VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.996 Public] [WeirdWorld]

[ItzSyther]

So not trap, but trans?

Not exactly? From what I can tell either iteration of Demi is a biological male or female. Meaning, if a player selected female that version has eggs meanwhile the male has sperm.

Due to the appearance of Demi that makes them a trap, anyone can stare at them and assume either gender, I personally think they are female appearance wise but someone else could assume male or be neutral on the topic.

Also as far as I can tell no character in the game thus far is trans or confirmed to be (we have had some body modifications and the MC genderbending I guess that could be considered trans in a way?) but Demi is just a trap who isn't really one cause the wise sage Weird decided to ruin the surprise lol.

 

[Neverwonder]

but wasn't the prisoner chick (i think his name was nikki?) a trap too since he was born a male but was very feminine looking before he was turn into a chick?

 

[ItzSyther]

but wasn't the prisoner chick (i think his name was nikki?) a trap too since he was born a male but was very feminine looking before he was turn into a chick?

Yeah, they could be considered a trap too...although much like Demi its kinda well...revealed and kinda takes the wind out of the who surprise trap thing but yeah still a trap.

I mean considering it was an all male prison I imagine there were others in there or could Nikki be considered a twink? I think Nikki fits that category since he was rather open about himself being a man at the time.

 

[Neverwonder]

I always though a trap was someone looking the opposite of their birth gender like Astolfo from Fate or Sakura Ogami from Danganronpa. One look like a girl but is a boy and one that look like a boy is a girl

 

[ItzSyther]

I always though a trap was someone looking the opposite of their birth gender like Astolfo from Fate or Sakura Ogami from Danganronpa. One look like a girl but is a boy and one that look like a boy is a girl

Same, although there are other things that are quite similar to 'trap' so might depend on what Weird is doing.

I'm not exactly a fan of how he handled trap content but then again I don't particularly care about it to begin with. I do like the fact we have a choice on deciding the gender (of Demi at least) but it kinda ruins the mystique if you know what I mean.

Demi's a character who if I'm not wrong the game even says you can't really tell so the fact we have a choice it kinda kills the whole mystery...and god damn it papa syther loves himself a good mystery... is there a shlong down there or the gates to heaven ...or rather the gates to potential child support

 

[Dragon59]

Same, although there are other things that are quite similar to 'trap' so might depend on what Weird is doing.

I'm not exactly a fan of how he handled trap content but then again I don't particularly care about it to begin with. I do like the fact we have a choice on deciding the gender (of Demi at least) but it kinda ruins the mystique if you know what I mean.

Demi's a character who if I'm not wrong the game even says you can't really tell so the fact we have a choice it kinda kills the whole mystery...and god damn it papa syther loves himself a good mystery... is there a shlong down there or the gates to heaven ...or rather the gates to potential child support

So you'd like a third button that says "Surprise Me."

 

[ItzSyther]

So you'd like a third button that says "Surprise Me."

Exactly! It'll make the whole 'trap' content better at least in regards to Demi, that way we don't really know until we get dem pants off.

Nikki sadly we'd figure it out pretty easily since ya know...all male prison and all.

 

[Neverwonder]

I just always thought of the option to choice demi gender as a weird way of how their power affect us and that by picking the gender we are "seeing" what we want to see. then again I never really care for trap content so i could be wrong.

 

[ItzSyther]

I just always thought of the option to choice demi gender as a weird way of how their power affect us and that by picking the gender we are "seeing" what we want to see. then again I never really care for trap content so i could be wrong.

Hmm, kinda like the Asari in mass effect? I recall that they have the ability to affect the other races perception of them. Hell there's a whole dialogue where a buncha males from different races (Salarian, turian, etc) comment how the Asari look similar to their women or whatever.

And due to the fact we play the game through the eyes of a human they look more human more or less.

Demi might have somethin like that goin on.

Also, I think demi basically confirms her power had little to no effect on MC (I think) which was how they were able to conclude the MC was the Hero the whole world was talkin bout.

