Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.6705] [Kompas Productions]

[zandalari]

Ah yes, another tech update to the poster child game for "doing less with more". Credit where it's due, DC is a master of getting his followers to settle for nothing for years on end and then somehow insist that it's fine. Some fucking Stockholm syndrome sufferers up in here.

I looked at some numbers to see just how much of a colossal financial waste this whole project has been. Bear in mind that VN development costs are kind of hazy, especially thanks to patreon, but I'm just going to post some actual video game costs as a baseline reference.

First off, the game has been in development for 6 years and roughly 3 months. Obviously it didn't enjoy the kind of financial success in the beginning as it does now, but even assuming that he started getting ~$70k USD monthly in the last 2 years, that is still solid $2-3 million throughout the years.

Nowadays the most popular indie dev platform is mobile phones.

Spoiler: Mobile game types and development costs

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That is one hell of a fancy ass mobile game someone else could have made with that kind of money, even if it was drip fed and not paid up front. Not convinced, still drooling on yourself over muh art? Alright, some more numbers. Let's look at some other platforms.

Spoiler: Rising game dev costs over generations

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We are approaching a 30 person team developing for the 'cube. Where is my fucking physics engine, custom soundtrack, dedicated coder team etc?

In 2012, the ESA (Entertainment Software Association) of Canada gave the average development costs for various platforms as follows:

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  - $8,728,125
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  & Mac - $995,675
• MMO - $834,000
• Web - $651,625
• Mobile - $303,500
• Social Network - $295,000
• Kiosk & Standalone - $30,000

Now this is 10 years old so the costs have bloated since, but we are still talking some serious money that should have been turned into a complete or at least far better product than what we have. Stardew Valley was made by one guy, is an actual game, features charming pixel art and was made from 2012 to 2016.

Game is on fucking RenPy and the engine comes with all the bells and whistles. I don't give a fuck what kind of spaghetti the code is, it could have been rebuilt from the ground up, ported to Unity, back, and gotten spit polished along the way twice over now. Here's some developer costs:

Spoiler: Developer hourly rate by region

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Anyway, this is getting too long as is. Point of it all being that the critics have the right to ask where this project is going and the defenders must love being abused.

 

[randomguy6516265165]

does the pool dialogue with mom and aunt change if you fuck your aunt before that?

 

[ImTransAndTiny]

Genuine question: what kind of discourse did you expect when the OP explicitly sequesters off any gameplay questions?
Even discussing future updates is kinda moot because the next three updates are already known and at current rates that'll last at least six years.

The same thing that fans of any game/TV show/movie talk about: how they feel about what's been published so far, theories about what's to come, and what they want to see in the future.

I participate in many fandoms, and they're a lot of fun. "How do you feel about David Tennant coming back as the Fourteenth Doctor?" "Is it just me, or did the new Matrix movie not have a single good fight scene?" "I have a great idea for another Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul movie!"

Happy posts. Criticism. Anything other than incessant complaints about milking, and defamation of those who disagree or point out that there's no value to posts about milking. Basically, anything that has a shred of value.

 

[IdleGuy]

The same thing that fans of any game/TV show/movie talk about: how they feel about what's been published so far, theories about what's to come, and what they want to see in the future.

I participate in many fandoms, and they're a lot of fun. "How do you feel about David Tennant coming back as the Fourteenth Doctor?" "Is it just me, or did the new Matrix movie not have a single good fight scene?" "I have a great idea for another Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul movie!"

Happy posts. Criticism. Anything other than incessant complains about milking, and defamation of those who disagree or point out that there's no value to posts about milking. Basically, anything that has a shred of value.

Might be but most of that has been discussed to death and the current update - tech - just isn't really conducive to discussions. "Wow, I wasn't really feeling it with 4:3 but with that 16:9, phwoar, my dick turned to absolute diamonds" said no one ever.

