VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.991] [WeirdWorld]

[KingAgamemnon]

I'm a bit surprised that people are being distracted by Cole when the real big bad of at least a good chunk of the entire overall plot has already been revealed. Does no one else see it?

Cole:

Is subordinate to Ella, was experimented on by Xanthe Jr, is jealous of the MC, and is just a placeholder for S.I.N leadership until Ella gets back who can't even handle that properly. In his very short tenure he hasn't even been able to keep control of it or prevent it from being hijacked by an enemy and a former lackey, let alone advance its goals and his status has been eclipsed by Shen and Charlie as well. He's a minor lieutenant, a sub-boss at best, who's in over his head and getting played like the mediocre chess piece he is. His one really egregious act, the "killing" of Liz and Amber, was an attempt at mercy and a projection of his own weakness and self-loathing at being unable to resist or overcome Xj. And I'd bet good money he'll fail in even that as he won't have successfully killed them at all.

Xanthe Jr:

Experimented on Ella, experimented on Cole, experimented on Liz and Amber, killed countless sets of twins in his experiments and would likely have done the same to Liz and Amber given the chance to complete his plans, has hijacked S.I.N. and prompted most of their worst crimes, and is the actual driving force behind them now when Langdon only thinks he is. He is the architect of most of the suffering we've seen, he fucked up Ella mentally and emotionally through his experimental tortures which is what set her on the path she's on now. Of all the human antagonists, he's number one in terms of how much harm he's done and how much he's responsible for all the bad shit that has plagued MC.

If I had a gun and two bullets with the two of them in front of me, I'd shoot Xj twice just to make sure. Cole is pathetic and virtually irrelevant in comparison, either he can be flipped or mostly ignored but either way he's a minor player that is getting way more attention than he's worth. There's no purpose in going so hard against a pissant when there are real problems to deal with first.

Well, that tends to happen when Cole is depicted holding Liz's head

 

[Gtdead]

You forgot about two important point:

First Met isnt equal to Evander and it's implied by Met himself.

Evander "It was a worthy blow. I underestimated how much power you could gather."
Met "You telling me you could have gone even harder?"

Personnaly, i take it as Evander tied with only his own pool of power (but it's pure speculation)

It's not that I forgot it. It's that it doesn't make much sense because it's conficting with the rest and Met's behavior during the fight.
Let's put it this way.

From dialogue:
Cole >= Met (According to Met)
Evander >= Met (Accordind to Met) <-- This is the problematic one
Evander < Cole (According to Shen)

This info is conflicting because Met can't be equal to Cole but weaker than Evander. So what is the truth?

Only Met has shown the ability to be precise with his Power reading. He successfully determined that Alice is more powerful than Michael, despite how the battle went, he managed to figure out that "Nathan" is high level despite MC not really using his powers, and he mentioned that he is better than average at reading power when speaking to Charlie. So his opinions carry weight.

1.
"At least as much Power as I do" (refering to Cole), while not precise, has to be accurate. If Cole had 2x or 3x Met's power, that statement wouldn't be accurate in the least. It's unreasonable to expect big differences here, so let's say 1.3x is the ceiling.

2.
Against Evander, I have 2 arguments:
- Met was cocky as fuck. Despite getting blowed up by Evander, he still said that he can take both Twins at the same time. So he probably read their power levels at determined that they aren't up to his level.
- Met was surprised that Evander could output more than expected. This points to his confusion about what happened.
So there has to be a difference between Met's perception and Evander's reality, but again, Met is good at this and we have an easy answer, that Twins are capable of sharing Power.

3.
Syla says that lesser spawn have the potential to be as strong as greater spawn, as long as they are capable of reaching level 3. This makes it so Met's heritage can't be used to determine his growth. It's a matter of training and how efficient he is at increasing his Power. So it's unlikely that Evander in a month, gained enough Power to surpass Met.

4.
Evander said he could output more, but the question is, why he didn't in the first place? This wasn't an easy fight for him and it happened at the end of the tournament. So he didn't really have any reason to hold back. I think he had to hold back, because of how Power sharing between Twins work.

Taking all these into account, the only way I can resolve the ranking problem is to put Met ahead of Evander and reason that it's the Twins' shared pool that allowed him to tie/have the potential to win.

Second it's Mc didnt destroyed the moon twin, they didn't give it their alll because they had to capture mc alive, but what Syla said implie that he should be stronger than one but not both .

Come on, we both saw what happened. SIN wanted the Foxglove twins, they didn't care about capturing MC (or Deryl). And if it wasn't for Shen staying Devana's hand, she would attempt to kill him. Syla is wrong. No matter how she interpreted the fight, the only reason MC lives is because Shen intervened.

