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Vacillator

Newbie
Mar 25, 2018
77
304
All of what you said is ot even remotly close to what Deryl did
Or what mc , Alice , Miachel and shit heads like Jared did etc
You have to also feel for the poor guy and the scale of mental pressure that he was going through.
He did do horrible things. That's why he should stay alive to repent, Have a second chance and help others. He is now a prisoner to HERO which means he is kinda neturlized.
I agree that some characters reaching the height we tried so hard to reach in 1 arc is kinda painful Ig Miachel is built different, Ig Jake was learning directly from Ella, Ig Tiffa is having lots of help from the lab , BUT DERYL
What the actual hell man it hurts so much that he got to the same EVO level and power level as mc NO effort needed. I like his character but the way some of the sides just speed runbeing powerful while mc is trying daily super hard to get there is just a small bit snnoying the arc that kinda disliked was facing Deryl before he became a monster. Like dude barely been turned an he is keeping up with mc and Jake the son of the first? the most rare breed of super humans?

Well the only character that feels realy justified and is actually putting work for her powers is Alice. She started on a rough road trying hard and reaping ass to get to evo 2 shit u not she was turned before Deryl who's on evo3.5 according to him. Some people in the comments ask "Why are people so obssesed with evo 4 we just got to 3 and we have lot of room to grow"; Well cause it sucks to feel like you are falling behind on the power scaling scoop.
michael alice and mc all make sense imo, those 3 characters do so much shit every arc, deryl and all of his 37 clones needed a fat nerf, i almost forget he's even a character and he comes back doing circles around 2 insanely op characters for fun
 
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lorkdubo

Active Member
Aug 19, 2022
620
1,195
michael alice and mc all make sense imo, those 3 characters do so much shit every arc, deryl and all of his 37 clones needed a fat nerf, i almost forget he's even a character and he comes back doing circles around 2 insanely op characters for fun
Deryl does need a really fat nerf. Michael does deserve some power but i think if he stay underpowered it would be better for him.
 

Bleh21

Active Member
Dec 4, 2018
526
1,098
Smh if Jake was the mc then half of the female cast would've been enslaved and the other half would've been mindbroken too because they looked at you funny in most of you mf's playthroughs.

Jake was probably more responsible with his powers then 100% of the people playing the game

stop with the "how could he make wahmen show some tits" bs.
 
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Edvin

Active Member
Jun 3, 2017
739
1,363
Jake is more redeemable than most enemies the MC faces, the main one being that he has good intentions who explores the gray waters with the powers gifted by Ella.
Intentions are irrelevant here. He could be the nicest person in town and I'd still kill him.

A man who can control the minds of government and military officials, start an atomic war, and wipe out humanity before lunch simply cannot be allowed to live. What if he evolved and gained the ability to mind control even REALLY strong superhumans?

It's just too much of a risk to let him live...
 

KKStrider

Member
Mar 26, 2020
110
582
Intentions are irrelevant here. He could be the nicest person in town and I'd still kill him.

A man who can control the minds of government and military officials, start an atomic war, and wipe out humanity before lunch simply cannot be allowed to live. What if he evolved and gained the ability to mind control even REALLY strong superhumans?

It's just too much of a risk to let him live...
To be fair, the world of Superhuman has gone well beyond the point where nuclear warfare is an actual threat. Jake couldn't have done jack with those nukes, unless I'm guessing they were launched somewhere in-sector or he had permission from someone in another sector not to have them intercepted. The MC theorises he was going to use them on Ella, for all the good it'd have done him. We've seen from her performance at the Battle of Diamonds that she'd have walked off a nuke like it wasn't even there. The explosion wouldn't have done anything and the radiation probably would have just been annoying to her at her level of mastery over her Body trait. Would it have been bad, yes. Would it have ended humanity? He couldn't even if he wanted to, and if the MC who's canonically a bit of a dumbass knows that then so does he. And that's assuming he'd even have the will to drop a nuke in a populated area or anywhere near himself.

