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Any of you ever considered that big games worth of decade of contribution can be a simple money laundering front to some small to mid level operations? Just thinking out loud. Or any other one that shows high revenue.
 

Badjourasmix

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Any of you ever considered that big games worth of decade of contribution can be a simple money laundering front to some small to mid level operations? Just thinking out loud. Or any other one that shows high revenue.
Nah, that is just crazy conspiracy theories. I still think that he knew when he made the poll about the tech update, that there was no way he would finish it in just 9 months but overall the dude is just incompetent at his job. Years ago when I still watched his streams I remember him talking about how he doesn't like to be in charge of projects and stuff like that.
 

lamba

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Shitty as it is that the dude took something that was almost done and added years development time, it's not a reboot or rework or anything else, and the version numbers don't go backwards just because you changed something.
Continuous additions is objectively the 'correct' business model for an indie dev. Statistically the majority of games are not successful. You'd have to be an idiot to refuse continued contributions for a game you made just because it's technically 'done' when you could always bolt on more content. I'd remind everyone that Dwarf Fortress is nearly 20 years old. Unreal World has been in continuous development since 1992.

Don't know what else to tell you other than that you already know how the story ends. Dude fucks every woman in town, he gets the money he needs for college, he solves the mystery of his father's death. Riveting.
 

lamba

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I remember what happened to Breeding Season. A game that made around $500K in revenue.
Breeding Season fell apart because of an insanely greedy artist and a team lead that was somewhat ignorant of exactly how contracts work and foolishly made a contract employee an equal partner on the project.

Which meant said artist could continue collecting a paycheck and, say, work on another project entirely. And just keep saying, "Oh yeah, sorry for the delays, life got in the way!" for as long as it keeps working.

And then claim ownership of all art they'd made and demand it be removed because it is, technically, their property. Which is exactly why you don't let your contract artists retain ownership of their art. Functionally killing the original project because they just lost 90% of their art and the main reason anyone was contributing to the project in the first place so that he could work on Cloud Meadow.

A game that was- apparently- roughly identical. Because the artist guessed- correctly- that the Breeding Season team wouldn't have the finances to pursue a lawsuit against them.

Comparing SS to BS doesn't really work because the project lead is also it's chief artist and writer and we already know they could continue working on the project because that's how it got started.

Years ago when I still watched his streams I remember him talking about how he doesn't like to be in charge of projects and stuff like that.
And yet people keep contributing.
 
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Continuous additions is objectively the 'correct' business model for an indie dev. Statistically the majority of games are not successful. You'd have to be an idiot to refuse continued contributions for a game you made just because it's technically 'done' when you could always bolt on more content. I'd remind everyone that Dwarf Fortress is nearly 20 years old. Unreal World has been in continuous development since 1992.

Don't know what else to tell you other than that you already know how the story ends. Dude fucks every woman in town, he gets the money he needs for college, he solves the mystery of his father's death. Riveting.
There's this whole idea among devs and fans in the Western adult games industry that you can only make one game. I'm not sure if it's because there's a collective idiocy where a concept like "big dick guy fucks a lot of women" is a conceptual unicorn that it'd be financial suicide to ever finish the project and move on to a new one.

There's dozens if not hundreds of this precise kind of harem game that crash and burn. That's because people aren't showing up for the concept, they're showing up for a few things that Dark Cookie did as a developer. It's not like the guy is an amazing writer, his stuff is just competent in a ocean of incompetence. The protagonist is a dud, he's just a "heart of gold with a big dick and a bad haircut" dork. Each of the love interests is literally just a fetish archetype. Tsundere sister, Doting MILF, horny auntie, goth slut, alt girl, scene/emo girl, mean girl trio, horny teachers, mean & horny teachers, latino maid, office bimbos, it's all basic stuff. The couple storylines are decent and follow standard storytelling structure with the payoffs being porn scenes.

People are showing up because Dark Cookie's art is pretty damn good and he's generally a competent writer. Not fantastic, just competent. It's not like the gameplay is great. No one gives a single shit about the minigames or inventory puzzles. If DC had finished STS in 2020 and created a new project in the same vein, people would flock to it. People are loyal to creators, not projects. There's a couple devs on here that I'll look forward to whatever they do, because I like their work.