In any case, your power ranges are similar to mine. I said 300-400, you said 250-350. So we both agree that they are fairly close to one another and MC has more than them.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Spoiler: MC's True Trait

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[markel1000]

any of you guys catch the stream? tis a shame we are close to the ending

Caught the last hr pretty good

 

[Gtdead]

I'm a bit surprised that people are being distracted by Cole when the real big bad of at least a good chunk of the entire overall plot has already been revealed. Does no one else see it?

Cole:

Is subordinate to Ella, was experimented on by Xanthe Jr, is jealous of the MC, and is just a placeholder for S.I.N leadership until Ella gets back who can't even handle that properly. In his very short tenure he hasn't even been able to keep control of it or prevent it from being hijacked by an enemy and a former lackey, let alone advance its goals and his status has been eclipsed by Shen and Charlie as well. He's a minor lieutenant, a sub-boss at best, who's in over his head and getting played like the mediocre chess piece he is. His one really egregious act, the "killing" of Liz and Amber, was an attempt at mercy and a projection of his own weakness and self-loathing at being unable to resist or overcome Xj. And I'd bet good money he'll fail in even that as he won't have successfully killed them at all.

Xanthe Jr:

Experimented on Ella, experimented on Cole, experimented on Liz and Amber, killed countless sets of twins in his experiments and would likely have done the same to Liz and Amber given the chance to complete his plans, has hijacked S.I.N. and prompted most of their worst crimes, and is the actual driving force behind them now when Langdon only thinks he is. He is the architect of most of the suffering we've seen, he fucked up Ella mentally and emotionally through his experimental tortures which is what set her on the path she's on now. Of all the human antagonists, he's number one in terms of how much harm he's done and how much he's responsible for all the bad shit that has plagued MC.

If I had a gun and two bullets with the two of them in front of me, I'd shoot Xj twice just to make sure. Cole is pathetic and virtually irrelevant in comparison, either he can be flipped or mostly ignored but either way he's a minor player that is getting way more attention than he's worth. There's no purpose in going so hard against a pissant when there are real problems to deal with first.

Because Cole is a rabid dog. He kills for shits and giggles. He is confirmed to have killed allies, he killed William for no reason, he killed the twins when he could save them instead with Tanos out of the base, he made life miserable for his adopted brothers and annoys everyone.

Tanos is reserved and enabled by others. He actually didn't experiment on Cole, that was Bramon. All his subjects were given to him by Langdon, which means that he didn't just abduct people to experiment on. He doesn't have morals, but he can hardly be blamed for the decisions of others when any scientist with his knowledge would suffice. Lastly it's suggested by Shen that it was Eisheth who killed the failed Twin experiments and kept hunting Twins after Tanos was done. Tanos needed her help so he probably played her game to keep her content.

Tanos is a prick and he caused a lot of suffering, but there is a method to his madness and it's possible to be reasoned with. Cole.. not so much, he only understands strength and tramples everything on his path.

 

[SquallofNight]

His one really egregious act, the "killing" of Liz and Amber, was an attempt at mercy and a projection of his own weakness and self-loathing at being unable to resist or overcome Xj.

Just to clarify this: Cole wasn't at all being merciful. He only wanted to "mercy kill" them after Jared said they were MCs friends. Fucker even said "Hum, too bad for him", before trying to kill Amber.

 

[Gtdead]

Spoiler: MC's True Trait

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I used to think that MC's power was Evolution. I think I have a post about it somewhere around here. But Syla kind of changed my opinion.

Mom "You'll never have the focus a pure spawn has, you need to work harder to maximize your potential! To not just master both sides, but to combine them together into something stronger!!"

This means that the Evolution trait is emergent. It will be MC that will figure out how to combine the traits. He won't just inherit Evolution either on top or instead of the others.

This is actually good, because it gives agency to MC. He won't need to jump through hoops to combine his powers. Rather it will be a natural progression.

On the flipside, it's odd to conceptualize the origin trait as emergent (even if the Apostles themselves hint at it), so perhaps Syla is wrong and MC will have to claim Evolution before he is capable of really combining his powers.

 

[kibaris]

It's not that I forgot it. It's that it doesn't make much sense because it's conficting with the rest and Met's behavior during the fight.
Let's put it this way.

From dialogue:
Cole >= Met (According to Met)
Evander >= Met (Accordind to Met) <-- This is the problematic one
Evander < Cole (According to Shen)

This info is conflicting because Met can't be equal to Cole but weaker than Evander. So what is the truth?

