VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.991] [WeirdWorld]

[kibaris]

Honest question, remind me why we think aglaecwif is a spawn of the fourth?

Because I was looking through the dialouge for the section with her, and things don't quite add up for me.

So, the section I remembered being pointed to for the hinted at connection says, as of the latest version:

(If spawn of the fourth)
label ellainvmonster4:
Aglaecwif: "Swa þú eart offspring of þæs fēowerðan ēac? Hm, how mysterious... "
chatgpt translation: "You are the descendant of the fourth ancestor? Hm, how mysterious..."

(If spawn of the third)
label ellainvmonster3:
Aglaecwif "Eart þū ofspring þæs priddan ēac? Thy grēata hlāford traveleth far and wide, nis hit swilce?"
chatgpt translation: "Are you offspring of the third also? Your great lord travels far and wide, is it not so?"

Now, none of this seems to suggest a direct connection between aglaecwif and the fourth, but I could obviously be mistaken or missing something.

With that in mind I went searching through the backlog of posts and hit on an earlier discussion about this particular section, and noticed something curious.


Notice the changes in what aglaecwif/"Female" says here.

Assuming this is a direct quote from the code/game from that time, it would seem like the dialogue was altered in subsequent updates to change the meaning of what aglaecwif says.

Thoughts?

Really interesting and maybe that you'r right !
i searched a little and she is directly inspired by Grendel's mother in Beowulf poem, a lot of references,like daemon, witch, birthing monster, dark magic, she also live in a cave , Beowulf can impregnate her like mc ,the pact is also similar since she ask for a son after losing one in exchange of making him a rich and powerfull king ( and in game we can ask for power and skill) and Valravn hint about that pact beeing dangerous and that the fruit of that pact "one day come for thee", and Beowulf have to kill the fruit of that pact too, a gold-skinned male who took the form of a dragon.
But it's true that she probably chosen of the 3th and not the 4th because in the film adaptation, she can take the form of a beautiful nude woman,and her son the form of a dragon and Shapeshifting is 3th trait, but her talking a better english after fucking mc suggest a memory trait too. ( but both 3th and 4th can use each other trait )

 

[ProgessiveDetailed]

Damn, I was enjoying this game a lot.
I was actually playing for the plot instead of the porn.
But after the fight with Valravn the writing took a dive and everything feels half-assed...

how so?

 

[Dipasimaan]

but both 3th and 4th can use each other trait

Yeah the apostles can, not the monsters or superhumans, not if they aren't of dual traits but Aglaecwif surely isn't.
It's more probable that she is of the 4th lineage instead of the 3rd's for various reasons as the dialogues that more than one posted above, the fact that she talks more modern english after staying in contact with the MC and the fact that at the moment of her appereance it was hinted that she just "materialized" herself out of thin air, like some sort of memory form like others already theorized

 

[kibaris]

Yeah the apostles can, not the monsters or superhumans, not if they aren't of dual traits but Aglaecwif surely isn't.
It's more probable that she is of the 4th lineage instead of the 3rd's for various reasons as the dialogues that more than one posted above, the fact that she talks more modern english after staying in contact with the MC and the fact that at the moment of her appereance it was hinted that she just "materialized" herself out of thin air, like some sort of memory form like others already theorized

monster and superhuman can, Mc can, Ella can, and that monster looking like Syla can

Spoiler

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But of course she could still be 4th chosen, just that 3th is also possible .

 

[myst0501]

Yeah the apostles can, not the monsters or superhumans, not if they aren't of dual traits but Aglaecwif surely isn't.
It's more probable that she is of the 4th lineage instead of the 3rd's for various reasons as the dialogues that more than one posted above, the fact that she talks more modern english after staying in contact with the MC and the fact that at the moment of her appereance it was hinted that she just "materialized" herself out of thin air, like some sort of memory form like others already theorized

What if she's not from either lineage?

Spoiler: Random Theory

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[Gtdead]

This is my old attempt to translate the text with chatgpt.


