Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5258] [Kompas Productions]

[j4yj4m]

Am I the only one who finds it creepy that female characters that are obviously based on real life women, get sexualized? Like, just make original characters man, you can draw literally anything else but choose to draw real life women without their consent. It's weird.

I mean, there are two types of real life female characters in the game. Those who agreed and allowed DC to use their character and those who are famous enough that they'd likely have to tolerate it on this level - the ones which were in between (like pureruby) have already been removed. Ultimately the internet is full of R34 stuff and it's not like we are talking about some hyper realistic CGs or even deep fakes, but about drawn art, where especially the bodies are indeed pretty much arbitrary.

By that measure there'd be quite a few games which are based on real actresses/actors or so and you wouldn't be able to play, let's say, Witch Trainer.

So I'd probably agree if he'd actually use random people from the street or so without consent, but I don't really care once we are talking about celebrities, etc.

 

[itsyeboii]

and those who are famous enough that they'd likely have to tolerate it on this level - the ones which were in between (like pureruby) have already been removed. Ultimately the internet is full of R34 stuff and it's not like we are talking about some hyper realistic CGs or even deep fakes, but about drawn art, where especially the bodies are indeed pretty much arbitrary.

By that measure there'd be quite a few games which are based on real actresses/actors or so and you wouldn't be able to play, let's say, Witch Trainer.

I'm not arguing that Summertime Saga is the only game that does it or that it does it in the worst way. I'm asking if I'm the only one who finds it creepy. He can draw literally anything else but chooses to draw IRL women to put in his porn game without their consent/knowledge, I'm going to be honest I never thought of it that way either, but it's blatant objectification.

 

[j4yj4m]

I'm not arguing that Summertime Saga is the only game that does it or that it does it in the worst way. I'm asking if I'm the only one who finds it creepy. He can draw literally anything else but chooses to draw IRL women to put in his porn game without their consent/knowledge, I'm going to be honest I never thought of it that way either, but it's blatant objectification.

I'd indeed argue that, once someone has reached a certain level fame he/she will have to live with that to some degree. It's certainly one of the downsides of fame.

So as I sad, I'd totally agree with you if we are talking about random people, but I'd differentiate once we are talking about real celebrities. I'm sure that - let's say - Emma Watson, Jennifer Lopez or - to take male examples - the guys from BTS, are well aware that thousands of girls/guys are having fun thinking about them on a daily base - adding another porn game into the mix doesn't matter in my opinion.

 

[APoc1]

I'm torn about these characters.
I actually really like Rump as the sleazy major character and he works really well, even if people have no idea who Donald Trump actually is. The same is kinda true for Raz and a lesser degree Kim - I don't mind them at all.

When it comes to Father Keeves on the other hand, it's the total opposite. I feel you really have to know quite a few of Reeves works to get what he's talking about, which is something they shouldn't have done. But maybe that's just me.

Best as I can tell with Keeves is there are two movie franchises you would need some familiarity with Bill and Ted's excellent adventure and John Wick most if not all the gimmicks used are from those two shows maybe throw a little Matrix in I suppose , actually I will try and pay more attention and see if there are more. All of those shows were hits internationally , except maybe Bill and Ted to a lesser degree. As far as the T-Rumps they are all famous for being very similar to there portrayals and of course the sexual content does not count there because no one really knows that. Sure there are rumors but that's just what they are except with the Ron his exploits are a little more than rumors I would say (lawsuits ...). Kim that portrayal is not a stretch the megalomaniac dictators personality is an easy one to parrot and be near the truth.

Am I the only one who finds it creepy that female characters that are obviously based on real life women, get sexualized? Like, just make original characters man, you can draw literally anything else but choose to draw real life women without their consent. It's weird.

No not really. I am bothered a little by that as well. At the end of the day though almost all famous people have to put up with parodies of them selves in art and many over the years have been used in sexually explicit art. Is it right prolly not but it is the way it is.
DC is not breaking ground here in this regard. Sure he could have chose to do it differently but I guess he was trying to be edgy by including some recent real life events in a sex game so yeah sex with these woman or if this game would have been aimed at the Gay man audience sex with the Ron ~APoc shudders~

 

[Xupuzulla]

My only problem with DC using famous people is that is going to make the game age like milk at one point.
Trump already is old news if you dont care about politics...