Only Met has shown the ability to be precise with his Power reading. He successfully determined that Alice is more powerful than Michael, despite how the battle went, he managed to figure out that "Nathan" is high level despite MC not really using his powers, and he mentioned that he is better than average at reading power when speaking to Charlie. So his opinions carry weight.

1.
"At least as much Power as I do" (refering to Cole), while not precise, has to be accurate. If Cole had 2x or 3x Met's power, that statement wouldn't be accurate in the least. It's unreasonable to expect big differences here, so let's say 1.3x is the ceiling.

2.
Against Evander, I have 2 arguments:
- Met was cocky as fuck. Despite getting blowed up by Evander, he still said that he can take both Twins at the same time. So he probably read their power levels at determined that they aren't up to his level.
- Met was surprised that Evander could output more than expected. This points to his confusion about what happened.
So there has to be a difference between Met's perception and Evander's reality, but again, Met is good at this and we have an easy answer, that Twins are capable of sharing Power.

3.
Syla says that lesser spawn have the potential to be as strong as greater spawn, as long as they are capable of reaching level 3. This makes it so Met's heritage can't be used to determine his growth. It's a matter of training and how efficient he is at increasing his Power. So it's unlikely that Evander in a month, gained enough Power to surpass Met.

4.
Evander said he could output more, but the question is, why he didn't in the first place? This wasn't an easy fight for him and it happened at the end of the tournament. So he didn't really have any reason to hold back. I think he had to hold back, because of how Power sharing between Twins work.

Taking all these into account, the only way I can resolve the ranking problem is to put Met ahead of Evander and reason that it's the Twins' shared pool that allowed him to tie/have the potential to win.




Come on, we both saw what happened. SIN wanted the Foxglove twins, they didn't care about capturing MC (or Deryl). And if it wasn't for Shen staying Devana's hand, she would attempt to kill him. Syla is wrong. No matter how she interpreted the fight, the only reason MC lives is because Shen intervened.

In any case, your power ranges are similar to mine. I said 300-400, you said 250-350. So we both agree that they are fairly close to one another and MC has more than them.

I didnt say that Evander was stronger than Met, Met = Evander with is own pool of power but could have winned if he had tapped into devana's pool, like you said Met is cocky and he also believed that he had a chance against Charlie who is level 4 so i wouldnt say that what he said about taking both is a proof of anything, beeing good at evaluate people power doesnt mean that he's right everytime.

has to why Evander didnt, maybe pride since it was a one on one with nothing at stake.

i never said that they cared about mc, but Devana didnt use her strongest creatures against mc, she only wanted to kill him after mc got her and she was wounded .
Devana "I'm done fucking around then; time to make mincemeat out of this freak."
Devana "Cerberus, kill him."

and i didnt have the impression that Evander was trying that hard either, it was a 3 against 1 with purpose to capture them alive,also they severly underestimated mc too. Shen included, so why would they go at full power anyway?

1 month isnt a long time to develop their trait and new capacity on that i agree, but their growth in power is insanely fast since Shen said that they should surpass both Cole and him soon enough when they only have their power for only a month.

Either way we can agree that theses 4 are close in power, it's just that I really think that the twins are underestimated because of this fight with mc and that Cole is potentially dangerous for mc with his new weapon and that it won't be so easy for him even if Cole should have less power than mc.

 

[SquallofNight]

I used to think that MC's power was Evolution. I think I have a post about it somewhere around here. But Syla kind of changed my opinion.

Mom "You'll never have the focus a pure spawn has, you need to work harder to maximize your potential! To not just master both sides, but to combine them together into something stronger!!"

This means that the Evolution trait is emergent. It will be MC that will figure out how to combine the traits. He won't just inherit Evolution either on top or instead of the others.

This is actually good, because it gives agency to MC. He won't need to jump through hoops to combine his powers. Rather it will be a natural progression.

On the flipside, it's odd to conceptualize the origin trait as emergent (even if the Apostles themselves hint at it), so perhaps Syla is wrong and MC will have to claim Evolution before he is capable of really combining his powers.

This could be because of how MC was "evolving" his traits. I think Drako said said something like this: MC had evolved far into his Body trait (his 2 Evo only had Body powers basically), neglecting his Memory (which, by his own admission, was more difficult to train).
So, at that point, he had a Body lvl 2 and Memory lvl 1; after his 3rd Evo, he became a Body 3 and a Memory 2. He may need to reach a full Memory 3 (which may already happened after the training with Mom) to fully complete the two.
His 4th Evo could also be the game changer, where the two (now fully integrated in his being) finally complete eachother.