 

[Neverwonder]

Hmm, kinda like the Asari in mass effect? I recall that they have the ability to affect the other races perception of them. Hell there's a whole dialogue where a buncha males from different races (Salarian, turian, etc) comment how the Asari look similar to their women or whatever.

And due to the fact we play the game through the eyes of a human they look more human more or less.

Demi might have somethin like that goin on.

Also, I think demi basically confirms her power had little to no effect on MC (I think) which was how they were able to conclude the MC was the Hero the whole world was talkin bout.

Idk about the asari since I never play mass effect. But I thought Demi power did effect us but in a small manner like them making us see a remote as a gold bar or if your playing a non corrupt path make us not want to kill clover, but those were all after the training with the mc to better control their power. I don't really remember if their power did really effect us before then other then maybe us just liking them or us being more friendly with them

 

[ItzSyther]

Idk about the asari since I never play mass effect. But I thought Demi power did effect us but in a small manner like them making us see a remote as a gold bar or if your playing a non corrupt path make us not want to kill clover, but those were all after the training with the mc to better control their power. I don't really remember if their power did really effect us before then other then maybe us just liking them or us being more friendly with them

Honestly it's a bit hard to tell if Demi had any effect on MC early on. If a prior discussion some of the more dedicated folks said a few pages back about the advantage MC has due to having 2 parents he might of just been too strong even at level 1 to be affected by them properly since they had no training.

But then I have to question something...if MC by the time he encounters clover (during the kidnapping thing) MC should be level 2 by that point right? Even with training I have no clue how Demi can affect MC who has such a power gap over em.

Jake is a good example of this despite the fact MC was ahead he was able to 'catch' up somewhat and when we head back to the party house he is in a room with Liz and Amber and can command the MC to leave but if the player trained enough he can resist that command by saying "What did you say to me?!?" (Something like that)

I doubt Demi evolved or maybe the MC just had his guard down so much that they could have some influence I mean she isn't a threat to him so I can see how he'd let his guard down somewhat.

 

[Dominosaur]

Ella actually talks about this, and I have my own theories. Basically when the MC meets Demi, he is evo 1. He's "Pretty Strong" and growing at an astonishing rate, but Demi has had their powers for around 5 years at that point. Even with just their..."Endurance" training (They say having too many people looking at them used to tire them out and now they can emcee for an auditorium full of fans), over a 5 year period, Demi probably had around 10-15 power, at least. From there two things happened.
1, Demi "got their hooks" into the MC. Ella talks about this wrt Jake, but any 'psychic interference' seems to be sticky. It can be broken out of, but if you don't think to do it...
2. Demi just got to talk with and bond with MC. Obviously, anyone can dislike Demi, but I think the subtext of their relationship is "Demi is a nice person who likes me, and my super hero form" so he never has that "THE FIRST DOES NOT CONTROL ME" moment. He's trapped by Demi, the same way your blanket traps you when it's cold in your room in the morning and you don't want to go to work.


Also, Demi's power is almost "intentionally weak" and combined with their lack of malice, they can affect people they shouldn't be able to. As Ella explains it, "When you're in danger, your powers will naturally work to protect you." Demi, in many dimensions, isn't dangerous, and they don't try to be. Their power also works much more subtly (Literally, it's done subconsciously). Whe Jake infiltrates H.E.R.O. the first time, it's because he's not asking Alex to do anything she would be really opposed to. That's Demi's whole meta, except that's also who they are. It's not an act for them. Notably, the only times you can kill Demi are when they preset themself as dangerous: Either when they reveal they know your identity, and you can, in paranoia, kill them to hide the secret, or when they straight up threaten to expose you. (Even after killing Clover, the MC doesn't think to kill Demi until they threaten him first)

As a aside, I like to think Demi would basically introduce themself to anyone they meet in H.E.R.O. as "Hi, I'm Demi, I am required by law to inform you that I have a power that makes you like me. Please evaluate yourself so that you don't succumb to it. I hope we can be friends regardless!"