And unless Jake's hitting without outside assistance level 5 and finds a way to massively amplify his rate of power growth, he couldn't pull off mind control of stronger Superhumans. Subtle suggestions for things you were already doing will work on higher levels, direct commands that conflict with your desires not so much, as shown when he tried to order the MC only for his superior amounts of power to cause him to no-sell his control and when it was pointed out to Lexi that the tour wasn't supposed to go to to restricted areas. The man would have been wiped out before he even knew what happened if someone like Malik or Bernhardt cared enough about him to do it, let alone someone like Zack or Deus.

Granted, he had a shot at being the most busted thing on the planet and to manifest a power called Order at one point according to Aglaecwif, with Ella noting he'd inherited both Authority and Power, but had only manifested Authority due to him being soft and weak-willed in comparison to the MC. Mindset is important, and Jake's just not a natural killer. He became a lesser threat and will probably never again be on an actual fully manifested dual trait user like the MC's level as soon as he partially botched his second evolution. Even at level 2, he couldn't hold the level 1 Deryl under his control for too long.

I'd still have killed him just for the Amber and Liz thing, let alone the Jess thing, but considering Deryl is a friend of the MC's despite everything in their past, present and future you can absolutely forgive and spare Jake should you feel like it without it being seen as out of character. The MC seems to be more of a Chaotic Neutral type by default, not particularly caring about traditional morality and just doing what he feels like, even if he's pure and moral it doesn't stop him from dealing with budding supervillainess Tiffany or always canonically at least befriending the bloodthirsty criminal duo of Michael and Alice.

The world likes to run in circles it seems. At least it means the game isn't losing viewership anytime soon since this argument's revival usually means new people have come along.
 

ffive

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 19, 2022
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What if he evolved and gained the ability to mind control even REALLY strong superhumans?

It's just too much of a risk to let him live...
Dumb argument. What if your MC evolves to the point where he can kill even REALLY strong superhumans and becomes unstoppable force capable of wiping out the humanity? Too much of a risk to let him live, either? What about the already existing level 5 superhumans who are just as much of the threat?
 

Edvin

Active Member
Jun 3, 2017
739
1,363
Dumb argument. What if your MC evolves to the point where he can kill even REALLY strong superhumans and becomes unstoppable force capable of wiping out the humanity? Too much of a risk to let him live, either? What about the already existing level 5 superhumans who are just as much of the threat?
You don't see the bigger picture.
No matter how strong an individual is, he is not invincible.

There are only a few individuals who have extremely strong regenerative abilities and all others can be killed by conventional methods. The venom of the jellyfish was strong enough to cripple even a regeneration master like Ella for a while, and at that time she was already in the fourth stage of evolution. A strong dose of powerful poison can pacify or kill most Superhumans. I also think that few Superhumans would survive a direct hit to the head with a high caliber. Just because an MC can withstand direct fire from dozens of automatic weapons doesn't mean the same thing wouldn't kill 90% of other Superhumans. In the mall, you can get a "Game over" after detonating a few grenades because you're in small form and don't have your armor. You are not immune to human weapons and neither are other Superhumans. Even the very tough Oscar was practically defeated using ordinary human weapons.

But Jake, Jake is someone who can beat you without even having to fight you. Most people have someone they care about. Even if he can't control you, he can control your family and friends. And thus force you to do what he says. And even at the second stage of evolution, Jake was able to influence people at the fourth stage. I think at fifth stage he might be able to fully control other fifth stage Superhumans as well. At second stage of evolution, he was able to almost dominate the human world. At fifth stage of evolution, he could probably do the same with the world of Superhumans.

It is relevant if he is good, if he has ambitions for something like this or if he has already learned his lesson.
Even if the risk is small, it is not non-existent. And even the very small risk that someone will be taking over the world is too big a risk for me.
 

ffive

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 19, 2022
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You don't see the bigger picture.
I'd argue the bigger picture is actually the opposite of what you advocate -- you're not able to view beyond the person being a potential threat and consider a scenario where their "good intentions" make them a defense against similarly powerful, actual threat that is hostile.

It's the Batman vs Superman where Batman is too scared of Superman "because he might be a threat" to "let him live", only to realize in the next movie he and the entire planet are fucked without that potential threat he's had his hand in killing.
 