 

[MurkyTurtle]

I'd indeed argue that, once someone has reached a certain level fame he/she will have to live with that to some degree. It's certainly one of the downsides of fame.

So as I sad, I'd totally agree with you if we are talking about random people, but I'd differentiate once we are talking about real celebrities. I'm sure that - let's say - Emma Watson, Jennifer Lopez (or to take male examples the guys from BTS) are well aware that thousands of girls/guys are having fun thinking about them on a daily base - adding another porn game into the mix doesn't matter in my opinion.

"You're popular, you just have to deal with it" is a really shitty place to set your moral bar. Where exactly is the line for "celebrity"? Total number of followers on Instagram? Lifetime box office sales? Number of covers made on tabloids? It's not a good place to go exploring.

It's still a little creepy, and more to the point it's lazy. Why bother to develop an actual character with an actual personality when you can just make a cheap caricature of a real-life person that somebody already fantasizes about boning? Just throw on a loose stereotype of some small parts of their public personas and then turn them into a slut. It's why so many adult games suck and I wish devs would try to do better. Roxxy and Eve are immeasurably better than the Rump women for this exact reason.

 

[itsyeboii]

I'd indeed argue that, once someone has reached a certain level fame he/she will have to live with that to some degree. It's certainly one of the downsides of fame.

So as I sad, I'd totally agree with you if we are talking about random people, but I'd differentiate once we are talking about real celebrities. I'm sure that - let's say - Emma Watson or Jennifer Lopez are well aware that thousands of dudes are having a wank thinking about them on a daily base - adding another porn game into the mix doesn't matter in my opinion.

Yeah they're going to have to live with it because it's inevitable, they're a public figure and ordinary people are not, I get that. That absolutely does not mean it isn't messed up to sexualize them without their consent, they're humans just like you and me. Acting as if it's okay to sexualize someone without their consent because they're a public figure is, again, blatant objectification of a person.

Fantasizing about and producing porn about someone are also two completely different things.

 

[Count Morado]

My only problem with DC using famous people is that is going to make the game age like milk at one point.
Trump already is old news if you dont care about politics...

The Rump character is a classic comedia dell arte archetype - basically a pantaloon/pantalone - whether a person cares about politics or not. As for Trump being old news, that's yet to be determined IRL.

 

[j4yj4m]

"You're popular, you just have to deal with it" is a really shitty place to set your moral bar. Where exactly is the line for "celebrity"? Total number of followers on Instagram? Lifetime box office sales? Number of covers made on tabloids? It's not a good place to go exploring.

A pretty good disctinction is simply the fact that you won't have to ask whether someone is popular enough to be covered. It's pretty simple in my opinion.
I don't want to start moral discussion in this place, it's just how things are...

It's still a little creepy, and more to the point it's lazy. Why bother to develop an actual character with an actual personality when you can just make a cheap caricature of a real-life person that somebody already fantasizes about boning? Just throw on a loose stereotype of some small parts of their public personas and then turn them into a slut. It's why so many adult games suck and I wish people would try to do better.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, at least not when it comes to SS. None of these celebtriy character is special in any way and no story depends on any of them. You could switch them out randomly, change a few lines of dialog and nobody would have noticed.

Fantasizing about and producing porn about someone are also two completely different things.

While it's true that the depiction is one step further, I doubt it matters that much to those concerned. The act of objectivation is essentially the same, no matter whether it happens in someone's head or is depicted on a screen.
Edit: In this case I'm talking about those who know, what's happening in the mind of their fans...

 

[APoc1]

I think it's a forest from the tree's type situation famous or non famous women. Women in general as a whole in sex games and porn are objectified , so if that really bothers a person then maybe porn and porn games is just not for that person... Is it wrong sure. Is it going to change not likely anytime soon. I mean it has been going on as long as art has been in existence.