 

[Neverwonder]

Honestly it's a bit hard to tell if Demi had any effect on MC early on. If a prior discussion some of the more dedicated folks said a few pages back about the advantage MC has due to having 2 parents he might of just been too strong even at level 1 to be affected by them properly since they had no training.

But then I have to question something...if MC by the time he encounters clover (during the kidnapping thing) MC should be level 2 by that point right? Even with training I have no clue how Demi can affect MC who has such a power gap over em.

Jake is a good example of this despite the fact MC was ahead he was able to 'catch' up somewhat and when we head back to the party house he is in a room with Liz and Amber and can command the MC to leave but if the player trained enough he can resist that command by saying "What did you say to me?!?" (Something like that)

I doubt Demi evolved or maybe the MC just had his guard down so much that they could have some influence.

I mean for what I remember in game with jake his command was more forceful so he probably put some power behind it and even back then when the mc just just level two he could have felt "something" trying to rule him over so he resisted even if subconsciously, but with demi it was more of a plead and depending on your corruption you could either ignore it or follow their wish in not killing clover thus lettings their power effect you in a small way. that the best I could explain it since im pretty sure there was a topic on how similiter demi and jake power were. As I see jake power as more of an "Order" where if he say something to some one they either do it, experience it or just straights up believe him where as with demi how i see their power is more like "desire" if that correct they can make them see what they want to see or something more passives is making other people like her more where they like to hang around with her more and not harm her and if left alone for too long it will make the protective of her where they will hunt and kill anyone that as so much as look at her funny. at least that how I see it

 

[Neverwonder]

Ella actually talks about this, and I have my own theories. Basically when the MC meets Demi, he is evo 1. He's "Pretty Strong" and growing at an astonishing rate, but Demi has had their powers for around 5 years at that point. Even with just their..."Endurance" training (They say having too many people looking at them used to tire them out and now they can emcee for an auditorium full of fans), over a 5 year period, Demi probably had around 10-15 power, at least. From there two things happened.
1, Demi "got their hooks" into the MC. Ella talks about this wrt Jake, but any 'psychic interference' seems to be sticky. It can be broken out of, but if you don't think to do it...
2. Demi just got to talk with and bond with MC. Obviously, anyone can dislike Demi, but I think the subtext of their relationship is "Demi is a nice person who likes me, and my super hero form" so he never has that "THE FIRST DOES NOT CONTROL ME" moment. He's trapped by Demi, the same way your blanket traps you when it's cold in your room in the morning and you don't want to go to work.


Also, Demi's power is almost "intentionally weak" and combined with their lack of malice, they can affect people they shouldn't be able to. As Ella explains it, "When you're in danger, your powers will naturally work to protect you." Demi, in many dimensions, isn't dangerous, and they don't try to be. Their power also works much more subtly (Literally, it's done subconsciously). Whe Jake infiltrates H.E.R.O. the first time, it's because he's not asking Alex to do anything she would be really opposed to. That's Demi's whole meta, except that's also who they are. It's not an act for them. Notably, the only times you can kill Demi are when they preset themself as dangerous: Either when they reveal they know your identity, and you can, in paranoia, kill them to hide the secret, or when they straight up threaten to expose you. (Even after killing Clover, the MC doesn't think to kill Demi until they threaten him first)

As a aside, I like to think Demi would basically introduce themself to anyone they meet in H.E.R.O. as "Hi, I'm Demi, I am required by law to inform you that I have a power that makes you like me. Please evaluate yourself so that you don't succumb to it. I hope we can be friends regardless!"

Yeah what he said

 

[Dominosaur]

Glad you said Desire, because that also comes up when MC is reading Demi's mind...Or trying to.

[Part of why I think Demi might be related to the. Fooourth? Memory? Is because even though by that point, MC is evo 2, he has trouble reading Demi's mind, which makes me think of how powers have some "Rock Paper Scissors" to them (Like how Valravn nullifies Nico, or Alice sort of nullifies Klaus).]

