ItzSyther

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Dec 3, 2018
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Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.

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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen? ;)
Goddddd damn does Claudia look beautiful! I also dig how dexter looks (bro's fit is clean).
 
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Ir0n Ma1den

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Jun 15, 2021
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1688416101989.png I love alexis new model, hope we will able to romance her and add her to our expending harem, her and Nicollete. I want MC to bring her cocky smug down.

Also love the universe, a cyberpunk one world govermant setting, adding monsters and superpowers its always a win.
 
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bloodaxis

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I feel like that defeats he purpose of having a grandiose title for each Twin in the first place then.

There are Twins that DON'T really fit the overall vibe of each other, whether it be looks or abilities. Take the 1st & the 2nd; they don't look alike at all, the 2nd shows virtually no traits of the 1st and vise versa during our brief view of them. There's also the 7th & 8th, which are polar opposites in terms of powers, they should have literally no common compatibility whatsoever, even in their mannerisms (7th wants everything dead and dark, doubt it's creational double wants the same thing despite apparently having duplicate traits apparently).

I'll always die on the hill that the MC was DOUBLE injected by the 3rd and 4th. Cause it's not like the MC has JUST a portion of the alternative ability, he has damn near the EQUIVALENT mastery of it as much as the main one you pick. Not even the Twins show complete control over both abilities so why would it make sense to be able to inherit BOTH abilities from 1? It makes the 2nd COMPLETELY useless. Why have the Dark Lord if Light Queen can just be Dark Lord every Tuesday? Especially if they can pass on a power that isn't even their created purpose in the first place.

Eh sorry for this rant, guess it just rubs me the wrong way from a narrative perspective that only ONE of the Twins infected you instead of just having both, that way it's an actual team effort, and not just some luck of the draw "happen to have both" abilities to full mastery.
I agree with this for narrative reasons, which is why I think it's the connection to the origin that lets us have both powers, there's a reason they're called origin/teacher after all and it's likely to do with the fact that the power descends from them in a more direct way than just offspring inheriting it.
 

necromater

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Aug 21, 2018
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Brah that is wuxia shit right there XD even the names of the monster factions sounds like that i mean the océan of strength was it? That's a wuxia sect name right there lol.
 

Aristarkhos

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Jun 23, 2017
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I'll always die on the hill that the MC was DOUBLE injected by the 3rd and 4th.
I am of the opinion that this is likely the reason MC was specifically injected.
A cocktail specifically made to give both traits in equal measure.
Monsters don't have to inject a victim to infect them.
They can use whatever medium for infection they like.

Alternatively, maybe their mental invasion- because both use telepathy on MC- infected MC with the Memory trait.
And the injection infected him with the Body trait. Functionally the same, a deliberate infection with both traits.
 
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weezal

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Jul 5, 2022
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I am of the opinion that this is likely the reason MC was specifically injected.
A cocktail specifically made to give both traits in equal measure.
Monsters don't have to inject a victim to infect them.
They can use whatever medium for infection they like.

Alternatively, maybe their mental invasion- because both use telepathy on MC- infected MC with the Memory trait.
And the injection infected him with the Body trait. Functionally the same, a deliberate infection with both traits.
I agree. MC was given that specific pill for a reason by Ella for a specific purpose. A purpose she couldn't fulfill. I suspect that before he was infected at the park he still wasn't entirely human. The descriptions of MC's mother imply she wasn't human, perhaps she was a monster who chose to live as a human and have a family. We know that a special few monsters are able to reproduce with humans so this could make the MC a hybrid or something similar. This might make him different to the other superhumans and allow him to fulfill the purpose Ella couldn't herself.
 

DrakoGhoul

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Jul 13, 2018
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I feel like that defeats he purpose of having a grandiose title for each Twin in the first place then.