 

[SquallofNight]

I didnt say that Evander was stronger than Met, Met = Evander with is own pool of power but could have winned if he had tapped into devana's pool, like you said Met is cocky and he also believed that he had a chance against Charlie who is level 4 so i wouldnt say that what he said about taking both is a proof of anything, beeing good at evaluate people power doesnt mean that he's right everytime.

has to why Evander didnt, maybe pride since it was a one on one with nothing at stake.

i never said that they cared about mc, but Devana didnt use her strongest creatures against mc, she only wanted to kill him after mc got her and she was wounded .
Devana "I'm done fucking around then; time to make mincemeat out of this freak."
Devana "Cerberus, kill him."

and i didnt have the impression that Evander was trying that hard either, it was a 3 against 1 with purpose to capture them alive,also they severly underestimated mc too. Shen included, so why would they go at full power anyway?

1 month isnt a long time to develop their trait and new capacity on that i agree, but their growth in power is insanely fast since Shen said that they should surpass both Cole and him soon enough when they only have their power for only a month.

Either way we can agree that theses 4 are close in power, it's just that I really think that the twins are underestimated because of this fight with mc and that Cole is potentially dangerous for mc with his new weapon and that it won't be so easy for him even if Cole should have less power than mc.

Charlie is lvl 3, not 4 (as far as we know, and with the info about how a 4th evo change your apperance).

As much as I love my Devana, if her dog started chewing on MC, he would have woken up and it would've been fighting time again; i simply don't see even a B class killing MC so fast if he didn't have some OP ability like the Gorgon (and Cerberus doesn't sound like having one).

Moonsquito was a bitch, he literally left his sister impaled on a spike to rush MC and missed. Weren't it for Shen, she would be dead; so he "didn't take it seriosly" doesn't seem to work that much.

 

[Gtdead]

I didnt say that Evander was stronger than Met, Met = Evander with is own pool of power but could have winned if he had tapped into devana's pool, like you said Met is cocky and he also believed that he had a chance against Charlie who is level 4 so i wouldnt say that what he said about taking both is a proof of anything, beeing good at evaluate people power doesnt mean that he's right everytime.

has to why Evander didnt, maybe pride since it was a one on one with nothing at stake.

i never said that they cared about mc, but Devana didnt use her strongest creatures against mc, she only wanted to kill him after mc got her and she was wounded .
Devana "I'm done fucking around then; time to make mincemeat out of this freak."
Devana "Cerberus, kill him."

and i didnt have the impression that Evander was trying that hard either, it was a 3 against 1 with purpose to capture them alive,also they severly underestimated mc too. Shen included, so why would they go at full power anyway?

1 month isnt a long time to develop their trait and new capacity on that i agree, but their growth in power is insanely fast since Shen said that they should surpass both Cole and him soon enough when they only have their power for only a month.

Either way we can agree that theses 4 are close in power, it's just that I really think that the twins are underestimated because of this fight with mc and that Cole is potentially dangerous for mc with his new weapon and that it won't be so easy for him even if Cole should have less power than mc.

All my references were from inside the game. I didn't really use your own words. I approached it from zero all over again. So don't worry about misunderstandings.

I don't believe even for a second that Charlie is a level 4. It does't make any sense to me.
Her childlike appearence is all the info I need. But there's also the MC saying that if he wanted, he could break Charlie's influence on him during the meditation event.

I will repeat that SIN weren't there for MC. Only Shen cared enough to keep him alive. At no point during the fight the Twins got any command to capture instead of killing.
Devana "Oh, look who it is."
Evander ".....Nathan."
Devana "They didn't mention the job would involve you."

You "What the hell is this? You said you had already found the twins you were looking for!"
Shen "I did. But now the doc is demanding more. He's come up with a new procedure and we can't risk trying it on our perfect pair."
Shen "It's a little sudden, but fortunately Eisheth had already found some great substitutes that can be tested on instead. She's probably disappointed that she can't eat them, but she listens to the doc."

Whatever Devana says, at her current level she can't do shit to MC.
A monster wouldn't fair better than her brother.
A nuke wouldn't kill MC (He survived Deryl's hydrogen cannon explosion)
Her other monsters couldn't even survive his tails.

And what was the conclusion of it all? MC was dumped in the basement, full of chemicals, waiting for Ella to come back. No one interacted with him.

_________________________

All this talk about the Twins surpassing Cole prompted me to do some research. I want to use him as a comparison point to determine the potentials of MC vs Moon Twins

The first time Christie saw Cole, he was 13-14 years old.

