- Aug 30, 2019
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You and vogelbeest have that in common I'd wager. Luckily your incoherence is entertaining plus you're a thread homie.
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- Aug 30, 2019
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One would say he'd be able to "shut her ass up" badum chhh!~
Or perhaps he got the "ass" end of that deal.
Get it?
- Jul 13, 2021
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This quote is about corruption, not evolution. It isn't relevant to what I'm talking about. I can't know how corruption will affect MC in the future, but from the current knowledge, it offers some minor powerups (and that's mostly when accompanied by usage of abilities), and Nyx claims that it also offers some quirks and some extra abilities not necessarily related to the superhuman's powers.
MC himself is very connected to the Eye and his monster parents even outside of evolution, no matter his corruption level. We have seen effects like those that Del describes. They try to help him both with "advice" and something more tangible. For example the Eye tries to tell him that he is under Jake's influence, and later during prison it helps by breaking Jake's command. However there is no power gained.
Evolution though is a unique event. During MC's second evolution, the Eye says "take our power". I can only read this as "some form of power travels from the monster(s) to the superhuman". My theory is that the power travels through the connection facilitated by the evolution. After all we've seen that connections like this can have actual physical effects, like when Authority tries to assault MC for killing Jake. If you guys have some other theory why the Eye would say that, I'd like to hear it.
- Jun 11, 2021
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- Jul 13, 2021
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She is a shapeshifter, she can accomodate him...
- Apr 2, 2022
- 217
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Hollyshit.The Story and writing of this game is one of the BEST I've ever seen. The action scenes and fighting are fucking amazing too+ A good music theme that matches the rhythm of the game.
- Jan 9, 2021
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The infection is basically another lifeform joining with you. After you get infected you die and get reborn as a symbiosis.
Aglaecwif tells us she will destroy our "vessel" if we don't agree to breed her. The eye tells us "who can you trust if not yourself?" If we get too much corruption we monsterfy and the other part of the symbiosis takes control...
In some way the infection spreads and forms some sort of hivemind network, probably just very primitive but still, it makes sense to give feedback to the Apostles for finding promising locations for infection across the galaxy... During our evolutions both parts of the symbiosis interact more, so we just have better access during that time, resulting in being able to "travel" to the Apostles and talk with them. Since monsters don't have evolutions, it seems to me that's just a side effect... If it's not, the infection can only be seeking out species that have evolutions? That almost sounds likes it's designed...
The eye is just the other part of the symbiosis, he can break Jake's control because he's part of you... Or atleast he's always there, not just during evolutions... But the eye is the link to the Apostles, the eye is the part that gathers all your memories and information from your dna once the evolution starts, him saying "take our power" more or less is saying the result of the evolution is coming now... Perhaps his goal is to become a single entity instead of a symbiosis and that's why he's asking for your agreement? But there's not much else in these talks during our evolutions... our reasons, our goals, our agreement? He tells who to eat and gives some more advice... But it's all for reaching the optimal final result...
The fact that the eye calls Jake "the failed heir of Authority" is another thing... If Jake is still alive he can still evolve right?
So that would mean the part of Jakes symbiosis that could inherit the powers of "Order" is gone? He's still a superhuman...
But okay, lets see what new information WW brings us with our 4th evolution...
- Jun 22, 2017
- 357
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The music in this game is so good that i downloaded 47 tracks of it to my phone to listen in a daily basis
.
- Jul 13, 2021
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This gave me a lot of things to think about. Good stuff.The infection is basically another lifeform joining with you. After you get infected you die and get reborn as a symbiosis.
Aglaecwif tells us she will destroy our "vessel" if we don't agree to breed her. The eye tells us "who can you trust if not yourself?" If we get too much corruption we monsterfy and the other part of the symbiosis takes control...
In some way the infection spreads and forms some sort of hivemind network, probably just very primitive but still, it makes sense to give feedback to the Apostles for finding promising locations for infection across the galaxy... During our evolutions both parts of the symbiosis interact more, so we just have better access during that time, resulting in being able to "travel" to the Apostles and talk with them. Since monsters don't have evolutions, it seems to me that's just a side effect... If it's not, the infection can only be seeking out species that have evolutions? That almost sounds likes it's designed...