There are Twins that DON'T really fit the overall vibe of each other, whether it be looks or abilities. Take the 1st & the 2nd; they don't look alike at all, the 2nd shows virtually no traits of the 1st and vise versa during our brief view of them. There's also the 7th & 8th, which are polar opposites in terms of powers, they should have literally no common compatibility whatsoever, even in their mannerisms (7th wants everything dead and dark, doubt it's creational double wants the same thing despite apparently having duplicate traits apparently).

I'll always die on the hill that the MC was DOUBLE injected by the 3rd and 4th. Cause it's not like the MC has JUST a portion of the alternative ability, he has damn near the EQUIVALENT mastery of it as much as the main one you pick. Not even the Twins show complete control over both abilities so why would it make sense to be able to inherit BOTH abilities from 1? It makes the 2nd COMPLETELY useless. Why have the Dark Lord if Light Queen can just be Dark Lord every Tuesday? Especially if they can pass on a power that isn't even their created purpose in the first place.

Eh sorry for this rant, guess it just rubs me the wrong way from a narrative perspective that only ONE of the Twins infected you instead of just having both, that way it's an actual team effort, and not just some luck of the draw "happen to have both" abilities to full mastery.
I'm not really understanding the problem here. How would the Apostle Twins sharing their twins ability defeat the purpose? They are born from the same source, the Arbiter. You know, the being that has the original trait of the twins combined? It's not even like they're experts with each other's ability. The 4th is great with her Memory Trait, for obvious reasons, and yet the 3rd sucked at it. Them being able to pass on their twin trait isn't even a big deal, going off of Ella's and Aglaecwif reaction. Also, what does the Apostle Twins appearance have to do with anything? There's nothing that says the twins have to look a like. Even in real life twins don't have to be identical. That seems like an odd point to try and make.

As for you dying on the hill, why would I care? You're allowed to do whatever you want, just like myself. Going with what's shown in game though, we see only one twin infect the MC. We see that one acknowledged by everyone that comments on it and only see that one during majority of the scenes that involve the parent showing up. The MC only refers to one as Mother or Father. Even in the scene with both of them. Aglaecwif also cosigns Ella about Jake being able to get Order, which requires the Power Trait from the 2nd, and we know he's only the spawn of the 1st.

There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.

Hell, why not have more spawns with both traits if all it took was them working together and infecting the same person? So, pick your poison, I guess. Either Ella is only the spawn of the 3rd but she felt like she could get the 4th's trait, which contradicts you since she would know better than us and you said it doesn't work that way. Or she's the spawn of both like the MC but didn't get it regardless of them working together, which would still go against the notion that both infecting a single person gives both traits. Either way you go, it would contradict your own view on it since there's conditions for it all. You can always take option 3 and say Ella was just wrong but then you'll have to say that about a lot of things she said. Especially since she claimed to know more about monsters than any other human or superhuman in game.

Lastly, there's nothing in the story that, "narratively" contradicts getting both from one twin. Monsters pass on their "genes, traits and powers" via infection. It's already confirmed in game that the 3rd and 4th share their traits. If power and traits are passed on via infection then why wouldn't the 4th, who has the Memory Trait and a certain level of the Body Trait, pass on both, if they're compatible enough? Same with the 3rd, who we know has the Memory Trait but is bad at it. The MC having a perfect balance means nothing when his traits were at the very bottom of their growth. It's like saying a Novice Mage with fire and lightning spells is perfect compared to a Expert who has fire mastery with lower lightning spells. Of course he'd seem perfect when he's wielding low level spells currently.


Tldr: Basically, this is being needlessly over complicated when the game shows you plenty of reasons for it to be multiple ways. There really shouldn't be a hang up here besides ones own personal belief getting in the way.

My initial thought was that the 4th just changed MC's memory and made him think that she turned into a hot chick and blew him. But after killing Jake, it's obvious that the 4th can also shapeshift, since she takes a snakelike form to constrict Authority.

Deadend 3 also gives a clue, assuming that the darkness monster is indeed the 7th, that he has some light based power? The one that ultimately kills MC.So I think it's fair to assume that the numbered have both traits to a certain extend.

