Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.6440] [Kompas Productions]

[rentintin]

when was the last proper update we had coz i don't know if im wrong but it feels like a year ago now ?

yes

 

[MurkyTurtle]

So because you seem genuinely curious here a summery of the train wreck that's been the tech update.
First thing to know is DC's really bad at estimating things like time and workload. He thought it'd take 9 months maybe a year so when he started expanding the backgrounds he did the majority on stream which he admits slows things down a lot like 2-3 days a background slow. While this was happening the posers had nothing to do and all 5 of the ones they hired at the start left the team during this time. Then came the great re-exporting where they found that due to DC not being consistent and lazy (His words not mine.) that tons of assets were mislabeled, broken, half assed or just straight up missing. Necessitating all 15k plus assets having to be re-exported and sorted one by one re-labeled and fixed as they went, my favorite highlight as revealed on stream is they found a whole batch of Eve assets that never made it into the game in the first place because they didn't even know they had them.
Now on to the posing which is a whole other beast because the entire game has to be reposed which means that all the posing for each past update is now an individual task this is also why it's been stuck at 80% as all the content heavy routes need to be finished which is taking so long Stray the coder built an auto reposer to do a lot of heavy lifting however it's not perfect and they still have a lot to do. This is what's holding up the coding in fact the other day they finally got enough of Debbie's route done that Stray could start recoding it. So no it's not that DC's milking or scamming it's that they didn't grasp just how much work there was and that's before all the set backs.

Jesus, that is beyond catastrophic. Isn't DC supposed to be a game development veteran of several years? How the hell did he get away with being that sloppy for that long? Summertime Saga has been his full-time gig since early 2017, and even before then you'd think he'd know proper workflow and best practices. I'm astounded the current build even works as well as it does, his coders must be savants for trying to hold everything together with spit and chicken wire.

 

[BorsDeGanis]

There's plenty of criticism to be had, but the idea that DC is milking and/or scamming people out of their money needs to die. Patrons donate their money willingly and the game is free in the first place.

I think the second point is a little bit naive tbh. I mean sure, the people aren't owed anything from the devs. But also, the relationship evolves over time. Initially I think the patreon relationship is kind of like a startup; hopeful but if nothing materializes you can't really be too mad... But these long term patreon accounts with consistent development cycles more or less evolve into a service. It isn't exactly fair to call this game a startup anymore and treat it like it is immune to criticism. You have long term year long supporters who keep supporting because they are used to and come to expect semi-consistent updates and if the dev starts failing to deliver it is fair to call them out on that.

I don't think DC is milking/scamming anything, however, I also think they messed up big time and the anger is warranted.

 

[DeepSpace_Potato]

The other big question is: will DC release the tech update together with Ronda update? I mean this famous tech update should improve the whole process and art is already done. However from the roadmap I highly doubt we'll see her in this current year and if not releasing x-wallpapers won't save the boat on the long way. He could just be honest about this delay and pause patreon, others have already done that, doubt he'll in any case.

 

[Count Morado]

The other big question is: will DC release the tech update together with Ronda update?

That would delay the tech update further because while all the art might be done for the R(h)onda update - the script, posing, coding, etc definitely is not.

He could just be honest about this delay and pause patreon

Except that again makes the premise that the contributions made by subscribers are paying directly for a product. They are not. They are making patron donations to support DC in continuing his vision - whether he releases anything or not. If they are under the delusion that they are paying for a product, they - themselves - should stop contributing. It is their choice just as much, if not more so, than his. He is doing what he is expected to do per the terms of how Patreon works - if there are subscribers which are under a different impression, that is their issue, not his.

This, honestly, is not a hard topic to comprehend. Patreon subscribers, unless directed by the artist/developer/creator/whatever, are not paying for a product, a release, or anything. They are giving a financial donation to the person because they like the work that the person has been doing and hope that person will continue in the future. Like I, and many others, have said - It's not very different from the sax player outside the subway entrance who plays for free for the commuters who walk by. They can choose to throw a dollar, or two, or twenty, or a hundred into the musician's hat or not. They could choose to do that each day, each week, each month, or never. It's their choice. The sax player may decide never to come back to that corner again even if a person has donated each day for five years. The sax player owes no one anything for the money people have donated. Same with Patreon artists/developers/creators/whatever -- unless the terms are presented by that person differently.

 

[Crazymic79]

There is and old saying that I am reminded of when I see devs like this.
"A fool and his money are soon parted."

 

[rentintin]

There is and old saying that I am reminded of when I see devs like this.
"A fool and his money are soon parted."

yup. it's so common with porn games, yet people still keep paying.

 

[j4yj4m]

I'm sure this tech update will be worth the reversal of revenue growth and loss of potentiality hundreds of thousands of dollars.

It won't. By now it seems like this whole tech update (and to some degree the main story) as it happened will lose DC a massive amount of money. If he'd actually care about money, he'd have continued the trend and released updates to finish the game. That way he'd probably be making a very decent 6 figure number/month right now and could have moved on to the next project with his patrons pretty soon. And that's before we are talking about other ways of monetization.