Cole says that Ella didn't give him his powers.
Xanthe says that Ella stole Cole from him, and considering that they HERO didn't know about the orphanage, it sounds to me like Cole was already a Superhuman when he met with Ella.

This means that Cole is a child Superhuman (they supposedly have higher potential) and has been a Superhuman for 4~ years.
This.. really sucks for him
1. MC thinks he can beat him right after his evolution and despite spending so much power against Deryl a couple of minutes earlier. That's a time of 6 months give or take.
2. Met thinks he is on Cole's level more or less. Met has been a Superhuman for about 9~ months at this point.
For all his bravado, he seems like a pushover. And if he is a pushover, then the rest of the kids are pushovers too.

Shen says that Twins will surpass Cole, which is high probable. The question is when.
- MC had to suffer through the first 2 evolutionary levels for 6 months. These levels have diminishing returns.
- The Twins were boosted to level 3 in a month so their growth wasn't capped at any point.
So if the Twins take about 6 months to surpass Cole, then their progression would be slower than MC's.

Additionally we have some more interesting pieces of info.
- Syla says that if MC slows down, the Twins will surpass him by a mile. However this is an oxymoron of sorts because we are left with the impression that MC can maintain the lead. If the Twins can surpass him that easily, then there should be nothing he could do to keep up with them in the long run. So what is it? Can MC maintain the lead? Or he is doomed to be surpassed till he somehow manages to unlock the Evolution trait?
- Ella believes that MC will surpass her anyway and in a relatively short timeframe. Ella is an Apostlespawn and a Chosen. If MC can suprass her in a short time frame, then there has to be a reason for that extreme growth. Ella has been a Superhuman for 7 years and she is a level 5. Also she didn't know about her future death at the time.
- Deus also believes that MC will surpass Ella. He urges MC to not fight her before he can impress. Considering that Ella is probably stronger than any of HERO level 5s (with the exception of the Captains), I think "impressive" means that MC will reach Captain level (at least the weaker of them) before we see such a fight.

Now for the verdict:
I'm not really sure where I'm going with that. Truth is that surpassing Cole seems like an easy thing to do. The Moon Twins will have to surpass him in a month if they really want to live up to the potential that everyone else thinks they have.
But when it comes to MC, the game tries to persuade us so hard that he is going to have a hard time to keep up, but the deck is just stacked in his favor.

 

[Gtdead]

This could be because of how MC was "evolving" his traits. I think Drako said said something like this: MC had evolved far into his Body trait (his 2 Evo only had Body powers basically), neglecting his Memory (which, by his own admission, was more difficult to train).
So, at that point, he had a Body lvl 2 and Memory lvl 1; after his 3rd Evo, he became a Body 3 and a Memory 2. He may need to reach a full Memory 3 (which may already happened after the training with Mom) to fully complete the two.
His 4th Evo could also be the game changer, where the two (now fully integrated in his being) finally complete eachother.

The question is, what does it mean to combine Body and Memory? Syla accuses him of leaning too much to his Body powers, but if you think about it, there isn't a single form that hasn't been created through Memory.

Even the new ability he learned (False Memories) isn't usable in combat against an equal. He also learned how to form connections without touch which further decouples Memory from Body. At this point, it's hard to conceptualize the Evolution powers as something different than he already does.

Evolution means that you take something and improve it so it can adapt to /thrive in it's new circumstances or improve an aspect of it's existence.
Pulling that thread, I can reach 2 possible abilities:
1. Combining structures and memories of various beings to turn himself into something greater. (He already does that with his shapeshifting boosted by memories).
2. Taking something, changing it and imparting memories to support the new form and give it sentience. (He already does that by feeding memories to his tails and making them autonomous, but I guess he could turn a rock into a dragon or something at later stages)

So what's the next step?
Scope? Like turning a whole planet into an autonomous monster? Impressive, but still the same principle.
Form tangibility? Like doing it to intangible/immaterial things or turning material into immaterial and vice versa? This would be interesting, but we still haven't seen proof of concept.

As for the evolution levels of his abilities, I think that evolution in general is superfluous as far as the traits are concerned. Body, Memory and Evolution exist as basic and simple truths. The various mutations that emerge from evolutions are great and can improve the trait, but as long as there exists enough power, the main features of the trait should be able to be used regardless of the mutations. So MC doesn't need to evolve Body and Memory to use Evolution, he just needs enough power to combine them.

 

[weezal]

The question is, what does it mean to combine Body and Memory? Syla accuses him of leaning too much to his Body powers, but if you think about it, there isn't a single form that hasn't been created through Memory.

