- Aug 21, 2018
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- Thread starter WeirdWorld
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Man's out here doing five dimensional thinking and solving the mystery.
- Jan 9, 2021
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John Wick is the reincarnated fairy deciding to stop being a pussy and killing people instead.
- Aug 21, 2018
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so the game so far miss anything?
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- Jul 13, 2018
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I'm pretty sure the 6th is the Ether and the heir of space was in reference to Alice being heir to him, Space. Not sure why he has 3 names compared to the other Apostles but I'm positive all 3 names(The 6th, The Ether and Space) are directly referring to him in that scene. Aglaecwif does seem to call the 3rd and 4th by different names as well. Maybe they have a true name beyond their Apostle Trait but only Apostles, their direct spawns and lineages learn them, depending on the connection.
As for the Arbiter stuff, I'm of the belief that you have to have both twins traits to have one be hosted in you. Aglaecwif basically implied it when she said the Arbiter had the original power and the twins have them but split amongst each other. It's also why Ella said she's not the one, most likely. She didn't awaken the Memory trait and thus the Origin didn't form on the 5th Evolution.
Going with this thinking, Alice also wouldn't be able to have an Arbiter inside of her, at least not currently, since she doesn't have the 5th's trait, as far as we're aware. It also seems likely that the 5th is Time so Alice probably won't have it. Meanwhile, Deus has an extremely high chance of having both traits, Time and Space, himself. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Time and Space are closely related. That also explains why Deus said he could handle Hex, who's a descendant from the 6th's line of monsters and Nyx said Zack is dangerous for someone like Nico, who's descendant from Hex as well. Both are of the Time Line(I couldn't resist ) and are a problem for Lines of Space.
As for Jake, he mostly had the potential for the Power trait but because his mind was weak, he screwed up the 1st's trait and that probably affected his requirement for progressing the 2nd's. Which is probably what happened with Ella as well. She leaned too much into the 3rd trait, mentally, that it affected the requirements for the Memory trait.
As for the Arbiter stuff, I'm of the belief that you have to have both twins traits to have one be hosted in you. Aglaecwif basically implied it when she said the Arbiter had the original power and the twins have them but split amongst each other. It's also why Ella said she's not the one, most likely. She didn't awaken the Memory trait and thus the Origin didn't form on the 5th Evolution.
Going with this thinking, Alice also wouldn't be able to have an Arbiter inside of her, at least not currently, since she doesn't have the 5th's trait, as far as we're aware. It also seems likely that the 5th is Time so Alice probably won't have it. Meanwhile, Deus has an extremely high chance of having both traits, Time and Space, himself. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Time and Space are closely related. That also explains why Deus said he could handle Hex, who's a descendant from the 6th's line of monsters and Nyx said Zack is dangerous for someone like Nico, who's descendant from Hex as well. Both are of the Time Line(I couldn't resist
) and are a problem for Lines of Space.As for Jake, he mostly had the potential for the Power trait but because his mind was weak, he screwed up the 1st's trait and that probably affected his requirement for progressing the 2nd's. Which is probably what happened with Ella as well. She leaned too much into the 3rd trait, mentally, that it affected the requirements for the Memory trait.
- Jul 13, 2018
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- Aug 30, 2019
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- Jul 13, 2021
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This is how I think the ecosystem of infection, connection and evolution works.
It's a list of facts and insights based on these facts. I compiled this a bit on the fly
so I may have forgotten something.
1) Some monsters and superhumans have the ability to see the genetic traits of an individual and determine the combatibility and the geneology. Some may be able to do both, others can do either.
2) Valravn is able to discern if MC is the son of Body or Memory just by looking at him the first time they meet, while MC is being hunted by the police.
3) Ella can see the combatibility of an individual and lure the correct monster to infect them.
-----------
About chosens and traits:
4) The numbered are powerful beings, so finding an individual that is combatible enough to be their "heir" is a rare occurance. Chosen doesn't mean anything more than that in my opinion. They are not chosen by the numbered, they just happen to be unique most of the time.
5) I believe Ella is wrong. She thinks that it's possible for a chosen to develop traits from the other half of the pair through evolution, but it doesn't work like that. The range of abilities is determined during infection and it's up to the Superhuman, either consciously or unconsciously, to guide the powers towards something useful. If she could see what the MC sees, she would probably know it, but she lacks the experience.
6) If the individual is capable of hosting only one numbered power, they see the numbered during their evolutions.
7) If the individual is capable of hosting both powers, they see the arbiters during their evolution.