The eye is just the other part of the symbiosis, he can break Jake's control because he's part of you... Or atleast he's always there, not just during evolutions... But the eye is the link to the Apostles, the eye is the part that gathers all your memories and information from your dna once the evolution starts, him saying "take our power" more or less is saying the result of the evolution is coming now... Perhaps his goal is to become a single entity instead of a symbiosis and that's why he's asking for your agreement? But there's not much else in these talks during our evolutions... our reasons, our goals, our agreement? He tells who to eat and gives some more advice... But it's all for reaching the optimal final result...
The fact that the eye calls Jake "the failed heir of Authority" is another thing... If Jake is still alive he can still evolve right?
So that would mean the part of Jakes symbiosis that could inherit the powers of "Order" is gone? He's still a superhuman...
But okay, lets see what new information WW brings us with our 4th evolution...
Some thoughts:
1)
I don't think that high corruption is the cause for monsterification, or at least not directly. It doesn't make sense to me because monsters infect humans for a reason, and that's to reach level 5 and perform whatever function they want them too. Ella says this and she seems very matter-of-fact about it.
If it's the cause for monsterification, then it essentially means that corruption is extremely counterproductive and an oxymoron, because for one it facilitates a better connection between superhuman and monsterparent, but on the other hand it substantially decreases the chances that the superhumans will succeed in reaching their potential and perform their purpose.
If that's the case, perhaps there is a fundamental flaw with monsters. They are by design self-defeating and they require superhumans with high sense of humanity not just to spread their influence, but actually avoid extinction. However I don't get such vibes from the game and I think that monster society is fairly secure, at least for the time being.
This is what I think happens:
At some point, I think it's Ella that says that exposure to monster material, especially of a related monster, can trigger an evolution. However since most monsters are descendants of a select few (arbiters, apostles, and whatever is higher up in the hierarchy), by being exposed to huge amounts of monster material, eventually you will be exposed to enough material that is related to your monster relative.
Corruption facilitates better connections between all monsters, not just monster-relatives. It allows the superhuman to better understand the language and their ways.
We also know that when eating superhumans, it's possible to be connected to their monster-parents, or some form of their consciousness. Happened with Jake and Danica.
We also know that power is the catalyst of a successful evolution, decreasing the chances for monsterification. Power seems to affect control, body capability and the effect of abilities.
So I think that whenever the superhuman is exposed to monster material, he gets a connection. He also gets some corruption (through infection probably). High corruption + a lot of connections ends up being disorienting and even maddening. So it breaks the superhuman's focus, he can't control his power, so by extension he can't control his evolution, and monsterifies.
I think that high corruption is the best thing that can happen to the relationship between superhuman and monster-parent, it increases the chances to both evolve and understand the purpose of the infection, but it's dangerous because it invites other entities to unintentionally mess with your mind, leading to monsterification. /Edit: With high enough power, even under these conditions, the superhuman can become essentially immune to monsterification even under these conditions.
____________________________
2)
I agree with your view on infection being involved in a symbiotic relationship and having some sort of sentience, or at least being able to perform it's functionality autonomously, facilitating connections, providing the framework for the abilities to manifest and probably more.
However I don't think that there is a balance that must be kept and as long as any side of the symbiosis gets stronger, the whole gets stronger and gets closer to reaching level 5 and fullfilling it's purpose.
____________________________
3)
I can't really see the Eye as the other half of the symbiosis. It seems to have a very strong sense of self, it calls itself an Origin and speaks to the MC as the Ether speaks to Alice. I have a hard time picturing one as being the abstract consciousness of our infection, while the other is a full blown Apostle.
I do however think that MC and Eye exist in some sort of symbiosis but it happened before the MC got his superpowers, from whatever accident damaged his eyes. I think it's a very weak avatar of the Body+Memory Arbiter that can only survive through symbiosis, like a virus, and tries to influence the MC to succeed in facilitating it's return to a "full existence".
