Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.6440] [Kompas Productions]

[j4yj4m]

That's debatable. MrDots puts out monthly updates (2 on for Melody, 1 off, with 1 on for DMD) and he has far more content in his releases than any single update that Kompas offers. So tie 3 months of MrDots updates together and compare it to what Kompas releases, and they're not even in the same ballpark.

The thing is that there's a big difference between renders and hand drawn art. In MrDot's case he can simply hand the models to somebody who is somewhat skilled in working/rendering and the result will be perfect. Thus you have almost doubled the work that can be done without losing any quality. In the case of Summertime Saga you can't do that. DC draws full time and to add to the pace you basically would have to find someone who can draw just like DC to not lose quality and there will still be a risk that one would see the difference. Else you can speed up rendering by getting way better, professional hardware etc. while you can't do that with your drawing. DC won't draw twice as fast if he buys a high end rig, etc.

So in the end it's important to see that one can't really compare renders at this point. If anything one should compare games which use drawn art as well and at least I don't see anybody being faster/better here.

 

[freca]

The thing is that there's a big difference between renders and hand drawn art. In MrDot's case he can simply hand the models to somebody who is somewhat skilled in working/rendering and the result will be perfect. Thus you have almost doubled the work that can be done without losing any quality. In the case of Summertime Saga you can't do that. DC draws full time and to add to the pace you basically would have to find someone who can draw just like DC to not lose quality and there will still be a risk that one would see the difference. Else you can speed up rendering by getting way better, professional hardware etc. while you can't do that with your drawing. DC won't draw twice as fast if he buys a high end rig, etc.

So in the end it's important to see that one can't really compare renders at this point. If anything one should compare games which use drawn art as well and at least I don't see anybody being faster/better here.

Not really. Kompass productions completes their art fairly quickly, and has done so for well over the last year. Coding, and posing is usually the hang up - with coding being the eye sore. So using "hand drawn art" as your primary defense, is just not a good choice. That being said, I've watched his streams and DC copy/pastes a lot of pre-rendered drawings in his art. Only brand new characters, or locations get freshly drawn art. With the random, new sex scene receiving new art as well. So his working time isn't that drastic.

 

[RomanHume]

That's debatable. MrDots puts out monthly updates (2 on for Melody, 1 off, with 1 on for DMD) and he has far more content in his releases than any single update that Kompas offers. So tie 3 months of MrDots updates together and compare it to what Kompas releases, and they're not even in the same ballpark.

Mr. Dots also has a linear story with a very simple coding structure and his renders are done in daz, sometimes very sloppily. If I was working full time on my project I could put out huge Mr. Dots quality updates as well.

I mean no offense, I like Dots. Been a patron of his for over a year. But his work is fast, dirty and linear. But this game has a more complex structure and more work goes into the visuals. Dots' work is easy by comparison.

 

[freca]

Mr. Dots also has a linear story with a very simple coding structure and his renders are done in daz, sometimes very sloppily. If I was working full time on my project I could put out huge Mr. Dots quality updates as well.

I mean no offense, I like Dots. Been a patron of his for over a year. But his work is fast, dirty and linear. But this game has a more complex structure and more work goes into the visuals. Dots' work is easy by comparison.

As mentioned previously, his art doesn't seem to ever be the problem (for DC). Historically, it is always his coding that is behind.

 

[RomanHume]

As mentioned previously, his art doesn't seem to ever be the problem (for DC). Historically, it is always his coding that is behind.

As long as we agree that Mr. Dots artwork is sloppy, you'll get no argument from me. :closedtongue:

But to your point, more complex game, more complex code. Longer lead time.

 

[j4yj4m]

Not really. Kompass productions completes their art fairly quickly, and has done so for well over the last year. Coding, and posing is usually the hang up - with coding being the eye sore. So using "hand drawn art" as your primary defense, is just not a good choice. That being said, I've watched his streams and DC copy/pastes a lot of pre-rendered drawings in his art. Only brand new characters, or locations get freshly drawn art. With the random, new sex scene receiving new art as well. So his working time isn't that drastic.

Yes, really. Coding and posing do not matter for the overall speed. Since the drawing of the art for the next update starts right away not a single day is lost. It's not like DC stops drawing once he finishes one update and does something else in the meantime and he certainly doesn't touch the code or does poses, that's somebody else's job.
And yes, of course DC reuses a lot of art, else it would be even slower. If you've watched his streams you know how long it takes to draw and that he's not wasting time. Either you want a high quality game with good art or you want fast updates. Both doesn't work. Of course he could start to use ultra low quality templates and return to old "buy x to solve quest y" stories or animations which contain 2 images as we've had them before, but I'm happy he doesn't do that. Quality takes time.

Somewhat unrelated, does anyone know what category of the three (art, posing,coding) that the dialogue writing falls under?

I'd guess that it's not included at all. I mean, the writers will be quite a bit ahead and given that DC seems to produce the road maps etc. right after the previous release, most of the broader story and dialog will be done early while changes can happen anytime anyway.

 

[bakasto]

Spoiler: Mom redesign WIP

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[Dr.SKD]

any news about main story
DC should make a little content on main story in every update

 

[Rando Civ]

Spoiler: Mom redesign WIP

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Well, I will miss the marks on her eyes... but I welcome the extra fat.

 

[E-Dog]

Spoiler: Mom redesign WIP

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Looking a lot younger there

 

[E-Dog]

Well, I will miss the marks on her eyes... but I welcome the extra fat.

U think she looks bigger? I think she looks a little thinner.

 

[TheDevian]

U think she looks bigger? I think she looks a little thinner.