8) No matter what monster infects you, if you have combatibility with it's progenitor, you are connected to the progenitor instead. MC got infected by either Body or Memory, but speaks to the Eye. Alice got infected by Fairy but speaks to Ether.
9) If the individual is not capable of hosting a numbered power, they can still get something better than what their monster parent can do, but never reach the top. However some abilities of lower descend can be expressed in a way that are more useful than a poorly expressed numbered's power. For example, the memory reading HERO chick's power is expressed in a much better way than MC's memory reading power. MC could be better at it and he even manages to make it touchless in his third evolution, but she still has developed the better medium while MC prefers to use touch to deliver the memory power, as shown during the Mia scene.
10) However if your combatilibity is low, you need to be affected by the progenitor directly in order to get connected to it's power. This is Michael's case and it's probably a very rare occurence, but Michael managed to prove himself worthy.
----------
But how does infection work?
11) We've seen that depending on the monster, getting infected can be very easy to happen. Michael was infected by a radioactive ray that missed, the Leigong infected the Aldain by just zapping him, Alice got infected by just being in the proximity (not confirmed).
12) It seems to me that any attack that originates from a monster, no matter if it's physical, energy based or mental, has the potential to infect. From there on, it depends on the human's combatibility. If he isn't combatible he just ignores the infection. However the only small indication we have is Michael not getting infected by the Fairy, assuming that the infection happened touchless.
---------
But what is this connection during evolution?
13) Evolution is a human thing. We don't know exactly what the connection between monster parent and superhuman is, but it seems that not everyone connects to his monster parent while evolving.
14) Alexis and Clark used Xanthe's formula to evolve, and neither one of them had the usual drama of the post evolution trance. Some teeth clenching was involved and they were done. This is unlike MC, Alice and Ella's evolution. MC's evolution trances in particular are extreme. He completely loses himself for an extended period of time.
15) I think the catalyst is corruption. Xanthe's formula is sterile and HERO members use the helmet to completely nullify corruption. Non HERO superhumans don't have that choice. Klaus was extremely concerned when MC evolved because he didn't recognize the post evolution trance. Considering that he had some connection to Xanthe, it's possible that he himself never experienced it because he used Xanthe's products.
16) Ella's kids on the other are fairly familiar with the post evolution trance since they don't grow in a corruption free environemnt.
17) There is also a possibility that the connection only applies to individuals connected to very powerful monsters, like the numbered and their direct descendants.
---------
What if the monster parent is dead?
18) I think that the powerful monsters can't die because they operate exclusively through avatars. Any monster that can facilitate a connection during the superhuman's evolution is effectively immortal. The library says that HERO agents have claimed in the past, that the uncategorized monster, which is a corpse, has shown itself to them during their evolutions.
19) For lower level monsters who may die, I think it makes no difference, because their superhuman children can't experience the post evolution trance, nor gain the insights that higher level monsters can instill.
It's a list of facts and insights based on these facts. I compiled this a bit on the fly
so I may have forgotten something.
1) Some monsters and superhumans have the ability to see the genetic traits of an individual and determine the combatibility and the geneology. Some may be able to do both, others can do either.
2) Valravn is able to discern if MC is the son of Body or Memory just by looking at him the first time they meet, while MC is being hunted by the police.
3) Ella can see the combatibility of an individual and lure the correct monster to infect them.
-----------
About chosens and traits:
4) The numbered are powerful beings, so finding an individual that is combatible enough to be their "heir" is a rare occurance. Chosen doesn't mean anything more than that in my opinion. They are not chosen by the numbered, they just happen to be unique most of the time.
5) I believe Ella is wrong. She thinks that it's possible for a chosen to develop traits from the other half of the pair through evolution, but it doesn't work like that. The range of abilities is determined during infection and it's up to the Superhuman, either consciously or unconsciously, to guide the powers towards something useful. If she could see what the MC sees, she would probably know it, but she lacks the experience.
6) If the individual is capable of hosting only one numbered power, they see the numbered during their evolutions.
7) If the individual is capable of hosting both powers, they see the arbiters during their evolution.
8) No matter what monster infects you, if you have combatibility with it's progenitor, you are connected to the progenitor instead. MC got infected by either Body or Memory, but speaks to the Eye. Alice got infected by Fairy but speaks to Ether.
9) If the individual is not capable of hosting a numbered power, they can still get something better than what their monster parent can do, but never reach the top. However some abilities of lower descend can be expressed in a way that are more useful than a poorly expressed numbered's power. For example, the memory reading HERO chick's power is expressed in a much better way than MC's memory reading power. MC could be better at it and he even manages to make it touchless in his third evolution, but she still has developed the better medium while MC prefers to use touch to deliver the memory power, as shown during the Mia scene.