DrakoGhoul's theory of "cross" inheritance fits these clues,

I think that it's more complex than that and the theory needs to take into account the differences between human and monster physiology. Perhaps in time, through Deryl, we will learn more on the topic.

I do have an uneedlesssly complex theory on the matter, but I don't want to talk about it yet cause I haven't figured it out completely. However for that specific part it's fairly straightforward, even if I'm making some big assumptions.

1) We know that the Arbiter can "possess" the MC.
2) We also know that the Apostles, just like the Arbiter, can't manifest in the "human" plane.
3) We know that Apostles created monsterkind.
4) Lastly we know that Apostles use Avatars to do their business in the material plane, exactly like the Arbiter does with MC.

With these 4 clues, I think that the Avatars are monsters, and they are the children of the Apostles. Essentially the twins fucked each other or used whatever breeding method they have iat their disposal, to create monsters that they possessed.

Due to that, the Avatars do indeed have both powers, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Apostles themselves have both powers.
However, since these avatars carry both traits, it's possible to pass either or both, depending on the host's physiology.
It's not really a theory, to be frank. Ella already confirmed cross inheritance is a thing when she saw that the MC only got shapeshifting and said "I thought as much" even though you're a spawn of the 4th. Her and Aglaecwif thoughts on Jake and inheriting both traits lead to confirmation as well.

You don't really have to look at the 7th. Though I did point it out that he used Light to kill the MC as supporting evidence that the 8th is Light. All you would have to do is look at the 3rd in the beginning after trying the 4th. It's clear he tried to read the MC's Memory but couldn't get it to work without hurting the MC so he used his Devouring Tentacle instead. MC later retells it when talking to Alice and Clark about how he was turned.

The 7th having Light, in some portion, just proves that the Twins, even outside of the 3rd and 4th, share their traits. Even when they don't work together. Could it increase in potency if they did, or the likely hood of their spawn getting both traits? Possibly.

I am of the opinion that this is likely the reason MC was specifically injected.
A cocktail specifically made to give both traits in equal measure.
Monsters don't have to inject a victim to infect them.
They can use whatever medium for infection they like.

Alternatively, maybe their mental invasion- because both use telepathy on MC- infected MC with the Memory trait.
And the injection infected him with the Body trait. Functionally the same, a deliberate infection with both traits.
Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though. Even in that scene when they used their injection, you'll notice the color matches the color of themselves and not a mix of both. The 4th's liquid in her injection is pink, while the 3rd is bluish purple. If the purpose was to give both via that method, only one was required, since they did both and the twin didn't do the other.

If both injections had the same color or the opposite twin came and did it than I could see why one would think they both mixed theirs together. But in game, only one did both and the color matched the twin who did it which would prove only one had a hand in it, not both. If this method is accurate.



Anyway, that ends my ridiculously long post. You guys are going to have to suffer this wall of text because I didn't spoiler shit. :KEK:
 

DrakoGhoul

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Jul 13, 2018
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Gentlemans, I was promoted after the successful spy misson of S.I.N base to become personal agent for Mr Prime Minister Dexter Miliken, which was an opportunity to get a look at the Miliken family. Claudia was such a nice girl so today I bring you the most wealthy family of the entire world.

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Share your thoughts and opinions, I would love to see more and more of them since they feed my corruption. Who know when I reach the peak of it, what will happen? ;)
Damn, Tiffany is hot. I like Claudia as well. Dexter looks smooth but why does he look like he's their brother? He could use a bit of aging up. :KEK:
 

necromater

Engaged Member
Aug 21, 2018
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I'm not really understanding the problem here. How would the Apostle Twins sharing their twins ability defeat the purpose? They are born from the same source, the Arbiter. You know, the being that has the original trait of the twins combined? It's not even like they're experts with each other's ability. The 4th is great with her Memory Trait, for obvious reasons, and yet the 3rd sucked at it. Them being able to pass on their twin trait isn't even a big deal, going off of Ella's and Aglaecwif reaction. Also, what does the Apostle Twins appearance have to do with anything? There's nothing that says the twins have to look a like. Even in real life twins don't have to be identical. That seems like an odd point to try and make.