But I see it all the time. "Of course it's wise to milk this". Why? People subscribe to his patreon, they follow him. With a bare bones awareness campaign of "if you loved Summertime Saga, look up Summertime Saga 2: Summerer Saga" and people will be on board. People follow brands and creators, it's not wise to stick with one single product for 10000 years.
 

Badjourasmix

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And yet people keep contributing.
I mean it's their money lol. It's up to them if they want to keep throwing money at him for updates like this. I do agree that if there was a significant drop in subs they would probably try to release a little more content. But that is not going to happen any time soon.
 

lamba

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People are showing up because Dark Cookie's art is pretty damn good
Screenshot 2025-06-06 130416.png

Art is pretty subjective but... what?

But I see it all the time. "Of course it's wise to milk this". Why? People subscribe to his patreon, they follow him. With a bare bones awareness campaign of "if you loved Summertime Saga, look up Summertime Saga 2: Summerer Saga" and people will be on board. People follow brands and creators, it's not wise to stick with one single product for 10000 years.
Disney release cycle syndrome. To do it in reverse if you release games consistently that actively undermines your own bottom line because people stop contributing. Especially when your game is similar to the previous titles because porn games can't be too far outside the framework of a visual novel. People stopped going to see Disney movies in theater because they knew that in about three months it'd be available for rent.

And making a sequel would be even worse because now you're inherently splitting your customer base unless there's a very compelling reason to jump to the new development. In which case you get the slight variant of, "I can't believe this isn't finished!" which is, "God, why wasn't this in the last game you lazy bum."

Summertime Saga 2 would just be Summertime Saga 1 except he's spending the summer term at college so he's functionally doing the exact same stuff in the previous game but the backgrounds reflect a university. It's the same game, functionally, so there's no reason to make it.
 
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Sherengroth

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wtf modder them talking about Disney syndrome is okay to be off topic but my harmless question was too much?
 

lamba

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but my harmless question was too much?
Talking about the business practices of the devs behind SS is on topic. Without knowing what you posted, what are the odds you ignored the OP and asked about something related to gameplay? Or you asked a question that was already answered repeatedly at some point in the past 4400 pages?

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Also, complaining about moderation practices is generally frowned on. It's been a while but as I recall the mods will tell you exactly why a post was removed in the notice telling you they removed a post. They are just doing their job and considering the nature of this website they probably get paid in twigs and sticks of gum.
 
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Sherengroth

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Talking about the business practices of the devs behind SS is on topic. Without knowing what you posted, what are the odds you ignored the OP and asked about something related to gameplay? Or you asked a question that was already answered repeatedly at some point in the past 4400 pages?

View attachment 4916480

Also, complaining about moderation practices is generally frowned on. It's been a while but as I recall the mods will tell you exactly why a post was removed in the notice telling you they removed a post. They are just doing their job and considering the nature of this website they probably get paid in twigs and sticks of gum.
:mad: screw you i! asked whether or not hooking up with yourself from a alt universe was considered incest or something else and what would the repercussions be to any offspring. how is that related to business practice or about gameplay,. and why should asking questions be bad, if some has question about game crashing then they have a question about another bug they're screwed because they've already asked a question two pages ago? that's bull if its harmless and doesn't go after any one, or spam crap then nobody should care if they ask more then one question
 
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Krate97

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Not complaining since I'm not a patreon, just genuinely curious. What happened to this game? why the long time for updates? was it always like that?
 
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Comparing SS to BS doesn't really work because the project lead is also it's chief artist and writer and we already know they could continue working on the project because that's how it got started.
If someone tells you they know the story there’s no need to walk the memory lane. So if you were trying to look smart in the other ppls eyes — maybe it worked.

Comparing is very legal, guess why? Breeding season reincarnated into Cloud Meadow. At the early stages of CM, even the BS assets were re-used. Long story short, how CM is doing? lol. Those “champions of productivity”. They ended walking the same BS land mines.

Unfortunately, you cannot make adult conclusions which are — once a title undergoes the so-called tech update/reimplementation it’s the core sign of inevitable strolling into oblivion.

Here’s one more example.
Remember Eromancer with Malise and the Machine? Different title same story.

Some artists were good. While they delivered. Once the delivery stops and suckers start paying for tech updates or the slick learning a new engine — this means that the title is dead or the plan is to get double dip by dropping this on Steam.