Even the new ability he learned (False Memories) isn't usable in combat against an equal. He also learned how to form connections without touch which further decouples Memory from Body. At this point, it's hard to conceptualize the Evolution powers as something different than he already does.

Evolution means that you take something and improve it so it can adapt to /thrive in it's new circumstances or improve an aspect of it's existence.
Pulling that thread, I can reach 2 possible abilities:
1. Combining structures and memories of various beings to turn himself into something greater. (He already does that with his shapeshifting boosted by memories).
2. Taking something, changing it and imparting memories to support the new form and give it sentience. (He already does that by feeding memories to his tails and making them autonomous, but I guess he could turn a rock into a dragon or something at later stages)

So what's the next step?
Scope? Like turning a whole planet into an autonomous monster? Impressive, but still the same principle.
Form tangibility? Like doing it to intangible/immaterial things or turning material into immaterial and vice versa? This would be interesting, but we still haven't seen proof of concept.

As for the evolution levels of his abilities, I think that evolution in general is superfluous as far as the traits are concerned. Body, Memory and Evolution exist as basic and simple truths. The various mutations that emerge from evolutions are great and can improve the trait, but as long as there exists enough power, the main features of the trait should be able to be used regardless of the mutations. So MC doesn't need to evolve Body and Memory to use Evolution, he just needs enough power to combine them.

For the next step I think it would be MC surpassing all other shapeshifters. As Xanthe mentioned earlier in the game shapeshifters can recreate the structure of something (superhuman or monster) but they're missing the supernatural aspect. From this I suspect MC will eventually be able to manipulate this supernatural side, fully recreating something along with their abilities. We've already seen the MC connect in some way to all 12 of the apostles so I think it wouldn't be too far fetched for MC to start to incorporate them into him. Literally evolving.

 

[Majordeathwish]

Any clue when the walkthrough will be coming out? Super pumped about the update but there are so many diverging paths with this one that I am struck with decision paralysis.

 

[Gtdead]

For the next step I think it would be MC surpassing all other shapeshifters. As Xanthe mentioned earlier in the game shapeshifters can recreate the structure of something (superhuman or monster) but they're missing the supernatural aspect. From this I suspect MC will eventually be able to manipulate this supernatural side, fully recreating something along with their abilities. We've already seen the MC connect in some way to all 12 of the apostles so I think it wouldn't be too far fetched for MC to start to incorporate them into him. Literally evolving.

The idea of surpassing the other Shapeshifters is a good way to approach this. Obviously we aren't talking about Power, but of abilities that others can't even dream of doing.
Of course we don't have many Shapeshifters to observe, it's just Ella really and we can't be sure if she is that good with the trait, especially if she was supposed to be a failed half-half.

These are some of my ideas, you will notice that a lot of them are similar to the Creation trait:
We learned that the Dream World is the domain of certain traits. 1st, 4th, 5th, 7th, 10th and 12th. One interesting thing to note here, is that the "physical" Superhumans, tend to be more powerful than MC. For example, MC has weakness against energy based attacks (radiation and plasma stop his regeneration, electricity fucks him up, etc), Space powers can output a lot more force than he can (Alice can throw as powerful attacks at level 2, as MC can at level 3), Light is just too fast for him to contain, Truth has ranged physical attacks (like Eisheth's telekinesis which can crush him and limit his regeneration), Destruction just destroys his body on contact. Perhaps by leveraging the Immaterial, he can create intangible forms that are resistant or even immune to various physical attacks. And even if that's not possible, perhaps he can reach out and physically attack someone through the Dream World, overcoming resistances and damaging aspects of them that wouldn't be possible otherwise (similar to how Deus attacks can sever connections).

- So the first differentiation is that MC is capable of thriving in the Immaterial Planes as a Shapeshifter which may allow him to overcome his weaknesses against physical attacks, or bypass resistances that would normally counter him.

Memory is good at knowing.. pretty much everything. As long as MC can mimick something with his form, he should be able to be as good at using it, as the creature he took the form from. He can also use memories from other organisms to boost the output of the special abilities. We've already seen this happening, but sadly there aren't many Supernatural things with non-magical abilities we can observe. An example would be to combine the Eel form with the Leigong form in order to use the Leigong's crystals to channel electricity better. Or to find a monster with toxic blood and turn his own blood into a Supernatural poison that harms anyone who attacks him in melee.

- So the second differentiation is that MC can integrate any structure, no matter how exotic, in his form, and instictively know how to use it. Due to this he can mix and match ordinary and supernatural anatomy to boost the effects of new abilities, without the need to have the relevant Supernatural trait.