As for you dying on the hill, why would I care? You're allowed to do whatever you want, just like myself. Going with what's shown in game though, we see only one twin infect the MC. We see that one acknowledged by everyone that comments on it and only see that one during majority of the scenes that involve the parent showing up. The MC only refers to one as Mother or Father. Even in the scene with both of them. Aglaecwif also cosigns Ella about Jake being able to get Order, which requires the Power Trait from the 2nd, and we know he's only the spawn of the 1st.

There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.

Hell, why not have more spawns with both traits if all it took was them working together and infecting the same person? So, pick your poison, I guess. Either Ella is only the spawn of the 3rd but she felt like she could get the 4th's trait, which contradicts you since she would know better than us and you said it doesn't work that way. Or she's the spawn of both like the MC but didn't get it regardless of them working together, which would still go against the notion that both infecting a single person gives both traits. Either way you go, it would contradict your own view on it since there's conditions for it all. You can always take option 3 and say Ella was just wrong but then you'll have to say that about a lot of things she said. Especially since she claimed to know more about monsters than any other human or superhuman in game.

Lastly, there's nothing in the story that, "narratively" contradicts getting both from one twin. Monsters pass on their "genes, traits and powers" via infection. It's already confirmed in game that the 3rd and 4th share their traits. If power and traits are passed on via infection then why wouldn't the 4th, who has the Memory Trait and a certain level of the Body Trait, pass on both, if they're compatible enough? Same with the 3rd, who we know has the Memory Trait but is bad at it. The MC having a perfect balance means nothing when his traits were at the very bottom of their growth. It's like saying a Novice Mage with fire and lightning spells is perfect compared to a Expert who has fire mastery with lower lightning spells. Of course he'd seem perfect when he's wielding low level spells currently.


Tldr: Basically, this is being needlessly over complicated when the game shows you plenty of reasons for it to be multiple ways. There really shouldn't be a hang up here besides ones own personal belief getting in the way.


It's not really a theory, to be frank. Ella already confirmed cross inheritance is a thing when she saw that the MC only got shapeshifting and said "I thought as much" even though you're a spawn of the 4th. Her and Aglaecwif thoughts on Jake and inheriting both traits lead to confirmation as well.

You don't really have to look at the 7th. Though I did point it out that he used Light to kill the MC as supporting evidence that the 8th is Light. All you would have to do is look at the 3rd in the beginning after trying the 4th. It's clear he tried to read the MC's Memory but couldn't get it to work without hurting the MC so he used his Devouring Tentacle instead. MC later retells it when talking to Alice and Clark about how he was turned.

The 7th having Light, in some portion, just proves that the Twins, even outside of the 3rd and 4th, share their traits. Even when they don't work together. Could it increase in potency if they did, or the likely hood of their spawn getting both traits? Possibly.


Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though. Even in that scene when they used their injection, you'll notice the color matches the color of themselves and not a mix of both. The 4th's liquid in her injection is pink, while the 3rd is bluish purple. If the purpose was to give both via that method, only one was required, since they did both and the twin didn't do the other.

If both injections had the same color or the opposite twin came and did it than I could see why one would think they both mixed theirs together. But in game, only one did both and the color matched the twin who did it which would prove only one had a hand in it, not both. If this method is accurate.



Anyway, that ends my ridiculously long post. You guys are going to have to suffer this wall of text because I didn't spoiler shit. :KEK:
Ha joke's on you i Saw the meme first and i knew you were just being mean XD
 
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Aristarkhos

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Jun 23, 2017
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There's also a huge flaw here and I'm surprised you didn't realize it. Why didn't Ella get the Memory Trait if "team work" is the only requirement? Was she unlucky? But according to you, there shouldn't be any luck involved. Ella expected the Memory Trait at multiple points and yet she failed. So is she just the spawn of the 3rd? But if that's the case why would she expect the Memory Trait if team work is what made the dream work? Or is she also the spawn of the 3rd and 4th? But then why didn't she get both if all it takes is "team work" from them? Why wouldn't they work together for Ella, who was also compatible but do it for the MC? Sound like luck does play a part and that the MC is special, regardless if you believed that both of them were required.
Ella most likely simply isn't nearly as compatible with Memory (and Memory's powers) as she is with Body. Which those two would likely recognize. We have yet to see her infection in any flashback or the like. So we can only speculate.

