Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.6705] [Kompas Productions]

[DaedusWolfe]

So after I un-watched the thread I got curious and I went through the changes we see in the current build compared to 0.20.16.
So here is what I see.

Mind you, I was hoping to see some mind boggling changes and a lot of "place holders" for things in the code.
Unfortunately I did not.
I'm sorry guys .. but I do not see 2 years worth of coding changes. It may be that there is far more to it (on a dev server or someone else's sytem) than what I have seen. But after having played though what is available and then looking at the code I just don't see it. More like a month or two worth of code changes. A TON of Art though. 2.2 GB of art compared to the old 1GB of art. But code? 1.3 MB of code compared to the old 29.5 MB of code.
A lot of re-organization of code. They've broken away from the traditional organization of 99% of renpy games. But still. Any decent coder could have written what is there in just a few weeks time. Obviously, if it is going to take up to 2 months between updates to get the tech update out, DC does not have a full time coder, if he has a coder at all.

Personally I'm writing off this game as another Big Brother. I hope I am wrong about it but I just don't see it worth my while to hold my breath over this one.

 

[manneychin]

So after I un-watched the thread I got curious and I went through the changes we see in the current build compared to 0.20.16.
So here is what I see.

Mind you, I was hoping to see some mind boggling changes and a lot of "place holders" for things in the code.
Unfortunately I did not.
I'm sorry guys .. but I do not see 2 years worth of coding changes. It may be that there is far more to it (on a dev server or someone else's sytem) than what I have seen. But after having played though what is available and then looking at the code I just don't see it. More like a month or two worth of code changes. A TON of Art though. 2.2 GB of art compared to the old 1GB of art. But code? 1.3 MB of code compared to the old 29.5 MB of code.
A lot of re-organization of code. They've broken away from the traditional organization of 99% of renpy games. But still. Any decent coder could have written what is there in just a few weeks time. Obviously, if it is going to take up to 2 months between updates to get the tech update out, DC does not have a full time coder, if he has a coder at all.

Personally I'm writing off this game as another Big Brother. I hope I am wrong about it but I just don't see it worth my while to hold my breath over this one.

It's called dA EngiNE!!! I'll allow DC's employees who moderate and provide the noise in this thread to explain to you what that is.
3 years of back breaking work went into the dA EngiNE. $2.2 million. You just don't have what it takes to understand dA EngiNE and it's all there or else it wouldn't be dA EngiNE, it would just be regular code that supports regular parts of the story.

Remember. It's the $2.2 million EngiNE!!!

 

[Marphey]

Maybe instead of painting wallpapers for suc.....ehm supporters he shoudl have focus on organizing his team and working on the game and maybe we would have something that you can actually call update.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

Was this game only popular because of the incest?

Incest is one of the main kinks of the genre. It's why so many WEGs included that stuff as if it was a common thing until Patreon swung the ban hammer.

 

[MurkyTurtle]

I've tried to mostly stay out of the dogpile because I agree the update was dogshit, but has anyone else noticed the absolutely Herculean effort on the download page to put lipstick on this pig?:



That right there is what we call "deceptive marketing", kids. Just look at all that bright text in the preview version, and how many more green checks there are! Why would you ever download the old crappy version, what with its piddling features like "All content available" and "Music and Sound". Who plays games for their story and music? Not you, savvy consumer, you're in it for that smooth input and load times.

Side tangent, my last job pulled the same garbage during the union recruitment seminar. In the breakdown of union vs. non-union there were like three lines dedicated to salary and benefits (which were the same for both groups) followed by twenty or so lines with garbage like "Be able to make a difference by participating in union votes!" It was about as subtle as the metaphorical brick they were not-so-subtly threatening us with if we didn't join the union.

 

[Marphey]

I've tried to mostly stay out of the dogpile because I agree the update was dogshit, but has anyone else noticed the absolutely Herculean effort on the download page to put lipstick on this pig?:

View attachment 3705198

That right there is what we call "deceptive marketing", kids. Just look at all that bright text in the preview version, and how many more green checks there are! Why would you ever download the old crappy version, what with its piddling features like "All content available" and "Music and Sound". Who plays games for their story and music? Not you, savvy consumer, you're in it for that smooth input and load times.

Side tangent, my last job pulled the same garbage during the union recruitment seminar. In the breakdown of union vs. non-union there were like three lines dedicated to salary and benefits (which were the same for both groups) followed by twenty or so lines with garbage like "Be able to make a difference by participating in union votes!" It was about as subtle as the metaphorical brick they were not-so-subtly threatening us with if we didn't join the union.

Lol the audicity that DC has is astounding.

 

[Radon671]

Was this game only popular because of the incest?

Obviously. Debbie written quite well for mommy character unlike 90% of such games.

So after I un-watched the thread I got curious and I went through the changes we see in the current build compared to 0.20.16.
So here is what I see.

Mind you, I was hoping to see some mind boggling changes and a lot of "place holders" for things in the code.
Unfortunately I did not.
I'm sorry guys .. but I do not see 2 years worth of coding changes. It may be that there is far more to it (on a dev server or someone else's sytem) than what I have seen. But after having played though what is available and then looking at the code I just don't see it. More like a month or two worth of code changes. A TON of Art though. 2.2 GB of art compared to the old 1GB of art. But code? 1.3 MB of code compared to the old 29.5 MB of code.
A lot of re-organization of code. They've broken away from the traditional organization of 99% of renpy games. But still. Any decent coder could have written what is there in just a few weeks time. Obviously, if it is going to take up to 2 months between updates to get the tech update out, DC does not have a full time coder, if he has a coder at all.