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- Dec 3, 2018
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I wonder if we'll get the option at some point to attempt to eat Ella's body. Now hear me out, yeah we all know she's alive but if MC would attempt to eat her I wonder if she'd break her masquerade she has goin on of being dead (ultimate corruption food right there). Might lead to a bad end of sorts although no clue if HERO would even allow that.
I recall a few pages back people talkin bout how people couldn't get a read on her body (MC included?) but if he attempted to eat her perhaps he could get a read?
I recall a few pages back people talkin bout how people couldn't get a read on her body (MC included?) but if he attempted to eat her perhaps he could get a read?
- Jun 22, 2017
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I think Mc eating Ella's body is possible as long as it doesn't result in her death, a bad ending is a possiblility, he tries and Ella takes over his body, or maybe if it is a fake body and he discovers that by eating it.
My guess is that Mc will eventually sneak in her cell (maybe with some help) and she will reveal she is alive or he will realize that by touching her body.
Eating Ella for real is something i think will happen, maybe even a requirement for a corrupt run, since eye boy is giving hints of eating people as a condition to reach full potential.
- Jan 9, 2021
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It actually depends on how you look at it in terms of large scale infection. Monsters don't have evolutions, perhaps they are suitable vessels from the start. The fairy, Valravn, Aglaecwif are examples of intelligent monsters... But how smart is the average monster? Valravn must have been upgraded, a raven is smart but not Valravn smart...
The more basic monsters still infect others or serve as food or cannon fodder... A superhuman monsterfying is just the same. Monsters can still communicate with other monsters, it's just superhumans can't really communicate with monsterfied ones.. Eating other superhuman spawns for the species as a whole, is just as counterproductive, losing a superhuman due to monsterfication might just be seen as a not suitable vessel, so no real loss.
Even if some factors reduce chances for succes, the scale of the infection can still yield the numbers, the monsters infect world after world... If the general purpose is just to bring back these 6 arbiters, it's just a matter of time and enough worlds... If it's about bringing back millions or even billions, the situation is completely different of course...
- Apr 26, 2021
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Just finished my review. Short version: Game is amazing. Story is exceptional with few plot holes. No idiot plot, with characters thinking tactically and with action scenes that are logical and easy to follow and make sense given the development of the characters involved. Art and sound effects make it exciting and the plot twists are genuinely surprising. 5 out of 5!
- May 1, 2018
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- Aug 30, 2019
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You know that's actually funny you mention that, I don't think anywhere in the lore or otherwise it has ever been mentioned whether or not monsters can evolve. I do find it a little odd that a Superhuman like say, Oscar, could theoretically evolve stronger than it's easily defeated monster counterpart. You're telling me humans are more compatible with the monster gene than the literal source of said monster gene? It doesn't really make sense to me.
The only way I could try to make sense of it is that they have a little chat with their Apostle or Origin upon evolution (like the MC or Alice) and THAT'S what jumpstarts your evolution every time. I can't remember if Jake ever mentioned if he encountered the 1st during his evolution, but if he does it all but furthers my point.
We have had some cases though where monsters have GOTTEN stronger though, it is possible just never from an evolutionary stance like we've seen with humans.
-Valravn is the prime example, he was a crow turned by the 7th, but I believe he also mentions being trained by his master I believe, even if we ignore that part; he still hunted and ate hearts to make up for his lost strength.
-Kenny is another, dude went from something we could bitch slap through a floor, to a mid Lvl 1 and still growing as time went on. He took was consuming stuff to get stronger.
-Angelia's Monster that grew her breasts was yet another stronger off of eating, and while some may use the excuse it was BECAUSE of her breasts, it also used our breasts as well, almost making an infinite power cheat code.
-And of course there's Monster Deryl, his kind's job is LITERALLY to make a stronger variant of it's, evolve if you will, and it succeed via grant it now Superhuman Deryl becoming a Lvl 3 in a little over a month.
