VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.996 Public] [WeirdWorld]

[xhib]

On Light vs Time for traveling:

You used an edge case that is iffy at best and isn't exactly supported by what Aglaecwif says. And even if that's the case, the Light Apostle would still not experience time.
1) The Rift can be reached by traveling the cosmos. This means that it's not beyond the cosmic event horizon, otherwise it would be impossible to reach.
2) It would take an eternity for any but the Sixth and the Eighth. Even if the Apostle of Time can freeze time, it would still take him an eternity. The Apostle of Light on the other hand from his perspective would travel instantly, but for the observer an eternity may have passed. Since Aglaecwif doesn't mention observers in any shape or form, it's more likely that it's Space + Light and not Space + Time.
3) In principle, Apostles related to Energy and Mass could potentially travel close to the speed of light, so it's even possible that Light can move faster than light. Xanthe already claims that it's possible for a superhuman to perform physically impossible feats like FTL. The way Nico does it, or a possible entity that freezes time, doesn't break any laws of the universe and both of these are not FTL travel anyway.

Mixed Ancestries and Alice later. I'm focusing this post on Light vs Time because I've been dying to talk about this one.

For clarity, this is what we're talking about.
Aglaecwif: We come from another space, far from here, a dimension, much like the one we're in now, but infinitely larger in scale. It is possible to reach it by simply travelling the cosmos as I understand it, though it would take an eternity for any but the Sixth and the Eighth.

Condition #1: It's possible to reach the Other Dimension by "simply" travelling the cosmos.
Condition #2: It's impossible to reach it for any but the 6th and the 8th in less than an eternity.

First, I'll deal with your points 1-3. Then I'll explain why I think Light fails and why Time doesn't.

Spoiler: Cosmic Event Horizon (If you aren't Gtdead, you can skip this.)

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1) Depends. Sure, the Other Dimension could be well within the Observable Universe, but the horizon is only an impassable barrier to light or anything travelling at the speed of light. If you could reach a sufficient level of FTL to offset the rate that space is expanding, crossing the cosmic event horizon is perfectly possible.

Xanthe did say FTL was possible, right? I'll get to him.

2a) Sure, stopping time doesn't help with the distances. Who said anything about stopping time?

Spoiler: Xhib's Mega-Theory of Apostolic Time

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3) Xanthe's FTL comment is one of two primary reasons why I don't think Light is the 8th.

The problem is prevalence. It breaks Condition #2.

Spoiler: Too many FTL travellers

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Spoiler: Fucking Time Dilation...

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2b. If anyone actually made it this far, you're probably wondering how the fuck can Time do any better than Light?

Spoiler: How Time can surpass Light in speed

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Aside from a few other bits of trivia, I'm pretty much done.

Spoiler: Other reasons to doubt Light.

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[DrakoGhoul]

Now that you mention it, WW's last post here is almost a year old.
Quick question to y'all forum gremlins: do you think WW still reads this thread and just stay silent or did he leave us for good and just comunicates through discord/patreon/etc?

I would say they probably lurk when the update comes out to get feedback. Then go back to working on the game or doing stuff in their personal life.

And if I'm being honest, I'm glad they do it that way, if true. Too many "fans" on this site think their insults are valid criticism of games. It's one thing to address something, point out why it's a problem and then give feedback on how to improve it. It's a whole other thing to throw around personal insults, trash the game and then act surprised when Devs stop interacting with their communities.

I'll use myself as an example. I had a problem with how the MC fought during the final Jake encounter. I explained how the MC could've fought those waves of soldiers better and how he could've been more versatile with his abilities. I assume WW took the feedback and then explained why in the next update when the MC did his training montages. Even before they did that though, I fully acknowledged that those soldiers had better gear than the Klaus fight and that was why the MC couldn't crowd control them better. That's how you give feedback. I wasn't being unreasonable and I overall understood why the fight turned out like that.

Meanwhile, you've had people insult WW because they kept getting dead ends, even though the game tells you to train at multiple points. What other outcome did they expect? Then there's the people that shit on the story when they only played for 15 mins and don't realize their point isn't even valid because of stuff that is explained further. All they had to do is keep playing for a few minutes and they would've got their answer but they rather shitpost.

