you wouldn't. As a result DC isn't motivated to get things out at a standard clip. Smaller Patreons are motivated to get projects out at a faster rate since they need to give people a reason to subscribe. Virtually every game that takes money from Patreon and other similar services does this. Updates come quickly early on and the bigger and more successful they get the slower and less content rich those updates become.
- Sep 17, 2018
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Edit: replaced "why" with "while", sorry.
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- Feb 4, 2017
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Not to piss on your roof but most 3D games here just use models that were made by other people.
- Sep 17, 2018
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I don't care who stole a model from who, or who is just re-using pre-defined models. The point is that if you have a model ready in 3D, it is a trivial task to produce hundreds of images without having to draw a single line by hand. Even changing perspective to have another view on the same scene comes without extra costs. Animations come for free as well, everything the tool supports. Totally different from drawing 2D images.
As a result, 2D artists are typically more engaged in story. So if you want a decent story, in my opinion you would most likely get in in a 2D game.
Of course, there are some good 3D games as well (e.g. Harem Hotel), and a whole lot of bad 2D games. But out of the ten games worth playing I ever played, only two were 3D games.
- Oct 1, 2017
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You would "sign" my theory because it's not a theory. It's a fact. Animation is much, much easier with and quicker with 3D models. With animation you have to draw each pose if you're going the 2D route, whereas with animation most of what you have to do is rig the model for animation and then pose and key frame. The most time consuming aspect of animating with 3D models is the rendering process. There's a reason 3D replaced 2D in animated films.
The second part isn't a theory either. It's based on empirical evidence.
- Sep 17, 2018
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That's pretty much what I wrote as well (apart from the fact that we both disagree on your last sentence).
Edit: I made a stupid mistake in my statement that you quoted. Corrected the original post to make clear what I meant, sorry for that.
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- Sep 17, 2018
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- Sep 17, 2018
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How could I miss that. You clearly convinced me -- with your first post even. Welcome to the forum.
Stupid is the question, because rendered 3D cannot be compared to 2D hand-drawn art, as already explained in the several recent posts. Stupid is the anwer about DC milking his patrons because the game is free. No milking here. Whoever supports DC, so it appears to me, is pretty satisfied with the work he provides.
- Jun 17, 2018
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Haters gonna hate. Let them hate the game and the creator. Game is free, you don't pay or do anything to get the game and yet still complain. Get a life. (These words are not towards you, friend)
- Jun 19, 2017
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10k is certainly too low. After all he employs 6 people next to himself and as far as I'm aware all of those live in western europe and north america, so he'll have to pay decent hourly wages. The last official and content related patreon funding goal was set at ~25k and I'd guess that's what's needed to keep the lights on with this team.
Yeah, there are many games out there and the initial flash is huge. But after some time you'll see that quite a of that 3D art in combination with bad stories becomes somewhat boring and you'll start searching for either creative games or different concepts.
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No, but that means that anybody who isn't happy can just quit paying and still get the game basically right after release. So it's not like other games where devs actually sell their game by granting very early access for huge sums of money. I hope you see the difference.
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- Apr 10, 2017
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I'd say there is a greater chance of being struck by lightning. This game isn't even finished yet. 3D would require tons of new assets and time that would take away from the current dev time (assuming he was to do it himself).
The only other way would be for him to outsource it and that seems like a waste of money.
Compared to low effort 2D games?
You keep sounding so naive and it shows when you imply that 3d doesnt take its time and skills to do it and that in 2d art you can also reuse certain assests to save time and money. The game takes allways an aditional week so it gets another month of patreon ill call that milking the fans, also using the excuse that the game is free so you cant complain is very tiresome and doesnt excuse how lacking certain updates have been(diane)
And just because certain people like to juat cover their ears, eyes about certain problems but not their mouth to critize any opinion against the game(like calling them stupid) doesnt really mean anything
- Apr 10, 2017
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There are tons of people on the forum who don't understand 3D art can be time consuming and just as much work if not more than types of 2D art. Sloppy work in any medium can be done fast. Likewise, well done art work in any media takes time and effort.
- Jun 19, 2017
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Well, those are pretty small numbers at the moment. I meant like playing for a year or more. You'll start to see many characters, items, etc. reappear. At least for me a "limit" was reached once the same character/model started to appear in two games I really enjoyed at the time (Dreams of Desire and "The Gift" in that case, but I could name quite a few more) and when there was a flood of honey select games. Of course there are great 3D games but 2D games are often a bit more unique by default.
Edit: I still play and try quite a few games but I certainly became picky and will drop stuff once the story or the art is too generic.
I guess the point many people actually want to make is scalabilty. With 3D art it is possible to have several people working on that kind of posing/etc. once the basics are there and once there's some kind of basic coordination, whereas that's way harder for 2D. There you'd have to go really big and set up a bigger team of artists which is highly supervised to achieve the consistency that would be needed.
Next to that it's of course true that most 3D games simply aren't that good and that it happens, that people name the next best 3D game with frequent updates, which then uses more or less standard models and the most basic story, backgrounds, etc. one can imagine.
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