Krytax123

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2022
1,861
3,965
You don't see the bigger picture.
No matter how strong an individual is, he is not invincible.

There are only a few individuals who have extremely strong regenerative abilities and all others can be killed by conventional methods. The venom of the jellyfish was strong enough to cripple even a regeneration master like Ella for a while, and at that time she was already in the fourth stage of evolution. A strong dose of powerful poison can pacify or kill most Superhumans. I also think that few Superhumans would survive a direct hit to the head with a high caliber. Just because an MC can withstand direct fire from dozens of automatic weapons doesn't mean the same thing wouldn't kill 90% of other Superhumans. In the mall, you can get a "Game over" after detonating a few grenades because you're in small form and don't have your armor. You are not immune to human weapons and neither are other Superhumans. Even the very tough Oscar was practically defeated using ordinary human weapons.

But Jake, Jake is someone who can beat you without even having to fight you. Most people have someone they care about. Even if he can't control you, he can control your family and friends. And thus force you to do what he says. And even at the second stage of evolution, Jake was able to influence people at the fourth stage. I think at fifth stage he might be able to fully control other fifth stage Superhumans as well. At second stage of evolution, he was able to almost dominate the human world. At fifth stage of evolution, he could probably do the same with the world of Superhumans.

It is relevant if he is good, if he has ambitions for something like this or if he has already learned his lesson.
Even if the risk is small, it is not non-existent. And even the very small risk that someone will be taking over the world is too big a risk for me.
Even if it would 100% secured somehow that he the bestest goodest puppy-hearted hero alive, theres always the possibility of Jake being blackmailed (again) into doing really really bad shit.
 

Snugglepuff

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 27, 2017
7,657
8,217
It's the Batman vs Superman where Batman is too scared of Superman "because he might be a threat" to "let him live", only to realize in the next movie he and the entire planet are fucked without that potential threat he's had his hand in killing.
Yeah... no.
The only reason that plotline managed to plod along in some sort of semblance of working at all, was by both of them becoming monumentally moronic for no reason beyond Zack Snyder's hardon for Frank Miller comics. Even in the comic it's inspired by, their fight made sense and had completely different motivations which had zero to do with either of them wanting to kill the other at all.
Futhermore, he basically had no hand in killing Superman in that movie. That was entirely Lex Luthor and Kryptonian magical plot device goo with Zod's body and Luthor's own DNA contribution (Doomsday) and another part of The Dark Knight Returns (radiation poisoning from detonation of the nuclear missile).


If you two really want to get into "the greater threat", go look at the Captains in H.E.R.O.
For the most part, they're just a couple of excuses away from moving to declare themselves and H.E.R.O. as the new rulers of the world. They're close enough to it as it is.
That's not saying S.I.N. is any better, they're just further from the reigns of power than H.E.R.O. currently are.
 

Edvin

Active Member
Jun 3, 2017
739
1,363
I'd argue the bigger picture is actually the opposite of what you advocate -- you're not able to view beyond the person being a potential threat and consider a scenario where their "good intentions" make them a defense against similarly powerful, actual threat that is hostile.
So you're willing to let him live because (assuming he's willing to help you at all) you could use his help in the future?
I'm sorry, but I don't think that such a potential benefit is worth the risks associated with it.

Although we obviously don't agree on what is an acceptable risk, surely you must agree that sometimes the risk is too great. I personally consider Jake to be potentially the most dangerous Superhuman that has been introduced in the game so far.

It's the Batman vs Superman where Batman is too scared of Superman "because he might be a threat" to "let him live", only to realize in the next movie he and the entire planet are fucked without that potential threat he's had his hand in killing.
Go watch movie Injustice (2021)
There, exactly what Batman feared will happen and the whole world is fucked because no one can stop him.
:)


Anyway, movie Batman vs Superman was an extremely dumbed down version of a VERY good and VERY famous comix.
Try movies Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 1 a 2 (2012,2013).
Best DC movie I've seen and a MUCH better version of Batman vs Superman.
 

ffive

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 19, 2022
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The only reason that plotline managed to plod along in some sort of semblance of working at all, was by both of them becoming monumentally moronic for no reason beyond Zack Snyder's hardon for Frank Miller comics.
I'm not discussing details of what made things work or not in these movies, and how it's different from comic, these are very much a red herring. The point is that desired scenario (elimination of potential threat based on nothing but what-if) of a narrow-minded person can very well backfire in the long run because what's eliminated isn't an actual threat, but potential defense against one.