 

[itsyeboii]

No not really. I am bothered a little by that as well. At the end of the day though almost all famous people have to put up with parodies of them selves in art and many over the years have been used in sexually explicit art. Is it right prolly not but it is the way it is.
DC is not breaking ground here in this regard. Sure he could have chose to do it differently but I guess he was trying to be edgy by including some recent real life events in a sex game so yeah sex with these woman or if this game would have been aimed at the Gay man audience sex with the Ron ~APoc shudders~

Again though, that's not an argument as to why it would be okay to sexualize them without consent, I know what you're saying it's inevitable for public figures to be used like that, but it's still a bad thing nonetheless. And I know Summertime Saga isn't the first nor the worst to do this, but this is a thread about SS and it has IRL women in them.

"You're popular, you just have to deal with it" is a really shitty place to set your moral bar. Where exactly is the line for "celebrity"? Total number of followers on Instagram? Lifetime box office sales? Number of covers made on tabloids? It's not a good place to go exploring.

It's still a little creepy, and more to the point it's lazy. Why bother to develop an actual character with an actual personality when you can just make a cheap caricature of a real-life person that somebody already fantasizes about boning? Just throw on a loose stereotype of some small parts of their public personas and then turn them into a slut. It's why so many adult games suck and I wish devs would try to do better. Roxxy and Eve are immeasurably better than the Rump women for this exact reason.

Also good points, didn't think people would agree with me tbh.

The Rump character is a classic comedia dell arte archetype - basically a pantaloon/pantalone - whether a person cares about politics or not.

Yeah that's why I only mentioned female IRL characters because they are actually being used for sexual gratification. I couldn't care less about copyright infringement or if people are being made fun of, that falls into fair use/free speech and is pretty harmless.

 

[j4yj4m]

Women in general as a whole in sex games and porn are objectified , so if that really bothers a person then maybe porn and porn games is just not for that person... Is it wrong sure. Is it going to change not likely anytime soon. I mean it has been going on as long as art has been in existence.

When you think about it, in case of these celebrities we at least know who they are. Once we are talking about other characters, it may very well possible that Dev X has taken some actual real life inspiration of somebody who isn't even remotely aware that she's suddenly the star of some popular porn game. There's no way to know.

So I'd actually agree that it's a bit of a futile thought in this space. People who really care about this topic, should probably be really carefully about what kind of porn they are consuming and to make sure that every bit of imigary is based on consent.

 

[itsyeboii]

I think it's a forest from the tree's type situation famous or non famous women. Women in general as a whole in sex games and porn are objectified , so if that really bothers a person then maybe porn and porn games is just not for that person... Is it wrong sure. Is it going to change not likely anytime soon. I mean it has been going on as long as art has been in existence.

Sexualization isn't anything bad in and of itself. It's consent that is the important detail that people who consume porn often forget. You can draw a made up character or someone who consents to it nude and jack off to it all you want, but when you start drawing people nude and put them in sexual positions without their knowledge/consent is when it becomes creepy and borderline illegal.

 

[itsyeboii]

When you think about it, in case of these celebrities we at least know who they are. Once we are talking about other characters, it may very well possible that Dev X has taken some actual real life inspiration of somebody who isn't even remotely aware that she's suddenly the star of some popular porn game. There's no way to know.

So I'd actually agree that it's a bit of a futile thought in this space. People who really care about this topic, should probably be really carefully about what kind of porn they are consuming and to make sure that every bit of imigary is based on consent.

That's some serious mental gymnastics.

 

[APoc1]

Again though, that's not an argument as to why it would be okay to sexualize them without consent, I know what you're saying it's inevitable for public figures to be used like that, but it's still a bad thing nonetheless. And I know Summertime Saga isn't the first nor the worst to do this, but this is a thread about SS

I was not trying to justify it but I am pragmatic in what reality is currently. I am also bothered a little by it, but more in a general sense of how woman as a whole are objectified in porn. On the other hand I am a complex individual and I find it hot in some circumstances.