So far, being able to deliver a title however buggy it may be and move one to a new one is the sign of a serious person.
Even ICSTOR managed to carry Mify City to a conclusion.
And the only real professional studio/artist in this area is NLT Media. They get shit done and do it in a very coherent and organized manner.
 
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View attachment 4916128

Art is pretty subjective but... what?
What a brilliant point you thought you made.


Disney release cycle syndrome. To do it in reverse if you release games consistently that actively undermines your own bottom line because people stop contributing. Especially when your game is similar to the previous titles because porn games can't be too far outside the framework of a visual novel. People stopped going to see Disney movies in theater because they knew that in about three months it'd be available for rent.

And making a sequel would be even worse because now you're inherently splitting your customer base unless there's a very compelling reason to jump to the new development. In which case you get the slight variant of, "I can't believe this isn't finished!" which is, "God, why wasn't this in the last game you lazy bum."

Summertime Saga 2 would just be Summertime Saga 1 except he's spending the summer term at college so he's functionally doing the exact same stuff in the previous game but the backgrounds reflect a university. It's the same game, functionally, so there's no reason to make it.
1. People wouldn't go to a movie in the theater forever if it never came to home media. Stuff leaves theaters because general audiences eventually stop seeing it in amounts that justify occupying screen time. That's such a goofy head-up-ass thing to assert. The home media market was carefully considered when it was a thing to hit right when audience interest waned to the critical point to drum up excitement again. Big studios wouldn't kill interest in their own theatrical releases with the home media, you have this entirely, utterly backwards.

2. I dunno what your internal world looks like, but most people don't have a hyper fixation on anything, much less porn. A lot of tittilation works on novelty. People stick around for new updates. I dunno bout you, but look around. People aren't satisfied with the same thing, they want new stuff. The novelty is the compelling reason, what are you even on about? Another head up ass thing to say.

3. My off the cuff name for a sequel is just that, off the cuff. Wanna know why I called it that? Because it's meant to get a point across, not be an actual idea for a sequel. Listen to what I'm actually saying, guy, don't hyperfixate on the verbiage. And it wouldn't split the fan base, tf you're talking about. Nobody is paying for copies of this, they're donating to his patreon.

I dunno if you personally struggle with hyperfixations or whatever, but how Dark Cookie's business model works is people specifically like his stuff. Harem shit is a dime a dozen, so why are people invested in this? They like this producer, they like his art. If he made a new thing they'd be down. How do I know this? Because that's the patreon model. That's how art patronage works- you donate to a creator you like and follow what they make. If Dark Cookie made something in the same general flavor as Summertime Saga, people would drop Summertime Saga and get on board. Any lost fans would be outliers made up for by loyalists and brand evangelists and newcomers excited for new content. I dunno what world you live in man, you've got straaaaaaange opinions.

You can reply to this, but I'm not gonna read it. I'm just correcting you. I'm not interested in debating you, I think you just need to sit down and learn stuff, there is no debate to have.
 
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What a brilliant point you thought you made.




1. People wouldn't go to a movie in the theater forever if it never came to home media. Stuff leaves theaters because general audiences eventually stop seeing it in amounts that justify occupying screen time. That's such a goofy head-up-ass thing to assert. The home media market was carefully considered when it was a thing to hit right when audience interest waned to the critical point to drum up excitement again. Big studios wouldn't kill interest in their own theatrical releases with the home media, you have this entirely, utterly backwards.

2. I dunno what your internal world looks like, but most people don't have a hyper fixation on anything, much less porn. A lot of tittilation works novelty. People stick around for new updates. I dunno bout you, but look around. People aren't satisfied with the same thing, they want new stuff. The novelty is the compelling reason, what are you even on about? Another head up ass thing to say.

3. My off the cuff name for a sequel is just that, off the cuff. Wanna know why I called it that? Because it's meant to get a point across, not be an actual idea for a sequel. Listen to what I'm actually saying, guy, don't hyperfixate on the verbiage. And it wouldn't split the fan base, tf you're talking about. Nobody is paying for copies of this, they're donating to his patreon.