Interesting take. One I haven't really thought about, admittedly. That still would mean only one, potentially, infected the MC though.
I did not contradict this, and I agree. MC is stated at multiple points to be the spawn of one Apostle, not both.
 
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DrakoGhoul

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Ella most likely simply isn't nearly as compatible with Memory (and Memory's powers) as she is with Body. Which those two would likely recognize. We have yet to see her infection in any flashback or the like. So we can only speculate.
That was my point though. She isn't compatible and yet she expected the memory trait to come all the way up until she was level 5. If it wasn't possible at all to inherit the other trait without both doing it, why would she still think she could get it when she was only compatible with the 3rd? Why would she think Jake could get the Power trait and by extension Order, when he's the spawn of the 1st?

Ella knows the most about monsters and she thought it wasn't bizarre that the MC only got shapeshifting, when the 4th did the infecting. That shows that it happened on several occasions prior and while it's not common, there's a chance that some people cross inherit abilities.

I did not contradict this, and I agree. MC is stated at multiple points to be the spawn of one Apostle, not both.
No problem. I expanded on it to show that with this new angle, it would further prove a single twin did it all. I actually didn't think about the scanning memories thing beyond them just checking compatibility. Them using it to pass on the memory trait and then using the injection for the body trait flew under my radar.

I just thought the 4th was being a closet pervert and the 3rd was getting pissed that he couldn't copy his sister so he took drastic actions. He probably was sulking to her after the MC passed out. I'm joking obviously.
 
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Gtdead

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Let me expand a bit on the Apostle powers and why I think it's more complicated. I will delve into my needlessly complex theory, trying to determine the cosmology of this game.

Clue 1) Both Aglaecwif and Valravn refer to Apostles as gods. While Valravn doesn't do explicitly, he doesn't argue when MC calls them gods.

Assumption 1) Apostles are not monsters. They are gods of the lowest order and the originators of monsterkind. They are either the keepers of divine power that shaped the universe or the literal expression of these powers. Each power by itself is unable to shape the universe, but when combined they can. We don't know why the Arbiters created these inheritors and vanished but it seems to be the case.
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Clue 2) Aglaecwif hasn't met any monster or human that has inherited the twin powers since the Origin.

Assumption 2) Avatars are nowhere near the real thing. They are puppets to be used by the Apostles and compared to them it's like kids playing with imaginary swords, not even toy ones. They are flawed monster creations that don't really carry the power of Apostles but a mutated version of it, even if they have access to "both" of the traits. Basically what we think is the pinnacle of monster, is nothing compared to what's a step above.

Assumption 3) Aglaecwif has met with at least one of the Apostle avatars. There was some talk in the forum that she is the direct descendant of an Apostle but I can't find the info in the script so I'll just take it for granded because it fits my theory. So the clue and the assumption combined points to Avatars not having the twin powers.

Clue 3) The origin (Eye) while possessing MC, literally says that the place near where the MC's body awakens is a part of him and born of him.

Assumption 4) The origin is all the matter in the universe. Everything that can be described as matter is an extension of it's body.


Based on these clues and assumptions, it seems to me that the avatars do not have the twin traits themselves, rather a mutated combination of them (just like Oil is part Authority, part Body and part Darkness, but doesn't have the actual 3 original traits), but as with all biological things and taking into account the assumption that they are just the "monsters", birthed from the Apostles themselves, it's possible to pass on their genes. Their power is flawed and the actual traits are recessive, but thanks to MC's unique circumstances, having connection to the Origin, he manages to activate these recessive genes when he gets infected.