So yeah, I think WW pops in every now and again for feedback. I think they also upload the public releases here when it comes out, as well. Other than that, they don't comment anymore and I'm fine with it, personally. I rather they work on the game and take time off to relax or do their own thing instead of being bombarded by trolls and people who just want to hate on here. Not sure about their discord as I'm not in it.

 

[Gtdead]

Mixed Ancestries and Alice later. I'm focusing this post on Light vs Time because I've been dying to talk about this one.

For clarity, this is what we're talking about.
Aglaecwif: We come from another space, far from here, a dimension, much like the one we're in now, but infinitely larger in scale. It is possible to reach it by simply travelling the cosmos as I understand it, though it would take an eternity for any but the Sixth and the Eighth.

Condition #1: It's possible to reach the Other Dimension by "simply" travelling the cosmos.
Condition #2: It's impossible to reach it for any but the 6th and the 8th in less than an eternity.

First, I'll deal with your points 1-3. Then I'll explain why I think Light fails and why Time doesn't.

Spoiler: Cosmic Event Horizon (If you aren't Gtdead, you can skip this.)

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1) Depends. Sure, the Other Dimension could be well within the Observable Universe, but the horizon is only an impassable barrier to light or anything travelling at the speed of light. If you could reach a sufficient level of FTL to offset the rate that space is expanding, crossing the cosmic event horizon is perfectly possible.

Xanthe did say FTL was possible, right? I'll get to him.

2a) Sure, stopping time doesn't help with the distances. Who said anything about stopping time?

Spoiler: Xhib's Mega-Theory of Apostolic Time

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3) Xanthe's FTL comment is one of two primary reasons why I don't think Light is the 8th.

The problem is prevalence. It breaks Condition #2.

Spoiler: Too many FTL travellers

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Spoiler: Fucking Time Dilation...

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2b. If anyone actually made it this far, you're probably wondering how the fuck can Time do any better than Light?

Spoiler: How Time can surpass Light in speed

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Aside from a few other bits of trivia, I'm pretty much done.

Spoiler: Other reasons to doubt Light.

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First things first, since these theories take some time to put in words and present, I want to at least make sure that I've understood your argument correctly.

Is this an accurate representation?

Xanthe can determine that FTL is possible through observation of a small sample of superhumans
That would mean that among monsters it should be relatively common.
So if a powerful monster has a power that is "suited" to speed, it can probably reach FTL.
Traffic lights since they mess with time probably come from the Apostle of Time.
The green traffic light power creates extreme acceleration throught some process.
That would mean that the Apostle of Time has a power suited to speed and can reach FTL.
In space since it's a vacuum, an entity can keep accelerating itself.
The Apostle of Light is by it's definition limited around the speed of light constant even if he can reach FTL.
The Apostle of Time in comparison can keep accelerating forever.

-----------------

Second, I like this theory and the way you made the connections. It makes a lot of sense. However we disagree on the premise, which is
based heavily on how we interpret Xanthe's ideas. Since my interpretation isn't objectively better or "truer" than yours, there is no need to
argue against your points. In fact if you are correct on your interpretation, I'd agree with you on almost every point.

-----------------

To keep this interesting and since I've thought a lot about it, I want to give my own interpretation and how I think these powers work in case
someone finds it interesting. What can I say, I'm a sucker for sci-fi, especially one mixed with fantasy. This game seriously outclasses
any superhero movie in existence by miles.

My arguments:

Spoiler: My intepretation of Xanthe's 4th evolution research

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Spoiler: How I understand monster powers in general

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Spoiler: Are superhumans even capable of breaking the laws of the universe?

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[Gtdead]

Ok but did you count for endo and exo traits? Or is just one general formula because Michael skill is a game changer mate became a lithium battery XD. He needs 3 types of Energy internal,external and monster so is like a fire triangle also alice Evo was on clark steroids XD plus her almost perfect match with Big Daddy E we gonna Need her updated dosier to be sure. fucking W.W wiping his butt with our theories every royal rumble he makes also MC has some Energy absortion is just that he still needs to learn how to use it. Man this shit is so hard we would have to make a study of every superhuman to get an answer. Fuck this is worse than a phd study.