It seems that this has been changed. Because now Aglaecwif says:


Good catch myst0501

Edit:
This is a recent change which happened in 0.975. I still have the 0.971 on my PC and checked the script

 

[kibaris]

What if she's not from either lineage?

Spoiler: Random Theory

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I like your theory, and it could be a real possibility, i made a similar one but with Christie the 9th and her obsession for truth with Ella and the saint artorius massacre ^^

 

[Dipasimaan]

monster and superhuman can, Mc can, Ella can, and that monster looking like Syla can

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But of course she could still be 4th chosen, just that 3th is also possible .

No they normally can't. Like I said at the first phrase, if they haven't dual traits like the MC or Deus possibly normally a superhuman can only use his monster parent's powers. Obviously there are some inconsistencies as, if the monster parent has percentage of memory body and dark even if in little parts it's obvious that if someone concentrate hard enough could theoretically utilize both traits and possibly more but it's so nigh-impossible that noone ever tried and even if they did it's not like having dual traits or 50/50 of twins traits. I'm sorry if it's not extremely well-written or explained but right now I can't do it better.

Also Ella can't use both of Memory and Body traits as she was infected by the 3rd and she wasn't compatible with the 4th trait so she could never use it. What you implicated in your post about aglaecwif possibly having both traits couldn't be possible as for monsters it isn't exactly possible as as we know to have both traits divided in 50/50

I admit that I have not a good counterargument for the strenght eater but I guess that it has a good portion of both but not exactly half of both

 

[Gtdead]

Since the last update, I think we have to rethink our theories about Ella and how dual trait spawn work.

- Ella knows who MC is, who his parents are, and what his compatibility is.
- Ella says that MC is just like her.
- Ella considers herself a failure.
- During the Body dream she says that memory is not "her strong suit" so it leaves a possibility that she is actually capable of using it a bit.

So what I think is happening here is that Ella is supposed to be a half & half and just happened to be turned by Body, either by chance or circumstance. She just never managed to develop her Memory trait because she is a "failure", despite having a compatibility with it, and this is also why Memory is so active in her life.

With the new knowledge, a lot of the ideas we had about Apostlespawns are not correct. MC for example is not 100% compatible to both traits, he is a half & half. We also learned that Apostles in general prefer high purity spawns, while the Evolution Twins prefer strict half & half. So we need to start answering these questions:

1. Why would Ella care about using the memory trait? No other Apostle spawn (except MC) was ever capable of using the twin trait
2. Why would Ella consider herself a failure if she only had compatibility to Body?
3. Why Memory is so interested in Ella if she is supposed to have Body compatibility? Does she actually have high Body compatibility?
4. Why did she fail to manifest Memory powers?

I don't have developed the new theory enough to give answers, but I think the good old "Ella is the spawn of the 3rd and that's that" is not correct.

 

[JmTrad]

Damn, I was enjoying this game a lot.
I was actually playing for the plot instead of the porn.
But after the fight with Valravn the writing took a dive and everything feels half-assed...

I think you are just sad that MC is forced to bow to H.E.R.O. for the time being, because the lore is only getting better.

 

[kibaris]

Since the last update, I think we have to rethink our theories about Ella and how dual trait spawn work.

- Ella knows who MC is, who his parents are, and what his compatibility is.
- Ella says that MC is just like her.
- Ella considers herself a failure.
- During the Body dream she says that memory is not "her strong suit" so it leaves a possibility that she is actually capable of using it a bit.

So what I think is happening here is that Ella is supposed to be a half & half and just happened to be turned by Body, either by chance or circumstance. She just never managed to develop her Memory trait because she is a "failure", despite having a compatibility with it, and this is also why Memory is so active in her life.