10) However if your combatilibity is low, you need to be affected by the progenitor directly in order to get connected to it's power. This is Michael's case and it's probably a very rare occurence, but Michael managed to prove himself worthy.
----------
But how does infection work?
11) We've seen that depending on the monster, getting infected can be very easy to happen. Michael was infected by a radioactive ray that missed, the Leigong infected the Aldain by just zapping him, Alice got infected by just being in the proximity (not confirmed).
12) It seems to me that any attack that originates from a monster, no matter if it's physical, energy based or mental, has the potential to infect. From there on, it depends on the human's combatibility. If he isn't combatible he just ignores the infection. However the only small indication we have is Michael not getting infected by the Fairy, assuming that the infection happened touchless.
---------
But what is this connection during evolution?
13) Evolution is a human thing. We don't know exactly what the connection between monster parent and superhuman is, but it seems that not everyone connects to his monster parent while evolving.
14) Alexis and Clark used Xanthe's formula to evolve, and neither one of them had the usual drama of the post evolution trance. Some teeth clenching was involved and they were done. This is unlike MC, Alice and Ella's evolution. MC's evolution trances in particular are extreme. He completely loses himself for an extended period of time.
15) I think the catalyst is corruption. Xanthe's formula is sterile and HERO members use the helmet to completely nullify corruption. Non HERO superhumans don't have that choice. Klaus was extremely concerned when MC evolved because he didn't recognize the post evolution trance. Considering that he had some connection to Xanthe, it's possible that he himself never experienced it because he used Xanthe's products.
16) Ella's kids on the other are fairly familiar with the post evolution trance since they don't grow in a corruption free environemnt.
17) There is also a possibility that the connection only applies to individuals connected to very powerful monsters, like the numbered and their direct descendants.
---------
What if the monster parent is dead?
18) I think that the powerful monsters can't die because they operate exclusively through avatars. Any monster that can facilitate a connection during the superhuman's evolution is effectively immortal. The library says that HERO agents have claimed in the past, that the uncategorized monster, which is a corpse, has shown itself to them during their evolutions.
19) For lower level monsters who may die, I think it makes no difference, because their superhuman children can't experience the post evolution trance, nor gain the insights that higher level monsters can instill.
- Jun 22, 2017
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Considering that we can always know how much corruption Mc has and that he is able to enter the trance in both his 2 and 3 evolution with no corruption at all i don't think this is the main factor, though it could be said that it makes the existing connection stronger (high corruption Mc can understand monsters better in general).
I think Klaus was worried because he didn't know much about evolutions in general, maybe he knew that the serum was able to make people evolve and outside from that there was a high chance of monsterfying, so when Mc started to act strange he assumed he was starting to become a monster.
- Oct 14, 2019
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That and the fact that the serum that Klaus use was a defect where it either wasn't as potent or that it increase the likely of a superhuman becoming a monster as Klaus was looking more monsteras as the fight drag own. Where he was growing horns, his teeth was becoming more shape and animalist, as well as his eyes and pupil looking more demonic, made me think that Xanthe purposely give Klaus the serum as test to see how it would respond to a superhuman evolving.
- Jul 13, 2021
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MC's third evolution involved a lot of corruption because it was triggered by getting overloaded with unfiltered monster material. The second one though yes, can be achieved with no corruption and the result is the same.
You are probably right and I'm overreaching with corruption. I'm making quite a few assumptions here, one of which is that corruption works differently than how the game seemingly presents it. As I've said in an earlier post, I consider corruption to be an indicator showing how much the individual thinks and acts like a monster, or a better way to phrase it would be how much kinship he feels with monsters. Though it possible that MC already has a monster inside him so the rules may not apply to him like the others.
Can't prove any of that though, so for the time being, it's probably safer to go with my second theory, that only the cream of the crop can connect.
Edit: The only thing in game that indicates my corruption theory has some merit is this piece of dialogue from Del on corruption:
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Laurie also describes corruption as the voice in the back of your head urging you to kill etc. However in practice this isn't what happens ( to MC at least). With or without corruption, the instances where monsters talk to us don't change. Just the understanding of the language. They also say different things, which is quite a riddle.
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- Jan 9, 2021
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- Jan 9, 2021
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You can still have zero corruption though, any corruption the game gives for that evolution is based on not wearing the helmet.