I think Michael is fairly straightforward in how he works. His body is capable of absorbing and storing various forms of energy. If you burn him he absorbs heat. If you electrocute him he absorbs electricity.

To use that energy in any meaningful capacity, he also needs to suck supernatural energy, and the only way he knows how to do it is to absorb sacrificed/killed monsters. So he essentially mixes these two types of energies and uses his own power as a catalyst to launch an attack.

I think his energy "stores" and his Power stat are completely unrelated. His body is a gun. Normal energy is the bullet casing/tip and supernatural energy is the gunpowder. Which is clever as fuck narratively. Michael was always reliant on guns and limited ammunition to fight. So he turned into a supernatural gun with a limited supply of ammunition. But least he also is the ammunition factory.

 

[necromater]

Yo. Syther why are you and your fellow beastclappers like this? XD

 

[BruceBerserk]

Hey yall do you think any more of the MC's friends are going to become Superhuman (or monsterify)?

theres the whole twin abduction thing going on which my guess for as to why is some S.I.N plot to to get twin apsostles to infect twins so they can get someapsotle superhumans, which if thats the case Amber and liz could get thrown into the superhuman ring.

then theres claudia whose Dexters kid so she's sure to get to be an apostles spawn

theres Emily whose friends with Ella and if my shit memory serves me correct she had a crazy level of physical compatibility with monsters and ella couldn't pick one, that and her mind wasn't strong enough then to endure an infection. personally i think if she got infected by the dark lord or some other death dark etc themed apostle it'd be based, imagine dark knight goth emily, itd be badass.

any other friends yall want to see involved in the SUPERHUMAN struggle

 

[BruceBerserk]

View attachment 2754050
Yo. Syther why are you and your fellow beastclappers like this? XD

if they wish to fuck animals they deserve to be hunted down like animals, brothers and sisters of all factions we must unite against the feral taint, Ella militants, Alice Apostles, Emily groupies, amber acolytes, and all other human/superhuman waifu factions, we must unite under one banner, the titties of mankind, and go forth with righteous fervor to protect the innocent hound shadow from the clutches of the feral fuckers who would desecrate the sanctity of mans best friend, and the ancient bond between them, emily groupies fight for the safety of your dog, and everybody else fight because ferals are just weird,
with me brothers and sisters, and forward into war!

 

[necromater]

if they wish to fuck animals they deserve to be hunted down like animals, brothers and sisters of all factions we must unite against the feral taint, Ella militants, Alice Apostles, Emily groupies, amber acolytes, and all other human/superhuman waifu factions, we must unite under one banner, the titties of mankind, and go forth with righteous fervor to protect the innocent hound shadow from the clutches of the feral fuckers who would desecrate the sanctity of mans best friend, and the ancient bond between them, emily groupies fight for the safety of your dog, and everybody else fight because ferals are just weird,
with me brothers and sisters, and forward into war!

View attachment 2754102

Yeah... Mother says No Killing each other but insulting and incest are fair play so yeah XD. Thx for meme now i have something for when he is high as a kite

 

[xhib]

Is this an accurate representation?

Xanthe can determine that FTL is possible through observation of a small sample of superhumans
That would mean that among monsters it should be relatively common.
So if a powerful monster has a power that is "suited" to speed, it can probably reach FTL.
Traffic lights since they mess with time probably come from the Apostle of Time.
The green traffic light power creates extreme acceleration throught some process.
That would mean that the Apostle of Time has a power suited to speed and can reach FTL.
In space since it's a vacuum, an entity can keep accelerating itself.
The Apostle of Light is by it's definition limited around the speed of light constant even if he can reach FTL.
The Apostle of Time in comparison can keep accelerating forever.

Yeah, that's an accurate representation of my argument. A little fucking depressing to see my great wall of text so neatly summarized, but I think the context was necessary. Still, I am not concise.

On the Limit Break
One of the things I think the game does really well is creating a variety of authoritative viewpoints with their own insights, biases and blindspots. Ella and Xanthe are the best examples. However, both of them seem to agree that a Superhuman's relationship to the laws of the universe changes at Level 4. I put a quote from Ella in the spoiler below that addresses that point directly. I wrote that first, so if it doesn't seem to address this post. That's why.