With the new knowledge, a lot of the ideas we had about Apostlespawns are not correct. MC for example is not 100% compatible to both traits, he is a half & half. We also learned that Apostles in general prefer high purity spawns, while the Evolution Twins prefer strict half & half. So we need to start answering these questions:

1. Why would Ella care about using the memory trait? No other Apostle spawn (except MC) was ever capable of using the twin trait
2. Why would Ella consider herself a failure if she only had compatibility to Body?
3. Why Memory is so interested in Ella if she is supposed to have Body compatibility? Does she actually have high Body compatibility?
4. Why did she fail to manifest Memory powers?

I don't have developed the new theory enough to give answers, but I think the good old "Ella is the spawn of the 3rd and that's that" is not correct.

Ella said that she can help mc with memory but isnt her strong suit, so maybe she can but not as well a she should?.
All other superhuman and monster linked to 4th or 3th could use both so far and in this last update Ella hint that she possibly can too.
For Aglaegwiff , i learned that her source of inspiration is strongly linked to water " Grendel's mother has always been associated with the water and may well have been based on an ancient Slavic water-goddess or spirit. ", and with Aglaecwiff change being made during the twin arc and their monster being strenght eater, a fish linked to the great ocean + Liz and Amber affinity to water, maybe myst isnt that far with is random theory about Aglaecwiff and 10th ^^

 

[JmTrad]

Since the last update, I think we have to rethink our theories about Ella and how dual trait spawn work.

- Ella knows who MC is, who his parents are, and what his compatibility is.
- Ella says that MC is just like her.
- Ella considers herself a failure.
- During the Body dream she says that memory is not "her strong suit" so it leaves a possibility that she is actually capable of using it a bit.

So what I think is happening here is that Ella is supposed to be a half & half and just happened to be turned by Body, either by chance or circumstance. She just never managed to develop her Memory trait because she is a "failure", despite having a compatibility with it, and this is also why Memory is so active in her life.

With the new knowledge, a lot of the ideas we had about Apostlespawns are not correct. MC for example is not 100% compatible to both traits, he is a half & half. We also learned that Apostles in general prefer high purity spawns, while the Evolution Twins prefer strict half & half. So we need to start answering these questions:

1. Why would Ella care about using the memory trait? No other Apostle spawn (except MC) was ever capable of using the twin trait
2. Why would Ella consider herself a failure if she only had compatibility to Body?
3. Why Memory is so interested in Ella if she is supposed to have Body compatibility? Does she actually have high Body compatibility?
4. Why did she fail to manifest Memory powers?

I don't have developed the new theory enough to give answers, but I think the good old "Ella is the spawn of the 3rd and that's that" is not correct.

I have a bad feeling about MC past...

 

[Ddlc]

1. Why would Ella care about using the memory trait? No other Apostle spawn (except MC) was ever capable of using the twin trait
2. Why would Ella consider herself a failure if she only had compatibility to Body?
3. Why Memory is so interested in Ella if she is supposed to have Body compatibility? Does she actually have high Body compatibility?
4. Why did she fail to manifest Memory powers?

I don't have developed the new theory enough to give answers, but I think the good old "Ella is the spawn of the 3rd and that's that" is not correct.

1. We know that most apostles want pure spawn and only Body and Memory want 50/50, but from Syla's words it's possible to imagine that this is a recent development, if that's the case maybe they wanted a 50/50 with both traits but Ella never progressed much on her memory, Mc is the first like that because it's supposed to be even more rare than being pure, and because none of the other apostles and even Body and Memory didn't care before.

2. Do we know her compatibility with both traits ? i really can't remember anyone mentioning it before, i mean she clearly is VERY compatible with body but do we know if she is or isn't with memory?

3. Maybe she also is 50/50 or close to that but instead developing both she just strived to body powers, her thinking that she is a feailure could be from realizing that even at her 5 evolution she didnt grow on the memory trait enough.

4. Now that's interesting, in Mc case he had both traits from the start but grew too much on the body side, his father as a pure body and mother almost pure memory so maybe thats the reason. Could also be because while being constantly in danger his powers were forced to depend on body for survival, mind state is also a thing and his will to fight lead to developing body.
In Ella's case we don't really now but it seems like this was both not the plan and a dissapointment to her, Body and Memory.