I dunno if you personally struggle with hyperfixations or whatever, but how Dark Cookie's business model works is people specifically like his stuff. Harem shit is a dime a dozen, so why are people invested in this? They like this producer, they like his art. If he made a new thing they'd be down. How do I know this? Because that's the patreon model. That's how art patronage works- you donate to a creator you like and follow what they make. If Dark Cookie made something in the same general flavor as Summertime Saga, people would drop Summertime Saga and get on board. Any lost fans would be outliers made up for by loyalists and brand evangelists and newcomers excited for new content. I dunno what world you live in man, you've got straaaaaaange opinions.

You can reply to this, but I'm not gonna read it. I'm just correcting you. I'm not interested in debating you, I think you just need to sit down and learn stuff, there is no debate to have.
Guys, this motherfucker is real!!! :WeSmart:

wetjuicywetjuicywetjuicy you make waaayy to apt analysis and assessment for this forum. Literally turning it into a debate club. :geek:
 

Alucard421

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Aug 5, 2021
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If someone tells you they know the story there’s no need to walk the memory lane. So if you were trying to look smart in the other ppls eyes — maybe it worked.

Comparing is very legal, guess why? Breeding season reincarnated into Cloud Meadow. At the early stages of CM, even the BS assets were re-used. Long story short, how CM is doing? lol. Those “champions of productivity”. They ended walking the same BS land mines.

Unfortunately, you cannot make adult conclusions which are — once a title undergoes the so-called tech update/reimplementation it’s the core sign of inevitable strolling into oblivion.

Here’s one more example.
Remember Eromancer with Malise and the Machine? Different title same story.

Some artists were good. While they delivered. Once the delivery stops and suckers start paying for tech updates or the slick learning a new engine — this means that the title is dead or the plan is to get double dip by dropping this on Steam.

So far, being able to deliver a title however buggy it may be and move one to a new one is the sign of a serious person.
Even ICSTOR managed to carry Mify City to a conclusion.
And the only real professional studio/artist in this area is NLT Media. They get shit done and do it in a very coherent and organized manner.
That last sentence of yours is the most perfect example of competent work ethic.
 
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lamba

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asked whether or not hooking up with yourself from a alt universe was considered incest or something else and what would the repercussions be to any offspring. how is that related to business practice or about gameplay.
Oh, so it's completely off-topic.
if some has question about game crashing then they have a question about another bug they're screwed because they've already asked a question two pages ago?
1749247726784.png

There's a handy tool you can use to see if someone has already mentioned your problem. You can even limit it's function to the thread you're currently in. This helps cut down on spam and avoids having a subject discussed repeatedly from coming back up again.
or spam crap then nobody should care if they ask more then one question
You just admitted to posting spam.
If someone tells you they know the story there’s no need to walk the memory lane.
You say that and then you say this-
Breeding season reincarnated into Cloud Meadow.
Which is absolutely not what happened. The guy leading BS didn't realize he screwed up when he made the principal artist for the project an equal partner who owned the art for the game, so said artist kept collecting pay while working on a competitor's project and the minute he felt the gig was up he rug pulled the BS team and demanded they remove his work.

Apparently you don't remember the story because calling Cloud Meadow anything other than a work of fraud is being generous. You can't compare SS to BS because someone deliberately killed BS. And you'd have to be a fool to give anything associated with that artist money because Breeding Season wasn't even the first time he killed a project.
Remember Eromancer with Malise and the Machine? Different title same story.
MATM never even made it beyond a demo. Also doesn't work as a point of comparison. The more apt comparison is actually Caliross. Which is technically a finished game where the developer has continued accepting donations to add more content to the game. The only functional difference between Caliross and SS is maybe 4 or 5 sequences that resolve whatever unfinished plot threads still exist. Which are plots you already know the ending to. I don't know what else to tell you, there is only one of two endings for each plot thread in SS- you find out what happens to dad or not, you fund college or you don't, you spelunk the city's collective booty bunker or... you don't. Summertime Saga is 9/10ths of a functionally complete game.

My off the cuff name for a sequel is just that, off the cuff. Wanna know why I called it that? Because it's meant to get a point across, not be an actual idea for a sequel. Listen to what I'm actually saying, guy, don't hyperfixate on the verbiage. And it wouldn't split the fan base, tf you're talking about. Nobody is paying for copies of this, they're donating to his patreon.
Right, but it's actually a logical follow-up that a sequel to Summertime Saga, the game about (among other things) saving up for college would be Summertime Saga Goes To College. That is how you advance the plot while maintaining the core gameplay people like in the first place.