Ticker or thinner, I still think she looks better. Never was a fan of that 'wrinkle' line. As long as most are happy, that's what matters. XD

 

[E-Dog]

Ticker or thinner, I still think she looks better. Never was a fan of that 'wrinkle' line. As long as most are happy, that's what matters. XD

I think she looks sexier too!

 

[PatreonTed]

As mentioned previously, his art doesn't seem to ever be the problem (for DC). Historically, it is always his coding that is behind.

Just this guy's opinion, but I think don't the coding is the issue when it's done 13-20 days after the art, and then coding is dependent on the posing (which is dependent on the art) and includes testing time.

 

[botc76]

Whatever the reason, I feel the updates are coming way slower now. Was actually wondering if there was a specific reason for the hold-up on the upcoming release.

 

[j4yj4m]

Whatever the reason, I feel the updates are coming way slower now. Was actually wondering if there was a specific reason for the hold-up on the upcoming release.

I'd say it's a mix of everything in the end, more story content, better art quality, better h scenes and better quests. I mean, if you compare for example Roxxy's update to Jenny's you'll see a big difference. In Roxxy's case almost every quest is different, involves different locations, characters, etc. while in for example Jenny's case basically all you'll do is buy stuff, give it to her, visit Somrak and repeat some scenes in the house. That's of course far less work since "everything" repeats itself 3 or 4 times but in the end it's quite boring compared to what we got for Roxxy.

 

[E-Dog]

I dont know how many of u on this thread are younger and/or without a spouse and/or kids, but we did just get done with summer. Children....people's kids.....even programmers and game developers have kids. They had the summer off from school. You spend time with family when can. Kids just went back to school. Parents need to adjust for changing schedules. Takes time. This takes away time from projects.
Plus, i must say that the casual talk of how programming doesnt take time is way off track. Unless you've tried reviewing and proofing whole programs that have thousands amd tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of lines of code i dont think peeps should make unqualified judgement calls on how slow the coding is and should be faster.
And i dont care if peeps took 1 or 2 classes of basic c++ or derivatives thereof in school. Everyone knows the basic concept of basic programming are easy to understand. Enacting it in practice in gigantic or smaller programs isnt as easy. Think back to how long you took doing the homework for those classes and how long it took you to realize u didnt declare a global or local variable correctly. Or that comma that went one whole space further than it should of. Oh! Lets not forget about that semicolon at the end of your code on line 43! How many hours did it take to make u wanna throw your computer out the window?
Plus, this site is a pirate site. We arent buying here. No room to complain about production speed. @DarkCookie puts out self created stuff that you can tell has time and heart put in it (even if it is only for the money or not, doesnt matter). How many other games are drawn and not just generic backgrounds and pregenerated models from daz or HS? There are some, but not nearly as many.

 

[Rando Civ]

U think she looks bigger? I think she looks a little thinner.

Absolutely and thank God she does. Chubby women are great.

 

[E-Dog]

Absolutely and thank God she does. Chubby women are great.

Well, regardless, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This beholder says and thinks she looks fine and sexy as hell!! Woo!

 

[botc76]

I dont know how many of u on this thread are younger and/or without a spouse and/or kids, but we did just get done with summer. Children....people's kids.....even programmers and game developers have kids. They had the summer off from school. You spend time with family when can. Kids just went back to school. Parents need to adjust for changing schedules. Takes time. This takes away time from projects.
Plus, i must say that the casual talk of how programming doesnt take time is way off track. Unless you've tried reviewing and proofing whole programs that have thousands amd tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of lines of code i dont think peeps should make unqualified judgement calls on how slow the coding is and should be faster.
And i dont care if peeps took 1 or 2 classes of basic c++ or derivatives thereof in school. Everyone knows the basic concept of basic programming are easy to understand. Enacting it in practice in gigantic or smaller programs isnt as easy. Think back to how long you took doing the homework for those classes and how long it took you to realize u didnt declare a global or local variable correctly. Or that comma that went one whole space further than it should of. Oh! Lets not forget about that semicolon at the end of your code on line 43! How many hours did it take to make u wanna throw your computer out the window?
Plus, this site is a pirate site. We arent buying here. No room to complain about production speed. @DarkCookie puts out self created stuff that you can tell has time and heart put in it (even if it is only for the money or not, doesnt matter). How many other games are drawn and not just generic backgrounds and pregenerated models from daz or HS? There are some, but not nearly as many.

Oh, bullcrap. Do you know if Cookie or any of his team have families? Is there a part in patreon that says something about paid vacation time?
Yes, everybody should be understanding that devs are people and have lives and families and that those sometimes take predecence over work, but that's not a blanko excuse for everything.

And yes, this is a pirate site, but many of us are also patreons for many games and while I get that one might not want to see a dev they like get trashed here, that's not what's happening.
I've been a patreon for this game in the past and might become so again, if finances allow it and if the updates happen more often.
Also, while only pirating the games does not entitle you to anything, it doesn't mean it can't be discussed or that your arguments hold no value due to that. Everyone has a right to voice his opinion.

People are only discussing whether the size of the updates is adequate when you look at the time between said updates.
And no one was accusing the dev of anything.

I think there are too many of two extremes here on this board lately. On one hand you have the people who attack devs in outrageous ways, accusing them of being liars, cheats, thieves and whatnot, often without having any clue or interest of what's going on in a dev's mind, his life, family etc..
But then on the other hand you have those that automatically will jump to their beloved devs defence, not caring whether he was attacked or not, not caring if it was valid criticism. Those people also often think they have the right to tell us what to think about a specific game and its dev.