 

[TerminusPrime]

1. Why would Ella care about using the memory trait? No other Apostle spawn (except MC) was ever capable of using the twin trait
2. Why would Ella consider herself a failure if she only had compatibility to Body?

Ella needs a superhuman for a specific role. She's been making multiple superhumans for different roles that she needs for her plans. She considers herself a failure because she never developed the powers to fulfill the role herself.
She turned MC, Jake and a few others as Minyak spawn for a specific purpose that she needs. Much earlier in this thread it was theorized it was some kind of telepathy since that's the one aspect that seems to be in common between the Memory trait, the Authority trait and Minyak powers.
It's also not something good since she spends a good deal of time when she's walking away from the frat party feeling guilty that it's likely going to be the MC she has to use, and that she happens to like him. Though Ella gets a few points in being willing to subject herself to whatever mysterious fate she had planned if she had manifested the Memory trait with her 5th Evolution.
That's not the only specific superhuman that she needs for her plans, Deryl and his compatibility with the Rebis also factored heavily into things, but Deryl turned out just like she needed, and she didn't seem particularly guilty over what happened to him.

 

[RAYZ3L]

I decided to do a full replay, the first in quite a while and damn this game is getting long, not that I mind as it felt really good to play some of the parts I have basically forgotten.

I noticed something when playing the battle of the diamonds part however. The Michael part I usually speed through but this time i decided to not do that and while I remembered that Michael had some strong resistance to energy I didnt remember that in the fight he tanks several lightning strikes and basically shrugs them off. His fight with Met might not be as loopsided as we thought. Met might be a evo above him but Michael is basically a direct counter it seems.

People always forget that The spawn of apostle like MC.ella . And the others are fairly stronger and have higher power level than the normal monster spawn and im not included the big dogs like levels 4n 5 and the mc who is spawn of 2 apostles and his parent perfect candidate of the same twins apostle, let's not forget he is somewhere the host of a being like that arbiter eye think that give me reference like itadori n skuna

 

[harem.king]

2. Why would Ella consider herself a failure if she only had compatibility to Body?

She was TOLD she is a failure by the divine ancestor during her 3rd evolution when she was... 13? IIRC she was 13 year old at the time

In latest update you get to read the memories of Ella and her classmates during the massacre.
Finally putting to rest the question of "did ella really murder her entire class for the lulz"

And the answer is no. During her 3rd evolution she got possessed by her monster ancestor who, stating she was a failure, would try to fix her by devouring all those human brains.
Culminating in her chopping herself into pieces to prematurely end her evolution to stop herself from harming Christy.

not a single person who used to claim Ella is evil because "she is a child murderer" ever apologized for slandering her

 

[sexoffended]

Ella was stated to have memory power centered on her eyes. She can look at anything and get information on it's structure and function. If she looks at someone with cancer, not only she'll get information on current state of a tumor, but also how to treat it.

 

[jak1165]

So how are people feeling about where the story picked up from previous cliffhanger?

It's even more obvious to me that without Shen, MC absolutely claps the twins

 

[Gtdead]

Ella said that she can help mc with memory but isnt her strong suit, so maybe she can but not as well a she should?.
All other superhuman and monster linked to 4th or 3th could use both so far and in this last update Ella hint that she possibly can too.
For Aglaegwiff , i learned that her source of inspiration is strongly linked to water " Grendel's mother has always been associated with the water and may well have been based on an ancient Slavic water-goddess or spirit. ", and with Aglaecwiff change being made during the twin arc and their monster being strenght eater, a fish linked to the great ocean + Liz and Amber affinity to water, maybe myst isnt that far with is random theory about Aglaecwiff and 10th ^^

Going down this path is a bit of a rabit hole. WW is obviously getting heavy inspiration from religion and folklore. But I really don't think it's a good idea to transfer the attributes of these characters from the various works to this game.