People who claim that it's more profitable to go slow and/or milk patrons are just wrong. It may be the case for small devs who make a few thousand $ and have a real job besides that, but not for a project with such a huge audience and this much potential. In DC's case it's just a lost opportunity.

This slow development happens because DC doesn't really care about money, not because he's greedy.

Jesus, that is beyond catastrophic. Isn't DC supposed to be a game development veteran of several years? How the hell did he get away with being that sloppy for that long? Summertime Saga has been his full-time gig since early 2017, and even before then you'd think he'd know proper workflow and best practices. I'm astounded the current build even works as well as it does, his coders must be savants for trying to hold everything together with spit and chicken wire.

Hm? DC certainly is a veteran artist but that's it. We've been following the game long enough to know that DC has had 4 different coders (including himself intintially) by now and that it's has indeed been more about trying to keep the game playable than actually having a real concept behind it. I still recal the times when every release was buggy (as hell) and saves weren't even compatible in theory. The tech update is supposed to change that - we'll see.

When it comes to schedules and workflows? I think the game would be quite a bit worse if DC couldn't just add stuff as he sees fit in general. A lot of these goofy little details etc. happen because DC "just does something" without it being on any schedule.

I'm personally quite happy that DC and Sploosh are claiming these freedoms, though the same shouldn't be true for coding and posing.

 

[Poggersq]

It won't. By now it seems like this whole tech update (and to some degree the main story) as it happened will lose DC a massive amount of money. If he'd actually care about money, he'd have continued the trend and released updates to finish the game. That way he'd probably be making a very decent 6 figure number/month right now and could have moved on to the next project with his patrons pretty soon. And that's before we are talking about other ways of monetization.

People who claim that it's more profitable to go slow and/or milk patrons are just wrong. It may be the case for small devs who make a few thousand $ and have a real job besides that, but not for a project with such a huge audience and this much potential. In DC's case it's just a lost opportunity.

This slow development happens because DC doesn't really care about money, not because he's greedy.


Hm? DC certainly is a veteran artist but that's it. We've been following the game long enough to know that DC has had 4 different coders (including himself intintially) by now and that it's has indeed been more about trying to keep the game playable than actually having a real concept behind it. The tech update is supposed to change that - we'll see.

When it comes to schedules and workflows? I think the game would be quite a bit worse if DC couldn't just add stuff as he sees fit in general. A lot of these goofy little details etc. happen because DC "just does something" without it being on any schedule.

I'm personally quite happy that DC and Sploosh are claiming these freedoms, though the same shouldn't be true for coding and posing.

true. there's bad investment on both ends.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

To chime in on the issue, how many small figure donators does he have?
Because I'm thinking someone who pays like a little bit of money every month probably cares not that much. Like what's some 10 bucks amongst the other bills you'll pay evers month?

In the end, up to everyone else how and where they spent their cash.

 

[CoolHandChewie]

I still can't get over how a point and click game rebuild can take 2+ years, when there have been games that are much more complicated, made from start to finish in the same time, by a smaller team, working in their free time.

there are just no viable excuses anymore. it's laziness and the dev is abusing their customers. we know most of their patrons are desperate for the finished product and will keep giving them money for it and that the rest are just thinking "it's only a few bucks, whatever". all the while the dev is getting enough income to do this full time!
it's abuse, no way around that. whether the dev realizes it or not.


it's so blatantly obvious. just look at how many games on this site eventually start slowing down their updates, once they start getting more and more sustainable income.
it's human nature:
I'm getting more money from doing this hobby, than I would from doing my current job. and the money keeps coming in, even if I miss my promised deadlines. and should that ever stop, I can just go back to my day job.
why should I put any more effort into this, if it doesn't bring more income and I can just take all the time I want? (example, not a real quote)

because who the hell would.

so what to do then.
well you know, the usual: cucks need to wake up and the rest need to get off their asses. all need to take a good look at what's been happening with this game for the past 7 years and realize that they've been paying upwards to hundreds in $ or €, just to see a few new cartoon images of tits and pussy with extremely cheesy storylines, every twice or thrice a year.

would you really pay that much for anything so simple and small?


...yeah, the dev will likely get there eventually. but only god knows how fucking long it will be to reach there.
I'll remind you, the progress bar has moved only about 11% IN ONE YEAR

april 8th, 2022:


please for the sake of your sanity, dignity and wallets, wake up!

it's so astoundigly sad and shameful to watch pathetic people being dragged along and to see them pay monthly for idle promises of PORN.

they are paying a monthly subscription for a 15 dollar game at best. they have spent 100s of dollars on nothing lol

 

[gam2000]

... they have spent 100s of dollars on nothing lol

I wouldn't say "nothing" - there is plenty of action, paths, and characters to "play" with, even thought the additional things that people want are not there. The game is still a lot of fun as it is, IMHO.

 

[rentintin]

I wouldn't say "nothing" - there is plenty of action, paths, and characters to "play" with, even thought the additional things that people want are not there. The game is still a lot of fun as it is, IMHO.

I think he was referring to the past 2 years in the tech update... saga...