Between that quote and Xanthe's comments on the Limit Break, I'm not holding out much hope that our universe's laws will govern Levels 4 & 5 let alone the Apostles, Arbiters and beyond. That said, they should still act as the framework that WeirdWorld's setting and power system rests upon. Guiding, but not binding. As long as the story is internally consistent, I'll manage. The moment stories start breaking their own rules, the world unravels for me and I lose interest.

The only comment I'll make about Supernatural Energy is that if it's both a Superhuman's power source and their lifeforce, Michael's ability to drain it from those weaker than him has the potential to be absolutely broken at its apex.

On Alice having both powers:

1) In the special relativity model, space and time are linked. WW uses a lot of concepts based on physics so it's fair to assume that at the very least, the classical model is important enough to take into account when discussing the game.
2) The player can observe that space and time related powers are very different from each other. Also considering that the Apostles come in pairs that are loosely linked in scope, it makes sense that if we have a Space apostle, we also have a Time apostle that is probably it's twin.
3) Gravity is the result of warped spacetime. But we mostly observe gravity through mass effect on spatial dimensions and time dillation is an aftereffect in a sense. If we had to choose one of Space and Time to attribute to gravity powers, that would be Space.
4) If Alice's powers are the result of both Space and Time, then they are inferior. All the "lesser" superhumans have very focused superpowers with limited applications. Tiffany can turn herself into light, use photobiomodulation or charge batteries, and that's only as a level 1. Clark on the other hand is a level 5 with a focused power that can only empower living and inanimate things, a fraction of what Tiffany can do. Same with MC. He can use his powers together or seperate, while Alice assuming that has both, can only use a combined version.

The way I see it, Alice's power is strong but flawed. A true heir of Space would be able to do whatever he wanted with it. He could teleport, create pocket dimensions, warp the three dimensions changing the trajectory of anything he wanted. Alice can only do the latter and the application is a bit iffy. Perhaps she hasn't figured it out, perhaps it's possible to get an upgrade if she manages to do whatever the Apostle asks of her. Who knows.

If on the other hand, Alice's power is indeed the untainted trait, it's possible that her powers of gravity is the "dumb brain liking fists", but essentially she warps space and creates gravity, but with enough power she can manage to create wormholes, change trajectories and other stuff like that.

Also, replying to your points on Alice from your previous post. Mixed Ancestry is a lot more complicated.

Spoiler: Alice having both powers

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[necromater]

So are we Killing furries or we are gonna keep talking of why Alice is second best waifu because mother is first? i'm fine with either maybe both XD. The problem is alice needs to thinks outside the box she just looks for the Easy way to do things gonna get creative maybe a few war Crimes like when she nuked the traitors and the Office.

 

[BruceBerserk]

 

[BruceBerserk]

 

[zeraligator]

With all the talk of 'my primal need to impregnate' and 'too bad she's on the pill' in a lot of the scenes, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the pregnancy tag pop up one of these days. Possibly with a 'you've been making anti-anticontraceptives subconsciously' as an explanation. I certainly wouldn't mind.

 

[devilsdetails]

I think Michael is fairly straightforward in how he works. His body is capable of absorbing and storing various forms of energy. If you burn him he absorbs heat. If you electrocute him he absorbs electricity.

To use that energy in any meaningful capacity, he also needs to suck supernatural energy, and the only way he knows how to do it is to absorb sacrificed/killed monsters. So he essentially mixes these two types of energies and uses his own power as a catalyst to launch an attack.

I think his energy "stores" and his Power stat are completely unrelated. His body is a gun. Normal energy is the bullet casing/tip and supernatural energy is the gunpowder. Which is clever as fuck narratively. Michael was always reliant on guns and limited ammunition to fight. So he turned into a supernatural gun with a limited supply of ammunition. But least he also is the ammunition factory.