Personally I'm writing off this game as another Big Brother. I hope I am wrong about it but I just don't see it worth my while to hold my breath over this one.

I would like to read actual analysis of code changes done by experienced Python / RenPy coder. To justify that all this 2.5 years were just milking we need actual evidence.

 

[cs2468]

How would one convert the PYC to PY files to edit, if they wanted to look at the code? It looks like scenes are still in rpy files, but it looks like the navigation and variables are in PYC files.

 

[Nullx54]

Welcome to the economy, friend.

Indeed, it's honestly rare to see good behavior being rewarded while grifting has next to no consequences. Can't even be mad at the devs at this point.

 

[Radon671]

How would one convert the PYC to PY files to edit, if they wanted to look at the code? It looks like scenes are still in rpy files, but it looks like the navigation and variables are in PYC files.

They could intentionally encrypted the code to prevent unRen /mods / looking at 2.5 years long "titanic work", is it possible in RenPy?

 

[Gundark]

So after I un-watched the thread I got curious and I went through the changes we see in the current build compared to 0.20.16.
So here is what I see.

Mind you, I was hoping to see some mind boggling changes and a lot of "place holders" for things in the code.
Unfortunately I did not.
I'm sorry guys .. but I do not see 2 years worth of coding changes. It may be that there is far more to it (on a dev server or someone else's sytem) than what I have seen. But after having played though what is available and then looking at the code I just don't see it. More like a month or two worth of code changes. A TON of Art though. 2.2 GB of art compared to the old 1GB of art. But code? 1.3 MB of code compared to the old 29.5 MB of code.
A lot of re-organization of code. They've broken away from the traditional organization of 99% of renpy games. But still. Any decent coder could have written what is there in just a few weeks time. Obviously, if it is going to take up to 2 months between updates to get the tech update out, DC does not have a full time coder, if he has a coder at all.

Personally I'm writing off this game as another Big Brother. I hope I am wrong about it but I just don't see it worth my while to hold my breath over this one.

Did you see the art folder?

I'm no coder, but what is the advantage of splitting every single drawing into its own folder directory?

 

[Gundark]

They could intentionally encrypted the code to prevent unRen /mods / looking at 2.5 years long "titanic work", is it possible in RenPy?

A pyc file is just a compiled version of a py file. It isn't encrypted; the opposite, actually.

 

[DownTheDrain]

A pyc file is just a compiled version of a py file. It isn't encrypted; the opposite, actually.

You can't just take a quick look with any word editor though...

 

[Gundark]

You can't just take a quick look with any word editor though...

Yeah, but "encryption" implies deliberately hiding something. Bytecode is just machine code. It isn't nefarious.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Yeah, but "encryption" implies deliberately hiding something. Bytecode is just machine code. It isn't nefarious.

I didn't claim it was nefarious, though I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it was solely meant to make modding, editing or just checking the code more difficult.

 

[Gundark]

I didn't claim it was nefarious, though I wouldn't be particularly surprised if it was solely meant to make modding, editing or just checking the code more difficult.

Right, like I said pyc and py files are built into Renpy.

 

[unnammed]

To be honest, I suspect if you told DC at the time that the tech update would have ended up like this, he probably would have written off the idea, squeezed out the remaining content updates on spaghetti code and started the other game he wants to make, on a better codebase. He's been itching to do a different game than SS for at least 6 years now (to my knowledge), but he backed himself into a corner with this tech update stuff and now he (quite rightly) has to see it through

If he really wanted to move on then I think it was crazy to do a technical update at the point. He had to know how time consuming,?, and difficult this would be. If he didn't know at the start, then he probably knew after first few days working on it.

There was plenty of time to back down and if he really didn't want to continue on his spaghetti code there was always the opportunity to do a Summertime Saga 1.5. To take such an old well-loved project that is nearing the finish line and deciding to "rewrite the whole codebase" reeks not of incompetence/ignorance but more scummy/greedy action.

Technical debt is real issue but if he worked with it for 6 years, then I'm sure he could have done it for a few more updates and ended it. Half the project you get when you work in companies/consulting is horrible spaghetti code and you just make do and patch things up and make it work.

 

[PayneToTheMax]

Indeed, it's honestly rare to see good behavior being rewarded while grifting has next to no consequences. Can't even be mad at the devs at this point.

We're basically at a point where one might as well become a grifter, too. Gotta pay bills and money doesn't grown on trees.

 

[jems666]

being able to go into homes and buildings and they are all empty because there's no story/event going on breaks the immersion, i don't remember it being like this years back

 

[DaedusWolfe]

Obviously. Debbie written quite well for mommy character unlike 90% of such games.

I would like to read actual analysis of code changes done by experienced Python / RenPy coder. To justify that all this 2.5 years were just milking we need actual evidence.

I could do that for you but I am not going to waste my time on analyzing how they spent 2+ years on reducing their code base to 3% of what it was. What I can tell you is that there is absolutely no code or place holders, for the other characters, other than what you see in the current build. In otherwords, all of the code for all of the other girls is gone. All of the events are gone .. no code for them at all. It all needs to be added back in. It's like they restructured the file system and file naming system. Then copy and pasted the code for Debbie and Jenny (and a scene with Ivy and the librarian) back into several new files with the changes needed to find the art. 2.5 years worth of work .. hell no

Edit: After looking through the new vs the old code it looks like the scenes are being rewritten to work with what ever new system they have created. I've just been randomly grabbing the new scripts and looking for the same scene in the old scripts and comparing the code. It is definitely different. I'll did deeper into the engine itself later. I need to sleep.