Right now MC feeds Memories to his tails to make them autonomous. I wonder how far he could take this idea. For example, feeding Memories to each strand of his hair. This isn't much, but consider what would happen if MC took a huge and abstract form. How would he command it? Every time we see MC turn into Giant, no matter the circumstances, he turns into a dumb pugilist and he is very slow. If on the other hand, his giant form was covered by sentient tentacles, then he could fight any enemy at any level. He could brawl the big monster, while his tentacles fight the smaller ones.

- So the third differentation is that MC can give commands to even his more abstract forms, offloading the mental load to sentient appendages that can do the fighting for him.

If MC has the potential to load memories into his constructs, and manage to combine this with persisted constructs disconnected from his body (like Ella taught him), then he can mimic the creation trait, creating sentient monsters with whatever memories he wants. He can also take it a step further and create things like virus, bacteria, parasites etc. He can invade other organisms and destroy them from within using poisons or even by delivering False Memories through these organisms, in a sense creating puppets of the infected.

- So the fourth differentiation is that he can combine Memory with the latest ability he learned from Ella, to create autonomous constructs, to various effects, from minions, to making puppets out of other enemies or attacking them from withing. All these constructs will have a certain autonomy, so MC will never have to mentally load himself controlling them.

Up till now, all these should technically be possible as they are already part of his powers. Perhaps the immaterial ideas are not fully possible, but at the very least there exists a possibility for alternative ways for MC to deal some damage.

But what about stealing Powers from other Supernatural organisms? I will assume that Xanthe is correct in that MC's powers will weaken if he transforms his lifeforce to mimick someone else's power. But there still exists a way for him to use it without compromising anything. By making constructs in advance and persisting them through the ability that Ella taught him.

So while it may not be a good idea to transform into a Fire Superhuman midfight, he can create a Fire-based Construct a week in advance, pouring all his power into it, and when he needs to fight, he will have a minion that is loaded with almost all his power to fight alongside him.

- So the fifth differentiation is the MC has the potential to create constructs that can use traits from other lines to assist him in combat or other tasks. The constructs will be complete, with the correct memories to use the powers efficiently, and with enough Power to match MC himself as there isn't any risk in pouring all his Power into them since he will have time to rest and regain it.

 

[jamouyi]

is it just me or does anyone else want mc do fuck his mother, a lil incest action going on. no just me, really wish it would happen though just saying. cant help myself, i love futanari the most and incest[mother son the most] is in second place and if they are combined its even better. only in porn though not in real life incest i mean.

 

[weezal]

The idea of surpassing the other Shapeshifters is a good way to approach this. Obviously we aren't talking about Power, but of abilities that others can't even dream of doing.
Of course we don't have many Shapeshifters to observe, it's just Ella really and we can't be sure if she is that good with the trait, especially if she was supposed to be a failed half-half.

These are some of my ideas, you will notice that a lot of them are similar to the Creation trait:
We learned that the Dream World is the domain of certain traits. 1st, 4th, 5th, 7th, 10th and 12th. One interesting thing to note here, is that the "physical" Superhumans, tend to be more powerful than MC. For example, MC has weakness against energy based attacks (radiation and plasma stop his regeneration, electricity fucks him up, etc), Space powers can output a lot more force than he can (Alice can throw as powerful attacks at level 2, as MC can at level 3), Light is just too fast for him to contain, Truth has ranged physical attacks (like Eisheth's telekinesis which can crush him and limit his regeneration), Destruction just destroys his body on contact. Perhaps by leveraging the Immaterial, he can create intangible forms that are resistant or even immune to various physical attacks. And even if that's not possible, perhaps he can reach out and physically attack someone through the Dream World, overcoming resistances and damaging aspects of them that wouldn't be possible otherwise (similar to how Deus attacks can sever connections).

- So the first differentiation is that MC is capable of thriving in the Immaterial Planes as a Shapeshifter which may allow him to overcome his weaknesses against physical attacks, or bypass resistances that would normally counter him.

Memory is good at knowing.. pretty much everything. As long as MC can mimick something with his form, he should be able to be as good at using it, as the creature he took the form from. He can also use memories from other organisms to boost the output of the special abilities. We've already seen this happening, but sadly there aren't many Supernatural things with non-magical abilities we can observe. An example would be to combine the Eel form with the Leigong form in order to use the Leigong's crystals to channel electricity better. Or to find a monster with toxic blood and turn his own blood into a Supernatural poison that harms anyone who attacks him in melee.

- So the second differentiation is that MC can integrate any structure, no matter how exotic, in his form, and instictively know how to use it. Due to this he can mix and match ordinary and supernatural anatomy to boost the effects of new abilities, without the need to have the relevant Supernatural trait.