He mentions that he has trouble reading them and figuring out their power, but does mention the word 'desire' iirc. My game is being weird (because it's been strung together from version 0.21, so a lot of flags are messed up on old saves) so I ca't find the actual text.

 

[Neverwonder]

Glad you said Desire, because that also comes up when MC is reading Demi's mind...Or trying to.

[Part of why I think Demi might be related to the. Fooourth? Memory? Is because even though by that point, MC is evo 2, he has trouble reading Demi's mind, which makes me think of how powers have some "Rock Paper Scissors" to them (Like how Valravn nullifies Nico, or Alice sort of nullifies Klaus).]

He mentions that he has trouble reading them and figuring out their power, but does mention the word 'desire' iirc. My game is being weird (because it's been strung together from version 0.21, so a lot of flags are messed up on old saves) so I ca't find the actual text.

I kinda though jake and demi power were more related to each other

 

[Dominosaur]

I kinda though jake and demi power were more related to each other

Demi's monster, unlike the MC and Jake, was not an apostle, so they could be related to multiple sources. I think I've said it before, but my theory is "1st, 4th, 8th"

 

[RonaldGrand6969]

Demi's monster, unlike the MC and Jake, was not an apostle, so they could be related to multiple sources. I think I've said it before, but my theory is "1st, 4th, 8th"

Not every monster is a mix of a bunch of Apostles, it most likely is a direct first born of the 1st or perhaps a second born, regardless literally the ONLY real ability is Perception, not Desire. We know Jake can issue commands so far as to make you think the person in front of you is your son, replace information, etc.

Demi doesn't change your Memories of any events so it's not a mix of the 4th, she sure as SHIT doesn't move at light speed, in fact her body is incredibly weak, probably due to her power being ONLY mental. I really don't see how it could be related to anyone else unless we are just throwing Apostles out there for the sake of it. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and concede that we don't know what the 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th are, but out of all the Apostles we do know, Demi and her monster only relate to the 1st, so it's probably only a close descendant of that alone.

 

[Dominosaur]

Not every monster is a mix of a bunch of Apostles, it most likely is a direct first born of the 1st or perhaps a second born, regardless literally the ONLY real ability is Perception, not Desire. We know Jake can issue commands so far as to make you think the person in front of you is your son, replace information, etc.

Demi doesn't change your Memories of any events so it's not a mix of the 4th, she sure as SHIT doesn't move at light speed, in fact her body is incredibly weak, probably due to her power being ONLY mental. I really don't see how it could be related to anyone else unless we are just throwing Apostles out there for the sake of it. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and concede that we don't know what the 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th are, but out of all the Apostles we do know, Demi and her monster only relate to the 1st, so it's probably only a close descendant of that alone.

Oh, is that what that scene with the MC said? Perception? Thanks for looking that up. I appreciate your enabling my laziness.

I wouldn't say "mix of apostles" because that makes it sound stronger. I'd think of it more as a mutt. An impure monster brought on through strife or alliance, or accident.

Anyway, you agree on the 1st, so I am going to go over the other two.

4: This gets into my own philosophy but like. You can't see anything. Your eyes process information, then your brain looks at that information, then creates a narrative of what just happened. If someone shows you three images of a closed door, a half open door, and an open door, in that order, with the sound of a door creak over them (for example, a three CG "animation" of a door opening as you might see in some kind of VN) the you think "That door opened" but you didn't actually see the door open. In this way, while we think of memories as being "things in the past that we remember" because our brain is always processing things, it would be more accurate to say "All of recognized human experience, including what you are seeing, doing and feeling right now, is memory"

And this is what Demi is manipulating, albeit subconsciously. They're not "Controlling People" they're changing how people perceive the world, to make them appear more favorable. Which LOOKS like controlling people, but it's the difference between Mind Control and Propaganda.