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I'm stopping here cause I feel like I'm overreaching again. While I'm trying to follow the clues and tie them to what I believe is the inspiration for the setting, the truth is that we don't have enough info for me to substantiate my theories to a point that I'm confident about them.
 
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DrakoGhoul

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Let me expand a bit on the Apostle powers and why I think it's more complicated. I will delve into my needlessly complex theory, trying to determine the cosmology of this game.

Clue 1) Both Aglaecwif and Valravn refer to Apostles as gods. While Valravn doesn't do explicitly, he doesn't argue when MC calls them gods.

Assumption 1) Apostles are not monsters. They are gods of the lowest order and the originators of monsterkind. They are either the keepers of divine power that shaped the universe or the literal expression of these powers. Each power by itself is unable to shape the universe, but when combined they can. We don't know why the Arbiters created these inheritors and vanished but it seems to be the case.
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Clue 2) Aglaecwif hasn't met any monster or human that has inherited the twin powers since the Origin.

Assumption 2) Avatars are nowhere near the real thing. They are puppets to be used by the Apostles and compared to them it's like kids playing with imaginary swords, not even toy ones. They are flawed monster creations that don't really carry the power of Apostles but a mutated version of it, even if they have access to "both" of the traits. Basically what we think is the pinnacle of monster, is nothing compared to what's a step above.

Assumption 3) Aglaecwif has met with at least one of the Apostle avatars. There was some talk in the forum that she is the direct descendant of an Apostle but I can't find the info in the script so I'll just take it for granded because it fits my theory. So the clue and the assumption combined points to Avatars not having the twin powers.

Clue 3) The origin (Eye) while possessing MC, literally says that the place near where the MC's body awakens is a part of him and born of him.

Assumption 4) The origin is all the matter in the universe. Everything that can be described as matter is an extension of it's body.


Based on these clues and assumptions, it seems to me that the avatars do not have the twin traits themselves, rather a mutated combination of them (just like Oil is part Authority, part Body and part Darkness, but doesn't have the actual 3 original traits), but as with all biological things and taking into account the assumption that they are just the "monsters", birthed from the Apostles themselves, it's possible to pass on their genes. Their power is flawed and the actual traits are recessive, but thanks to MC's unique circumstances, having connection to the Origin, he manages to activate these recessive genes when he gets infected.

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I'm stopping here cause I feel like I'm overreaching again. While I'm trying to follow the clues and tie them to what I believe is the inspiration for the setting, the truth is that we don't have enough info for me to substantiate my theories to a point that I'm confident about them.
There's a few errors here. Aglaecwif said she hasn't met anyone who's obtained the Order trait since the Origin. That's what she said during that scene, not a spawn that inherited two traits, if I remember right. From what I remember, she was talking about Jake during that scene.

As for the Avatars, they do indeed wield the full power of the Apostle. Their bodies can't withstand the power for that long though which leads to their Avatar's destruction. I believe we learned this in the library or it could've been with Aglaecwif. So that's a bit incorrect. They're not mutations or anything. They're avatars backed by their full strength.

When it comes to Aglaecwif, she says during your first encounter that she shares the same lord as the MC. If he has the 4th, she's more direct about. If you have the 3rd, she questions why there's another spawn of the 3rd which makes it iffy. She could be referring to Ella and is confused why there's another one. Or she could be referring to herself, since that would mean she, Ella, and MC would all be the 3rd's spawn. It's too vague for the 3rd but she's direct with the 4th so it's safe to say she's a descendant of the 4th Apostle. She seems to use the Memory trait on the MC during their encounter. As for the 3rd, it's a big question mark.

Now, I'll go into my own theory about the remaining Apostles(9-12) so that could maybe give you an idea.

9th is possibly Death, 10th is Destruction. Together they make Oblivion or nothingness. The reason I came to this conclusion is because their descendants all follow the 7th. Since his trait is Darkness, Death and Destruction wouldn't get in the way of his goal since they all would contribute to dissolution of the universe. Their concepts wouldn't hinder the 7th like Life or creation would and because of that, you get the stuff below.

