Aglaecwif mentions the apostle eater and describes it pretty much how that thing showed up in the dead end, so my working theory is that it was that. There's a bunch of terrible eldritch horrors it could be though but my money is still on the apostle eater.
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- Jun 23, 2017
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Heed the bird's words, the witch lies as easily as she breathes.
But I will note that MC and Jake are both candidates to host not just Apostles, according to Aglæcwif but their combined states (Arbiters?).
The monster that kills the 4th's avatar is definitely the Lord of Dark, Apostle Devourer. It literally eats her corpse, as well.
The thing that talks to Jake is the 1st, Authority.
- Jul 13, 2021
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Good catch, I missed that and I concur, it sounds plausible. I searched for all the references in the script:
Aglaec on gods:
"Then, there is the Lord of Dark. God Slayer. Apostle Devourer. It is often those originating from the ninth, the tenth and especially the seventh, that worship it, though thankfully I'm not so foolish."
Valravn on how to spread Lord of the Dark's word:
"Death to god and their servants. Glory to the eternal night."
Varlavn when asking his opinion on other gods:
"I have no opinion on them. All will fall to Dark, those mentioned by thee, along with any other 'god' that decides to invade our dark cosmos."
So it seems that this Lord of the Dark is either after the higher beings that aren't aligned with him, or he wants to just end the world. Interesting. Could make for a great unifying purpose.
Edit: Actually scratch that, probably messed up the references, will read them again for clarity.
Edit2: Ok I think I'm good.
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- Jun 22, 2017
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At first i thought Ella's plan was to find a suitable body for a merge of 3rd and 4rth since it seems apostles came to be in pairs, but those were imperfect forms lacking the power the single entity should have, like authorithy and power combined, or Memory and Body, but now things got messier.
Eye boy does seem out of this plan, after all it wants the powers of all apostles, my guess is that it is the thing who originated all apostles/arbiters in the first place and now it wants to be complete again.
For a long time i have a theory that the combination of 3rd and 4rth powers is capable of copying other powers, this is what Ella wanted but after her 5 evolution she didn't develop memory powers, Mc did since his 1 evolution.
I think that she wanted either someone capable of controling everyone thus having acess to all powers through command (Jake) or someone capable of manifesting all powers (herself or Mc)
Maybe her plan is to absorb the one who fits that, thus explaining why she didn't want it to be Mc, the hearts might be exacly for that, to gain the powers of monsters
And for what end, i guess she knows only power can protect humans and monsters from the bizarre shit across the universe, she knows terrifying things are lurking out there.
Also the twins thing might be her trying to manifest arbiters, transforming people from pairs of apostles so they can become one, now if she wants them just to be around or to try and abosorb them i have no ideia.
Yeah I had it in my head that those three were three separate entities, must have been tired the first time I read it but it's obviously different names for one entity. Also remembered it as apostle eater, not devourer.
She definitely knows a lot, probably much more than HERO does about the true horrors out there, and as such she's most likely going about trying to secure a place for humanity (but probably mostly herself and anyone she cares about) by doing whatever it is she can to make that happen. I do think that the first properly sincere thing she said to the MC (about wanting to find someone who sees her for her and not just her exterior and still loves her) is her primary and strongest motivator. She's also clearly treating the MC the way she does out of some kind of necessity (even if the reasons for it might purely be in her head) to prepare us for whatever's about to come, at the expense of failing her minor goals. Since she even outright says that she'll still be cheering for the MC to get their happy ending even if it means hers gets trampled. She's a very mercurial character and she's unpredictable, imo, only because we don't actually know 100% exactly what her motivations/plans are.
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- Aug 21, 2018
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shit the create bodies for the pricks theory . you want necrons? because that is how you get necrons XD
I'll create old ed necrons before matt ward sunk his cheeto encrusted fingers into them, and have an immortal indestructible army of terminators.
- Jul 13, 2021
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The witch certainly hides details about the deal. As for her opinion on Ella, I'm inclined to believe her. I expect that she may know more than she lets on by feigning ignorance but I don't think she outright lies.
There is this talk about the power of Order, which is the power of the first and the second as I understand it, but I actually doubt that Jake is meant to host anything or even achieve this power. I just thing that he is capable of unifying powerful people.
I thought about that but I'm not sold yet. Despite his appearence, I actually doubt that Jake is corrupted enough to communicate with the voices so clearly. Could be his mental affinity? Perhaps. I will keep it open for now.