I'm only really interested in Roxxy and Rhonda personally and I don't really enjoy engaging in discussions about either because I know it'll just end up with me getting upset over the fact that any meaningful updates for either keep getting pushed further and further back. At least with TV shows you know when you get new episodes and after that you can speculate for another year.
Two years ago I said here jokingly that I'd check back in for Rhonda in 2022, because that was both ludicrously far off and, in my absolute naivety, far beyond when I actually expected it to come out. And here we are. 2022, and the best prognosis I hear is late 2023 at best. Yeah, I know the tech update messed up the timeline but I genuinely could not give even an iota of a microshit about improved aspect ratios or APK support.

 

[chunkas]

...
Anyone who legitimately thinks that this character can't find a dozen programmers from anywhere in the world to unscramble his fucking code for years now is a gullible idiot. I'd accuse them of being paid shills but we know DC doesn't want to pay anyone, so that's clearly out. I don't understand how anyone can defend this game or development team at this point. It's clearly going nowhere.
...

Dozen programmers from anywhere in the world
The American oil magnate Harold Hunt was very rich. However, he always left his expensive car a few blocks from the office so as not to pay 50 cents for parking, wore an old suit that literally disintegrated from old age, and he cut his own hair out of economy.

 

[katabasi]

forever beta

 

[phoenixman123]

So we finally get more Tina content after two years. Once again we have one of the most well gifted ladies only showing us side boob during her scenes. Come on, DC, we want to see those big milf tiddies in their full glory!

 

[j4yj4m]

Which really confuses me. If the guy finished this game, then started developing another game. Wouldn't his patreons still keep paying him to make games as good as this one? Why would he just milk his fanbase for years on this one game. He could attract even more people to his patreon by releasing multiple amazing porn games fairly consistently.

DC is a guy who left his position/job in the animation industry because he wanted to freelance and to create his own stuff on his own terms. And that's what he's been doing ever since. He's settled on his way of working and on a team size that doesn't really require any major management, but can be brought into one voice channel to have a bit of fun with his followers. That's it. Literally it. No matter if he earns 25.000 or 75.000 a month, it's the one thing that never changed.

Some people always assume that it's mainly about the money, but they completely fail to realize how much more money DC would be making (for the same or maybe even less work) if he had just dropped that premise and went big, including all the stuff that's connected to that (advertisment, steam, merch, etc.). Even now years later there's a real lack of quality 2D (mobile) porn games, even though the market seems substancial enough to sustain at least a few of them.

Then again, I'm also sure that the game wouldn't be as charming/goofy/nice/etc. as it is now in that case. Once you've actually have to release stuff on a schedule and budget, there's less room for actual creativity and spontaneous stupidity. Devs like for example NLT are a prime example of that.

 

[ImTransAndTiny]

Might be but most of that has been discussed to death and the current update - tech - just isn't really conducive to discussions. "Wow, I wasn't really feeling it with 4:3 but with that 16:9, phwoar, my dick turned to absolute diamonds" said no one ever.

It's been 59 years and Doctor Who hasn't been discussed to death. 56 for Star Trek. 45 for Star Wars. Those topics haven't been discussed to death because a) new people keep entering the conversation, and b) new material keeps being produced. Both are true of Summertime Saga. The former will always be true, and the latter became true again less than 24 hours ago. Now we can talk about how we feel about the new fuckable character, Yoyo.

I'm only really interested in Roxxy and Rhonda personally and I don't really enjoy engaging in discussions about either because I know it'll just end up with me getting upset over the fact that any meaningful updates for either keep getting pushed further and further back. At least with TV shows you know when you get new episodes and after that you can speculate for another year.
Two years ago I said here jokingly that I'd check back in for Rhonda in 2022, because that was both ludicrously far off and, in my absolute naivety, far beyond when I actually expected it to come out. And here we are. 2022, and the best prognosis I hear is late 2023 at best. Yeah, I know the tech update messed up the timeline but I genuinely could not give even an iota of a microshit about improved aspect ratios or APK support.

And there, you just made a totally reasonable post that contained criticism. Those are fine! You can post negative stuff, as long it's more substantial than, "DC is deliberately keeping development slow in order to make more money". That was never a complex or interesting insight, and it stopped being original several years and tens of thousands of posts ago.