And playing a devil's advocate for a moment: "But Jake might take over the world!" and... so fucking what, if he did? What's exactly so horrible and unacceptable about this prospect, compared to the present alternative of the world already being ruled by a small group of superhuman psychopaths and sleazy politicians, who look only after their own interest? Because if anything, compared to them he looks like an improvement.
 

Bleh21

Active Member
Dec 4, 2018
526
1,098
>All top hero members could destroy the world.
>Deus easily kills Jake at level 5
>I'd argue the duplication guy is more of a threat then Jake. In the taking over the world sense
> MC could fight and defeat Jake while being at the same level. Absolutely nothing suggests he'd be able to control the super level 5's at H.E.R.O or even the MC.
 

Snugglepuff

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 27, 2017
7,657
8,217
And playing a devil's advocate for a moment: "But Jake might take over the world!" and... so fucking what, if he did? What's exactly so horrible and unacceptable about this prospect, compared to the present alternative of the world already being ruled by a small group of superhuman psychopaths and sleazy politicians, who look only after their own interest? Because if anything, compared to them he looks like an improvement.
That's the single worst case of Devil's Advocate I've seen to date.
He'd be far worse than them, because to get into that position he'd have to be able to either control them or eliminate them, which means doing the same to the more or less the entirety of H.E.R.O. and its political connections. Not to mention doing the same to S.I.N. as well, and literally anyone and everyone who opposes or takes exception to his actions.
Not one case of that would be bloodless, or without collateral damage on a scale that makes some of the monster attacks the public has witnessed seem like children quarelling in a sandpit.

After all that, whatever's left would still be worse off with him in a position of absolute power.
 

JuAqe

Newbie
Oct 14, 2020
50
136
I kill jake simply because he's wronged me, and I can use the power gained from assimilating him better than he can use his own power while alive. Don't have to worry about all the what ifs if hes just another voice in the Mc's noggin.
 

Edvin

Active Member
Jun 3, 2017
739
1,363
MC could fight and defeat Jake while being at the same level.
Because MC knew where Jack was and what he was doing.
Jack's strength is not in direct combat.

Absolutely nothing suggests he'd be able to control the super level 5's at H.E.R.O or even the MC.
Because you know EXACTLY in which direction his abilities will develop during the next 3 evolutions?
You are really good. I thought only WeirdWorld knew these things.
 

ItzSyther

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,735
10,794
Because MC knew where Jack was and what he was doing.
Jack's strength is not in direct combat.



Because you know EXACTLY in which direction his abilities will develop during the next 3 evolutions?
You are really good. I thought only WeirdWorld knew these things.
Jake is a fun bag of possibility and potential.

Shit if the player goes out of their way to have low power (for whatever reason) Jake can outright order the MC to listen to him (during the liz and amber shirtless scene) and tell em to go away.

We can presume many players will be able to overcome such a command just by having more power than Jake the fact it's possible for Jake to even get a command through is very telling that Jake 'could' control MC...well at least back then if given the time to properly establish dominance over em.

Jake if I remember right may have inherited 2 traits (at least thats what monster mommy and ella said) so he might resurge as a threat or an ally depending how the player did things (doubt it tho).
 

ffive

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 19, 2022
6,226
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That's the single worst case of Devil's Advocate I've seen to date.
He'd be far worse than them, because to get into that position he'd have to be able to either control them or eliminate them, which means doing the same to the more or less the entirety of H.E.R.O. and its political connections. Not to mention doing the same to S.I.N. as well, and literally anyone and everyone who opposes or takes exception to his actions.
Not one case of that would be bloodless, or without collateral damage on a scale that makes some of the monster attacks the public has witnessed seem like children quarelling in a sandpit.