- Oct 1, 2021
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I will make a new post just so more people can see it, weird has to change so stuff so I'm waiting to release when the public version does
- Jul 13, 2021
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It makes sense. Ella gets ecstatic when MC tells her about the ability to copy other lifeforms and she call him perfect. I thought about it too but I actually don't think that it's what Ella wanted. Or to be more precise, I don't think that she wanted the memory to copy other powers.
One thing I've noticed about Ella's transformations is that they are very abstract. When MC transforms into a dog, he creates a perfect dog. Her wolf was a bit eldritch. I think she wanted the memory in order to transform herself into a very specific thing. Perhaps a vat for power.
Ella knows things that others do not. Like for example that the 5th evolution isn't necessarily the last. It's just a very important milestone. Check out this conversation. It happens right after Ella heals Mia:
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It's quite possible that she thinks she can't do what is asked of her because she can't transform into the exact thing that her parent wants her to and instead of wasting her time, she decides that Eli has a better chance of succeeding, thus she immediately turns her over to the Fourth. (Which begs the question, why the Fourth and not the Third, since he is her monster father? Which could be answered by the notion that Third and Fourth like each other and work together).
This seems quite a huge "spoiler" for the HERO boys and something that seemingly no one knows in the organization, despite having so many level 5s. It's also one reason why I think Nyx is going to do something awesome that no one expects her to do.
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This is my two cent about this update until now.
1: i really enjoyed the fight we had with deryl. It was masterfully done.I felt like I was in an anime. But it got me thinking: We are Weak as F.
alice can control gravity and bring people and object toward her at level 2 ........ We can increase the number of limbs.
My boy Michel can absorb power.....we can flood peoples minds with memories.(and this is all when we are at level 3)
From a destructive point of view, we can't hold a candle to any 5 levels.
Nyx one shots with death.Nico brings the sun.one of them is the sun. Another manipulates time and so on......wish we had some ace in the hole no one had like maybe sealing or stealing other people's abilities.
2: I really liked the gallery changes.I think separating scenes from weird ones was a great idea for those who don't want to see them constantly.
as always I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter
1: i really enjoyed the fight we had with deryl. It was masterfully done.I felt like I was in an anime. But it got me thinking: We are Weak as F.
alice can control gravity and bring people and object toward her at level 2 ........ We can increase the number of limbs.
My boy Michel can absorb power.....we can flood peoples minds with memories.(and this is all when we are at level 3)
From a destructive point of view, we can't hold a candle to any 5 levels.
Nyx one shots with death.Nico brings the sun.one of them is the sun. Another manipulates time and so on......wish we had some ace in the hole no one had like maybe sealing or stealing other people's abilities.
2: I really liked the gallery changes.I think separating scenes from weird ones was a great idea for those who don't want to see them constantly.
as always I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter
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- May 30, 2020
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- Jun 22, 2017
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It is a very good theory but i understood that as:
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Ella for some reason seems much better at controling her shapeshifting than Mc, on my headcannon this is because she is a spawn of Body, Mc is not so good but when he has contact with a lifeform he copies it perfectly, because on his case he is a spawn of Memory.
As an example Ella's dog form is bizarre because she can imagine herself as that and boom, there she is. Mc would need to touch a dog to absorb it's form trough his memory powers to then be a dog, adding other things only if he had the memory of other animal parts inside him.
To me 3rd and 4rth are working together and they need someone with both their powers, Ella waited until the last evolution to know if she would have Memory powers but failed, she says Mc is a good candidate because he still can manifest this ability, as far as i know he never told her he has memory.
- Jul 13, 2021
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Should have phrased that a bit better. Ella with her special power may think that Jake has the potential, but knowing what we know about him it seems unlikely (to me at least) that he ever had a chance. The way I think about it is that she is thought betting on the spawn of the firstborn was a good tactic for whatever her goal ends up being.
However thanks for the snippet, I had missed it and it's quite important.
Yes it's possible that I don't read it as it was meant to be.
And as far as I remember, outside of the deadends, yes Ella doesn't know about the MC's memory power. However I consider deadends relevant information and I include them when theorizing. Thought I was more transparent about it.
I think WW makes it a point to not let Ella know about the MC.
Edit: I thought to share this since you shared your headcannon. I had a thought about the 4th. Up till now, we just assume that both the 3rd and 4th are shapeshifters. However I'm not so sure if that's the case. The working theory is that the 4th scanned MC's memories and changed to represent something that it thought MC would be ok with. However is it really what happened? Perhaps it altered the MCs memories to the point he thought that the monster gave him a blowjob and the infection was a penis enlargement drug but the reality was different and forever lost to us.