8: The other thing we know the 8th apostle can do (assuming (I think rightly) that Tiffany has the 8th apostle) is Imbue people with energy. While we can see this energy used as a strengthening thing, I imagine (Again "I Imagine") This imbuement can give other things. We don't know sources on everything, but we have seen a few "debuff" type abilities all marked with glowing light, like Oscar and the Wepewat, as well as the Radiation magnet that Deryl had. I think Demi's power isn't just writing over people's perceptions while they're perceiving Demi. I think Demi is imparting their power, a little bit, to alter the target's perceptions after they stop seeing Demi. It's why repeated, prolonged exposure has a gradually more extreme effect. (And also explains how Demi can "cure" Clover)

From the...I think 4? monsters we have profiles for, 2 of them are naturally hybrids of 3 different apostles, and one of them is Chimeras. Only Valravn has been a pure descendent of an apostle. I don't think Assuming pure lineage is the right assumption to make, in the abstract.


One last thing, which I'm only now thinking of. When Demi is turned, they're held aloft in a glowing orb. Not using that as evidence, but it does make me think about vectors of infection. MC got injected, Michael got irradiated. That one guard got Electrocuted. We didn't see what happened to Alice, but idk...maybe the fairy bit her? Maybe he gravity zapped her? Demi got held up like. Do all monsters have different methods? Do apostles of similar monsters have similar methods? Was Jake held up in a glowing orb? Was he mind zapped? Did the 1st just fucking Bite him with its tentacle mouth (it had that, right?)

 

[Gtdead]

Not every monster is a mix of a bunch of Apostles, it most likely is a direct first born of the 1st or perhaps a second born, regardless literally the ONLY real ability is Perception, not Desire. We know Jake can issue commands so far as to make you think the person in front of you is your son, replace information, etc.

I've talked about this before. Authority does not change perception. It changes behavior.
For Jake's power to be about perception, he would have to alter how you see him. He can't do that.
His powers literally stop you from thinking the things that he doesn't want you to.

He hates that he was fat, so everyone can't remember that he was fat but people still can perceive that something changed about him.
He is afraid of MC finding out he is a s/h, whenever MC tries to reach that conclusion he gets a headache or he forgets what he was tlking about.
MC doesn't have trouble perceiving Jake for what he is. He has trouble acting on these thoughts because Jake doesn't allow him to.

When Jake commands MC to stay in prison, MC feels that (quote) "his desire to escape, vanished entirely". Since he can't act on his desire, his feelings change and he feels that prison is his home, till he breaks the command, becomes able to act on his desire to leave the prison, and he stops thinking that.

We also have strong indications that Jakes power would be able to affect objects.

Spoiler: Ella's quote

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Objects don't have perception. They do have behavior though.
__________

When Jake imprints Deryl, Deryl ends up falling in love with Ella. He feels that she is his world, that he wants to protect her and prove to her that he is the only one she needs.
This is, point for point, the exact behavior Clover has when Demi infects her by mistake.

Clover perception is not altered. When Demi tries to undo the effect, Clover knows what she has done and begs for Demi to not undo it, otherwise she won't be able to live with herself. If she had altered perception, then she wouldn't be able to say that. She would be confused, like a schizophrenic who commited a murder by mistake, because he perceived something different than reality.
__________

On Demi's possible connection to 4th and 8th.
Demi doesn't know what her target sees when looking at her illusion. This means that whatever she creates has to do with the individual. Of the Apostles that we know, only the 4th has the capacity to read an individual and act on it (4th reads MC's memories and turns into a chick to blow him).

If Demi knew what her target saw, then we could easily say that she made the target think that. But since this is obviously wrong, her trick is an actual visual illusion. Illusions are tricks of light so here's the connection to 8th (assuming ofcourse that 8th is light).

So she could have some bastardized power that is the combination of light and memory which creates these effects. My money would be on the 1st being the primary influence on her powers, but the other 2 are also plausible. In any case, "Desire" is the perfect way to explain her powers. She can turn into an object of desire, or force her targets to see the object of their desire.