 

[j4yj4m]

still doesn't really explain why he can't at least pay that one coder who is working on rewriting the code full time. also he wants to keep his team small i get it, also he's 16 months late with this dumb tech update, it would only be fair to his patreons and fans if he changes his stance on hiring more people at least for the time being until the tech update is out.

I'd say in his mind the game as a whole progressing is enough. Objectively it hardly matters whether you add the scenes for let's say the mafia girls, the librarian, Iwanka, Melonia, Liu, Tina, etc. now or whether you do it sometime in the future at the very end. As much as I would have liked to have a faster tech-update, I also don't want the game to end without finishing these characters. So ultimately it's fine to me.

or maybe that one suggestion someone posted earlier about him freezing donations for the time being until they are ready to release some real content again would be the right move, but for not caring about money he sure as hell doesn't mind taking in 70k every month and doing the bare minimum with these halloween/pre tech updates so people won't call this project a complete scam. i can guarantee though nobody calls him out and people just keep defending him for free, we're still going to wait for the tech update at the same time next year

To me that's nothing but a pretty pointless gesture. Those who are talking about the money for years will continue to do so and those who don't care, won't care about that, either. It just won't change a thing. (Edit: As is actually proven by What a Legend! where the devs quite regularly reimburse(d) their patrons, yet ultimately that topic turns just as bad as this one again and again).

Next to that I just don't agree with your definition at all. What makes you think that a ton of scenes aren't "real content"? Especially if that's excatly what many players demanded for years?

i honestly think the last charming/nicely written update was roxxy or maybe eve. i honestly think sploosh writing sucks and he would be better as a full time mod than a writer. now it's mostly meme characters, celebrities, a cringy main story and what the fuck were they thinking with the jewish stereotypes they made out of erik and his mom?

Well, Sploosh did write Roxxy and Eve, too. I'd agree that some characters are bit over the top, but ultimately everybody in this case is some kind of cliche and when it comes to Erik and Tammy, I'll wait until they get more content...

Then again, I'd agree that I personally prefer chracter updates, too. The main story was needed to for the game to be completed at some point, but it'll never be my favourite.

 

[itsyeboii]

Then explain to the thread how donations-driven Patreon is exactly the same funding method as everything else (Kickstarter/AAA/indie) ..... Or not. Since the nukes are coming

It's not exactly the same funding. But regardless of that, people mainly donate to support the project they're a Patron for and that project most likely wouldn't be even remotely possible without the Patrons. I know Summertime Saga wouldn't exist right now if DC wouldn't get a sustainable amount of revenue.

So you can say DC owes nobody anything, but I can argue otherwise. Of course we're not gonna do that since we've done this before and you tucked tail.

 

[zandalari]

Then explain to the thread how donations-driven Patreon is exactly the same funding method as everything else (Kickstarter/AAA/indie) ..... Or not. Since the nukes are coming

I am not going to teach you basic project management. The only major difference between donation driven model and a lump sum investment is that you start slow and expand in the former and have the full team/resources in place in the latter. When you have just started and have no income, you do most of the work yourself. The renders are iffy, the code is shit, you have no help. When you start earning more, you hire help. The more you earn, the more help you can hire to divide the work load and push out better, bigger and more technically sound updates on top of remaking old art/old code. The expectation is that there is some sort of improvement over time that makes reaching the end goal - finishing the game - closer and more likely.

At the end of it all money is money and coders take donated money just as easily as money that comes from some corporate entity. The only thing you could attempt to argue about is that donations are not reliable and thus complicate sticking to a budget. However, that is really not an issue to one of the most profitable games on patreon.