Right now MC feeds Memories to his tails to make them autonomous. I wonder how far he could take this idea. For example, feeding Memories to each strand of his hair. This isn't much, but consider what would happen if MC took a huge and abstract form. How would he command it? Every time we see MC turn into Giant, no matter the circumstances, he turns into a dumb pugilist and he is very slow. If on the other hand, his giant form was covered by sentient tentacles, then he could fight any enemy at any level. He could brawl the big monster, while his tentacles fight the smaller ones.

- So the third differentation is that MC can give commands to even his more abstract forms, offloading the mental load to sentient appendages that can do the fighting for him.

If MC has the potential to load memories into his constructs, and manage to combine this with persisted constructs disconnected from his body (like Ella taught him), then he can mimic the creation trait, creating sentient monsters with whatever memories he wants. He can also take it a step further and create things like virus, bacteria, parasites etc. He can invade other organisms and destroy them from within using poisons or even by delivering False Memories through these organisms, in a sense creating puppets of the infected.

- So the fourth differentiation is that he can combine Memory with the latest ability he learned from Ella, to create autonomous constructs, to various effects, from minions, to making puppets out of other enemies or attacking them from withing. All these constructs will have a certain autonomy, so MC will never have to mentally load himself controlling them.

Up till now, all these should technically be possible as they are already part of his powers. Perhaps the immaterial ideas are not fully possible, but at the very least there exists a possibility for alternative ways for MC to deal some damage.

But what about stealing Powers from other Supernatural organisms? I will assume that Xanthe is correct in that MC's powers will weaken if he transforms his lifeforce to mimick someone else's power. But there still exists a way for him to use it without compromising anything. By making constructs in advance and persisting them through the ability that Ella taught him.

So while it may not be a good idea to transform into a Fire Superhuman midfight, he can create a Fire-based Construct a week in advance, pouring all his power into it, and when he needs to fight, he will have a minion that is loaded with almost all his power to fight alongside him.

- So the fifth differentiation is the MC has the potential to create constructs that can use traits from other lines to assist him in combat or other tasks. The constructs will be complete, with the correct memories to use the powers efficiently, and with enough Power to match MC himself as there isn't any risk in pouring all his Power into them since he will have time to rest and regain it.

All very interesting and viable ideas. I find the immaterial idea to be particularly intriguing. Val can negate all non-physical attacks so perhaps it would be possible for something to negate all physical attacks.

 

[weezal]

is it just me or does anyone else want mc do fuck his mother, a lil incest action going on. no just me, really wish it would happen though just saying. cant help myself, i love futanari the most and incest[mother son the most] is in second place and if they are combined its even better. only in porn though not in real life incest i mean.

 

[Krytax123]

All very interesting and viable ideas. I find the immaterial idea to be particularly intriguing. Val can negate all non-physical attacks so perhaps it would be possible for something to negate all physical attacks.

Didn’t Ella kinda already did that against Malik and Nico or what’s different about the idea you’re talking about?

It feels like it could be a ability which could be further enhanced (being able to move for example)

 

[JmTrad]

For the next step I think it would be MC surpassing all other shapeshifters. As Xanthe mentioned earlier in the game shapeshifters can recreate the structure of something (superhuman or monster) but they're missing the supernatural aspect. From this I suspect MC will eventually be able to manipulate this supernatural side, fully recreating something along with their abilities. We've already seen the MC connect in some way to all 12 of the apostles so I think it wouldn't be too far fetched for MC to start to incorporate them into him. Literally evolving.

I like your idea. It makes sense and a reason why Ella consider herself a failure. MC since level 1 had something Ella didn't had, and she would kill for it, literally. When she evolved to level 5 and didn't got it feels like she kinda gave up and MC was not in risk anymore to be killed by her for "telling too much". And i also think it fits this other comment:

This could be because of how MC was "evolving" his traits. I think Drako said said something like this: MC had evolved far into his Body trait (his 2 Evo only had Body powers basically), neglecting his Memory (which, by his own admission, was more difficult to train).
So, at that point, he had a Body lvl 2 and Memory lvl 1; after his 3rd Evo, he became a Body 3 and a Memory 2. He may need to reach a full Memory 3 (which may already happened after the training with Mom) to fully complete the two.
His 4th Evo could also be the game changer, where the two (now fully integrated in his being) finally complete eachother.

We don't know much about Ella, only that she relly almost 100% on Body, and her Memory powers are incomplete compared to MC. I would guess she is level 5 Body and level 2 (incomplete) Memory. Very unbalanced.