In the case of SS at least our MC seems to care for all the babes he bangs , he's not into humiliation and rape he does kind of dom Melonia but for the purpose of the story and the way she is in the story it seems to fit.. I see your point and I agree to a certain extent but what would you have us all do?

 

[j4yj4m]

Again though, that's not an argument as to why it would be okay to sexualize them without consent, I know what you're saying it's inevitable for public figures to be used like that, but it's still a bad thing nonetheless. And I know Summertime Saga isn't the first nor the worst to do this, but this is a thread about SS and it has IRL women in them.

If DC wasn't transparent about, we wouldn't know that for example Micoe, Nadya, Jospehine, Anna and Kassy are real fans and have agreed to be part of the game/to have lewds, while let's say Roxxy is 100% fictional. If DC was an asshole he may have added these same girls without their consent and nobody of us would have know... that's the scale of the problem with most games, which are realisitic enough to actually depict somebody.

That's some serious mental gymnastics.

Is it really? I think it's a topic where you either really care enough to not consume most of this stuff or where you ignore it. Anything beyond that is kinda futile.

 

[itsyeboii]

I was not trying to justify it but I am pragmatic in what reality is currently. I am also bothered a little by it, but more in a general sense of how woman as a whole are objectified in porn. On the other hand I am a complex individual and I find it hot in some circumstances.

In the case of SS at least our MC seems to care for all the babes he bangs , he's not into humiliation and rape he does kind of dom Melonia but for the purpose of the story and the way she is in the story it seems to fit.. I see your point and I agree to a certain extent but what would you have us all do?

Nothing, I just wish DC would've made a different choice.

 

[McSlut]

Well I am sorry you feel this way. Honestly, the one thing that always kept me liking this game is the story. It just makes the difference between Summertime Saga and the majority of Meet-and-Fuck games here.

i was just talking about the main story. i still enjoy the story for jenny, roxxy, diane and the teachers. i was a little disappointed with the eve story because it got a little too sappy for my taste and i liked her OG personality more than the sad lonely emo girl we ended up with but grace made up for that for me.. but yeah i thought the main story was just awful, i've never read about anyone who legit praised the main story of this game

 

[itsyeboii]

If DC wasn't transparent about, we wouldn't know that for example Micoe, Nadya, Jospehine, Anna and Kassy are real fans and have agreed to be part of the game/to have lewds, while let's say Roxxy is 100% fictional. If DC was an asshole he may have added these same girls without their consent and nobody of us would have know... that's the scale of the problem with most games, which are realisitic enough to actually depict somebody.

I see what you're saying, but that's a different avenue because we simply can't predict or know everyone on the planet. If you know someone is put in a porn game without knowing/allowing, then you recognize it. When a character is seemingly random but turns out to be based on real person, then you couldn't have known in the first place.
EDIT: this goes for celebs you don't know as well, I don't know all celebs so I won't recognize all of them. It's simply up to the creators to just stop using people.

I'm also not saying you're bad for still jerking it to Melonia, I probably will too because I'm a fucking chimp, but I do think we need to at least recognize that it's not okay to put people in sexual positions without their consent. And I would like to see people draw/render/animate original or fictional characters instead of using someone's likeness.

 

[APoc1]

Sexualization isn't anything bad in and of itself. It's consent that is the important detail that people who consume porn often forget. You can draw a made up character or someone who consents to it nude and jack off to it all you want, but when you start drawing people nude and put them in sexual positions without their knowledge/consent is when it becomes creepy and borderline illegal.

Creepy sure could be, legality is another ball of wax. In America you don't have to change much to evade copyright it may be different in the EU but DC is in America.

As far as people who consume porn , it's near impossible to determine if consent was given unless the laws change and they stop letting porn being produced with out signed documents and even then coercion can and often is used.

What your pointing to is a deep issue humanity has been wrestling with for ages , but as it is with a great many injustices as long as there is money to be made the power structures of the world are likely not going to get in the way of that unless there is a strong united front among the non ruling classes.