I agree that this is really clever. Ella talks about how a Superhuman's mindset and way of relating to their powers effect how those powers develop. In theory Jake could have gained the ability to "Command" inanimate objects but he just didn't think of his powers that way so it didn't develop that way. Micheal thinking of himself as a weapon and wanting to never rely on an "inferior" weapon could have influenced his powers into making him a walking weapon. Narratively it could also act as brake on his Growth since he may need to break out of that mental mapping to gain more esoteric aspects of the 2nd's abilities

 

[ItzSyther]

View attachment 2754050
Yo. Syther why are you and your fellow beastclappers like this? XD

Ain't nothing wrong with getting some of that sweet bearussy my brother in mommy 4th. Human girls are sooooo overrated.

if they wish to fuck animals they deserve to be hunted down like animals, brothers and sisters of all factions we must unite against the feral taint, Ella militants, Alice Apostles, Emily groupies, amber acolytes, and all other human/superhuman waifu factions, we must unite under one banner, the titties of mankind, and go forth with righteous fervor to protect the innocent hound shadow from the clutches of the feral fuckers who would desecrate the sanctity of mans best friend, and the ancient bond between them, emily groupies fight for the safety of your dog, and everybody else fight because ferals are just weird,
with me brothers and sisters, and forward into war!

View attachment 2754102

We've prepared for this day for so long.

But you all lack one thing in comparison to us Dogclappers...you lack unity. The moment the dogclappers disappear you are all back at each others throats. But not us, the dogclappers. We are unified under the greatest girl only second to mommy 4th herself.

We stand at the precipice my brothers against the hateful swarms. We lack the numbers, but we do not lack the faith our dearest Lady Shadow grants us and with our fervent belief in Mommy 4th's superiority we shall be victorious!

A mustache man who was quite evil once said "All you have to do is kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will crumble to the ground" we shall do this to this 'unified' front against our fair lady and those ever loyal to her.

But as mommy says in the tome, we aren't allowed to wage war against each other so instead....

I insult ye sir! You and all your foul wenches and their issues! Lady Shadow has no issues except being a protective sister! All hail the beta breaker! All hail protector of the weak willed! All hail the best girl! Lady Shadow reigns supreme

 

[DrakoGhoul]

With all the talk of 'my primal need to impregnate' and 'too bad she's on the pill' in a lot of the scenes, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the pregnancy tag pop up one of these days. Possibly with a 'you've been making anti-anticontraceptives subconsciously' as an explanation. I certainly wouldn't mind.

Superhumans can't get each other(unless they have a function in their power to allow it) or humans pregnant. We learn this in game. Some monsters are fair game though and we've already knocked up our Elder Monster Sister, Aglaecwif. The tag just wasn't add after this update like the Harem tag hasn't been, even though we have multiple women and more than 2 know about each other.

I agree that this is really clever. Ella talks about how a Superhuman's mindset and way of relating to their powers effect how those powers develop. In theory Jake could have gained the ability to "Command" inanimate objects but he just didn't think of his powers that way so it didn't develop that way. Micheal thinking of himself as a weapon and wanting to never rely on an "inferior" weapon could have influenced his powers into making him a walking weapon. Narratively it could also act as brake on his Growth since he may need to break out of that mental mapping to gain more esoteric aspects of the 2nd's abilities

The thing is, technically Michael should be an inferior weapon. As Ella said, he wasn't highly compatible with the 2nd but she gave him the pill anyway. He was originally compatible with the Leigong, who's an 8th Gen that has a 58% origin to the 2nd. It's likely that he'll fall into the same category as Jake, in terms of not getting the Power Trait to it's fullest like the MC and Ella did for the Body Trait.

Though, for Michael, it wouldn't be his fault like Jake. It would be because of him not originally being too compatible with it. He'll likely diverge further away from the "True" Power Trait as he progress. He'll still be powerful, as are most Apostle spawns. He just likely won't reach the same height as Ella, Valravn, MC, Alice or Tiffany with the Apostle Trait.

 

[devilsdetails]

Speaking of monster stats. has anyone got the new one for the Chimera just released on Patreon?

 

[Dominosaur]

The thing is, technically Michael should be an inferior weapon. As Ella said, he wasn't highly compatible with the 2nd but she gave him the pill anyway. He was originally compatible with the Leigong, who's an 8th Gen that has a 58% origin to the 2nd. It's likely that he'll fall into the same category as Jake, in terms of not getting the Power Trait to it's fullest like the MC and Ella did for the Body Trait.