I do wonder...how did we evolve again? Ah yes, CONSUMING through Deryl's monster body. Our monster parents are constantly telling us to just fucking eat everything, hell even the Origin says so as well. Whether or not monsters CAN actually evolve I'm sure is up to debate, as we have personally never seen it ourselves, but so far it's not looking like it's entirely impossible, we just haven't seen it yet.
- Dec 3, 2018
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I recall there being a scene in the HERO classroom where the ranks of monsters are talked about. Now I have no clue if monsters can evolve but we know they all have assigned ranks. The Minyaks if I'm not wrong are the lowest ranked thus far in the game (might be wrong about that) but we do see 2 come together to become a giant variant. Perhaps in certain cases that would be considered their 'evolution' and thus their rank was 'increased' but I'm unsure what it'd be from the their usual (even MC at his level at the time was able to take it on with minimal difficulty from what I recall).
More or less, it might just depend on the monster. I'm more curious about seeing those very high ranked or special variants of monsters (I think those were mentioned in the HERO class as well and are probably what we could consider 'evolutions' of the standard monster variants HERO fights) that are stronger than the typical variant of monsters we see, the 2 Minyaks coming together might be a special variant in that case but I have no clue that might just be something Minyaks can do whenever or under certain circumstances.
My mind is foggy on the HERO class stuff so please do correct me if I'm wrong on anything.
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- Jul 13, 2021
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My theory is that superhumans can evolve thanks to their human genes, not the monster ones. Althought this is speculation.
Valravn should be able to evolve. He was turned like a superhuman does (superaven?), but there is what I understand as a "strategic silence" when the game references his power. I think the reason he can't is due to him not being human, but an animal, although this doesn't really make sense to me since all organic life can "evolve" in the Darwinian sense. Perhaps there were other circumstances during his turning that aren't explored yet. I do think however that is wrong to categorize him as a "monster". He is something unique (at least till proven otherwise).
Edit: Also Valravn is somewhere between 800 and 1000 years old assuming that crusades happened in a similar period in that universe. That's more than enough time to reach level 5 and even forget about it.
We also have these pieces of lore:
Research on Tainted:
This research technically leaves open the possibility that some monsters may be able to evolve.
Narrator during Alice's evolution
I think at this point is kind of a stretch to assume that monsters can evolve like superhumans do. Sure we know that they can increase their power thanks to Deryl, but it's not exactly evolution in the sense that we know. It's more like the Zerg definition that is more "hand's on". You eat and you get stronger. You use augmentations, organic or mechanical, or some type of "alchemy". These types of things.
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- Jun 22, 2017
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At least we know that whatever the process monsters go through it's not like the one that happens to superhumans.
HERO leaves the possibility open but maybe it's because they found monsters too strong to be "normal" and for the lack of complete knowledge they assume it might be because of evolution, they also know about relics and how they increase the power of monsters.
The narration during Alice's evolution seems to show the monster's perspective and from their side looks like they can't evolve.
Personally i think superhumans can get stronger than their monster parents because they are not getting their powers per se, when they evolve they are instead connecting to either their numbered, arbiter or maybe even something stronger. Deus bad end shows that Mc connected to (apparently) another plane of existence, maybe they connect to something at the place of origin of the monsters.
- Aug 30, 2019
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No you're right, but the ranks are H.E.R.O's iteration of how to categorize monsters based on how difficult they are. From this we can determine that a large majority of them are relatively the same strength, like the sewer Minyaks. But whether or not they can become STRONGER through a sudo evolution by talking with their ancestors is up for debate is what I was trying to get at.
- Aug 30, 2019
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That makes sense, I didn't remember that key piece of dialogue during Alice's evolution. So then I'm assuming that's why the Origins want to come down to earth via a Superhuman vessel. If they do it that way they CAN become stronger than what they already are in essence. Sorry I have a terrible memory as prevalent in this thread, but I did feel like I should've mentioned it because it's a topic I feel like I don't see a lot about; being whether or not Monsters can Evolve that is. Origins thing is up for debate