Now we can create a list like that:
Aglaecwif - Chosen of 3rd - Name taken from a demon? troll? not sure what she is, from Beowulf.
Syla - Chosen of 4th - Name taken from a demonic spirit in Arabian folklore.
Valravn - Chosen of 7th - Name taken from a raven in danish mythology.
Eisheth Zenumin - Chosen of 9th - Name taken from a demon in Zorah.
Rebis - Chosen of 12th - It's name means the result of a great alchemical work.

There's also Lochan Deus, which translates to God of the Lake and since he somehow sets MC on his path and "protects" him from deviations, perhaps he is inspired by Nimue (Lady of the Lake)? I can't find any other explanation for his name.

I have a bad feeling about MC past...

View attachment 3301522

Frankly, SIN care so little about MC that I doubt Tanos has played any important part in MC's past. Perhaps there was some overlap by accident or by circumstance, but probably not enough for that thread to worth the trouble pulling.

1. We know that most apostles want pure spawn and only Body and Memory want 50/50, but from Syla's words it's possible to imagine that this is a recent development, if that's the case maybe they wanted a 50/50 with both traits but Ella never progressed much on her memory, Mc is the first like that because it's supposed to be even more rare than being pure, and because none of the other apostles and even Body and Memory didn't care before.

2. Do we know her compatibility with both traits ? i really can't remember anyone mentioning it before, i mean she clearly is VERY compatible with body but do we know if she is or isn't with memory?

3. Maybe she also is 50/50 or close to that but instead developing both she just strived to body powers, her thinking that she is a feailure could be from realizing that even at her 5 evolution she didnt grow on the memory trait enough.

4. Now that's interesting, in Mc case he had both traits from the start but grew too much on the body side, his father as a pure body and mother almost pure memory so maybe thats the reason. Could also be because while being constantly in danger his powers were forced to depend on body for survival, mind state is also a thing and his will to fight lead to developing body.
In Ella's case we don't really now but it seems like this was both not the plan and a dissapointment to her, Body and Memory.

1. I get the sense that this 50/50 idea is Memory's project and she designs hers and her brother's spawn based on this. I really don't get the sense that this is a recent development. If Syla is anything like the other Chosen, she may be thousands of years old. The one thing we can say for sure is that finally, the Arbiter has a chance to be reborn after a long time, and Memory is aware that 50/50 spawns have higher "connection", whatever that may be. It feels very.. planned, to me.

2 & 3. I agree that the main assumption is that Ella failed on the Memory trait, but to be capable of failing in the first place, she has to have compatibility with it. So while we don't know Ella's compatibility, I think it's fair to assume that she is supposed to be compatible with it. So like MC, she has to have a significant percentage of compatibility, if not a perfect 50/50, at least something close. After all Syla says that MC isn't a perfect 50/50 but he seems to be the one.

4. This lack of even the smallest example of Ella being capable of using the Memory trait makes this question really hard. The 4th wouldn't accept Ella if her grasp of the Memory trait was weak anyway, at least if Syla is to be believed. MC wasn't good at Memory too, but he was capable of using it to augment his shapeshifting. Ella seemingly had to build her forms from scratch.

She was TOLD she is a failure by the divine ancestor during her 3rd evolution when she was... 13? IIRC she was 13 year old at the time

not a single person who used to claim Ella is evil because "she is a child murderer" ever apologized for slandering her

You assume that Ella considers herself a failure because she doesn't fit in Memory's plans. This isn't necessary true. Ella wants MC to succeed because he will make "her dreams" come true (deadend2), not Memory's dreams. She also reiterates that she is a failure in deadend3, which is a different outcome of the same scene.

 

[hrhr]

Ella is more weird and mysterious than devana.

I don't see how that matters, if anything if her purpose was disguising herself then it would make no sense to do it in a way that reminds people of her.