- Aug 21, 2018
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That's your Hall of fame. The blueballs of our fellow perverts remember the tease we endured. Do not forget brothers because the foe will be back to drow us in sorrow and madness; but we will endure as we believe that update gonna be lit as fuck XD.
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I found...something. Maybe. I don't know. You know the green-haired researcher that the MC impersonated in order to infiltrate HERO for Tiffany? Her name is Julie. "Well watch it douchebag! I'm a very important person you know!" she said at the time and I didn't think much more of her.
You know Christie's idiot friend who tried to bully Ella in St Artorius Middle School with green paint? The one who got to see what Ella really is. Her name was Julie. Christie says that Julie was livid when she started hanging out with Ella in both versions, but there's an additional line if you devour Christie (you monster): "We became close friends of after that, having a lot of fun, usually at Julie's expense..." The only difference I can see between what Christie tells you and the more "direct" method.
It's probably someone else. Not many people graduated that year, but there are only three named characters in that flashback and WW didn't have to give Julie a name.
Then in Dead End 37, while "Origin" is running wild, we hear a random "Julie! Watch out!" Assuming it's the green-haired girl and not a third Julie, what was she doing in the Battle of the Diamonds? Wasn't she a researcher?
I know that doesn't amount to much, but I keep wondering: how did Xanthe know what Ella's powers were like at Level 1?
Probably nothing, but possibly something. Thought I'd share.
You know Christie's idiot friend who tried to bully Ella in St Artorius Middle School with green paint? The one who got to see what Ella really is. Her name was Julie. Christie says that Julie was livid when she started hanging out with Ella in both versions, but there's an additional line if you devour Christie (you monster): "We became close friends of after that, having a lot of fun, usually at Julie's expense..." The only difference I can see between what Christie tells you and the more "direct" method.
It's probably someone else. Not many people graduated that year, but there are only three named characters in that flashback and WW didn't have to give Julie a name.
Then in Dead End 37, while "Origin" is running wild, we hear a random "Julie! Watch out!" Assuming it's the green-haired girl and not a third Julie, what was she doing in the Battle of the Diamonds? Wasn't she a researcher?
I know that doesn't amount to much, but I keep wondering: how did Xanthe know what Ella's powers were like at Level 1?
Probably nothing, but possibly something. Thought I'd share.
- Aug 21, 2018
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Now that's 5 dimensional thinking or maybe i'm just drunk WOW first the child groomer on the grimdank got me like shittttttt wtf? But now this got me like wut? Maybe julie is the name of W.W Bully thats why he names 3 characters like that maybe W.W is a she and her name is ella that would explain why the cunt has more plot armor than a wuxia MC XD
- Dec 3, 2018
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You onto something there mah boi. Now she's just some ol minor character (for now) but if I remember right unlike most minor characters we see (be they male or female) she has a face that isn't obscured by a shadow of some sort. Why give her a more detailed face than usual for a minor character if not to bring her back later on. Now that's just goin off the face thing, could be wrong and weird just wanted to put more effort into a one off character.
- Jan 9, 2021
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Xanthe could easily have been monitoring Ella, or they knew from Zack... The importance of that information is Ella has been on HERO's radar for a long time...
As for the Julie's : it could very well be one and the same person... But it could be just coincidence...
I think we should expect the possibility the St. Arturius Massacre is just a cover-up...
Only two surviving, Ella and Christie, so we only have her eyewitness report of what happened to Ella before...
We know MC does not remember how his eyes got scarred, we know Christie tells us what she remembers, her story is the same if we devour her... A superhuman that can change or erase memories isn't that far fetched...
Ella mentions somewhere she is "sort of" orphan too...
But until we get the complete story, it's just a lot speculation, the St. Arturius Massacre, MC's eyes and mother, Zack Zaman's team and their defeat, Ella and MC being the only 2 survivors of some group and Ella watching MC all these years. In some way they're connected, we just don't know how....
- Aug 30, 2019
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I think it adds detail, I respect authors a hell of a lot more for referencing little detail wayyyy back so if I ever reread I can be like: "Oh shit! You didn't have to but that's cool you didn't forget about that character!" Regardless if it's major or not.
It's like when action movies sometimes obey the laws of physics or respect injuries, it's a small thing in the grand scheme, but when it DOES appear is appreciated none the less.
Edit: Also OF COURSE out of ALLL the students that died that year the ONE person who bullied Ella initially survived. It's like if Thanos snapped away half the universe and ALLLLL of the Infinity War cast survived to go kick his ass immediately