 

[McSlut]

I'd say in his mind the game as a whole progressing is enough. Objectively it hardly matters whether you add the scenes for let's say the mafia girls, the librarian, Iwanka, Melonia, Liu, Tina, etc. now or whether you do it sometime in the future at the very end. As much as I would have liked to have a faster tech-update, I also don't want the game to end without finishing these characters. So ultimately it's fine to me.

i see your point but i'd say he shouldn't have made this many side characters in the first place. he's making stuff for all the less popular girls now, i'm okay with that. still doesn't explain why he won't hire a coder full time because we've been at ~70% for idk how long and it feels like tech update is hardly making any progress. letting some guy work full time on the code is the least he could do

To me that's nothing but a pretty pointless gesture. Those who are talking about the money for years will continue to do so and those who don't care, won't care about that, either. It just won't change a thing.

don't think it would be pointless. it would show that he acknowledges that he fucked up with the tech update but it's him who doesn't give a fuck about what the people who voted for the tech update (back when it was supposed be done in 4 months) and his fans in general think.

Next to that I just don't agree with your definition at all. What makes you think that a ton of scenes aren't "real content"? Especially if that's excatly what many players demanded for years?

i honestly don't see many people clamoring for more scenes with the mafia girls or melonia. of course there is always some people, like there is this one guy here who always asks for more roz content but most people i see online are asking for debbie, ronda, annie, judith. then again if he finished those characters he couldn't dangle that carrot in front of the people who are waiting for them, so i expect more side characters in the coming months.

Well, Sploosh did write Roxxy and Eve, too. I'd agree that some characters are bit over the top, but ultimately everybody in this case is some kind of cliche and when it comes to Erik and Tammy, I'll wait until they get more content...

Then again, I'd agree that I personally prefer chracter updates, too. The main story was needed to for the game to be completed at some point, but it'll never be my favourite.

i think writing quality has gone down on the whole. i honestly think the main story and the russian girls are really really badly written but maybe that's just me

 

[j4yj4m]

i see your point but i'd say he shouldn't have made this many side characters in the first place. he's making stuff for all the less popular girls now, i'm okay with that. still doesn't explain why he won't hire a coder full time because we've been at ~70% for idk how long and it feels like tech update is hardly making any progress letting some guy working full time on the code is the least he could do

It's a fair point but as said, ultimately it doesn't really matter that much. I mean, DC has always failed when it comes to publicity/adverisment and his release schedule is just a part of that. Then again, I don't think any of that actually makes the game better or worse. It's just background noise, which hurts his patreon numbers for years.

don't think it would be pointless. it would show that he acknowledges that he fucked up with the tech update but it's him who doesn't give a fuck what does people who voted for the tech update (back when it was supposed be done in 4 months) and his fans in general think.

Maybe my edit was a little late, but the guys from What a Legend! did that quite regularly and yet this whole thing turned so toxic that they seem to have left F95 completely. It's just how things go and nothing is going to change that. There are always way too many people, who don't care about anything.

Else one should remember that F95 doesn't seem representative of DC's fanbase. Unlike most other games, SS seems to be played by many casual players (on their phone, actually).

i honestly don't see many people clamoring for more scenes with the mafia girls or melonia. of course there is always some people, like there is this one guy here who always asks for more roz content but most people i see online are asking for debbie, ronda, annie, judith. then again if he finished those characters he couldn't dangle that carrot in front of the people who are waiting for these them so i expect more side characters in the coming months.

I don't really buy that carrot analogy to that degree. Of course there are a few surplus characters, but it's really not as bad some people make it sound. Yes, the game does have a massive cast, but it's bascailly been like that from the start.

It makes sense to structure these updates so that the game doesn't run out of steam in the mean time. As said countless times, it takes 5 seconds to end/pause a pledge if people don't like what they are getting and they can still play the game, follow his streams, etc.

Last but not least I'd also say that it's important for DC himself to have something to look forward to. If he'd completed the mandatory content right away, I'm actually quite sure that he'd either stop or move on sooner or later.

i think writing quality has gone down on the whole. i honestly think the main story and the russian girls are really really badly written but maybe that's just me

It's ok for a porn game. Let's not pretend like Roxxy or Eve are actaully that special either compared to any actually well written romance story, they just manage to suck people in quite a bit more because they provide a certain room for characters to grow and for the story to develop. That can hardly be done in a collection of short stories, which are combined into one main story, let alone in the 50 to 100 lines of dialog each mafia girl got. But then again, that's what secondary and tertiary characters are for.