MC's new power, memory echo, does something similar. It feeds the MCs memories into the target. We don't actually know what the 4th is capable of but I guess the minimum she could do would be to read, feed and alter memories. Another idea would be to alter your genetic memory, or muscle memory. Make you forget how to do something. Make you forget how to take a breath. Who knows. Because otherwise, the 4th doesn't seem to be on par with the other numbered.
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to be fair, if you do the born again/dead again ending you see some ridiculous shit for our potential, which only loses to some literal deus ex machina shit.
Anyone else think the impromptu hostage situation Ella engineered feels off? There's no way she thought that was going to work against HERO. They wouldn't prioritize agents over the mission. She's not naïve. So why swipe them? Well, if Ella did something to those two before Nico teleported them away, I wouldn't be surprised if that was her exit plan.
so i did enjoy this update quite a bit i do have one pretty big gripe that a lot of people seem to have and thats how the one potential death this update is handled. Ill go into my reasoning in a moment but i just wanted to start by saying while im not a huge fan of how the death comes about i dont know if there should be any consideration to changing it or not, especially since we dont know the full extent of the path choice that is the determining factor in the death.
That being said, i dont like how it was handled for three reasons, first- just about every other character death is a direct result of us choosing to kill them or with one exception handling the fight wrong. This comes about from a choice earlier on that to me currently really doesnt make sense to cause us and the other person who prevents it from being incapable of stopping it on the one path as opposed to the correct one. Secondly every fight we had (as long as you've got the right stats for it) is win/lose/fail forward based on choices made in the fight. The bat creature that causes a death is a "loss" because we choose wrong, Valravan is a fail forward because you choose wrong (again assuming enough stats), every big fight is a win/lose based on your choices in the fight (i could be mistaken but thats what it seems like to me) and yet this one fight results in a "loss" based not on your actual stats but rather what path you took. The hesitate choice specifically says only the strong can afford to hesitate but you can get just as high skill/power if you go for stats instead of lore on the wrong path. Also, using the console to force stats higher doesnt allow you to make the right choice even if you are stronger so the hesitate fail seems to be a bit misleading. And finally, we can sense other creatures/superhumans, like everyone in the group has some capacity to and our character literally has eyes in the back of his head and stuff (or at east he does when he thinks he needs them and when is a better time to be on guard than in the middle of a warzone?) Basically the death happens because the group gets surprised in a way that i think doesn't make sense with our established abilities and senses, and only happens because in one version we what, dont have enough skill or reaction time or something to do what we do in the version that the person survives? i just dont think it was handled the best, though i do realize its probably to give some motivation/impact for choosing the non-death path as opposed to the one thats much more likely to be chosen if it didnt result in a death we might want to avoid.
That being said, i dont like how it was handled for three reasons, first- just about every other character death is a direct result of us choosing to kill them or with one exception handling the fight wrong. This comes about from a choice earlier on that to me currently really doesnt make sense to cause us and the other person who prevents it from being incapable of stopping it on the one path as opposed to the correct one. Secondly every fight we had (as long as you've got the right stats for it) is win/lose/fail forward based on choices made in the fight. The bat creature that causes a death is a "loss" because we choose wrong, Valravan is a fail forward because you choose wrong (again assuming enough stats), every big fight is a win/lose based on your choices in the fight (i could be mistaken but thats what it seems like to me) and yet this one fight results in a "loss" based not on your actual stats but rather what path you took. The hesitate choice specifically says only the strong can afford to hesitate but you can get just as high skill/power if you go for stats instead of lore on the wrong path. Also, using the console to force stats higher doesnt allow you to make the right choice even if you are stronger so the hesitate fail seems to be a bit misleading. And finally, we can sense other creatures/superhumans, like everyone in the group has some capacity to and our character literally has eyes in the back of his head and stuff (or at east he does when he thinks he needs them and when is a better time to be on guard than in the middle of a warzone?) Basically the death happens because the group gets surprised in a way that i think doesn't make sense with our established abilities and senses, and only happens because in one version we what, dont have enough skill or reaction time or something to do what we do in the version that the person survives? i just dont think it was handled the best, though i do realize its probably to give some motivation/impact for choosing the non-death path as opposed to the one thats much more likely to be chosen if it didnt result in a death we might want to avoid.
- Dec 23, 2020
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