After all that, whatever's left would still be worse off with him in a position of absolute power.
These are all nothing but hyperbolic presumptions and scaremongering. Mind control and/or elimination of few top people in charge doesn't necessarily need to be messy. Additionally, this is something people in charge have been doing already and for years if not decades, so what's exactly different about Jake doing it, that'd makes him doing the same thing so pearl-clutching worse?

You'll also need to elaborate on that last point. Why exactly do you think world with Jake in charge would be worse off than when controlled by people who run population-wide eugenics and consider you nothing but inferior cattle and tools, killed by thousands in their child games for supremacy? What do you think he'd even do that'd warrant this sort of statement?
 

Snugglepuff

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 27, 2017
7,657
8,217
These are all nothing but hyperbolic presumptions and scaremongering.
No, they're realistic projections based on common sense.

Mind control and/or elimination of few top people in charge doesn't necessarily need to be messy.
Doesn't need to, but would be.
There's no way in hell he could take over without having to eliminate a great many people, both super and normal humans.
He'd have to get enough evolutions under his belt in the hopes that it would push his mind control abilities to the point that he'd be incapable of repeating past mistakes... Which H.E.R.O. would not allow without the means to counter or terminate him with automated failsafes before he'd even get to that point, assuming he even manages to get more evolutions either naturally or H.E.R.O. injecting him. That's something they'd be incredibly reticent to do without already having safeguards in place, including a killswitch.

At that point, his only resort is to have been doing it for a long time and without advancing enough for H.E.R.O. to consider him a threat, with each and every single instance of mind control increasing the risk of discovery, and only at the lowest possible ranks of H.E.R.O. and aligned groups.
That makes it a numbers game on his part, which itself cannot work against any of the Captains, let alone most of their lieutenants, because they'd straight-up annihilate those under Jake's control before doing the same to him.

Remember, he'd be going up against powerful people who have vastly more experience in that kind of arena than him, knowing how to work the system far better than they'd ever let him get to.


Additionally, this is something people in charge have been doing already and for years if not decades, so what's exactly different about Jake doing it, that'd makes him doing the same thing so pearl-clutching worse?
"People in charge" have been using mind control to usurp positions of power for years, if not decades... Wtf??? :LOL:

Also "pearl clutching"... There's no shock or exaggerated display of shock from my end at the idea of Jake taking over. The "shock" is in anyone thinking he could or should, because it's moronic.

You'll also need to elaborate on that last point. Why exactly do you think world with Jake in charge would be worse off than when controlled by people who run population-wide eugenics and consider you nothing but inferior cattle and tools, killed by thousands in their child games for supremacy? What do you think he'd even do that'd warrant this sort of statement?
Realistic projection.
Getting to that point, assuming he somehow circumvents/avoids inevitable failsafes and killswitches, would have taken so long and he'd have had to do many things just as cruel, ruthless and underhanded as those he replaces. Not even the best intentioned person would be same at that point. Everything he'd done, he'd have to keep doing those things, and on a scale that would either have to be absolute control, or control of the ones left and giving orders, and all by some miracle never being exposed during his reign, for fear of being overthrown himself.
Speaking of fear of being overthrown, that's a realistic fear that he'd have to live with, be vigilant for, and actively ensure it can't happen by whatever means necessary. That just leads again to absolute control, which isn't doing better than the ones already in power, because it just leads to suffering, death, revolutions and more death.
 

TheOneZR

Newbie
May 4, 2023
31
71
you guys forget mc memory trait, even if jake lvl 5 could control all humanity and most of superhumans, mc lvl 5 could simply become a giant head in sky brainiac ship style and use memory trait in the entire planet to undo de mind control easy problem solved

Jake was never and never will be a treat anything he can do we can easily undo
Jake wins just if you miss some power points and not be ahead of the game, wicht is the cannon event mc is always after more power and he always will be the most powerful he was made to be broken as hell and feel weak as fuck but that weakness is just illusion we are on the road to be newborn god just wait
 
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