 

[TurboShark]

Damn, I haven't played this game since 2017. Is it still buggy as hell?

 

[Count Morado]

This part. Right here. I don't really get why we don't see more of this criticism lobbied at the top earners of adult games that take a nearly a year or more to push out updates. They're either extremely poorly managed or they're scamming, there's literally no other way to explain it.

There is nothing wrong with doing so... if you are actually subscribing to the developer. Those subscribers are donating enough so that this developer gives everyone his product for free from his own website. If you are not a subscriber, you have no financial stake in what the developer does with the donations. You honestly do not have any input on the speed of the development because you have done nothing to create a financial stake in the in the game. You are not a shareholder, you are not a stakeholder. You aren't even a customer because a customer actually buys something - and this is free for your use. Free for anyone to use - because there are stakeholders who donate to DarkCookie in the support of his work.

On top of this... as is repeated regularly here. Criticizing about the development speed of the game here does absolutely nothing. DarkCookie hasn't communicated here in years (if ever?). So he doesn't see any of the complaints you might have (EDIT: actually, looks like a few messages in 2021 August, 2019 May, and 2018 September. https://f95zone.to/search/226160387/). Criticizing here appears only to create an echochamber of negative vibes between people who have no power to do anything to change a thing.

If you want to actually get DarkCookie's attention
If you want to actually get DarkCookie to consider changing his ways
If you want to actually do something, anything, and not just complain to people who can do nothing to make any changes over and over and over again in futility:

Then go to where DarkCookie does communicate with fans
Then go to where DarkCookie does interact with subscribers and non-subscribers alike

And make your complaints heard. Go to the

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and share your complaints. Go to

You must be registered to see the links

during one of DarkCookie's regular streams and share your complaints.

Actually do something besides just adding pages of complaints in a thread which does nothing to change the situation.

Do something.

 

[srksrk 68]

I was skeptical about Yoyo's potential, given how unattractive she is. Honestly, she looks so much like Kim, and showed up so soon after Kim left, I thought DC was going to channel Ace Ventura and have it be that Yoyo was just Kim after rushing off to get a sex change.

To be clear, the joke is that Yoyo is attempting to extract information through rape which, presumably, is based on men raping women during interrogations in North Korea, which is a horrific thing to joke about. It's funny in this case because -- while it is absolutely possible for men to be raped by women -- it wasn't rape in this case because Anon was perfectly happy to have sex with her, because there is apparently no woman too ugly, crazy, or evil for him to fuck. The joke gets funnier by the fact that the scene is repeatable, so Anon definitely consents on all subsequent "interrogations", and I think we can assume that Yoyo is aware that she's not going to get the coordinates and is not actually trying to rape him in subsequent interrogations, and perhaps the first attempt as well.

I mean, it might need a trigger warning. It might not be funny to a rape victim, but I found it funny.

Honestly, I did not think about rape during that scene. I found those tiny details like "What happened to three?" just funny. I hope nobody is offended by a game, I saw much worse in other media (incl. games). If a rape victim plays porn games, I hope he/she knows what might be coming.

 

[Count Morado]

Damn, I haven't played this game since 2017. Is it still buggy as hell?

Only if you're on an outdated computer/device or attempt to fiddle with the coding and don't know what you're doing. Are there still a few bugs found here and there? Sure. There are very few games in development that are 100% bug-free. If you're expecting bug-free from any game ('completed' or in development) larger than a few megabytes: log-off the internet, turn off your computer and go buy a new board game.

 

[BrotherNewt]

Would people say this update is worth the download and time investment or is it best to wait for another update or two and play through them then?

 

[Count Morado]

Would people say this update is worth the download and time investment or is it best to wait for another update or two and play through them then?

If you have already played through any of the 5 previous pre-tech updates (v0.20.11-v0.20.15) - you can wait.