Though, for Michael, it wouldn't be his fault like Jake. It would be because of him not originally being too compatible with it. He'll likely diverge further away from the "True" Power Trait as he progress. He'll still be powerful, as are most Apostle spawns. He just likely won't reach the same height as Ella, Valravn, MC, Alice or Tiffany with the Apostle Trait.

I don't know about that. She might have offered him the Leigong pill under the assumption that he just wasn't that important? Something like "gods looking at Ants"

She gave MC the 3rd/4th pill because she specifically needed Us, and she gave Jake the 1st pill because that's rare and powerful, but she might not respect the 2nd in that way. If we take Power to mean a sort of Energy, there are a lot of energy users. Klaus, Danica, Malik, maybe Clark...And again those are just the ones we've seen.

It also might be like..."Calling the 2nd without an offering is a super bad idea" and she didn't expect a human could beat a monster to begin with.

 

[dd82]

Superhumans can't get each other(unless they have a function in their power to allow it) or humans pregnant. We learn this in game. Some monsters are fair game though and we've already knocked up our Elder Monster Sister, Aglaecwif. The tag just wasn't add after this update like the Harem tag hasn't been, even though we have multiple women and more than 2 know about each other.

I expect there to be the exception that two superhumans could possibly have children if they shared the same monster progenitor, and I bet the MC could get Ella pregnant if she allowed it. Her not being able to have children could have fucked her up pretty bad too, we don't know. Maybe that's one of the reasons she runs an orphanage.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I don't know about that. She might have offered him the Leigong pill under the assumption that he just wasn't that important? Something like "gods looking at Ants"

She gave MC the 3rd/4th pill because she specifically needed Us, and she gave Jake the 1st pill because that's rare and powerful, but she might not respect the 2nd in that way. If we take Power to mean a sort of Energy, there are a lot of energy users. Klaus, Danica, Malik, maybe Clark...And again those are just the ones we've seen.

It also might be like..."Calling the 2nd without an offering is a super bad idea" and she didn't expect a human could beat a monster to begin with.

What? She tells Michael directly that "He's not an exact fit like MC(3rd/4th) and Jake(1st)" after "maybe" underselling him previously. She's talking about compatibility with the 2nd here, not her plan. She was the one that approached him and gave the Leigong pill before the MC evolved to Level 2. Why would she even hand him the Leigong pill in the first place, if not because he was highly compatible with it? Ella doesn't just try to turn anybody. She looks at compatibility first. Which is why she gave Jake and the MC pills in the first place. If they aren't compatible enough, she wouldn't give them pills or even build plans for them.

With that said, Michael was the one that asked Ella for another pill weeks later. He was never intended to become an Apostle Spawn prior to that moment. The reason he needed an offering was likely because he wasn't compatible enough to meet the requirements on his own. By killing a monster in the 2nd's line, as a human, and giving it to the 2nd, it showed that he's worthy to be it's spawn. Even if his compatibility was slightly lower than required.

Also, Clark's power is under the 8th Apostle, which is most likely Light, with Tiffany. Not the 2nd Apostle's Power Trait. Danica's power might also be under it as well as it's called "Cross Light", though her parent, M-65 Gestas, could have mixtures from other lines.

I expect there to be the exception that two superhumans could possibly have children if they shared the same monster progenitor, and I bet the MC could get Ella pregnant if she allowed it. Her not being able to have children could have fucked her up pretty bad too, we don't know. Maybe that's one of the reasons she runs an orphanage.

Ella's been running an orphanage since she was 16, apparently. I don't think it has anything to do with wanting kids of her own. It's because she's an orphan herself and she wants to build a loyal army under her. It's more than likely a companionship thing. She also wants them to call her big sis, not mom.

As for the breeding stuff, I've said that there may be some exceptions, via a superhuman power, but I don't personally think Ella and the MC can have kids together unless one of them turned into a monster first. If Ella wanted the MC's baby, why would she prevent it from happening on their multiple encounters? Seems to run a bit counter to it, if that's what she yearned for the most.

I guess we'll revisit this in the future when more info comes out. HERO isn't infallible when it comes to monster related stuff.