 

[mattius77]

Still with complaining about DC and time.

 

[gam2000]

Still with complaining about DC and time.

...and on and on it goes...

 

[Deleted member 378959]

Hello everyone!

This is my first time writing in this forum, although I have been here for over a year. I am here to express my frustration and disappointment with the developer's inability to deliver a game, despite earning a substantial amount of money per month.

In August 2016, the developers received their first $1 Patreon. As of this year, 2023, they have around 25,000 subscribers, giving the developers $60,000 per month! It has taken them seven years to create a "point and click" game. During these seven years, they have accumulated around 5 million dollars, and the game is still not finished! There are no deadlines, regular updates, or schedules. It appears as though they are taking advantage of their Patreons.

I understand that some may see my review as greedy, envious, or even jealous. That is not the case. There are examples of great games that are popular today and started with a budget less than 5 million dollars.

For example, Stardew Valley had a solo developer who worked on the game for about seven years with a budget of 0. His only budget was his time. But if we consider paying him during this period, the budget would be around 500k dollars, approximately 1/10 of Samertime Saga's budget!

Another example is Minecraft, which started in 2009 with 0 budget by a guy who had a day job. It is more popular than Stardew Valley and has billions in gross profits. Even if we consider a monthly salary for this guy, his budget would still be only 1/10 of Samertime Saga's budget!

This article may not change anything, but I wanted to express my thoughts on this game and its developers. If you are a Patreon, please consider following some better projects that show promise and are in need of your support.

Take care, and happy gaming!

P.s
Data sources for DarkCookie devs

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Data sources for Stardew Valley & Minecraft:

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I actually had a post similar to this but it was too overboard so I decided to scrap it half way through.

From update 13.0 to current 20.16

Time taken is in months, trendline included.


If anyone thinks it's off you're welcome to make a graph yourself and let me know where it's wrong. This was half-assed. Done in 10mins or so then scrapped.

And you're right, so many other devs, especially on this website deserve funding. Some of them really push themselves and work when they're sick but receive less than 1/4 of the SS donations.

On that note 2 games I recommend donating to over SS are "Aurelia" and "What a Legend!"



edit: *The game has also increased in quality which we have to give credit for but the trend is still up from when we started getting animations*

 

[Deleted member 378959]

The difference is, that DC is usually streaming his work 7 to 8 hours a week, with each stream ending up being watched somewhere between 3000 and 6000 times. So we are talking about 50.000+ views each month. It's indeed hard to judge how many of his patrons are actually giving money because of that - unlike most other streamers, he doesn't really offer stream goodies for money or such.

For those who are regulars, that's like 30+ hours of entertainment each month. It's hard to argue that nobody is getting anything in this case.

In that scenario I totally agree. Giving a couple $ to just watch an NSFW artist on your lunch break or something isn't crazy at all. Like you said, it's hard know how many patrons are like that though: reasonable, fully aware, fully thinking it through...etc

I guess we'll never know

 

[McSlut]

will be interesting to see if DC changes plans and releases more pre tech updates because let's be real here, the tech update is not coming out this year and i'm not sure how long you can pacify his patreons with a couple wallpapers every 6 months

 

[KillerBee487]

I actually had a post similar to this but it was too overboard so I decided to scrap it half way through.

And you're right, so many other devs, especially on this website deserve funding. Some of them really push themselves and work when they're sick but receive less than 1/4 of the SS donations.

On that note 2 games I recommend donating to over SS are "Aurelia" and "What a Legend!"



edit: *The game has also increased in quality which we have to give credit for but the trend is still up from when we started getting animations*

And 395 games, DrPinkCake and Chyos (if you like RPGM games).

As I've said before, I like DC, but from what I've seen and even liking STS, it would be a big mistake to gamble my money on their team. The game is free, and I'd rather waste my time 2 years than waste 200 bucks on wallpapers AND waste my time.

There are more serious and hardworking developers out there, and their work should be more recognized than it currently is.
The way I see it, STS in a hobby that became too serious. It's a very good game, but it's a first project and I think that as such, it should have finished a long time ago to start another one in a much more professional way, with a team and with a good planning behind it.

The other DEVs have been very serious with their work (offering the game for free as well) and have also been very transparent (like Pistachio and Chestnut from What a Legend), so they have much less pressure than the StS team. It's a pity that their games don't get love from patreon (except DPC), but I'm convinced that they are a good example to follow in most cases for future developers.

 

[1231488663]

If the reason the development has come almost to a halt for 2 years now because the tech update has them remake every scene, go back to fix everything, pose every scene manually again, even create new programs just to automatically pose scenes. Why didn't they just split the game into two parts? Imagine how much easier work would be if they just left the game alone and added new scenes to a sequel/part 2 without having to worry about it breaking something or having to remake already existing scenes.
Seems like sunk cost fallacy at play. It's going to take them longer to put out the tech update than if they right now just abandoned Summertime Saga and put the new scenes in Summertime Saga 2.
How many years will it take for Darkcookie to realize that they wasted all their time on old scenes that everyone already saw and will just skip past when they play the new updates?