11th is Life, 12 is Creation. Together they make Genesis. Since the duality is split up for Death and Destruction, Life and Creation would be together. As such, Genesis would be the combined trait. The beginning/birthing of the universe as a whole.

That what I'm working with currently on the theory side. As for the other stuff in your post, I don't really have an opinion one way or another since I'm all over the place myself. Too much stuff is going on in the background in this game to get any sort of consistency going for me.
 

Gtdead

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There's a few errors here. Aglaecwif said she hasn't met anyone who's obtained the Order trait since the Origin. That's what she said during that scene, not a spawn that inherited two traits, if I remember right. From what I remember, she was talking about Jake during that scene.

As for the Avatars, they do indeed wield the full power of the Apostle. Their bodies can't withstand the power for that long though which leads to their Avatar's destruction. I believe we learned this in the library or it could've been with Aglaecwif. So that's a bit incorrect. They're not mutations or anything. They're avatars backed by their full strength.

When it comes to Aglaecwif, she says during your first encounter that she shares the same lord as the MC. If he has the 4th, she's more direct about. If you have the 3rd, she questions why there's another spawn of the 3rd which makes it iffy. She could be referring to Ella and is confused why there's another one. Or she could be referring to herself, since that would mean she, Ella, and MC would all be the 3rd's spawn. It's too vague for the 3rd but she's direct with the 4th so it's safe to say she's a descendant of the 4th Apostle. She seems to use the Memory trait on the MC during their encounter. As for the 3rd, it's a big question mark.

Now, I'll go into my own theory about the remaining Apostles(9-12) so that could maybe give you an idea.

9th is possibly Death, 10th is Destruction. Together they make Oblivion or nothingness. The reason I came to this conclusion is because their descendants all follow the 7th. Since his trait is Darkness, Death and Destruction wouldn't get in the way of his goal since they all would contribute to dissolution of the universe. Their concepts wouldn't hinder the 7th like Life or creation would and because of that, you get the stuff below.

11th is Life, 12 is Creation. Together they make Genesis. Since the duality is split up for Death and Destruction, Life and Creation would be together. As such, Genesis would be the combined trait. The beginning/birthing of the universe as a whole.

That what I'm working with currently on the theory side. As for the other stuff in your post, I don't really have an opinion one way or another since I'm all over the place myself. Too much stuff is going on in the background in this game to get any sort of consistency going for me.
Here is the dialogue, she mentioned Jake but she wasn't talking about him, she was answering the question about the greatest power:
Female "Perhaps Order, would be the greatest power of all, taking the energy required to make full use of it out of the equation."
You "Order? What is that?"
Female "The power to command all things. To structure all things. To write the laws that govern the universe and to have both the Power and the Authority to enforce them."
Female "I've never personally met a being, human or monster that has acquired it since the origin, although..."
show elinv 205 with dissolve
Female "I did, not long ago, hear talk of a potential inheritor, one your Ella had high hopes for. Though it seems to have ended in a failure. A weak mind can ruin even the greatest potential."
show elinv 207 with dissolve
Female "Still, if it were possible to completely inherit the traits of both the First and the Second, to claim one of the original powers... A spawn that could fully realize that strength would be unfathomably powerful."
As for the power of the avatars, the library mentions that their power is beyond anything that Xanthe has seen, but then again, that doesn't mean that the avatars are as strong as the Apostles. The scope of the powers may be way beyond any human can conceptualize, even someone as brilliant as Xanthe. I mean, if I'm right and the possessed MC is literal with what he says, it IS all of the matter in the universe. I don't think that Xanthe and the rest of the HERO have conceptualized these powers as gods (I mean Benhardt calls the Himavat a "god" but to me that's way too iffy). A simple comparison of an avatar corpse to an S ranked monster doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. It's possible that I missed something though.

But yea, my theory is needlessly complex and there are is not enough info to substantiate. It's based on.. ~10 lines of dialogue which are fairly cryptic to begin with.
 
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