It doesn't actually matter where the sequel goes because a sequel to summertime saga HAS TO BE SUMMERTIME SAGA. Otherwise the entire concept doesn't work. SS2 can't be a femboy training / cooking simulator because that's completely off brand. Summertime Saga can't be an erotic horror survival / crafting / typing / RTS game because it's off-brand. Even trying it is a horrible idea- there are still people out there butt bothered that Dawn of War 2 was a departure from the design of Dawn of War 1. Game's almost 20 years old and without failure someone will complain when it comes up.

And people are donating to SS's patreon because they're content with the team's creative output. If they were not, they would stop.

People wouldn't go to a movie in the theater forever if it never came to home media. Stuff leaves theaters because general audiences eventually stop seeing it in amounts that justify occupying screen time. That's such a goofy head-up-ass thing to assert. The home media market was carefully considered when it was a thing to hit right when audience interest waned to the critical point to drum up excitement again. Big studios wouldn't kill interest in their own theatrical releases with the home media, you have this entirely, utterly backwards.
That's exactly what happened, though. Disney was forced to change up their home release system because it had become such an industrialized, rigid process that people weren't going to theaters to see the movies any more and it was getting harder and more expensive to market new theater releases because people fully expected to see it in rental stores in about three months for about a quarter of the price. It actively contributed to one of the worst flops in the company's (at the time) history.

I dunno what your internal world looks like, but most people don't have a hyper fixation on anything, much less porn. A lot of tittilation works novelty. People stick around for new updates. I dunno bout you, but look around. People aren't satisfied with the same thing, they want new stuff. The novelty is the compelling reason, what are you even on about? Another head up ass thing to say.
You say this, but we're in the SS thread. People clearly like paying for either nothing, or more of the same.

What a brilliant point you thought you made.
If you like SS's art, that's fine, but I'd encourage you to expand your boundaries a bit.

They like this producer, they like his art.
Which is what I said however many posts ago. The success of SS isn't owed to it's quality, it's owed to the fact that the developer is extremely accessible and more than happy to talk to his community.

If he made a new thing they'd be down. How do I know this? Because that's the patreon model. That's how art patronage works- you donate to a creator you like and follow what they make.
That is a gamble, and you're never entirely certain if that will actually happen. DC has absolutely no reason to risk what he has on the altar of potential future gains when people are absolutely content to pay for his current output. When it comes to finances, people tend to take the least risks and, "Man, I had a good run with that game" is a much easier position to hold than, "Man, I screwed everything up when my follow up title alienated a non-trivial chunk of my fans."

So no, DC's current business model makes perfect sense and anyone with any experience running a business would tell you as much. Or anyone in psychology. Or someone who finished a book on Game Theory.

You can reply to this, but I'm not gonna read it. I'm just correcting you. I'm not interested in debating you, I think you just need to sit down and learn stuff, there is no debate to have.
Man arguing over opinions claims he corrects other person, also claims to not want to debate.

And the only real professional studio/artist in this area is NLT Media. They get shit done and do it in a very coherent and organized manner.
Hmmm.

1749251084495.png

1749251112797.png

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

I think NLT needs to abruptly need to do an engine overhaul and tech update- their games are CGI intensive so it'd be a completely valid decision- and spend a year or three adding a trickle of new content while streaming progress and dev nights more often. Clearly DC has the correct business model. NLT over-commits on single titles and spends way too much work creating niche titles instead of something more mass-market.
 
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efthkal

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Sorry for the stupid question, which version has the latest story content: the v21.0.0 wip.6011 or the one before the tech update (v0.20.16)?
 

Snugglepuff

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Sorry for the stupid question, which version has the latest story content: the v21.0.0 wip.6011 or the one before the tech update (v0.20.16)?
Latest?
WIP.6011
However, it's far from anywhere the same amount of content or main story progression as the pre-Tech Update version.

Where the main story is basically the same up to a point, there are some differences and rewrites that you'll only notice by playing both.
Again though, 6011 isn't as far along in the main story as pre-Tech Update was.
 
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